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Leinhart or Young
- Thread starter Texas
- Start date
texasguy346
Mod Squad
Out of those two I'd say Leinhart is the better QB. If your talkin about who'll be the best NFL QB I'd say Chris Leak will be a very good pro.
Fiddy
All Pro
I guess than you can throw out all stats cause all stats are dependent on a team effort. WR catches ball from QB but WR doesnt catch ball if he doesnt get open. WR doesnt catch ball if QB is on his back. WR doesnt catch ball if the other WRs dont run their routes to stretch the defense. O-line doesnt keep QB on feet if RB cant run. RB cant run if O-line doesnt get their there hat on someone. If RB doesnt run then playaction doesnt work and QB doesnt have enough time, etc. The indiviual is vital to the success of the team so you can compare team success when comparing individuals or it would be pointless to look at stats at all...DomDavis said:
STEEL BLUE TEXANS
Hall of Fame
Lucky said:
Agreed.
Panther5407
Rookie
Leinhart anyday for a quaterback. If I wanted a runningback, Young is my man. But best of all my team has a combo by the name of Reggie McNeil. Some of Youngs running plus Leinharts throwing and decision making.
Fiddy said:
He's part of the team, not the whole team. No stat can tell everything. Obviously a quarterback is dependent on the players around him for his own ratings, much like the team is dependent on all its players for their record. But, individual statistics are more reflective of a quarterback than W/L record. Neither one is perfect, but individual statistics are better. You can have the best quarterback in the world and he can he held down in W/L if the coaching and other players aren't good. Texas has had plenty of its very talented quarterbacks over the years... none seem to beat OU or win the national championship. Sooner or later, it's time to realize that it's the system and the coaching, not the individual players.
And McNeal isn't close to Leinart in decision-making.
Reddevil63
Veteran
Haha, do what? McNeal is just as fast if not faster than Young, he just doesnt have near as much talent around him. Even with that McNeal only threw 4 INT's to Young's 11, so that has to say something about his passing ability.Huge said:
Young is a great athlete who plays QB, while Leinhart is a great college QB (2 national championships prove that). Whether either become superstars at the next level, we will have to wait to see, cause like several have already mentioned there are better QB's in college this year than those two.
Oh by the way I selected Leinhart.
Oh by the way I selected Leinhart.
McNeal has comparable speed to Young, but he doesn't have close to the vision. Young has vision and cutbacks that most running backs would kill to have, much less quarterbacks. It's a lot more than straight-line speed with Young.
I don't. One of Texas' primary problems over the years has been the lack of a pocket presence from their quarterbacks. One of the knocks on both Mock and Simms was that they didn't seem to tuck away the ball when the defenses approached. That's a skill that can be taught and drilled into players, and when one school consistently has the same problems but with different players, you have to look at the people preparing them.
FYI, I do think Leinart is probably the better quarterback right now... not sure if it'll be that way in a couple of months, but for now, I agree. That said, I agree because of his statistics and individual performance, not the fact that he's won one or two (depending on what poll you use) championships. Matt Mauck, Craig Krynzel and Tee Martin are national champions too... doesn't prove they are/were great quarterbacks.
Fiddy said:
I don't. One of Texas' primary problems over the years has been the lack of a pocket presence from their quarterbacks. One of the knocks on both Mock and Simms was that they didn't seem to tuck away the ball when the defenses approached. That's a skill that can be taught and drilled into players, and when one school consistently has the same problems but with different players, you have to look at the people preparing them.
FYI, I do think Leinart is probably the better quarterback right now... not sure if it'll be that way in a couple of months, but for now, I agree. That said, I agree because of his statistics and individual performance, not the fact that he's won one or two (depending on what poll you use) championships. Matt Mauck, Craig Krynzel and Tee Martin are national champions too... doesn't prove they are/were great quarterbacks.
ATX
Hall of Fame
Tough question there. But i will say this, Ive seen Young play alot more than Leinart so, it's hard to be unbiased in this question. Young reminds me of a Vick type QB, great runner, average passer. Leinert is a great passer, but not as mobile as young. either way, should be a good year in college football to evaluate prospects.
Huge
All Pro
What does McNeal's speed have to do with anything? Speed doesn't help you break tackles...it just helps you out run them.Reddevil63 said:
McNeal is faster than Young...there's simply no quesitoning that. But if you think he's half the runner than Young is, you're delusional.
And who cares how many INTs each has? Do you think that matters in the offense Texas runs? In that offense, you better be able to take a lot of hits while making a ton of plays on your own. In that sense, McNeal or Leinart can't hold a candle to Young.
Hmmm.. good question. If a team wanted success, I'd go with Leinhart. But if the organization wanted to sell tickets, you have to go with Young. Although success also can lead to money, it's a different way the franchise will be heading. We're are seeing more and more scrambling QBs, if one can pull off a better arm than Michael Vick, that'd be great. Marcus Vick is said to be faster than his brother, but I totally doubt he has any arm like Michael.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
My money says by the end of this season Young will pass Leinhart as the better QB. It'll cost the kid forty million bucks in couple of years if he doesn't.
I voted for Leinhart in the poll, but I believe Young chatches him this season.
Ah , I've seen McNeil play. He will make a very nice living as Coach McNeil. Some guys are born to wear a whistle.
I voted for Leinhart in the poll, but I believe Young chatches him this season.
Ah , I've seen McNeil play. He will make a very nice living as Coach McNeil. Some guys are born to wear a whistle.
Panther5407
Rookie
Huge said:
Huge
All Pro
12 TDs passing...yes. McNeal had a whopping 14 TDs with 94 more attempts.
And like I said, you (and anybody else) can have McNeal. I have no question that he's the better NFL prospect as a QB. But he is not a better college QB than Vince Young.
Do you think Kliff Kingsbury was a better college QB than Tommie Frazier? Kingsbury certainly had the better passing numbers so he must've been the better QB, right?
And like I said, you (and anybody else) can have McNeal. I have no question that he's the better NFL prospect as a QB. But he is not a better college QB than Vince Young.
Do you think Kliff Kingsbury was a better college QB than Tommie Frazier? Kingsbury certainly had the better passing numbers so he must've been the better QB, right?
Fldvldog
Waterboy
Huge said:
What I'm trying to say is that McNeil protects the football better than Young. And one of the reasons why McNeil had more attempts is because Young is a "run-first" QB and everybody knows it. Nobody can deny that. McNeil is the run-and-gun QB that I would take (yes, It's just MY opinion). He will not have more than 5 or 6 INT's this season, and IMO, he will put up 18+ TD's.
Don't get me wrong, Young is a GREAT athlete -- but IMO, he is an ATHLETE not a pure QB. He, too, will have a great season this year, and I expect Texas to FINALLY knock off Ohio State this season...
Huge
All Pro
Um...no. Young has (had) a ton fewer passing attempts because Texas has had Cedric Benson in the backfield (and they're a running team). Not to mention all the games that Young has come out early because of blowouts. Add all that up, and Young is going to have a lot fewer passers. Not because he looks to run first.Fldvldog said:
I agree he's an athlete playing QB. But he is playing QB. And on the collegiate level, he's a better QB than McKneel.
Should we compare their Week 1 stats?
And I don't believe Texas has ever played Ohio State. Did you mean Oklahoma?
Fldvldog
Waterboy
Huge said:
My mistake. I was thinking Oklahoma and typed Ohio State
Maybe you are right when it comes to the fewer passes. But I have seen many games of Vince Young, and he IS a run-first QB. I'm still not sold on him being "better" than McNeal...
Why compare week 1 stats? If you put it that way, compare Young and McNeal's week 5 stats of 2004. Exactly. Everybody has off games...
Haams
Rookie
Of course Vince Young is a run first QB. Compare his stats to Vick's, I think Vince Young is the best running college quarterback ever. I voted for Young because I took the question to mean who is the best college QB. I'm not sure what Vince's pro carreer will look like and if he doesn't show some better passing skills he'll be a receiver on the next level. But, in the college game he dominates everybody he goes up against. In a college football game you can count on Vince to move the ball and put some points on the board. I also think the passing ability is there, and this year I expect him to show that. Not a bad start last night.
BuffSoldier
Veteran
Reddevil63 said:
Actaually Vince is much faster than Reggie McNeal, even though Matt leinart is still my #1.
Panther5407
Rookie
BuffSoldier said:
Reggie ran a 4.28 this offseason for NFL scouts. A faster recorded time than Young.
Huge
All Pro
Explain a "run-first" QB. To me, that's a QB that when he has a run/pass option (Texas employs this in their games), he looks for open field to run before looking for WRs to throw to. Do you think this is what Young does or do you have a different opinion as to what a "run-first" QB is?Fldvldog said:
Why compare their Week 1 stats? Because if McNeal is that much better of a passer than Young, even his off games would at least compare to Young's. But again, I do believe McNeal to be the better passer. It's just not as big of a difference as everybody would like to think it is.
If you're still not sold on him being better than McNeal (by "better", I mean the better college QB), then I really don't know what to tell you. Pointing towards McNeal's superior ability to not turn the ball over just ain't doing it for me.
The bottom line is that when they've needed a play to be made, Vince has done it time and time again. You can't say that about Reggie (see last night for yet another example). If Reggie was on the same level as far as playmaking as Vince, he wouldn't be 3 (or is it 4?) games below .500 as a starter for his career.
BuffSoldier said:
Panther5407 said:
Yeah, Reggie is definately the faster of the two. He's just not the better runner.
I read/heard about Reggie's 4.28 but I never heard what Vince's time was. What was it?
This thread was started quite a bit before either team played a game this season ...
My original vote was Matt Leinhart .... After watching both games yesterday I have to say my mind has changed . Vince Young looked MUCH improved in the passing game from last year and just as good on the ground .
This is one of those posts where your opinion can swing every time they play ...
My original vote was Matt Leinhart .... After watching both games yesterday I have to say my mind has changed . Vince Young looked MUCH improved in the passing game from last year and just as good on the ground .
This is one of those posts where your opinion can swing every time they play ...
Huge
All Pro
A&M has a ton more talent than Baylor. A&M has more talent than Texas Tech. A&M has more talent than Clemson. A&M has more talent than a lot of teams they have lost to over the past few years and in many games that have been close that had no reason being close.Fldvldog said:
The "lesser talent" might hold water if the difference in their records wasn't so vast. Think of it this way: No way in hell does Texas win the Rose Bowl if Reggie McNeal is the starting QB. That performance had very little to do with the talent surrounding him that game. And the thing is, he was doing that all year long and people just brushed it aside..."well yeah, look at all their talent".
You're right, Clemson is a better team than ULL. But they are still a bad team. If you're one of the top QBs in the country and you're playing for the 14th ranked team, you complete better than 50% of your passes (which is about the same rate as he completed in high school).Fldvldog said:
Reggie's problem is the same as Vince's and that's inconsistency. But people don't think of it that way because he doesn't have a funky throwing motion.
Chris Leak is freakin' awesome. I'd pay money just to watch his warm up throws. That guy has the best mechanics in the country. Good friend of mine is a Gators fan so I always pull for them in the SEC.Fldvldog said:
GetItHowULive
Practice Squad
V Young all the way!!!!!!!!!!
HoustonHarley
Noob
TheOgre said:
And like most good Longhorns, he will. McNeil doesn't even belong in this thread. He looked very average at best in the spotlight Saturday night against a not so good Clemson squad. And speaking of INT's, Reggie lovers should remember the important ones he has thrown in the past....you know those to the good guys in Orange. You and Coach Lisp, need to quiet down and wait your turn. It may come again one year, until then go take care of the sheep!
GetItHowULive
Practice Squad
Young Gun all the way! I find it more exciting to watch him play you never know what to expect.
Hook 'em
Hook 'em
Panther5407
Rookie
HoustonHarley said:
That not so good Clemson team is ranked #25, so they aren't all that bad. McNeil had a off game, thats easy to see. Look what he did to Clemson last year. Anyone that thinks that Reggie is average at best needs to review what they have seen of him because they obviously havnt seen much at all.
Huge
All Pro
Yeah, they're ranked 25th now. In an effort to save face, the voters are going to give some props to a team that just knocked off a team that the voters placed at 14th.
But if you believe Clemson is the 25th best team in the country, I've got some property in Arizona I can sell you. And they were worse last year. Who cares what Reggie did to them then? Even Duke beat Clemson last year.
I do agree that Reggie is above average and that he did have an off game (even his stats were a bit skewed because of the drops by his receivers). But he has always been inconsistent and last Saturday was no different.
But if you believe Clemson is the 25th best team in the country, I've got some property in Arizona I can sell you. And they were worse last year. Who cares what Reggie did to them then? Even Duke beat Clemson last year.
I do agree that Reggie is above average and that he did have an off game (even his stats were a bit skewed because of the drops by his receivers). But he has always been inconsistent and last Saturday was no different.