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Manning released

He's on 610 right now.

Couldn't come to a common ground.

Was about guarantees.

Has nothing but love for Texans.

Liked OB from the brief time he spent with him.

OB wanted him to stay, but understood that he had to do what he felt was best for him.

Says he's still rehabbing his injury. If season started today would not be able to go. about 6-8 weeks away he feels.

He and Rick have a personal relationship, and it was no hard feeling from either end. They respect each other and realize business is business.

He doesn't seem too thrilled about the timing of this release.

Says he understood that he likely wouldn't see the end of this contract. Guys want the money up front and not back loaded again no hard feelings. Just business.

Will look back at his Texans experience with fondness. Was tremendous. Fans are tremendous. Wishes he could take the fans with him wherever he ends up. Still believes in the organization as a whole. Believes they will do what's best for the team.
 
CretorFrigg said:
This might be an unpopular opinion but you don't throw all of your money on one player, even if it is JJ. This is a TEAM game, after all. There are 10 other players on the field, each playing an important role.
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You must have slept through the year the Colts didn't have Manning. ONE player CAN make a huge difference


Your man... Pots and pans
 
PHILLYTEXANFAN said:
You must have slept through the year the Colts didn't have Manning. ONE player CAN make a huge difference


Your man... Pots and pans
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No need to leave Reliant. Healthy Schaub got to the point where he was worth 10-12 wins; gimpy (bad foot) Schaub couldn't get us more than two.
 
How does manning being cut equate to rebuilding? His age,injuries,and cap # is why he was cut. Manninng is solid,but you can find solid for a lot cheaper than 6m. I like the philosophy of starter,backup,or camp body and of course money adds into it.

Cleamons and DJ are starters,lewis and keo are st and backups. I'm looking at a combo type of guy for the 3 safety look. Keith McGill in the 3rd fits a lot. Not only because he's both,but JJo is older and needs to play better and jackson is a fa after the season.
 
leebigeztx said:
How does manning being cut equate to rebuilding? His age,injuries,and cap # is why he was cut. Manninng is solid,but you can find solid for a lot cheaper than 6m. I like the philosophy of starter,backup,or camp body and of course money adds into it.

Cleamons and DJ are starters,lewis and keo are st and backups. I'm looking at a combo type of guy for the 3 safety look. Keith McGill in the 3rd fits a lot. Not only because he's both,but JJo is older and needs to play better and jackson is a fa after the season.
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Perhaps. But I'd be much less than surprised to see a deal made on a new contract. I'm leaning new deal.
 
SAMURAITEXAN said:
The way Texans operates recently reminds me of how Patriots FO negotiate with their players. The Patriots seems to me pay good money for a key/core quality player only. I think this is the way to go so we won't be tied up with cap situation in the future. Besides, JJ Watt's contract is coming up next season.
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Agree with you here. Belichick "South"..
 
More cutting contracts that didn't make sense this year. The only contract that is moderately Meh has been Graham's.

I'm with Herv on it feels like there's a plan in place and it's starting with trimming bad contracts. Question will be can this staff actually coach players up and do a better job identifying talent.
 
rebuilding mode in full efeect WHOZ NEXT .... J JOE ..???? CRICK LOL how about Chris myers Kevin martin or Andre Johnson ...???? LOL
 
leebigeztx said:
How does manning being cut equate to rebuilding? His age,injuries,and cap # is why he was cut. Manninng is solid,but you can find solid for a lot cheaper than 6m. I like the philosophy of starter,backup,or camp body and of course money adds into it.

Cleamons and DJ are starters,lewis and keo are st and backups. I'm looking at a combo type of guy for the 3 safety look. Keith McGill in the 3rd fits a lot. Not only because he's both,but JJo is older and needs to play better and jackson is a fa after the season.
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OB also said Swearinger will start at SS and FS will be a competition between Lewis and Clemons. And manning getting cut is just part of it. Look at all the starters that are gone. It's a rebuilding like it or not.
 
It looks like the Texans were not straightforward with their description of Manning's injury. At first they report a stress fracture of the fibula and later reported a significant knee hyperextension injury. Keeing in mind the the injury occurred mid October of last year, with Manning revealing that he had 6-8 still to go on his rehab before making on the field, I've been trying to put things together in my head. All sources, including Rotoworld, have continued to report that Manning was recovering from surgery fibula fracture surgery. An isolated fibula fracture, even a complete one, would require only 6-8 weeks total rehab. Manning previous had that type of injury and actually came back early after 5 weeks. Today, it's ~5 1/2 months since the injury. So either he had a complication from surgery........which the Texans never reported to have occurred or had more extensive injuries.

I found this isolated Tweet I never saw back at the very end of the year.:


‏@HoustonTexans RT @DeepSlant: Manning says he is 3 weeks ahead of schedule in his rehab. Hopes to be ready before OTAs even. #Texans

8:08 AM - 30 Dec 2013
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Then I went back and tried to get a still of when the injury occurred.


20131013-234612.jpg



It appears that with such a long rehab, injuries sustained in addition to the fibula fracture (which was likely the proximal segment that is attached to the lateral collateral ligament) would definitely have to have included surgery...........for a tear of the posterior cruciate ligament (this ligament is the "check" ligament that prevents forward bending of the knee) and most likely for the lateral collateral ligament/fibula fracture segment, and also for the lateral meniscus, possibly the medial meniscus. It would not be unusual for any combination of this injuries included direct knee cartilage damage.


news041403tt.gif




178.gif



A posterior cruciate tear alone that requires surgery requires a very long recovery. When muscle strength is adequate, light jogging only begins at ~6 months and full return to play is not atypically allowed until 9-12 months after surgery.

This could very well explain why such concern regarding what was originally reported as a "hairline fracture of the fibula."
 
PHILLYTEXANFAN said:
You must have slept through the year the Colts didn't have Manning. ONE player CAN make a huge difference


Your man... Pots and pans
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ObsiWan said:
No need to leave Reliant. Healthy Schaub got to the point where he was worth 10-12 wins; gimpy (bad foot) Schaub couldn't get us more than two.
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And neither of those two guys played DE. QB is that important of a position, not DE.

Obsi, if Schaub got us 2 with a gimpy foot, Watt couldn't get us one additional win. We lost how many games by 1 score? I'm not hating on Watt, by any means. Just pointing out that an elite QB is much more important than an elite DE. The whole defensive unit has to play at an elite level (not be all elite players, mind you) to have an impact like Seattle last year, the Ravens, Bears, Giants( LT era mostly), Steelers and Cowboys.

Heck, look at what Brady has accomplished with no name WR's for most of his career. Think what he could've done with a WR like AJ or Megatron for his whole career.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
It looks like the Texans were not straightforward with their description of Manning's injury. At first they report a stress fracture of the fibula and later reported a significant knee hyperextension injury. Keeing in mind the the injury occurred mid October of last year, with Manning revealing that he had 6-8 still to go on his rehab before making on the field, I've been trying to put things together in my head. All sources, including Rotoworld, have continued to report that Manning was recovering from surgery fibula fracture surgery. An isolated fibula fracture, even a complete one, would require only 6-8 weeks total rehab. Manning previous had that type of injury and actually came back early after 5 weeks. Today, it's ~5 1/2 months since the injury. So either he had a complication from surgery........which the Texans never reported to have occurred or had more extensive injuries.

I found this isolated Tweet I never saw back at the very end of the year.:





Then I went back and tried to get a still of when the injury occurred.


20131013-234612.jpg



It appears that with such a long rehab, injuries sustained in addition to the fibula fracture (which was likely the proximal segment that is attached to the lateral collateral ligament) would definitely have to have included surgery...........for a tear of the posterior cruciate ligament (this ligament is the "check" ligament that prevents forward bending of the knee) and most likely for the lateral collateral ligament/fibula fracture segment, and also for the lateral meniscus, possibly the medial meniscus. It would not be unusual for any combination of this injuries included direct knee cartilage damage.


news041403tt.gif




178.gif



A posterior cruciate tear alone that requires surgery requires a very long recovery. When muscle strength is adequate, light jogging only begins at ~6 months and full return to play is not atypically allowed until 9-12 months after surgery.

This could very well explain why such concern regarding what was originally reported as a "hairline fracture of the fibula."
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What are your thoughts on Manning finding a new team at his asking price? Reading your post, it sounds like the Texans weren't just being cheapskates. There appear to be legit questions regarding Manning's ability to come in and perform at a level commensurate with his original 2014 salary.

With this information, it looks like RS and OB made a good decision.
 
It bothers me that the most productive offseason worth of moves we've had, not counting draftees, was the J.Jo & Manning signings, and now we are letting one of them go....and it hasn't been that long either.

Having said that, it seems like the right move. Sometimes they gotta make tough calls. :toropalm:
 
DocBar said:
And neither of those two guys played DE. QB is that important of a position, not DE.



Obsi, if Schaub got us 2 with a gimpy foot, Watt couldn't get us one additional win. We lost how many games by 1 score? I'm not hating on Watt, by any means. Just pointing out that an elite QB is much more important than an elite DE. The whole defensive unit has to play at an elite level (not be all elite players, mind you) to have an impact like Seattle last year, the Ravens, Bears, Giants( LT era mostly), Steelers and Cowboys.



Heck, look at what Brady has accomplished with no name WR's for most of his career. Think what he could've done with a WR like AJ or Megatron for his whole career.
Click to expand...


What was the defenses average per game pre/post Cushing??


Your man... Pots and pans
 
PHILLYTEXANFAN said:
What was the defenses average per game pre/post Cushing??


Your man... Pots and pans
Click to expand...


Or how about this. Opposing offenses double team Watt a majority of snaps, creating opportunities for other guys on D, now if JJ would miss a game, how many offenses are gonna double team Crick, or Jamison, Hell how many double teamed Antonio


Your man... Pots and pans
 
DocBar said:
What are your thoughts on Manning finding a new team at his asking price? Reading your post, it sounds like the Texans weren't just being cheapskates. There appear to be legit questions regarding Manning's ability to come in and perform at a level commensurate with his original 2014 salary.

With this information, it looks like RS and OB made a good decision.
Click to expand...

I'd certainly feel that this season has potential for being very compromised. After that, it all depends what the exact extent of his injuries are, especially how much cartilage damage he sustained. It will be interesting if the Bear and Manning team up for good ole time...........but, I assure you (short of a couple of moron GMs out there), any offered contracts will be based very heavily of incentives.........and very lightly of guaranteed monies.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I'd certainly feel that this season has potential for being very compromised. After that, it all depends what the exact extent of his injuries are, especially how much cartilage damage he sustained. It will be interesting if the Bear and Manning team up for good ole time...........but, I assure you (short of a couple of moron GMs out there), any offered contracts will be based very heavily of incentives.........and very lightly of guaranteed monies.
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I was thinking more of a Tampa Bay reunion moreso than a Chicago one. Lovie Smith would be more likely to entertain taking a risk on Manning than a coaching staff that has no history with him. Unless I miss a Chicago connection...
 
PHILLYTEXANFAN said:
If they gave up more ypg and ppg, post injury, you don't think that could equate to a loss


Your man... Pots and pans
Click to expand...
I have yet to see an NFL victory awarded soley based on which team gained the most yards. There have been several SB winners that did poorly in the YPG stats but did well in the PPG stats.
I would bet a sizeable amount of $$ that there are significantly more SB winners that did better in the PPG stat than YPG stat than the opposite. Just my :twocents:
 
DocBar said:
I was thinking more of a Tampa Bay reunion moreso than a Chicago one. Lovie Smith would be more likely to entertain taking a risk on Manning than a coaching staff that has no history with him. Unless I miss a Chicago connection...
Click to expand...

You're right, TB with Smith would be a reasonable match. Just thought that 5 years in Chicago might also make for a home town discount.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
It looks like the Texans were not straightforward with their description of Manning's injury. At first they report a stress fracture of the fibula and later reported a significant knee hyperextension injury. Keeing in mind the the injury occurred mid October of last year, with Manning revealing that he had 6-8 still to go on his rehab before making on the field, I've been trying to put things together in my head. All sources, including Rotoworld, have continued to report that Manning was recovering from surgery fibula fracture surgery. An isolated fibula fracture, even a complete one, would require only 6-8 weeks total rehab. Manning previous had that type of injury and actually came back early after 5 weeks. Today, it's ~5 1/2 months since the injury. So either he had a complication from surgery........which the Texans never reported to have occurred or had more extensive injuries.

I found this isolated Tweet I never saw back at the very end of the year.:





Then I went back and tried to get a still of when the injury occurred.


20131013-234612.jpg



It appears that with such a long rehab, injuries sustained in addition to the fibula fracture (which was likely the proximal segment that is attached to the lateral collateral ligament) would definitely have to have included surgery...........for a tear of the posterior cruciate ligament (this ligament is the "check" ligament that prevents forward bending of the knee) and most likely for the lateral collateral ligament/fibula fracture segment, and also for the lateral meniscus, possibly the medial meniscus. It would not be unusual for any combination of this injuries included direct knee cartilage damage.


news041403tt.gif




178.gif



A posterior cruciate tear alone that requires surgery requires a very long recovery. When muscle strength is adequate, light jogging only begins at ~6 months and full return to play is not atypically allowed until 9-12 months after surgery.

This could very well explain why such concern regarding what was originally reported as a "hairline fracture of the fibula."
Click to expand...

Fantastic work as usual...thanks for the effort!
 
mussop said:
Look at all the starters that are gone. It's a rebuilding like it or not.
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This was a 2-14 team. It should be rebuilt. Out with the old, overpaid, underachievers. In with the young, hungry, overachievers (hopefully). This is how the NFL works.
 
leebigeztx said:
How does manning being cut equate to rebuilding?
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It does not equate.

But, it is part of the equation.

I guess it depends on how you define "rebuild". A new head coach, whole new staff, completely new schemes on both sides of the ball, new QB, lots of other new starters...I'd say this is pretty obvious of a rebuild. Expecting playoffs in 2014 is setting yourself up for disappointment.
 
Double Barrel said:
It does not equate.

But, it is part of the equation.

I guess it depends on how you define "rebuild". A new head coach, whole new staff, completely new schemes on both sides of the ball, new QB, lots of other new starters...I'd say this is pretty obvious of a rebuild. Expecting playoffs in 2014 is setting yourself up for disappointment.
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Yeah. I expect a Super Bowl and will settle for nothing less.

I believe in BOB
 
Double Barrel said:
It does not equate.

But, it is part of the equation.

I guess it depends on how you define "rebuild". A new head coach, whole new staff, completely new schemes on both sides of the ball, new QB, lots of other new starters...I'd say this is pretty obvious of a rebuild. Expecting playoffs in 2014 is setting yourself up for disappointment.
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I don't think the Manning release is a rebuild move. I think this is the type of move we will see in the future. We signed Lewis for depth and Clemons to be a starter. Manning was in the last year of his deal and coming off a pretty significant injury for someone of his age. It looks like a simple replacement to me. In the end, we probably got stronger at safety. We have more depth (Lewis) and we replaced a starter with another player that is younger, cheaper, and similar in skill level.

That's not to say that we aren't rebuilding, I just don't see this move as a rebuilding move.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I don't think the Manning release is a rebuild move. I think this is the type of move we will see in the future. We signed Lewis for depth and Clemons to be a starter. Manning was in the last year of his deal and coming off a pretty significant injury for someone of his age. It looks like a simple replacement to me. In the end, we probably got stronger at safety. We have more depth (Lewis) and we replaced a starter with another player that is younger, cheaper, and similar in skill level.

That's not to say that we aren't rebuilding, I just don't see this move as a rebuilding move.
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It is an understandable perspective.

My take is not specific that cutting Manning reveals a rebuild. But rather he's yet another veteran leader being purged. The purge itself it indicative of a rebuild, not specific players in and of themselves.

Letting Manning go had as much to do with money as anything else according to all news reports.

Think about all the starters that are now gone. This is not a Kansas City Chiefs 2013 situation. O'Brien & Company are clearly looking long term, both regarding cap space and players that fit his schemes on both sides of the ball.

And I'm okay with that, as it is expected when a team gets a new head coach. Rare is the case where all a team needs is a new head coach after a 2-14 season. Like Lucky said, this team should be torn down and rebuilt after last season.
 
TexansSeminole said:
That's not to say that we aren't rebuilding, I just don't see this move as a rebuilding move.
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I guess it depends on what we consider rebuilding. I'll have to look & see how many starters we replaced last season. Wade Smith though... I thought we should have dumped him last year, I don't understand letting him play out his contract for his level of play the previous year. I surely did not expect him to bounce back.

But I don't consider it a rebuild if you don't have to change out your core players. Matt, OD, & DMann... I thought they were part of that core. HC change as well..... yup it's a rebuild.

I still think we're going to be competitive next season though. I believe we have a stronger core than most of the teams on our schedule. I don't think we'll be in the division hunt come December, but we'll be a strong contender for a Wild Card.
 
Why is everyone so obsessed with what we're calling it? This has spilled over into multiple threads now. I don't care what it is, as long as it works and sets this franchise up with a plan for long term success.
 
bah007 said:
Why is everyone so obsessed with what we're calling it? This has spilled over into multiple threads now. I don't care what it is, as long as it works and sets this franchise up with a plan for long term success.
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It's a new low point even for off-seasons. Next up we'll debate whether elephants are huge or enormous.
 
bah007 said:
Why is everyone so obsessed with what we're calling it? This has spilled over into multiple threads now. I don't care what it is, as long as it works and sets this franchise up with a plan for long term success.
Click to expand...

Rebuild to me says we don't expect to win much. I refuse to believe that.
 
bah007 said:
Why is everyone so obsessed with what we're calling it? This has spilled over into multiple threads now. I don't care what it is, as long as it works and sets this franchise up with a plan for long term success.
Click to expand...

I thought about that after I commented. It's about on par with the "who is most responsible for selling the play action" conversation.
 
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