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Kubiak: Keep or Fire?
- Thread starter Maddict5
- Start date
Pantherstang84
@rolisrgti06
Yeah how dare people really think things over for themselves.
Yes the win over Seattle shows Kubiak has not lost the locker room. That right there is huge. The players have not packed it in, unlike Seattle those guys were ready to get on the plane after the 1st quarter.
I really thought he had lost the team after last week.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
There are just to many "Ifs" and conditions I'd put on replacing Kubiak right now for me to vote.
The problem is I can see both the good and bad side to replacing him after the season. Most especially if they get it wrong again. I'd rather have Kubiak come back next year than a mistake be made in hiring the wrong person just because we want to pull the trigger on this.
The problem is I can see both the good and bad side to replacing him after the season. Most especially if they get it wrong again. I'd rather have Kubiak come back next year than a mistake be made in hiring the wrong person just because we want to pull the trigger on this.
I agree
I voted "No"
but heard a reporter on ESPN say that McNair likes him so chances are Kubes will be back next year. So time to be positive and list some things to look forward to:
1. Player Loyalty (don't care if the Kicker missed back to back Game winning FGs, he is my buddy)
2. Some good halves of football (one a game/only one a game)
3. A team that finishs the season strong (once we are official out of the playoff picture)
Man I am so excited I have goose-bumps............not!
but heard a reporter on ESPN say that McNair likes him so chances are Kubes will be back next year. So time to be positive and list some things to look forward to:
1. Player Loyalty (don't care if the Kicker missed back to back Game winning FGs, he is my buddy)
2. Some good halves of football (one a game/only one a game)
3. A team that finishs the season strong (once we are official out of the playoff picture)
Man I am so excited I have goose-bumps............not!
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
What a great reason by McNair to keep him.
To many times have I seen the same mistakes. In a game we should have won 49-0, we let the Hawks hang around for to long. If they could have got any kind of momentum, they would have been right back in that game. We have a stupid fasination with the run when it does'nt work, and we abandon it when it's starting to get on track. He thinks he's the smartest guy in the NFL, and outthinks himself and his team. Same clock managment issues, promoting his buddies without even INTERVIEWING another person, sticking with players who obviously aren't getting the job done instead of trying a person off the bench, P.S( JJ, Foster, ect...). Tired of watching a 10 win team struggle to be .500. Also, YOU HAVE TO WIN MORE THAN 3 GAMES IN YOUR OWN DIVISION!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You cant be the AFC South's whipping boy.
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
My comments in bold. It's no dilemma for me. If they played in any other
division than the AFC South, they'd be a perennial playoff team. However,
the flaw in their plan is that they've decided to IGNORE THEIR OWN DIVISION.
Every game that mattered this year, which is the first year they've HAD
any meaningful games, they've LOST. You can't go 7-17 in your own division,
for FOUR YEARS, and expect to keep your job.
Thanks for building the roster, but continuity only matters when you're
WINNING!
badboy
Hall of Fame
You mention some of the things that have me thinking also. Is it possible Pitts can return healthy and be a decent LG for a reasonable contract offer? A power back like Gerhart, Dwyer or maybe even Dixon could run behind Brown and Pitts or Caldwell and Winston. I think Pitts would strengthen Brown also. I have basically written Pitts off but maybe I moved to fast. A Haden or Kyle Wilson to replace and upgrade DR and a solid FS to eventually replace Eugen Wilson and maybe a center like Thomas Austin or the Baylor kid.
Ranger Tom
All Pro
We should probably do this at least a week after the season ends, so that we can look back over all 16 games and calm down.
I voted to keep him, and here's why: Dom Capers had been in the league for a good while. From that perspective, he didn't go 2-10 after three years. He went 2-10 after many years. Kubiak is on track to go 8-8 in fourth year ever as a coach, with an offensive line that is missing both its starting guards. I have faith that he can get the job done in his fifth year.
I voted to keep him, and here's why: Dom Capers had been in the league for a good while. From that perspective, he didn't go 2-10 after three years. He went 2-10 after many years. Kubiak is on track to go 8-8 in fourth year ever as a coach, with an offensive line that is missing both its starting guards. I have faith that he can get the job done in his fifth year.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Capers was only here four years and Kubiak has only beaten his best yearly record by one game, with vastly superior players.
yeah, but the players did not like Capers like they like Kubiak.
__________________
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
~ William Arthur Ward
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
True, but you know that 7-9 team was a mirage. You didn't walk into the Indy game expecting to win or even play them well. You hoped they would beat the likes of Cleveland - and they failed.
Did you check the DVOA for the 2005 team that went 7-9? Divide the number by QB rating in order to calculate the square root of insanity.
__________________
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
~ William Arthur Ward
powerfuldragon
Enchilada Aficionado.
wow. quite a split. and all this since the seahawks game.. before that game i think it was something like 50 - 25 in favor of dropping kubiak.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
So Capers gets no credit for taking worthless players and getting a 7-9 season out of them?
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Its amazing how the scales tip after beating a really awful team. Personally, I didn't change my opinion about Kubiak since I've always known his team can push around the dregs of the league. I don't know why anyone would change their mind about a coach when his team beats up the little sisters of the poor.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I truly don't know how much credit to give to Capers for that season. That team lived off of turnovers. Sure coaches can talk about those but I am not sure how much influence they really have. Dunta had 6 picks that year and has only had 7 in the five seasons since for example. DD was the entire offense. How much credit does Capers get for that? Anyway, the main point was that 7-9 team obviously was only 1 win away from equalling Kubiak's best year so far but I think this team is clearly superior. If the two were to play 16 games the current Texans beat that 7-9 team 13 or 14 times.
That was kinda how I felt as well, especially considering the "whopping" 3 pts. our offense put up in the 2nd half. The Defense played BOTH halves.
Edit: Running the ball to burn clock may be OK, but it puts extra pressure on the Defense if you keep them on the field longer (with all the three & outs). I do NOT consider that to be a good decision. That may work against the 'hawks, but NOT the Colts.
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C'mon, now, AJ had 79 receptions for 1142 yards. That is a huge chunk of offense.
The 2004 team also had a 2-4 division record, compared with the 2009 record of 1-5.
I'm not trying to make a case of 2004 vs. 2009, but it's not like it is obviously clear that the either team is better than the other based on results and scoreboard.
While we certainly feel that the 2009 is the most talented Texans team to date, the big question is why are the results the same as any year before?
__________________
“The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.”
~ William Arthur Ward
Pantherstang84
@rolisrgti06
*sigh* I don't have time to play dissect the post, but your comment about good coaching at Indy brings to mind one comment.
Jim Caldwell is one lucky SOB. He has a QB that makes him look like a freaking genius all Caldwell has to do is stay out of the way. Defensively the Colts have a system and they can plug players right in. Houston does not have a defensive system yet.
I will say this. You are a tee totaler once you jump off the bridge you deliberately leave the parachute behind.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
I've seen great coaches retire and then the next guy totally craters. Gotta give Jim Caldwell some credit. They changed their defense from the tampa2 this year as well, so it's not like they are running Dungy's defense.
Texaninlild
Veteran
I think Kubiak should go, but only for the right coach. I want a coach who has won a Super Bowl. I want a been there, done that guy.
1. Chin
2. Chuckie
1. Chin
2. Chuckie
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
One more year!!
I'm just a newbie that had to register in order to vote but, I still remember all the years of no football, then the years of very ugly football. That four game skid tore my heart out every Sunday but, I can deal with one more year of 8-8 or 9-7 looking back.
Lets give a very young team and a very "young" coach one more year to take what they have been learning and apply it.
I'm just a newbie that had to register in order to vote but, I still remember all the years of no football, then the years of very ugly football. That four game skid tore my heart out every Sunday but, I can deal with one more year of 8-8 or 9-7 looking back.
Lets give a very young team and a very "young" coach one more year to take what they have been learning and apply it.
noxiousdog
Rookie
And then there's Mike Tomlin. He's done great and cratered!
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
I agree with some others. So we beat one of the worst teams I've seen in the NFL this year and all of a sudden Kubes is the man? Seriously. No reasoning about how it took him 13 games to give a rousing speech to help save his job?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I knew someone would bring up AJ when I typed that. I left him out not because he wasn't very good but because we so underutilized him. Sure HWWNBN found him a fair amount but let's face it, that offense went through DD. That isn't at all to slight AJ - it wasn't his fault. That team overall though was grossly inferior to the current product. Only one of our losses that year was by less than a TD. This year only one is by more than a TD. I know the "all that counts is the W" argument but I just don't see it that way.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Yup!! We found out the hard way in the 16th game. The 22-14 loss versus Cleveland. They came into Reliant 3-12. We were 7-8 hoping for our first non-losing season.... FAIL.
Interesting things to note...we had a running game with a defensive minded head coach...Capers got to 7-9 with much less talent than Kubiak, who has managed only one more win in a season.
These are not pro- or con- arguments about Kubiak as much as they are observations. While they can certainly spin in a given direction, though.
I think the "more talented 2009 Texans" both praises and hurts Kubiak. On the one hand, he has made improvement in terms of talent, but yet with more talent seems to fall short every year.
Strange as it sounds, that inability to 'seal the deal' is what reminds me about both the 2004 and the 2009 Texans. When they really needed to win to [insert goal here], they both seem to come up short. We had four games in a row this season that needed to pull a single freakin' win from, but we get...FAIL.
__________________
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
~ William Arthur Ward
Showtime100
Got JJ?
55-55 at the moment. I guess we are a little torn..lol. I voted no for many in-game decisions and non-decisions. [Half the House applauds, the other half is quiet as a mouse - wait - did somebody just call me a liar?]
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
I'm noticing a disturbing trend coming from the "Pro-Kubiak" camp. They
constantly back up their argument to keep Kubiak here by comparing
his current regime to that of the Capers/Casserly era. Of course, if you
do that, then this regime looks like a perennial winner. However, to get
this team where it needs to go, its sights need to be set MUCH HIGHER.
Kubiak runs a fun camp. Players get days off after wins. They get plenty
of time to play Halo and Madden in the lockerroom. Players who "don't really
feel fresh" get to take full days off from practice. This is nice. This is
compassionate. However, it translates to a lack of focus and lack of
situational awareness at crucial times ON THE FIELD.
Even in the Seahawks game, we had a fumbled snap in the redzone. We also
had break down on special teams which resulted in a blocked fieldgoal. Eric
Winston false-started in the redzone again. This was a game that should
have been won my much more than 34-7, but bad teams can't make you
pay for fumbling a snap in the redzone. The good teams do, which the
Texans have all of ONE win against this season, and SEVEN out of
THIRTY TWO TRIES under Kubiak.
Who are the Texans' peers? The Colts, Jags, and Titans? Or, is it the Lions,
Rams, Bills, and Buccanneers? When Kubiak is here, it's the latter. I'd
prefer the former.
constantly back up their argument to keep Kubiak here by comparing
his current regime to that of the Capers/Casserly era. Of course, if you
do that, then this regime looks like a perennial winner. However, to get
this team where it needs to go, its sights need to be set MUCH HIGHER.
Kubiak runs a fun camp. Players get days off after wins. They get plenty
of time to play Halo and Madden in the lockerroom. Players who "don't really
feel fresh" get to take full days off from practice. This is nice. This is
compassionate. However, it translates to a lack of focus and lack of
situational awareness at crucial times ON THE FIELD.
Even in the Seahawks game, we had a fumbled snap in the redzone. We also
had break down on special teams which resulted in a blocked fieldgoal. Eric
Winston false-started in the redzone again. This was a game that should
have been won my much more than 34-7, but bad teams can't make you
pay for fumbling a snap in the redzone. The good teams do, which the
Texans have all of ONE win against this season, and SEVEN out of
THIRTY TWO TRIES under Kubiak.
Who are the Texans' peers? The Colts, Jags, and Titans? Or, is it the Lions,
Rams, Bills, and Buccanneers? When Kubiak is here, it's the latter. I'd
prefer the former.
noxiousdog
Rookie
You've got to be kidding me.
In four years Capers was 28 games under .500 with Texans. 28!
Kubiak would have to lose 23 games in a row to reach that futility.
o.k., so Kubiak is better than Capers....and your point?
I was comparing the 2004 Texans to the 2009 Texans, since comprehension does not seem to be an integral parting of reading skills.
__________________
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
~ William Arthur Ward
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Not only that but the standard of excellence is all skewed. For many supporting him, small amounts of success, despite the record is good enough. Next step...winning record and maybe some playoff fun. Whereas most teams in the NFL are making changes, etc for one goal..post-season and a SB run. Maybe the Capers era burned too many people and therefore thinking big is a stretch but it is a poor reflection on your views if having more talent and looking good getting to .500 is worthy of praise and more time. As I've mentioned 10 times, kill the Boys and J. Jones if you will but I will never rag on the standard....playoffs and SB or bust. Thus a coach with a winning record on the hot seat. It is why many coaches don't get the leash that they have here. I remember before the season a majority of people were saying..."expectations high..playoffs." Yet now they have dumbed them down to account for.............what?
Joe Texan
Inducted 04
All you Soap carriers need to take a bath. We lost Owen and lost 4 games, We were less that a touchdown away from winning the 4 games. Would Owen have had a touchdown in those games, I say yes and then we win and are a lock in the playoffs. You fairweather Soap Stars need to really take a look in the mirror and tell yourselfs that we need our starting players to win football games. Chester was injured early and he has been a starter from day one. He is gone and the other starting guard is gone and Meyers true colors come out and our running game stinks. It really makes me wonder if you guys with the soap are reallly Texan fans or are you cowboy fans or do you just not know anything about the NFL.
MUSSOP YOUR ON TOP OF THE LIST
MUSSOP YOUR ON TOP OF THE LIST
Where do you figure they would finish if the Colts lost Clark?
Hell even when we had a 17 point lead against Indy I didnt expect this team to win. This is the most Jeckle and Hyde team I have ever seen. You litterally never know whos going to show up from half to half much less game to game. Thats what bothers me, the inconsistency.
Even though we dominated Seattle on the score board if you really look at the game we Jeckle and Hyded from one half to the next. That is a reflection of poor coaching anyway you spin it. Couple that with all the poor in game decisions and personell decisions and game management decisions Kubik has made and its crystal clear to me that this team needs a new leader.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
So the Texans are the only team that has to have an injury free team to do well? You know most teams lose players at some point? You really are one of the least knowledgable fans I've ever met. Your comments are just inane. I don't think, I KNOW you know nothing about the NFL. So how can you account for an undefeated team having this on defense:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/091201&sportCat=nfl
Didn't the Texans keep 3 TEs and guys like Casey so they could plug them in and do pretty well?
noxiousdog
Rookie
I certainly don't comprehend the purpose of such a meaningless comparison.
noxiousdog
Rookie
3 of their 4 losses came when he was out. Owen Daniels is still not a good excuse for the season. I'd blame the o-line injuries and Kris Brown turning into a buffoon before Owen.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
Yeah 10-6 season and then a superbowl win gives you time to fix things. I think it's pretty obvious where the Steelers deficiencies are, OL. Tomlin has said as much that changes are coming in the off-season. I expect to see the OC and OL coach fired and them make draft moves and maybe some FA moves to resolve the line. Might even bring back Russ Grim in some capacity if possible.
They call that accountability. Some I dearly wish Kubiak would've learned with his coaching staff prior to the start of the year.
At worst right now? 9-4.
Ok forget the fact that this year they didn't have Marvin Harrison and Anthony Gonzalez has been out. Oh yeah Bob Sanders too. They've had two pretty much nobodies step up in Garcon and Collie and do good jobs.
Point is they draft well and have a system that's established where you can insert a player and have his strengths maximized.
I know its easy to point to Peyton, but give Caldwell some credit this team hasn't missed a beat.
Your post reflect that of a glorified cheerleader. You need to put down your pom poms if you want to be taken seriously. You bring nothing to the conversation but RA RA talk. Even when you try and put some something with substance in youre post it ends up being conjecture and fantasy followed by childish insults.
Until you actually have an intelligent well thought out football take I dont think you should be questioning anyone elses football knowledge. Even 15year olds on this board are capable of insightfull post which is more than I can say about you. Maybe you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself if you are really intellectually capable of not making yourself look like a bableing fool. My bet is no!
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
I voted no. The decision making is just too painful.
