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Manziel
- Thread starter Wolf
- Start date
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Sweet.. now the interest in the #1 overall has picked up. If you want Manziel, you're going to have to jump St.Louis... come to Houston.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I do believe that Jeremiah is gullible enough to believe this and and wouldn't be surprised if this rumor came from the Houston Texans.
badboy
Hall of Fame
sort of makes my trade proposal look pretty good.
Have we talked about the leadership Manziel displayed during the game against Duke?
His team was getting whupped. Looked like nothing was going right for the fighting Aggies. Mike Evans was obviously frustrated & it showed.
Johnny wasn't perfect. He made as many mistakes as anyone else on the Aggie offense, if not more. I wouldn't doubt that the team gave up hope on the Johnny Magic & it looked to me like they had already resolved to lose that game.
But Johnny wasn't having it. The cameras showed him calming Mike Evans down, getting his mind back into the game. It didn't look like Evans wanted any part of it, he didn't want to talk to Johnny Manziel (maybe he blamed Manziel, who knows?), he turned away from him... but JFF did not give up.
Then we see Manziel talking to the whole team, telling them not to give up. Even though it looked like that game was over (I was ready to turn it off), the 2nd quarter started 21-3 Duke. It looked like Duke found the answer for Manziel & the Aggie defense looked like it had no clue (like they did all year long). But Manziel still believed they could win. Then the team believed they could win. Then they won.
I do not want to draft Johnny Manziel at 1-1, or 2-1. He's the third QB on my list. But I thought that was a very strong showing of Manziel's leadership ability. He got in a guys face, but he wasn't yelling or screaming. He wasn't acting a fool. Same with the rest of the team. He wasn't berating anyone. He wasn't blaming anyone. I'd love to have been able to hear what he was saying.
Like I said, I thought it was very strong. Knowing he was "messing up" just as much as anyone, he still convinced everyone not to give up.
I just don't remember talking about it much.
His team was getting whupped. Looked like nothing was going right for the fighting Aggies. Mike Evans was obviously frustrated & it showed.
Johnny wasn't perfect. He made as many mistakes as anyone else on the Aggie offense, if not more. I wouldn't doubt that the team gave up hope on the Johnny Magic & it looked to me like they had already resolved to lose that game.
But Johnny wasn't having it. The cameras showed him calming Mike Evans down, getting his mind back into the game. It didn't look like Evans wanted any part of it, he didn't want to talk to Johnny Manziel (maybe he blamed Manziel, who knows?), he turned away from him... but JFF did not give up.
Then we see Manziel talking to the whole team, telling them not to give up. Even though it looked like that game was over (I was ready to turn it off), the 2nd quarter started 21-3 Duke. It looked like Duke found the answer for Manziel & the Aggie defense looked like it had no clue (like they did all year long). But Manziel still believed they could win. Then the team believed they could win. Then they won.
I do not want to draft Johnny Manziel at 1-1, or 2-1. He's the third QB on my list. But I thought that was a very strong showing of Manziel's leadership ability. He got in a guys face, but he wasn't yelling or screaming. He wasn't acting a fool. Same with the rest of the team. He wasn't berating anyone. He wasn't blaming anyone. I'd love to have been able to hear what he was saying.
Like I said, I thought it was very strong. Knowing he was "messing up" just as much as anyone, he still convinced everyone not to give up.
I just don't remember talking about it much.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
I saw that. Now I'm no expert lip reader but I think he was saying don't lose this for me, I'm going to sign with Nike soon and I won't have you pu$$ies messing it up.
'tis the season to be trolling.
'tis the season to be trolling.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
I saw that. Now I'm no expert lip reader but I think he was saying don't lose this for me, I'm going to sign with Nike soon and I won't have you pu$$ies messing it up.
'tis the season to be trolling.
No, no, no. Wrong. He was telling them "I won't do any more autographs for you tools to sell if we lose this game."
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
No, no, no. Wrong. He was telling them "I won't do any more autographs for you tools to sell if we lose this game."
Hehehehe it's fun to pick on Johnny.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Great post. Can't imagine describing a guy with leadership abilities like this (reminiscent of all-time greats like Joe Cool, Brett Favre, Johnny U, and Tom Brady) combined with his athletic ability and proven accuracy, and then not want to draft him at either 1-1 or 2-1.
Like I have said before (and multiple people have admitted), add 2 inches and 20 lbs to him, and he is almost unanimously the pick at 1-1. Just seems foolish to me to allow a player like Manziel to slip past at 1-1 over 2 inches and 20 lbs.
Cam Newton wasn't a unanimous pick at 1-1
There are a lot of things to like about Johnny Manziel. That's why he's being considered as a 1st round draft pick. But there are things to not like about Johnny Manziel, that's why he's not a top 10 pick, imo. If I was choosing 8 or 9, I might reach for him, but on his own merit, I don't see him as a top 10 pick.
There are easily 10 other players that I'd rather have & I think comparable QBs are available later. They may not have shown that same level of leadership, or anything remotely electrifying on the field. But there are plenty of QBs in this draft that have shown me the basic requirements needed to win football games at the NFL level.
agproducer
Practice Squad
TK is saying what I've thought all along. There is not a bigger competitor at the QB position in this draft. The Duke game is just a glimpse at Manziel's career at A&M. He is a leader. The players have said there is no other QB they would rather follow. That says something about a man.
The shot of Johnny on the sideline near the end of the Duke game talking to not only the offense, but the defense -- saying "Take it from them. Take it from them." That was raw passion.
The Texans have NEVER had that on offense. On D, they have fire with Watt and Cushing, but for years, no one has been a vocal leader on offense. Schaub was milquetoast. Carr never had it (of course, he got his face kicked in with a horrible O-line). Andre has always been a lead-by-example type of guy.
OB has said he wants a guy who is a competitor. Manziel fits that. He is the best QB option in this draft. You can point to Teddy's short passing accuracy, but Manziel is quite comparable there. You can talk about Bortles prototypical NFL size, and Manziel doesn't match up there -- but I'd rather have Johnny's intangibles who kicked butt in a major NCAA conference over those guys anytime.
The shot of Johnny on the sideline near the end of the Duke game talking to not only the offense, but the defense -- saying "Take it from them. Take it from them." That was raw passion.
The Texans have NEVER had that on offense. On D, they have fire with Watt and Cushing, but for years, no one has been a vocal leader on offense. Schaub was milquetoast. Carr never had it (of course, he got his face kicked in with a horrible O-line). Andre has always been a lead-by-example type of guy.
OB has said he wants a guy who is a competitor. Manziel fits that. He is the best QB option in this draft. You can point to Teddy's short passing accuracy, but Manziel is quite comparable there. You can talk about Bortles prototypical NFL size, and Manziel doesn't match up there -- but I'd rather have Johnny's intangibles who kicked butt in a major NCAA conference over those guys anytime.
I'm sorry, I may have let you down if you'd have read a little further. His leadership is a strong suit for him. But he's got weaknesses as well. I'm just trying to tell it like it is.
Leadership, off the chart.
Drive & competitiveness, off the chart.
Plus agility. Plus arm. Plus vision (he sees the whole field). Playmaker.
Then there are the things we don't "know" & have to infer. Can he read a defense? If I'm saying Bison 2 roll (I just learned that the other day), does he know what I'm talking about? Does he know what soft corners are & how routes should adjust for that? Does he know how to set the protections? Like Gruden says... does he know how to solve problems at the LOS?
Johnny admitted he didn't have to do a lot of that at A&M, but he's been learning since the end of the season. Maybe he's shown that he has the ability, it's hard for me to say.
But there are other guys who've been doing it for a long time already; Bridgewater, McCarron, Murray, Garoppolo, Bortles, Mettenberger... and some of those guys have been doing it really well.
They've all got their strong points & weaknesses. Leadership is unquestionably a strength of JFF (imo).
agproducer
Practice Squad
TK-
No, there are those questions about Manziel, and I was writing my above post while you were posting about Cam and Johnny's weaknesses.
I agree. There are questions as to if Manziel can read a defense. McCarron and Mettenberger have done that. But, lest we forget, Manziel did learn under Sherman for his first year at A&M. He didn't see the field, but he is familiar with some of the terminology and the reads.
I think the Gruden camp was a little revealing about Manziel's knowledge. He so much as admitted that he knew the correct read, but tried to push it. that's the thing about Manziel. He knew the Aggie D was terrible last year, so he took a few more chances trying to push the ball down the field. He knew that A&M had to score a TD on almost every single drive to have a shot at winning. That's a lot of pressure on a guy.
I think Johnny has grown since he declared for the draft. The guy has succeeded at every level, but has also shown he can deal with adversity.
I believe he's the best pick and will alter the Texans franchise for the better.
I would rather Manziel come here and if he flops (which I don't think he will), then go elsewhere -- especially in the Texans' division, and beat their faces in for 10+ years.
No, there are those questions about Manziel, and I was writing my above post while you were posting about Cam and Johnny's weaknesses.
I agree. There are questions as to if Manziel can read a defense. McCarron and Mettenberger have done that. But, lest we forget, Manziel did learn under Sherman for his first year at A&M. He didn't see the field, but he is familiar with some of the terminology and the reads.
I think the Gruden camp was a little revealing about Manziel's knowledge. He so much as admitted that he knew the correct read, but tried to push it. that's the thing about Manziel. He knew the Aggie D was terrible last year, so he took a few more chances trying to push the ball down the field. He knew that A&M had to score a TD on almost every single drive to have a shot at winning. That's a lot of pressure on a guy.
I think Johnny has grown since he declared for the draft. The guy has succeeded at every level, but has also shown he can deal with adversity.
I believe he's the best pick and will alter the Texans franchise for the better.
I would rather Manziel come here and if he flops (which I don't think he will), then go elsewhere -- especially in the Texans' division, and beat their faces in for 10+ years.
agproducer
Practice Squad
JB-
That's not what I said at all. I look at Manziel flopping as the lesser of two evils. I think Manziel succeeding with a franchise in the Texans division as a whole lot worse than him coming to the Texans and not doing well.
I'd hate to have him kicking the Texans around for years, knowing we could have had our QB position locked up. I just don't think they can pass on him.
That's not what I said at all. I look at Manziel flopping as the lesser of two evils. I think Manziel succeeding with a franchise in the Texans division as a whole lot worse than him coming to the Texans and not doing well.
I'd hate to have him kicking the Texans around for years, knowing we could have had our QB position locked up. I just don't think they can pass on him.
agproducer
Practice Squad
The similarities to the 2006 draft are mindblowing. In that draft, I wanted Reggie Bush. When healthy, he is still a gamechanger and playmaker.
Mario worked out great for the Texans, but I don't think he was the dominating force they hoped he'd be. He's been a very good DE, but I think Mario disappeared a lot when the Texans needed him most.
I worry that will be the same if the Texans take Clowney.
Mario worked out great for the Texans, but I don't think he was the dominating force they hoped he'd be. He's been a very good DE, but I think Mario disappeared a lot when the Texans needed him most.
I worry that will be the same if the Texans take Clowney.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Great post, and rep to you. You seem to have hit all of the major points. Almost all of the great ones at the QB position in the NFL have those very same intangibles that Johnny Manziel possesses. They don't get rattled when the going gets tough, they are ultimate competitors, and they know how and when to fire up their team. Add in Manziel's athleticism, arm strength, and accuracy, and it is just plain foolish to pass on him.
You have been fair in your analysis from the get-go. I don't have a problem with your take. Your concerns about his ability to read a defense or solve problems at the LOS are well-founded. My response to that would be that Manziel has already proven to be a smart guy. All of the comparisons to Vince Young are just lazy and asinine. If Manziel puts in the time and effort, he will learn the QB position.
Can we put a ton of stock into the Wonderlic? Yes and no. Do you want your QB to get a VY score on it? No. But does a high Wonderlic mean a QB will be great? Of course not! But it does show the guy has some mental acumen. Combine the mental aspect with great athleticism, a good arm, and great accuracy, and you have a potential game changing QB.
I'm glad you mentioned the Gruden QB Camp. I was already sold on Manziel but after watching that, it was the icing on the cake for me. Plus, Gruden seemed VERY impressed by Manziel.
So many posters when evaluating Manziel fail to recognize the porous defense Manziel was playing with. He literally had to attempt to score a TD every single drive. There was good reason for him to not take the sure thing and attempt to force it down the field. And guess what? A whole bunch of times those passes were successful.
Coach him up, get him on a team with a good defense, and teach him to stop always trying to make the homerun play (something Gruden touched on A LOT with his focus on checkdowns), and this is a QB that could change the Texans fortunes. It will devastate me if we pass on him, and he ends up tearing it up in the league. But as I have already stated, I will root for Johnny Football no matter where he ends up (except Nashville...).
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Mario is the absolute ceiling for Jadeveon Clowney.
But you're right. It is somewhat similar to 2006. Only there is no Vince Young in this case. VY was an idiot. Plain and simple. All the athletic talent in the world, and none of the mental acumen necessary in an NFL QB. Perhaps Manziel is the Reggie Bush and Clowney is Mario. And if it had only been Reggie Bush and Mario in the 2006 draft, I think most posters would have rather had Reggie (although in hindsight Mario turned out to be a better pick, at least for the first few years).
agproducer
Practice Squad
I will also root for Johnny wherever he goes, except Nashville or Jacksonville. I want him to succeed, and I think he will tear it up. I just want him to do it for the Texans.
Agreed
agproducer
Practice Squad
No, I'm a huge Texans fan. They are my favorite team of all sports.
For me it is Texans>Aggies>Astros>Rockets>Dynamo.
For me it is Texans>Aggies>Astros>Rockets>Dynamo.
bah007
Hall of Fame
This leadership thing sounds so much like Tebow it's scary.
I know a lot of you guys pushing for Manziel are Aggies (I know some aren't) and I think it's great that you're supporting your guy. But you sound exactly like the Texas fans when Vince came out and the SEC fans when Tebow came out.
I'm not saying Manziel is the same player as those two. I think he's better. But all of this talk is just so familiar. All of this "IT", "leader", and "competitor" stuff is great but it's not what counts. That stuff can make a good player great, and it can make a great player a legend, but it has nothing to do with the fundamental questions about Manziel's ability to transition his game to the NFL. Hundreds of guys with those three qualities never made it.
I know a lot of you guys pushing for Manziel are Aggies (I know some aren't) and I think it's great that you're supporting your guy. But you sound exactly like the Texas fans when Vince came out and the SEC fans when Tebow came out.
I'm not saying Manziel is the same player as those two. I think he's better. But all of this talk is just so familiar. All of this "IT", "leader", and "competitor" stuff is great but it's not what counts. That stuff can make a good player great, and it can make a great player a legend, but it has nothing to do with the fundamental questions about Manziel's ability to transition his game to the NFL. Hundreds of guys with those three qualities never made it.
agproducer
Practice Squad
I can see your Tebow opinion, but Manziel is no Tebow. The stats are comparable though. Manziel came close to matching Tebow's numbers in just two years.
In Tebow's 4 years at FLA
Passing: 661 cmp/995 att, 66.4% comp%, 9285 yds, 9.3 yds/att, 88 TD 16 INT (5300 yds were against SEC opponents -- 60% comp against Alabama)
Rushing: 2947 yds, 4.3. yds/att, 57 TD (1860 yds vs SEC opponents)
His lower completion percentages were against SEC opponents. Look at the splits.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tim-tebow-1/splits/
In Manziel's 2 yrs at A&M:
Passing: 595/863, 68.9%, 7820 yds, 9.1 y/att, 63 TD, 22 INT (4984 against SEC opponents. His completion percentage against SEC teams is close to 70% -- against Alabama 74%)
Rushing: 2169 yds, 6.3 y/att, 30 TD
Here are Johnny's splits:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/johnny-manziel-1/splits/
Tebow passed for over 3000 yards in a season just once. Both seasons at A&M, JFF passed for 3700+ yards. His completion percentage also improved year to year. Tebow's stayed stagnant. Tebow also had 200+ rushing attempts twice. JFF, once and that was 201 in 2012. Last year, he had 144 ATT.
Tebow was a good college QB. I think if he would have been given more time in Denver, he could have developed. But, I believe Manziel is light years ahead of Tebow. VY is also not quite a fair comparison. He didn't have nearly the passing stats as JFF. Here are VY's stats:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/vince-young-1.html
Just sayin'.
In Tebow's 4 years at FLA
Passing: 661 cmp/995 att, 66.4% comp%, 9285 yds, 9.3 yds/att, 88 TD 16 INT (5300 yds were against SEC opponents -- 60% comp against Alabama)
Rushing: 2947 yds, 4.3. yds/att, 57 TD (1860 yds vs SEC opponents)
His lower completion percentages were against SEC opponents. Look at the splits.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tim-tebow-1/splits/
In Manziel's 2 yrs at A&M:
Passing: 595/863, 68.9%, 7820 yds, 9.1 y/att, 63 TD, 22 INT (4984 against SEC opponents. His completion percentage against SEC teams is close to 70% -- against Alabama 74%)
Rushing: 2169 yds, 6.3 y/att, 30 TD
Here are Johnny's splits:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/johnny-manziel-1/splits/
Tebow passed for over 3000 yards in a season just once. Both seasons at A&M, JFF passed for 3700+ yards. His completion percentage also improved year to year. Tebow's stayed stagnant. Tebow also had 200+ rushing attempts twice. JFF, once and that was 201 in 2012. Last year, he had 144 ATT.
Tebow was a good college QB. I think if he would have been given more time in Denver, he could have developed. But, I believe Manziel is light years ahead of Tebow. VY is also not quite a fair comparison. He didn't have nearly the passing stats as JFF. Here are VY's stats:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/vince-young-1.html
Just sayin'.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I already said in my previous post that I think Manziel is better than those two guys so comparing the stats is a worthless exercise to me.
My biggest concern with Manziel has been laid out multiple times in this thread. I just don't see his game translating to the NFL. It's that simple for me. He's going down as an all time college great, but that doesn't guarantee success at the next level. I don't see the necessary skill set that the NFL requires, and no amount of it factor, leadership ability, and competitive drive is going to change that.
Well, I didn't bring it up to answer that question. That's a totally different question. For me, it's just part of the puzzle. Like size is part of the puzzle. Some people get bent out of shape because some of us do factor in size & level of competition.
Pieces of a complete picture, that's all I'm talking about.
Both agproducer & myself stated how we believe Johnny has done a lot of things right to make up for some things he did not get exposed to in college. He showed us how he's been working on his game since the season ended at his pro-day & on Gruden's football camp.
and unlike some I'm only saying Manziel is one of the QBs I'd be very happy to see this team acquire... and I don't want to see him taken with the #1 overall.
agproducer
Practice Squad
Unlike TK, I want the Texans to take 1.1 because I don't think he will be there after Jax or Cle. I think if you like him, you take him.
I'm not sold on Bortles. I'd be satisfied with TB later in the first. I question the competition they've played.
If the Texans took Clowney, then traded him for picks, that could work too. But, I think JFF is the way to go.
I'm not sold on Bortles. I'd be satisfied with TB later in the first. I question the competition they've played.
If the Texans took Clowney, then traded him for picks, that could work too. But, I think JFF is the way to go.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
What is scary about Tebow's leadership? That was the only plus/elite quality about him. I hope every QB that played for my team could at least have half the leadership qualities that Tebow had.. The problem with him was he just couldn't throw the ball.. But he had everything you wanted as far as being a leader goes.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
I understand why you guys think this is so much like 2006 but when you make statements like the bold, it kind of makes your comparison a bit stupid to be honest.
And by the way, I don't see a ton of Aggie fans coming out saying they are going to quit rooting for the Texans if they don't take him. If you'll remember, over half of Reliant Stadium was wearing Vince gear when he came to play the Texans that first time, but I don't hear a lot of posters on here saying that. And in fact, the two that have indicated recently that they WOULD root for him wherever he went (myself and agproducer) BOTH made the statement that we would root for him EXCEPT if he went to Tennessee.
You see, there is nothing that can ever be compared to the Vince situation. Watching the entire stadium erupt when Vince Young scrambled for that touchdown to win the game while playing for OUR FORMER TEAM was one of the most painful things to ever witness as a Texans fan. Had it been nearly any other team in the NFL, it wouldn't have hurt quite so much. But he did it for our bitter rival, Bud's Butt Boys, the Tennessee Titans.
Continue to compare this to the VY deal if you want to, but I think you are dead wrong. Not to mention, is it always bad to root for the local guy? Think if Earl Campbell came out in this day and age. Would it be just like 2006 if everyone wanted the local guy that can tote the rock?
There has been more than enough level-headed talk in this thread. Calling it just like 2006 is just lazy.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I know where you're coming from. I have no issue with his intangibles being brought up. It is part of the package you get if you draft him. And his intangibles are off the chart. I just don't want people to get ahead of themselves and start putting the intangibles ahead of the tangibles when we're grading prospects.
bah007
Hall of Fame
You misunderstand.
I have no issue with either player's leadership. I just want to caution people that it is dangerous to project a prospect based on his intangible abilities.
Tebow and Young both had all three of those characteristics in college. They were drafted too high because of it, and they were busts because neither players' skills translated to the NFL.
bah007
Hall of Fame
You are certainly free to think so, but I'm not sure you even understand the point I'm making.
I never insinuated anything of the sort so I'm not sure where this rant is coming from.
We seem to be on different pages. I never said anything about this being like 2006. Did you read my post?
I'm talking about projecting QBs to the next level based on their intangibles instead of based on their tangible ability.
I'm sold on Johnny at 1.1 as well. Funny because if you asked me this on Superbowl Sunday, I'd have said you're nuts if you think Johnny is 1.1 material. I think he will make it past Jacksonville. Their GM comes from a background that seems to favor your more traditional pocket passers. Plus Caldwell and their current coach, Gus Bradley, are very much high character guys. As much as people believe Khan will kick down the door and tell them to draft Manziel, I don't see it happening. Caldwell seems like the type of dude who told Khan "I'll be your general manager, but I'm not drafting Manziel." Khan still hired him.
The Browns scare me. Kyle Shanahan really had a lot of success with RGIII and I bet he will try to recreate that with Manziel. And while Khan might be willing to take a backseat to his staff, I doubt Jimmy Haslam gives a damn what anyone says. It's no secret how unstable that organization is. If Haslam wants Manziel, he's going to get Manziel. And I fear he wants Manziel...
bah007
Hall of Fame
Just for argument's sake, if Manziel were to reach his ultimate potential, and he wasn't on the Texans, wouldn't the Browns be the best place for that to happen (for us)? The way that franchise is run, they don't seem like they would ever be a serious championship threat, even with a great QB.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
It was based on when you said this in post 3478:
Maybe I'm crazy, but it sure sounded an awful a lot like you were comparing Aggie fans of Manziel with 2006 Texas fans of Vince Young.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
No. If he reaches his ultimate potential, it would suck for the rest of the league. The Browns have consistently had some pretty decent defenses. They also have a couple of pretty good pass catchers in Josh Gordon, Greg Little, and Jordan Cameron. Easily, their biggest issue is being snake bit in their ability to find a competent QB. If they do that, Cleveland could eventually escape the cellar.
Texian
Hall of Fame
It was based on when you said this in post 3478:
Maybe I'm crazy, but it sure sounded an awful a lot like you were comparing Aggie fans of Manziel with 2006 Texas fans of Vince Young.
They almost got Griffin killed.
The biggest thing was the decision to keep playing him, but all those planed runs did not help RG3. He's taller than Manziel, but still on the thin side, not really built to take a beating. I'm not saying they shouldn't run the ball with Griffin, like you said it helped them to a lot of early success.
But Manziel... no. Anyone who calls a designed run, or a zone read should be drawn & quartered with a spoon. If they can't find a way to be productive on offense without calling for Johnny to cross the LOS, then he's not ready & they're not ready.
That's why I chose the word "try."
In all likelihood, he should / may opt to use Manziel like how the Texans used Schaub in his early tenure. Of course, Schaub's mobility was a bit different pre-injury, but... you know...The Griffin stuff isn't quite fair though because RGIII does put a lot of those hits on himself.
When you put it like that, very dangerous offense there. Plus they do have an offensive line that is very capable of keeping Manziel safe. Hey, maybe that means they would eventually give us Hoyer.
bah007
Hall of Fame
It was based on when you said this in post 3478:
Maybe I'm crazy, but it sure sounded an awful a lot like you were comparing Aggie fans of Manziel with 2006 Texas fans of Vince Young.
Nope.
Comparing the projection of Manziel to the NFL based on his intangibles to the projection of Young and Tebow based on their intangibles.
In your rush to defend the Aggie faithful from being compared to the Vince Young worshippers (which I do understand) you focused on only one sentence instead of the entire post.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
That's why I chose the word "try."
The Griffin stuff isn't quite fair though because RGIII does put a lot of those hits on himself.
I have seen nothing that leads me to believe that Manziel will not revert to his natural detrimental tendencies, ala Vick, Tebow, RGIII and VY. Just because you may have seen a seemingly greatly improved choreographed under-center pocket passing ballet on his Pro Day, when a herd of rushing fierce bulls muck up the situation, expect the call of the wild to always rear its ugly head.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Well if a herd of rushing fierce bulls muck up the situation, I hope whomever is our QB runs like hell. lol Hopefully our new Oline will reduce greatly chance of that occurring.
I have seen nothing that leads me to believe that Manziel will not revert to his natural detrimental tendencies, ala Vick, Tebow, RGIII and VY. Just because you may have seen a seemingly greatly improved choreographed under-center pocket passing ballet on his Pro Day, when a herd of rushing fierce bulls muck up the situation, expect the call of the wild to always rear its ugly head.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Well to be honest with you, I kind of used your post as a launching point to give another perspective. I recognize there are TONS of people that view the situation like you do, but even more specifically to 2006 and VY, and so I used your post to express my reasons for why I don't believe it is accurate to compare this 100% to 2006. There are similarities but aside from them both being fast and athletic, I don't really see THAT many similarities between him and VY.
But to address the main idea of the post in question, I hold the same views about that as I do about comparing him to VY: it's lazy reporting. I think you would be willing to admit that Manziel is a much more accomplished passer than either VY or Tebow, has a stronger arm, and shows more potential of being a successful pocket passer than either of those guys. Yeah, he better learn to pass in the pocket, but surely you can see he has a ton more potential of becoming a successful passer than either Young (dumb) or Tebow (horribly inaccurate).
Like I've said before. If we hold out for the next sure thing (Andrew Luck), we are going to be waiting a LONG time. Those guys just don't come along very often. Manziel's cons are size, standing up in the pocket, forcing passes trying to hit the homerun, and relying on his legs too much. His pros are his instincts, accuracy, arm strength, intelligence, leadership, and athleticism. I know you probably disagree, but I would take the risk of his cons to get a shot at a player with his pros.
I have seen nothing that leads me to believe that Manziel will not revert to his natural detrimental tendencies, ala Vick, Tebow, RGIII and VY. Just because you may have seen a seemingly greatly improved choreographed under-center pocket passing ballet on his Pro Day, when a herd of rushing fierce bulls muck up the situation, expect the call of the wild to always rear its ugly head.
Last I checked, Vick had a pretty dang good career considering he missed two full years in the prime of his career and still made it to 4 pro bowls, took his team to a conference championship game (something the Texans have never been to in our entire existence), and ran for more yards than any QB in NFL history. RGIII has had one very good NFL season and one average, injury plagued season. Jury is still out on what he will become. Vince Young showed real promise going to the Pro Bowl his rookie year, taking the Titans to the postseason two out of his first three years, and seeming to improve in his passing every season. Eventually, the bottom dropped out with his fragile psyche, and VY became a hasbeen. Of your list, Tebow was the only one that was totally a bust (but did have a couple of pretty impressive playoff wins), and most anyone could see he wouldn't be a successful NFL QB, because he was one of the most inaccurate QBs to ever step foot on an NFL field.
So in summary, it's too early to call Griffin a never was, Vick had a pretty decent career that could have been even better if he wasn't a dumb ass fighting dogs, VY looked to show real promise but his mental state never allowed him to reach his full potential, and Tebow just couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. Arguably, three out of those four players would compete for the spot of greatest Texans QB of all-time. If I'm the Texans, I'd take my chances with Manziel.
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