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TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
Putting you on ignore lasted less than a day since we have actual news!

I’m disappointed in team. Unless Gaine did something awful/non football related to lose his job. It’s one thing if they fired OB because a demonstrably better coach became available (The guy in NE, Reid, Carroll as examples).

But there is no such replacement clearly available at GM. Gaine had a vision for what he was building and though there were valid reasons to pan the inactivity this offseason his track record thus far (2018 draft haul without 1/2 picks) had earned him more leeway than a sudden firing.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Putting you on ignore lasted less than a day since we have actual news!

I’m disappointed in team. Unless Gaine did something awful/non football related to lose his job. It’s one thing if they fired OB because a demonstrably better coach became available (The guy in NE, Reid, Carroll as examples).

But there is no such replacement clearly available at GM. Gaine had a vision for what he was building and though there were valid reasons to pan the inactivity this offseason his track record thus far (2018 draft haul without 1/2 picks) had earned him more leeway than a sudden firing.
Agreed, but there are better guys out there.

McCloughan/Savage/Wolf/Cesario just to name a few.

Question is who would want to come to work for this dysfunctional franchise?
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
Agreed, but there are better guys out there.

McCloughan/Savage/Wolf/Cesario just to name a few.

Question is who would want to come to work for this dysfunctional franchise?
McGloughan has had time in the GM role but he’s got off field issues making him unreliable. Not demonstrably better (unless of course we find out Gaine had off field issue).

Rest haven’t been given opportunity to prove they are demonstrably better. That would be like firing OB for a hot shot coordinator who has never been a HC. May work out... may not.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
McGloughan has had time in the GM role but he’s got off field issues making him unreliable. Not demonstrably better (unless of course we find out Gaine had off field issue).

Rest haven’t been given opportunity to prove they are demonstrably better. That would be like firing OB for a hot shot coordinator who has never been a HC. May work out... may not.
Unreliable? He's built 2 championship quality teams, that's what I want down on Kirby. I really dont care what people do in their personal lives. I just care about the results on Sunday's. It's why they keep score.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
Unreliable? He's built 2 championship quality teams, that's what I want down on Kirby. I really dont care what people do in their personal lives. I just care about the results on Sunday's. It's why they keep score.
His 49er teams as GM were 7-9 and 8-8 then 6-10 the year after he was dismissed. They did turn around when Harbaugh arrived though in 2011.

Seahawks teams did great but he wasn’t GM. John Schneider is one of the best GMs in the league and unavailable for good reason.

When he was GM of Redskins they went 9-7 and 8-7-1 and after dismissal back to back 7-9 seasons.

Looks like you are a fan of mediocrity as long as they have some off field issue ;)
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
His 49er teams as GM were 7-9 and 8-8 then 6-10 the year after he was dismissed. They did turn around when Harbaugh arrived though in 2011.

Seahawks teams did great but he wasn’t GM. John Schneider is one of the best GMs in the league and unavailable for good reason.

When he was GM of Redskins they went 9-7 and 8-7-1 and after dismissal back to back 7-9 seasons.

Looks like you are a fan of mediocrity as long as they have some off field issue ;)
He was the driving force behind the Harbaugh teams. The guy that found the talent. McCloughan left, then Harbaugh in a lost power struggle to Ballke. That's when the 49ers fell off.

He was the guy that found most of the talent for the Seahawks championship team. He found Wilson for example.

He lost a power struggle to Allen and wasn't there long enough to implement his plan and Allen kept throwing in monkey wrenches. What have the Skins done since McCloughan left?
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
(2018 draft haul without 1/2 picks)
This is incorrect. He had the normal number of picks, 2 were just lower.

Unreliable? He's built 2 championship quality teams, that's what I want down on Kirby. I really dont care what people do in their personal lives. I just care about the results on Sunday's. It's why they keep score.
BS two ways. 1st he'll never be GM again. You're, most likely intentionally, setting a standard designed for the Texans to fail. Might as well say 'if the Texans were serious rather than cheap they'd buy Belichick from NE.'

2nd McCloughan didn't build either team. He was GM in San Fran for just 2 years and that ended with an 8-8 team that then went 6-10 3 years before they went to the SB. In Seattle he was 3rd man on the personnel totem pole. Yay he was a big Wilson advocate. One player is not a team.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
He was the driving force behind the Harbaugh teams. The guy that found the talent. McCloughan left, then Harbaugh in a lost power struggle to Ballke. That's when the 49ers fell off.

He was the guy that found most of the talent for the Seahawks championship team. He found Wilson for example.

He lost a power struggle to Allen and wasn't there long enough to implement his plan and Allen kept throwing in monkey wrenches. What have the Skins done since McCloughan left?
You can try to give him credit all you want to fit your narrative but I laid out pretty clearly he is undeserving of your lofty praise.

The 49ers had two full offseasons after he left to build Harbaugh’s teams.

He was not the GM of the Seahawks and they are still perennial contenders long after he left. If he was mainly responsible for Wilson and Legion of Boom selections he’d be the GM over there.

What did the Redskins do while he was there other than 9-7? Very Texans-esque sure but not a clear upgrade...
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
This is incorrect. He had the normal number of picks, 2 were just lower.



BS two ways. 1st he'll never be GM again. You're, most likely intentionally, setting a standard designed for the Texans to fail. Might as well say 'if the Texans were serious rather than cheap they'd buy Belichick from NE.'

2nd McCloughan didn't build either team. He was GM in San Fran for just 2 years and that ended with an 8-8 team that then went 6-10 3 years before they went to the SB. In Seattle he was 3rd man on the personnel totem pole. Yay he was a big Wilson advocate. One player is not a team.
Are you seriously going to say not having the 1/2 pick is a fine scenario to walk into? I know you love arguing semantics but c’mon man ‍♂
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Are you seriously going to say not having the 1/2 pick is a fine scenario to walk into? I know you love arguing semantics but c’mon man ‍♂
Absolutely 100% yes. Why didn't he have a #1? Because it was already on the field in the form of a rookie contract franchise QB. Most new GMs walk in needing a QB. So bottom line Gaine had a 3rd instead of a 2nd. Big fu@kin whoop. Not many new GMs walk into 2 time division winners with a franchise QB. Spare me the pity party over one round.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
Absolutely 100% yes. Why didn't he have a #1? Because it was already on the field in the form of a rookie contract franchise QB. Most new GMs walk in needing a QB. So bottom line Gaine had a 3rd instead of a 2nd. Big fu@kin whoop. Not many new GMs walk into 2 time division winners with a franchise QB. Spare me the pity party over one round.
2 rounds ;)
 

Max

Veteran
Can we all agree the Texans org is a clusterfvck?

Lovin me some Texans org.
Cal's putting his stamp on the team, no doubt. It's just too soon to get a sense of what type of owner he's going to be other than different than his dad. So far he's giving the impression (IMO) of impulsive and decisive to get a ring - you're the one person I would have expected to have approved of the move. I'm just hoping that he's only putting his stamp on the team and impulsiveness isn't his M.O.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Cal's putting his stamp on the team, no doubt. It's just too soon to get a sense of what type of owner he's going to be other than different than his dad. So far he's giving the impression (IMO) of impulsive and decisive to get a ring - you're the one person I would have expected to have approved of the move. I'm just hoping that he's only putting his stamp on the team and impulsiveness isn't his M.O.
I liked Gaine,

I think Cletus didn't let Gaine make some of the moves he wanted to make this offseason.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You can try to give him credit all you want to fit your narrative but I laid out pretty clearly he is undeserving of your lofty praise.

The 49ers had two full offseasons after he left to build Harbaugh’s teams.

He was not the GM of the Seahawks and they are still perennial contenders long after he left. If he was mainly responsible for Wilson and Legion of Boom selections he’d be the GM over there.

What did the Redskins do while he was there other than 9-7? Very Texans-esque sure but not a clear upgrade...
He wasn't GM of the 49ers either. But both the 49ers/Seahawks were successful while he was there. Not so much after he left. BTW, he's the guy that picked Mayfield for the Browns even though Dorsey was the GM. Dorsey was smart enough to hire him as a consultant.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
He wasn't GM of the 49ers either. But both the 49ers/Seahawks were successful while he was there. Not so much after he left. BTW, he's the guy that picked Mayfield for the Browns even though Dorsey was the GM. Dorsey was smart enough to hire him as a consultant.
Career history
As executive:


And I don’t think there was a “wrong” decision between Mayfield/Darnold last draft. Both should be very good QBs.

Poor Sashi used a tanking strategy to perfection and got fired to let Dorsey get the credit. He inherited a warchest of draft picks (thanks largely to Texans) and cap space.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
He wasn't GM of the 49ers either. But both the 49ers/Seahawks were successful while he was there. Not so much after he left.
He was GM of the Niners 2008-9. The Niners had ZERO winning seasons during his tenure, 2005-2009. 2010 was 6-10. The arrival of Harbaugh in 2011 turned them into a winner.

Pete Carroll was the #1 personnel guy in Seattle and obvious architect of their success. Kudos for the 3rd man advocating Wilson.

Did crap in Washington. Very few people get 2nd shots at being GM. How about you google up 3rds?
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
He was GM of the Niners 2008-9. The Niners had ZERO winning seasons during his tenure, 2005-2009. 2010 was 6-10. The arrival of Harbaugh in 2011 turned them into a winner.

Pete Carroll was the #1 personnel guy in Seattle and obvious architect of their success. Kudos for the 3rd man advocating Wilson.

Did crap in Washington. Very few people get 2nd shots at being GM. How about you google up 3rds?
But he’s got some edge to him! Mediocre football is ok as long as they got off field red flags to make it interesting.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Can you elaborate? You think Cal kept Gaine from being more proactive in FA? Why would he fire him if he was just taking marching orders?
McClain has said many times that OBrien basically has control over personnel and signed off on every move

So it had to be something gaine screwed up. Could have been failing to trade up when O'Brien told him to or something else
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
McClain has said many times that OBrien basically has control over personnel and signed off on every move

So it had to be something gaine screwed up. Could have been failing to trade up when O'Brien told him to or something else
If Pancakes is correct then that is what is wrong with the Texans. Their power structure is not right. The HC should have input, sure, but not over that of the GM. D'Antoni isn't making the decisions over Morey. Hinch isn't over Luhnow.

The Texans need to get their power structure back in order. Now that Gaine is gone, get rid of OB. Then hire a GM and let the GM bring his HC in. The Texans have done it ass backwards since 2006-07 with Kubiak and Smith, now OB and Gaine and it looks like they're about to do it again with OB and new GM.

Can you elaborate? You think Cal kept Gaine from being more proactive in FA? Why would he fire him if he was just taking marching orders?
Really? You want steelb to elaborate?
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
Can we all agree the Texans org is a clusterfvck?

Lovin me some Texans org.
When I think of a football organization I think about the big three. Owner, GM, coach.

I’m withholding judgement on Cal, but I like this move.
I wasn’t in awe of Gaine but I didn’t have anything against him. Didn’t really have a solid opinion of him yet.

The weak link still left in the chain and maybe the guy that can have the biggest impact is the Head Coach.

I’ve always stayed consistent in my thoughts that players/people in general can improve at their craft but I’ve not seen OB do anything to show he’s improved as a decision maker or offensive mind.

In fact I think he’s even shown regression.

We’ll see what’s what this year but if I had to put money on it I would say this team is not going to have any real shot of getting to the next level until they find either a new/better head coach or force OB to get a real offensive coordinator.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
If Pancakes is correct then that is what is wrong with the Texans. Their power structure is not right. The HC should have input, sure, but not over that of the GM. D'Antoni isn't making the decisions over Morey. Hinch isn't over Luhnow.

The Texans need to get their power structure back in order. Now that Gaine is gone, get rid of OB. Then hire a GM and let the GM bring his HC in. The Texans have done it ass backwards since 2006-07 with Kubiak and Smith, now OB and Gaine and it looks like they're about to do it again with OB and new GM.
The Patriots do not have the conventional power structure. Neither did the Jimmy Johnson Cowboys. The Walsh/Siefert Niners didn't either. That's the last 3 dynasty teams and 14 Lombardis that say conventional isn't the only or maybe even smart way. Coaching is #1.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I'm waiting for where this goes. As far as who runs team, if it works, I'm good. I'd rather Cal made decision to fire GM than O'Brien.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
He was GM of the Niners 2008-9. The Niners had ZERO winning seasons during his tenure, 2005-2009. 2010 was 6-10. The arrival of Harbaugh in 2011 turned them into a winner.

Pete Carroll was the #1 personnel guy in Seattle and obvious architect of their success. Kudos for the 3rd man advocating Wilson.

Did crap in Washington. Very few people get 2nd shots at being GM. How about you google up 3rds?
He found Wilson and Mayfield and is recognized as one of the best personnel guys in the NFL.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Career history
As executive:


And I don’t think there was a “wrong” decision between Mayfield/Darnold last draft. Both should be very good QBs.

Poor Sashi used a tanking strategy to perfection and got fired to let Dorsey get the credit. He inherited a warchest of draft picks (thanks largely to Texans) and cap space.
True, but to Dorsey"s credit he made good moves with the warchest. I've seen alot of guys screw it up.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
He found Wilson and Mayfield and is recognized as one of the best personnel guys in the NFL.
Which doesn't make your prior statements true.

He is recognized as having the potential to be one of the best if he could stay sober. Spare us the private life schtick. You don't get sh!t canned for drinking on your own time. You get sh!t canned 3 times for letting your drinking affect their time.

How's that google search for 3 time GMs going?
 

txtx

Waterboy
It’s one thing if they fired OB because a demonstrably better coach became available (The guy in NE, Reid, Carroll as examples).
Cal claiming firing Gaine was to improve by upsetting the status quo? A 6-year head coach is the status quo. I guess he thinks Houstonians are idiots, like Bud Adams did. Houston pro football seems to have flatlined ever since 1/16/1994 (Kansas City game), despite a change in owners and team. 25 years. Now we seem to have a Mussolini head coach (de facto GM) who says he's "still learning" how to protect his young QB by calling sweeps for him.

With no Bortles/Peterman/Gabbert/Osweiler on the schedule and such a new secondary, I was thinking 6-10. Maybe they'll iron things out, or maybe this will sink them.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The Patriots do not have the conventional power structure. Neither did the Jimmy Johnson Cowboys. The Walsh/Siefert Niners didn't either. That's the last 3 dynasty teams and 14 Lombardis that say conventional isn't the only or maybe even smart way. Coaching is #1.
Agreed. But...
Belichick, Johnson, Siefert... O'Brien

One of these doesn't fit.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Agreed. But...
Belichick, Johnson, Siefert... O'Brien

One of these doesn't fit.
That was the coaching is #1 part.

Now something doubly disconcerting about that set, the 3 succesful ones found their QB. OB got shoved into having a franchise QB in a move he is rumored to have opposed. How plumber's chin has managed thru this is boggling.

Two of those franchises had Brady, Montana, and Steve Young as well though.
Leave Aikman out and you miss the point. JJ chose & got the QB he wanted. If Jerry hadn't pissed him off would have been 4 in a row with that unmentionable QB.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
If Ric Smith is the new GM is there any reason to wait beyond Monday to announce? Whomever the new GM is does that person have to make aggressive moves now to improve this roster? I know Mr. McNair had an affinity towards Clowney. Does Cal McNair feel the same way? If another GM is in the wings, was there a reason to name Olsen as an interim?
 

Honoring Earl 34

Something Witty !
That was the coaching is #1 part.

Now something doubly disconcerting about that set, the 3 succesful ones found their QB. OB got shoved into having a franchise QB in a move he is rumored to have opposed. How plumber's chin has managed thru this is boggling.



Leave Aikman out and you miss the point. JJ chose & got the QB he wanted. If Jerry hadn't pissed him off would have been 4 in a row with that unmentionable QB.
Whoever was responsible for Larry Allen , Erik Williams , and Leon Lett hit it big . Small school guys who were pro bowlers .
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Whoever was responsible for Larry Allen , Erik Williams , and Leon Lett hit it big . Small school guys who were pro bowlers .
I think it was a combination of talent & coaching. We all know Lett in particular had motivational issues & Jimmy was very involved in the player/man He turned out to be.
 

Honoring Earl 34

Something Witty !
I think it was a combination of talent & coaching. We all know Lett in particular had motivational issues & Jimmy was very involved in the player/man He turned out to be.
I think I read that Jimmy , as a part of scouting , liked to watch big guys play basketball .
 


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