Yeah, I don't disagree with you, but I just don't think Andy Dalton is all that at QB. And not a big fan of Marvin Lewis. He's very Kubiakish to me.
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Kubiak's Next Destination
- Thread starter 2slik4u
- Start date
Yeah, I don't disagree with you, but I just don't think Andy Dalton is all that at QB. And not a big fan of Marvin Lewis. He's very Kubiakish to me.
drs23
Veteran
Is that a Kubiak quote? Doesn't seem like something he'd go on record as saying. If he did say it, do you have the quote/source?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
It may have been the best thing for the team but this is bunk. To be forced to show up you have to not want to show up. No chance Kubiak didn't want to finish out the season. He unlike most coaches who can see their demise had a perfect excuse for walking away and did not.
The Bengals these last two years have felt like if the 2009 Texans had the other games fall right and made the playoffs. They got to the table but it doesn't really feel like they belong there.
Yes, yes and not one which can be linked.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Kubiak is not Bobby Petrino.. he's a NFL lifer, he's going to show up and play it out, especially if he wants future opportunities in the league. That doesn't mean he's going to enjoy playing out a string of games for a franchise when he already knows it's a forgone conclusion that said franchise is going to fire him. The stress was obviously weighing on him which is probably why he stroked out and was having health issues to begin with
So yes, you're right, he wasn't "forced" to show up, he only was paid millions of dollars and was contractually obligated to show up. None the less, the decision to let him go when Houston did had absolutely nothing to do with a lack of class.
The Houston Texans and McNair treated Kubiak with more than enough class.. gave him his first HCing opportunity and stuck by him and allowed him to try to navigate his way through learning curves and tons of mistakes. They stuck by him and gave him chance after chance when other teams would've pulled the plug years ago. There's a reason why Gary Kubiak took out a full page ad in the Chronicle.. He knows how well he was treated during his tenure here. People who feel they were disrespected and treated with a lack of class don't take out full page ads to thank their former employers.
It's exactly the vibe I feel, as well. Almost like their goal is just making it to the playoffs, whereas other teams shoot for Super Bowls and even championships.
Considering Marvin Lewis has been there since 2003 (almost the entire history of the Texans) and has generated exactly zero playoff wins, I'm just not confident that his team is going to dominate the AFC North year in and year out. I take back that he's Kubiakish. At least Gary has won a couple of playoff games, where Marvin is 0-5 in 11 seasons.
Classy would have been to come out & say, "We can see it eating away at him & I just wouldn't feel right putting him through all that."
Instead, the man said, "Don't make no damned sense to put Schaub in the game! I want to see Keenum!!"
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I love sarcasm.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
You are not alone.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Did he really say that?
Please supply that quote.And nobody knows what Bob told Kubiak behind closed doors when he decided to fire him (Bob doesn't have to tell the fans crap about what was said, because it's non of our freaking business) for all we know he told him exactly what you say he should of said, but whatever he did say it must of been said and handled with class.. since AGAIN, Kubiak still felt compelled to issue a statement thanking Bob McNair..
Infact here is Kubiak's exact statement..
Funny.. He even brought up the "C word" in his statement. :vincepalm:
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
"Lousy and classless" :vincepalm: Because after letting him keep his job for 8 seasons with little success we decided to fire him? That's nonsense and reeks of a loser's mentality. Raise the bar and expectations a little, seriously.
Kubiak failed at reaching expectations which was why he was fired and it was classy to give him more undeserved shots at trying to reach those expectation.. truth is he should've been fired years ago. So no, he wasn't treated badly in the end. Outside of Cincinnati, no other team would've allowed up with mediocrity for as long as Houston did. He was NOT treated poorly during any time during his tenure here, he should be (and I'm sure he is) thankful for his time here spent working for a owner who had as much patience as Bob McNair had.
It's also complete nonsense to assume or "bet" that the Texans were "all ready talking to O'Brien long before week 13". That's nothing but pure speculation so it's not even worth discussing, especially since it's highly doubtful to begin with since the Texans still had a shot to make the playoffs long before week 13 (if they would've won that game against the Colts, they still had a realistic shot to take the division before they completely collapsed and quit on their coach). It's not being "naïve" to think Houston wasn't looking for his replacement long before week 13.. it's just being realistic and logical.
Gary Kubiak wasn't treated lousy or without class.. he was coddled in Houston by a newbie owner who lacked experience. He was treated more than fairly and with the up most class, it was actually classy to go ahead and fire him when they did.. it was a mercy killing and to continue to just carry him along and keep him employed when everybody and their mom knew he was going to be fired is what would of been cruel, lousy, and classless.
You represent many. Of course that doesn't make you right. But it doesn't mean you're wrong. But you could be. But maybe you aren't. Absolutely you are. But then again...
You like it only when it aligns with your perspective. Otherwise, you start babbling about Satan and other such nonsense.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
You might as well just typed "blah blah blah".. because it would've been equally as incoherent, non-constructive, or thought provoking.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
11 game losing streak, team racks up 14 penalties for 177 yards which was twice as many as we had rushing against the weakest sister in our division... who swept us.
Business is business. He pissed off the owner. Everyone and their dog knew Kubiak would be fired. Thinking that delaying that would somehow be more humane is silly. And I supported Gary... and I'm pulling for him.
If you read his posts in a Gilbert Gottfried voice, it'll help.
[IMGwidthsize=250]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8429/7797204920_a4a4c72b06_b.jpg[/IMG]
I never argued Kubiak had didn't have class.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
Good luck to you Gary.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Nobody said you did and Kubiak's class level has absolutely nothing to do with anything that I posted or what has been discussed.
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
And good health too.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Well wouldn't that sum up about 90% of anything that's posted on this entire board? Without the bullsh!t, assumptions, or opinions from hearsay, this board would just move at a snail's pace.
But I do agree.. we were 2-14 and Gary got canned (and deservedly so) as a result of it. His firing and the timing of his firing was in no way shape or form a indication of McNair's "level of class" as Bob gave Kubiak PLENTY of time, assets, and basically everything he wanted. It was just simply time and Bob was out of rope. Now it's time to move on.. I'm glad we have a new coach and I'm glad it's O'Brien since he was my top candidate from the get go.
Well wouldn't that sum up about 90% of anything that's posted on this entire board? Without the bullsh!t, assumptions, or opinions from hearsay, this board would just move at a snail's pace.
But I do agree.. we were 2-14 and Gary got canned (and deservedly so) as a result of it. His firing and the timing of his firing was in no way shape or form a indication of McNair's "level of class" as Bob gave Kubiak PLENTY of time, assets, and basically everything he wanted. It was just simply time and Bob was out of rope. Now it's time to move on.. I'm glad we have a new coach and I'm glad it's O'Brien since he was my top candidate from the get go.
I'm not so sure it was deserved .... A lot of the issues this team went thru last year were no fault of Kubiak's and he had no control over many of them either.
Schaub's implosion (sh!t happens), Schaub's contract (Rick Smith) , the fact that they had no viable backup (Rick Smith) , Ed Reed (McNair). The cap disaster that led to several heavy contributors (Barwin , Demeco Ryans , Brisiel) having to be cut loose because of that hot mess (Rick Smith & his cap manager , I forget his name).... The disaster that their draft turned into (Much of this falls on Smith & the scouts). Then the injuries to key players (Cushing , Foster, Manning ,OD , not to mention Schaub) .... Everything that could have gone wrong went wrong and much of it Kubiak had zero control over.
I'm not saying it wasn't time to move on ..... Just that I'm not so sure Gary could have been avoided moving on given the circumstances.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Yes plenty of people made mistakes... as well as Smith so he should be gone too and I don't like the fact that we're hiring a new HC, but are carrying over a G.M. from the previous regime.. who was part of that tree before we ever even hired him here. Having said that, if we are going to keep him on, I'm going to give him a clear slate and be open minded for this one draft/offseason, because I don't know how much say so or power he had with Kubiak in personnel decisions on draft day or in free agency. I'm curious to see how he does working with a new coach.
My problem with Kubiak though and why I wanted him to go.. wasn't because of the injuries we suffered or the loss of talent in FA and the bad signings. My problem has always been due to the lack of big game wins, prime time flops, and the lack of adjustments made on the fly. This guy couldn't make a halftime adjustment to save his life.. and once the opposing coach had his number the game was usually over, because Kubiak didn't have the ability to counter the other coach's move. And his lack of adjustments went way beyond just in game adjustments.. he also lacked the ability to adjust and know when to move of from players and coaches on his staff. Everybody knew Marciano should've been fired after 2012.. except for Kubiak. He was basically told that he had to take on Phillips and fire his buddy who oversaw one of the worst defenses in NFL history, which was the #1 reason why we even made the playoffs for two seasons during his tenure. The guy is just too slow to adjust.
So over time after seeing all of this happen time and time again, I lost all faith that Kubiak would ever have the ability to lead this team to a championship. Even last season when we were having our best season in franchise history.. we still got our teeth kicked in when we played against the elite programs and in games that really mattered. That was always this team's M.O. under Kubiak.
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htownfan32
Hall of Fame
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
You like it only when it aligns with your perspective. Otherwise, you start babbling about Satan and other such nonsense.
I like sarcasm when the subject is worthy of sarcasm. But I'm serious about the fate awaiting mockers and scorners who think there is no God and no Judgement. I am grieved that so many will go willingly into the eternal torment that awaits them when there is no reason to. But just as Satan would not overcome his Pride, neither do many of his followers, whether they acknowledge Satan of not.
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Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I was simply giving homage to the current Sprint commercial by James Earl Jones and Malcolm McDowell.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Earl_Jones
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
WTF 
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
I missed that commercial so I apologize. I didn't know what the hell you were talking about.
Well wouldn't that sum up about 90% of anything that's posted on this entire board? Without the bullsh!t, assumptions, or opinions from hearsay, this board would just move at a snail's pace.
The thing for me is that people talk like the things they are saying are absolute facts .... when in reality , they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground and the vitriol with which they talk about individuals .... some with the team , some gone.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Nobody knows what went and how things went down, so just looking in from the outside we can only form opinions on things said from people that were actually present and know how things went down. Which is why if Kubiak says McNair always treated him with class, I have to take the man at his word and assume that that's exactly what happened and McNair has always treated him with class.. He's done nothing to give me a different opinion.
What I stated has nothing to do with McNair or his treatment of Gary .... but the specific posters attitudes towards Kubiak and others over the years. One minute they love them , the next they want to eat their children ....
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Winning cures all ills.. and everybody loves a winner, so that's understandable. When you win people love you. When you lose, especially set franchise records in losing, the masses will want to eat your children.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Surmise is fine but Corrosion's point is valid. Everyone should acknowledge we are dealing with incomplete information and guesswork. Taking that and turning it into biblical condemnation and character assassination is a foolish enterprise. Not going to change though.
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Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
It's not going to change, because that's what drives the majority of discussions on this board. Unless we always get a on hand account from a player or coach, every discussion here is always going to be driven by opinion and pure speculation.
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infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Sure, the incomplete information and speculation are natural. But folks don't have to behave as if that leads to full and/or accurate knowledge, eg. knowing the limitations, they could refrain from character assassination.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
I agree. People need to separate the character of a person or who a person is from his job title.. being a football coach is just a job and while I think Kubiak wasn't the guy to lead this team at that job, I have zero doubt that Kubiak is a upstanding individual, father, and husband.. and I'll always appreciate the work he's done with wounded warriors.
The same way I feel about the things McNair has done and the person he is outside of holding his title of "NFL owner". That's why it ticks me off when people call him cheap or question his class. People don't know what kind of things he's done outside of football and I'm sure nobody rooted harder for the success of Gary Kubiak than Bob McNair, it simply didn't work out, but just by reading Kubiak's comments on McNair, both guys had to leave on good terms. People should just leave it at that and move forward.
drs23
Veteran
Losing Boldin and Pitta (for most of the season) hurt Flacco. So did Ray Rice's slump. 2013 was easily Flacco's worst season, and yeah, some of that has to be laid on him. During his previous 5 years, Flacco averaged 20 TDs/11 INTs. Kubiak very well could put him back on track (if the owner and GM gives him the weapons). I just think Harbaugh has earned the right to select the coach to turn the offense around. If he had reservations regarding Kubiak, those should have been heard.
Of course, we have no actual knowledge of how Harbaugh feels about Kubiak. They're "reports", and reports can be and are wrong. I'm just saying "if" Harbaugh had a problem with Kubiak as OC. The more I think about it, I can't see Kubiak taking an assistant position where the head coach doesn't really want him.
Scooter
Funky
i have 2 reservations about this move. first being that it's being reported that this wasnt a move that was approved by harbaugh. if they're going to be butting heads, this signing is going to fail. second is the ravens still appear to be in a transitional stage with their roster after the superbowl payouts and retirements. they could become talent deficient on the offensive line in 2014 depending on what moves are made.
if those two criteria dont doom kubiak before he even gets to training camp, this is a superbowl winning move for the ravens. kubiak gives the ravens exactly what they need. he brings a real offensive scheme that will add much needed balance to the playbook and a teaching element that's been missing on offense. in previous years the hole in the raven's game is a tendency to get away from ray rice, and their issues trying to chuck the ball. kubiak will lean heavier on the run game and play smarter, especially with the tightends, not losing games that ozzie's defense should win. he's going to put up more points with an extremely better targeting system for flacco, retaining the big play while improving the short and intermediate and play-action passing game. finally he's going to add some stability. kubiak's offense adds cohesion that the ravens have been famously poor with, formerly swinging wildly and upsetting star players.
for the detractors, kubiak has a huuuuge knock. he's predictable and gets too locked into a gameplan to make the proper adjustments. if you could put him under any coach, someone who's full of spice and wont allow things to get stale, who would it be? yeah, a harbaugh. this is a fantastic move for the ravens, though it may very well be for only a season, especially if kubiak isnt allowed to bring in everyone he wants.
if those two criteria dont doom kubiak before he even gets to training camp, this is a superbowl winning move for the ravens. kubiak gives the ravens exactly what they need. he brings a real offensive scheme that will add much needed balance to the playbook and a teaching element that's been missing on offense. in previous years the hole in the raven's game is a tendency to get away from ray rice, and their issues trying to chuck the ball. kubiak will lean heavier on the run game and play smarter, especially with the tightends, not losing games that ozzie's defense should win. he's going to put up more points with an extremely better targeting system for flacco, retaining the big play while improving the short and intermediate and play-action passing game. finally he's going to add some stability. kubiak's offense adds cohesion that the ravens have been famously poor with, formerly swinging wildly and upsetting star players.
for the detractors, kubiak has a huuuuge knock. he's predictable and gets too locked into a gameplan to make the proper adjustments. if you could put him under any coach, someone who's full of spice and wont allow things to get stale, who would it be? yeah, a harbaugh. this is a fantastic move for the ravens, though it may very well be for only a season, especially if kubiak isnt allowed to bring in everyone he wants.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
No problem. It is the definition of, "you had to be there."
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
There used to be a distinction between winning by effort and selling your soul to the Devil. I guess since so few believe in the supernatural realm, all limits are gone. Now it is be as EVIL as you can get away with.
How many OCs did Harbaugh bring in to "fix" the offense? He's had Cam Cameron & Jim Caldwell that I can think of off the top of my head. Other than the flashes we've seen from Flacco, I don't think they've ever been consistent on offense outside of Ray Rice & that hasn't been the same the last two years.
Maybe Biscotti took a page from the McNair playbook & made the decision for Harbaugh.
I agree with you, you'd think Harbaugh earned some lattitude.. WHYDFML though..... like I said before, wow!!
I never believed this. Predictable insomuch that he wants to run the ball when he has a lead.... yeah. But if we had the personnel to allow us to pick up 3rd & 1, or 3rd & 2 with consistency, like we did in 2011, all that predictability would have worked in our favor.
In the past, the Ravens were able to do just that. Run the ball at will. Maybe that's changed, I don't know. But if they can still convert on 3rd downs with the running game, even when the other team knows it's coming, they'll be hard to stop.
& Kubiak is going to take his shots down-field. Flacco is much better at it than Schaub & they've got more speed on the outside than we've had (on average)..... they're going to put up some points.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I wonder if the reports don't come down to what most would consider a relatively minor disagreement. Two of the last three candidates standing were Kubiak and Shanahan so at least for them the philosophy/system is essentially the same. Maybe Harbaugh leaned youth (and not having a former HC around) and Ozzie favored experience (why get the pupil if you can get the teacher).
My aren't we optimistic this morning? If this is the case Gary should've been able to accomplish all of this here in Houston. I mean he only had 8 yrs to get things right. (Love already making OL excuses.) The Ravens OL needs 3 things. A RT, C, to stay healthy.
I can tell you one thing though, there will be accountability in Ozzies org. He doesn't play around.
But how will his offense function with Torrey Smith type WR's instead of the irreplaceable Walter type WR?
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Must not have been paying attention to post game comments from opposing defenders. Multiple times they admitted, "we knew what was coming". Then Chris Mortensen dropped it on NFL Insiders...
Another player stated they knew what plays were coming based on down, distance, and field position. Gary settled into a pattern.
A good defense always knows what's coming. That's what makes them a good defense. It's rare, when watching a football game that you'll say, "Whoa, where'd that come from?"
On 3rd & 1, most teams will try to run the ball & pick up that 1st down. 3rd & long, you're going to see a lot of screens, especially if you have good RBs.
Exascor
Veteran
A good offense will know that the defense thinks they know what's coming and will throw a curve ball every now and then to catch them off guard. That's what makes them a good offense.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Really?
Then why did the best defense in the league wait until 2 minutes to go in the 4th quarter to intercept Schaub and force overtime? Since they know which play was coming, why didn't they jump the route and put the game away in the first half and coast? Did they forget that they knew which plays were being called, and then remember later?
Why did Kansas City let San Diego score 41 points on them if they knew what plays were coming? KC had a top defense? And how did the Eagles "know what was coming" against the Redskins this year? The Eagles defense was average against scoring and worst against yards? Certainly not "good" by league standards.
And why do "good" defenses know the plays but others don't? Is it a secret that only good coaches know? How have they keep that secret away from the other teams?
Or is there something the Texans and Redskins had in common...?
He did get it right .... Back to back division Champs. That's the top 18% in back to back seasons.
A 2011 playoff win against a pretty solid Bungles team .... with a 3rd string 5th round rookie at QB.
A playoff loss to the Ravens with a 3rd string QB in a game that despite Jacoby Jones gifting the Ravens a TD and a 17-3 lead .... they were never really out of the game and had a chance to win.
It takes a little luck to win a superbowl .... a healthy Schaub no fumble by Jacoby Jones ....
A 2012 playoff win at home and a loss on the road in the divisional round to arguably the best team in the league over the past .... 15 years. That team has 8 conference championship game appearances , 5 superbowl appearances and 3 Lombardi trophy's since 2001. FFS it must be nice to be that good for that long .....But they have a guy named Tom Brady who has remained healthy for most of that time.
Then your quarterback who has been reliable for the last 6 seasons morphs into a loop of the butt fumble .... and everything that could go wrong did go wrong.
It was time to part ways , no doubt ..... and while this team didn't win a superbowl , they were above average the past two years being one of the last 8 teams standing in a league of 32 .... with a little luck might have won a superbowl.
How many teams didn't sniff the playoffs over that period of time ? How many dont have a playoff win ? How many won their division ?
This is a tough league .... with one winner and 31 losers.
If Obrien cant fix the QB position .... he wont do much if any better than Kubiak did last season and there is no guarantee he will duplicate or improve upon those results ...