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Kubes on the hotseat????

Kubiak is on the hot seat to the superbowl!!!

Kubiak aint going anywhere even with a losing record.

Hooray for you!! Kubiak hasn't even produced a winning season yet he is destined for the Super Bowl....whatever.

It's good to see that in the same post you talk about Gary going to the Super Bowl you then point out that even if he loses, he is keeping his job.

I really don't know what Kubiak has done to earn such blind loyalty even amidst a losing canvas of work. I just don't see it. If he wasn't from Houston would you be saying the same thing?

And as for Spec pointing out that I wanted Kubiak run after 5 games last year, damn straight I did. And you act like 8-8 with a bunch of wins vs. bad teams and teams with nothing to play for somehow validates your fanaticism of god King Gary Kubiak? Give me a break, dude.

The dude hasn't exactly invented cold fusion and he isn't proven so why the blind loyalty? In most games that are big or have any sort of implications towards success, they fall FLAT on their face. have you not watched the same games as me? Do you have a reality filter installed on your television? cmon now.

There have been embarassing losses in just about any meaningful game yet Kubiak somehow has this inate divine right towards greatness. some of the arguments are just so sad and pathetic. All some of us fans are asking for is some objectivity and reality. How about having it be a head coach's responsibility for putting together a quality defensive staff. How about we make that a prerequisite. I don't think that is asking too much. The dude hired from within!! cmon Gary. That was just stupid and is inviting disaster and is the reason he is on the HOT SEAT.

I hope we are wrong but if your an offensive head coach and you can't find a quality defensive coach to lead your defense, you probably aren't going to be a head coach long...unless your team is owned by one of the Sunshine Club. hopefully McNair revoked his membership after the Care Bear Coddle-Fest that was going on during our franchises' infancy.

Sorry about the rant, I just can't believe how some people are so damn carebear...
 
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My point is that you can't tell if they got significantly better or worse, going by their W-L record. All you can say is that they won more/less games...

They should get rid of those misleading won/loss records and name teams into the playoffs. I'd rather watch the great 4-12 teams than the bad 12-4 teams. I'm not even going to mention the powerful 8-8 team that gets overlooked every year. Well, two years anyway.

They could call the system the Better Championship System* and take into account strength of schedule and stuff. It would legitimize the Super Bowl.

*BCS for short.
 
If you really want to know why I think of a sunshine club, read on.

Personnaly I started considering some small set (not all) of the optimists to be in some sort of "sunshine club" last year in a conversation in a lenghty thread. It was shortly after the three game win streak that included wins over two very bad teams. I didn't appreciate being talked down to because I "couldn't see the rightness" of the team finishing with eleven, maybe even twelve wins. I was struck that a select group of posters seemed to believe with a religious fervor and just wanted to enlighten my poor, ignorant soul. As now, I was told I was encumbered by opinions based on past Texans performance. If I could just believe in someone else's vision I too could be right.

I was even given proof by way of a list of the remaining schedule with little Ws by most of the team names! Somehow I still doubted.

Some optimists can make persuasive, factual arguments. The sunshine club to me are those that know the Texans are on the upswing because they are the hometown team, and as such every action can, and must be, spun as being right and further proof the Texans have multiple Super Bowl wins lined up in the near future.

The sunshine club frequently use arguments that boil down to circular logic: the Texans are building the right way; it is the right way because that is how the Texans are building.

My sunshine club has just a handful of members - a lot of the people complaining about the term aren't even on my list. I don't mind seeing opinions contrary to mine - usually :) Sometimes they may even change my mind. Implying I'm wrong because I haven't seen the light isn't a big winner with me though.

=====

More succinctly, I consider the sunshine club those who can't distinguish between their own beliefs and knowledge, and therefore consider opposing ideas ignorance.


Point taken.
 
Point taken.


I really don't have a list. It is more a type of post than type of poster. That being said, there are a few posters that consistently take that type of stance...

Maybe I do have a list, albeit informal. :)
 
Lighten up, Francis.

I am light. And I've seen the light. After their fifth straight and finest 8-8 season, the Texans make the playoffs as a wild card and win the Super Bowl in 2012. Other teams see the rightness of it and start throwing games at the end of the year to achieve a harmonious 8-8 record.


I'd like to teach the world to sing
In perfect harmony
I'd like to hold it in my arms
And keep it company.
...
 
If you really want to know why I think of a sunshine club, read on.

Personnaly I started considering some small set (not all) of the optimists to be in some sort of "sunshine club" last year in a conversation in a lenghty thread. It was shortly after the three game win streak that included wins over two very bad teams. I didn't appreciate being talked down to because I "couldn't see the rightness" of the team finishing with eleven, maybe even twelve wins. I was struck that a select group of posters seemed to believe with a religious fervor and just wanted to enlighten my poor, ignorant soul. As now, I was told I was encumbered by opinions based on past Texans performance. If I could just believe in someone else's vision I too could be right.

I was even given proof by way of a list of the remaining schedule with little Ws by most of the team names! Somehow I still doubted.

Some optimists can make persuasive, factual arguments. The sunshine club to me are those that know the Texans are on the upswing because they are the hometown team, and as such every action can, and must be, spun as being right and further proof the Texans have multiple Super Bowl wins lined up in the near future.

The sunshine club frequently use arguments that boil down to circular logic: the Texans are building the right way; it is the right way because that is how the Texans are building.

My sunshine club has just a handful of members - a lot of the people complaining about the term aren't even on my list. I don't mind seeing opinions contrary to mine - usually :) Sometimes they may even change my mind. Implying I'm wrong because I haven't seen the light isn't a big winner with me though.

=====

More succinctly, I consider the sunshine club those who can't distinguish between their own beliefs and knowledge, and therefore consider opposing ideas ignorance.

Man, I liked you better when you'd post brief, cryptic messages on here that I'd spend half-a-day looking up the meaning of words and the little cultural nuances that you used to make yor points. I am glad you took the time to write out specifically what you feel, which leads me to this:

Nobody has to convince you of anything. Likewise, you don't have to convince anybody of anything. I think you've taken things a bit personally or maybe way too seriously, as if you're being attacked or not being understood better. Nobody can take anything from you or force you to see things their way.

Timeline of my thinking on Kubiak and the team: I personally started off thinking the hiring of Kubiak was going to mean fast success. When it slowed down to a crawl, at the first of last season, I was tired of the slow pace he had established. Even during the wins vs. Cincy and Detroit (check my posts) I was grumpy and virtually impossible to please--Those two wins did nothing for me. Nada. But the second half of the season is being written off by the rain cloud club. Those wins were, IMO, a shift in this team's persona.

I loved the off-season even more, basically because they didn't reach for the next Todd Wade or Ahman Green and then shove it down our throats like it was the biggest and bestest signing of all time and would cure our ills forever and ever. This off-season, and the draft, was very strategic and very disciplined. There is a sense of real momentum, for a change. Not the trivial, pseduo-momentum we are accustomed to: A win in the last game of a season.

But it makes no difference to you guys. I've personally gone from being too trustworthy too soon, to thinking Kubiak was going down with the ship, to now having what I feel is a more balanced view of where things are. I think a lot of you guys have not come out of your funk, and there's one guy in particular who can only gripe and scream that the sky is falling all the time.

And I don't think it's a balanced view for a lot of you to sit here and piss and moan about bad things that haven't happened yet. You do it under the disguise of being "the concerned fan" who just "wants what's best for the team," but you rain cloud guys are trying just as hard to ram your own point(s) down people's throats. It's a give-and-take relationship on opposing views, isn't it? Like I said before: Message boarders tend to pick a stance and they defend it like it's the Alamo all over again.

This is a place for the expression of ideas, and people can pick those ideas up and examine them and comment on them, or they can leave them on the floor and refuse to pick them up.

At the end of the day, makes no matter what any of us "think"...because their are wealthy, powerful people in the Texans office who make decisions with a decidedly different approach than probably any of us would employ ourselves.

We're just here to talk about things. I stated way back earlier in this thread that I feared this would turn into the dreaded "fan, not a fan" debate. Looks like I get some things right some of the times.

I enjoy your posts, and you've helped me several times to better express what I was thinking. I think this board has quality posters all the way around, even if I don't get along with some of them. Momma always said "Son, you're gonna' have to face the fact that you can't make everybody like you. Some people are gonna' dislike you just because they want to dislike you." Of course, my mom was Eva Braun, so what do I know? :tiphat:

There ARE signs that this defense is going to improve: Our dline, especially TJ and Okoye, are going to be less reactionary and more up-the-field and shooting gaps like they should have been all along. And, we now see that Reeves says the 10-yard cushion by DBs will not be the norm anymore. Whether that fleshes itself out on the field or not, is yet to be seen, but you can see the commitment is there to NOT do what we had been doing under RS.

Off-topic: Love the movie quotes, Kaiser!
 
Hey - somebody asked and I answered.

However, after getting chided by Kaiser and GP I'll make a change. While not abnegating long posts, I will try to return to my crypto-socio quips.
 
Hey - somebody asked and I answered.

However, after getting chided by Kaiser and GP I'll make a change. While not abnegating long posts, I will try to return to my crypto-socio quips.

LOL. Crypto-socio. That's a clever moniker.

Socio-economic.

Geo-political.

Crypto-socio.
 
I am light. And I've seen the light. After their fifth straight and finest 8-8 season, the Texans make the playoffs as a wild card and win the Super Bowl in 2012. Other teams see the rightness of it and start throwing games at the end of the year to achieve a harmonious 8-8 record.


I'd like to teach the world to sing
In perfect harmony
I'd like to hold it in my arms
And keep it company.
...

So you think there is no way for the Texans to have a winning season? I guess I am a member of the sunshine club because I am always optimistic this time of the year for my Texans.

I'm a cynic, not a pessimist.
 
So you think there is no way for the Texans to have a winning season? I guess I am a member of the sunshine club because I am always optimistic this time of the year for my Texans.

I'm a cynic, not a pessimist.

I thought it was clear that post was a joke - "I've seen the light"; "harmonious 8-8 record"; the Coke song, etc.

In fact, this is the first year of the Kubiak Experience that I expect a winning season. The easier schedule alone, with no increase in the level of play, should make them 9-7. I consider anything less than 10-6 a disappointment.

Of course, I was a pessimist the last two years because I didn't tout a winning record...
 
Kubiac and Smith are on the right track with the Texans. They can't fill all the holes every year, and every year presents new problems in terms of players, injuries, schedules, contracts, ect. ect.

I think this will be a good year for the Texans, their fans, and Kubiac and his staff. :)
 
This thread's taken an interesting turn.

I've noticed that some are pretty quick to jump on the ones that question Kubiak or Smith (I'll never call them Smithiak.) There's a perception that if you say anything negative about the organization, that you aren't a good fan.

I guess a lot of people have agendas. Mine is to get to the playoffs. I don't care who starts, sits, gets fired or gets hired to make that happen.

Until that happens, it's open season on anyone.
 
This thread's taken an interesting turn.

I've noticed that some are pretty quick to jump on the ones that question Kubiak or Smith (I'll never call them Smithiak.) There's a perception that if you say anything negative about the organization, that you aren't a good fan.

I guess a lot of people have agendas. Mine is to get to the playoffs. I don't care who starts, sits, gets fired or gets hired to make that happen.

Until that happens, it's open season on anyone.

I think the sticking point, for me at least, is that the team is not even in training camp yet...and we're already calculating what has to be done in order for a coach to stay the coach when this season hasn't even been played yet. I realize it's all just message board chatter, and more people should realize that too.

Just seems a bit premature, as well as anxiety-driven: We all want the playoffs, but realistically are we even realllllly a team built and ready to go deep through the playoffs yet?

I expect playoffs. 9-7 is the lowest this team should go, under all the situations and circumstances we see before us.
 
To me it is amazing how many folks assume a "winner's mantle" if their fave team is winning. This is what I call being on a band wagon. The end score does not always reflect the efforts of the teams and as another posted, I'd rather watch a well played loss than a sloppy win. A player, coach or owner (are you listening Mark Cuban?) is open to fair criticism and the person doing the evaluation should not be attacked, but are then opening themselves to fair criticism. Another odd thing is how valued and important our individual opinion becomes when we buy a ticket or jersey or just sit at home and watch. I love to listen to radio personalities dog a player, coach or owner and then when that person is on the telephone with the radio personality; the latter takes a much softer approach.
 
I think the sticking point, for me at least, is that the team is not even in training camp yet...and we're already calculating what has to be done in order for a coach to stay the coach when this season hasn't even been played yet. I realize it's all just message board chatter, and more people should realize that too.

Just seems a bit premature, as well as anxiety-driven: We all want the playoffs, but realistically are we even realllllly a team built and ready to go deep through the playoffs yet?

I expect playoffs. 9-7 is the lowest this team should go, under all the situations and circumstances we see before us.

I guess the reason why I ever chimed in on this thread is because I don't think it's an unreasonable question. If Marty Schottenheimer can get fired after going 14-2, then why shouldn't our guy be held to a tough standard?

I don't expect a run deep into the playoffs by any means. I just want them to get there. 4 years is long enough by any owner's standards.

If I think the 3rd-string deep snapper is an obstacle, then I'll call him out too.

.......there goes lunchtime......back to work now.
 
Bad example - firing Schottenheimer was dumb.

Okay then pick any coach that ever made the playoffs and got fired the same season.

The point is that most other NFL organizations give a lot less rope than we do for guys that don't progress. But I guess that means we're doing things the "right way".
 
Okay then pick any coach that ever made the playoffs and got fired the same season.

The point is that most other NFL organizations give a lot less rope than we do for guys that don't progress. But I guess that means we're doing things the "right way".

I haven't responded in here but I agree with you up to a point. I think the Texans have made a habit of being the good guys and sticking with a gameplan to a fault sometimes....see DC. I'm not saying Kubes should be fired. I like the guy. But if this season is another mediocre season and he shows that he still has some problems with managing the game, then I think he is definitely on the hotseat. I don't think just firing guys makes you a better franchise but I think at some point there is a sheet or get off the pot menatality that has to hit you. I think with the parity and meteoric rise and fall of teams these days that it makes it hard to watch a team just plug along year after year and try and do things in a very slug like progressive manner.
 
Well, we could always get the Bud Adams syndrome, for most of his NFL tenure, he went through a crapload of coaches. He also fired a very popular Bum Phillips with an 11-5 record after Bum made it to the playoffs a third consecutive time.

But Wait! Hasn't Bud been somewhat successful sticking with the same coach now for many years? Even BUD ADAMS can learn...Keep Hope Alive! ;)
 
The point is that most other NFL organizations give a lot less rope than we do for guys that don't progress. But I guess that means we're doing things the "right way".

You're right...

Pittsburg should have fired The Chin way before he had a chance to retire after winning the superbowl...Fisher....Don't even get me started...Dude is just a complete failure....

I don't think that you can point to other teams firing their coaches and use it as a guiding light. What other teams do really has no bearing...Plenty of teams have fired coaches only to get worse...But I guess since other teams are doing it, it makes it right?

Fire a coach when a team is clearly regressing and is no longer responding to him...

All of this record stuff is really meaningless at the end of the day...


How much blame should Kubiak take for Sage completely melting down and giving away a game? If we win that game we are 9-7

Was that one possible win really the difference between Kubes being on the hotseat and him not being on the hot seat..

Lets say we win that game and don't sleep walk against Oakland (a team that I think we are clearly better than)....that'd put us a 10-6

I'm not sure how you look at the win/loss record and definitively say a coach is on the hotseat...

If that were the case, Kubes should have already been fired...Dudes had multiple chances to crack .500 and has yet to do so...

I mean...If the record is the only thing we're looking at and other circumstances don't matter, why shouldn't kubes have been on the hotseat after going 6-10 his first year here?
 
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You're right...

Pittsburg should have fired The Chin way before he had a chance to retire after winning the superbowl...Fisher....Don't even get me started...Dude is just a complete failure....

I don't think that you can point to other teams firing their coaches and use it as a guiding light. What other teams do really has no bearing...

Fire a coach when a team is clearly regressing and is no longer responding to him...

All of this record stuff is really meaningless at the end of the day...


How much blame should Kubiak take for Sage completely melting down and giving away a game? If we win that game we are 9-7

Was that one possible win really the difference between Kubes being on the hotseat and him not being on the hot seat..

Lets say we win that game and don't sleep walk against Oakland (a team that I think we are clearly better than)....that'd put us a 10-6
I'm not sure how you look at the win/loss record and definitively say a coach is on the hotseat...

If that were the case, Kubes should have already been fired...Dudes had multiple chances to crack .500 and has yet to do so...

I mean...If the record is the only thing we're looking at and other circumstances don't matter, why shouldn't kubes have been on the hotseat after going 6-10 his first year here?


But all of these what ifs are what gets coaches fired. You can't say "what if" because many people think that the "luck" or plays you pointed out happen on the positive side due to coaching and preparation. Under some people's theory a coach should just be allowed to stick around as long as he wants if a play here and there makes them .500 yearly and if he is a good guy and because some teams have had success in the history of the league not firing guys. Overall if other teams keep passing you, then you have to look at how you are doing business. Again, just playing devils advocate. I'd expect a good year this year.
 
The point is that most other NFL organizations give a lot less rope than we do for guys that don't progress. But I guess that means we're doing things the "right way".

The 2-14 Texans were a HORRIBLE team. They were quite frankly lucky to have won those 2 games. When Kubes came here he knew that he had a major mess to cleanup. We all did. But do you really get how bad the team was. Let me ask you this: without looking it up, how many players are still here that were here under the previous regime?

The answer is 4. Andre Johnson, Chester Pitts, Kris Brown, and Dunta Robinson are it. Starting a team with a stud WR, solid Guard, good kicker, and solid CB is not exactly having a lot.

So, in a typical 53 man roster scenario Kubes kept 1 wr, 1 OG, 1 CB, and 1 K. Thats it. 93% of the roster is completely different. Think about that number for a moment. 93%. Also remember that Kubes was left with giant contracts for poor players as well, so he couldn't go crazy in FA. Quite frankly it is remarkable how good our team looks in such a short amount of time.
 
But all of these what ifs are what gets coaches fired. You can't say "what if" because many people think that the "luck" or plays you pointed out happen on the positive side due to coaching and preparation. Under some people's theory a coach should just be allowed to stick around as long as he wants if a play here and there makes them .500 yearly and if he is a good guy and because some teams have had success in the history of the league not firing guys. Overall if other teams keep passing you, then you have to look at how you are doing business. Again, just playing devils advocate. I'd expect a good year this year.

Which leads directly into the last part of my post you quoted.

If we are not going to take into account the "what ifs", then shouldn't Kubiak have been fired after his first season for going 6-10, or atleast his second season after going 7-9 ?

If we are going to act like drones with computers for brains and just take the wins at face value and not take into account other factors, shouldn't Kubes have been gone a long time ago?

I mean, dude has yet to break .500 or field a defense that ranks in the top half of the leauge....Dude is medium garbage according to the raw numbers...
 
The 2-14 Texans were a HORRIBLE team. They were quite frankly lucky to have won those 2 games. When Kubes came here he knew that he had a major mess to cleanup. We all did. But do you really get how bad the team was. Let me ask you this: without looking it up, how many players are still here that were here under the previous regime?

The answer is 4. Andre Johnson, Chester Pitts, Kris Brown, and Dunta Robinson are it. Starting a team with a stud WR, solid Guard, good kicker, and solid CB is not exactly having a lot.

So, in a typical 53 man roster scenario Kubes kept 1 wr, 1 OG, 1 CB, and 1 K. Thats it. 93% of the roster is completely different. Think about that number for a moment. 93%. Also remember that Kubes was left with giant contracts for poor players as well, so he couldn't go crazy in FA. Quite frankly it is remarkable how good our team looks in such a short amount of time.
Not to detract from your point because its a great one... but don't forget about Travis Johnson!! That's 5!
 
The 2-14 Texans were a HORRIBLE team. They were quite frankly lucky to have won those 2 games. When Kubes came here he knew that he had a major mess to cleanup. We all did. But do you really get how bad the team was. Let me ask you this: without looking it up, how many players are still here that were here under the previous regime?

The answer is 4. Andre Johnson, Chester Pitts, Kris Brown, and Dunta Robinson are it. Starting a team with a stud WR, solid Guard, good kicker, and solid CB is not exactly having a lot.

So, in a typical 53 man roster scenario Kubes kept 1 wr, 1 OG, 1 CB, and 1 K. Thats it. 93% of the roster is completely different. Think about that number for a moment. 93%. Also remember that Kubes was left with giant contracts for poor players as well, so he couldn't go crazy in FA. Quite frankly it is remarkable how good our team looks in such a short amount of time.

Add that on to how many who weren't at the point of retirement, are starting somewhere in the NFL, much less still in the league at all. I don't think Kubiak is on the hot seat and won't get fired unless this team regresses badly. I do know that there are now expectations for the team and staff now.
 
Which leads directly into the last part of my post you quoted.

If we are not going to take into account the "what ifs", then shouldn't Kubiak have been fired after his first season for going 6-10, or atleast his second season after going 7-9 ?

If we are going to act like drones with computers for brains and just take the wins at face value and not take into account other factors, shouldn't Kubes have been gone a long time ago?

I mean, dude has yet to break .500 or field a defense that ranks in the top half of the leauge....Dude is medium garbage according to the raw numbers...

But that isn't what people are doing. They aren't being drones to the record. They are actually taking into account that every year since the team was garbage they have seen some improvement. Last years 8-8 was definitely more competitive than the year befores 8-8. At Year 4 there should now be expectations. Playoffs. I'm not saying he should get canned if they fail but at some point it becomes a DC like moment and you have to start thinking...."is it the next year..." "well what about this next year." You can't keep thinking like that. There has to be a moment where you think you arrived. .500 yearly with some "what ifs" isn't it. All I was saying above was that Mr. White had some points and that the Texans shouldn't fall into the trap of acting like an expansion team that has more time to get over the hump. The hump is now.
 
But that isn't what people are doing. They aren't being drones to the record. They are actually taking into account that every year since the team was garbage they have seen some improvement.

No in this thread...

All I keep seeing is talk about two str8 8-8 seasons with little regard as to how those identical records were achieved. I've seen it pretty much stated several times that the record is basically the bottom line.

Last years 8-8 was definitely more competitive than the year befores 8-8.

Agreed.

At Year 4 there should now be expectations. Playoffs. I'm not saying he should get canned if they fail but at some point it becomes a DC like moment and you have to start thinking...."is it the next year..." "well what about this next year." You can't keep thinking like that. There has to be a moment where you think you arrived. .500 yearly with some "what ifs" isn't it. All I was saying above was that Mr. White had some points and that the Texans shouldn't fall into the trap of acting like an expansion team that has more time to get over the hump. The hump is now.

Agreed again. Except I don't think that is what Mr. White or others are saying at all.

My point is that W/L record shouldn't be the only determining factor, and it seems like we're in agreeance on that front.
 
My point is that W/L record shouldn't be the only determining factor, and it seems like we're in agreeance on that front.

I think most people would agree on that.

I think Kubiak will be on the hotseat if we don't make the playoffs next year, even if we go 8-8 or 9-7 and don't make them. I don't see him getting fired after this next year unless we are alot worse than last year which I don't see happening unless we suffer serious injuries.
 
I haven't responded in here but I agree with you up to a point. I think the Texans have made a habit of being the good guys and sticking with a gameplan to a fault sometimes....see DC. I'm not saying Kubes should be fired. I like the guy. But if this season is another mediocre season and he shows that he still has some problems with managing the game, then I think he is definitely on the hotseat. I don't think just firing guys makes you a better franchise but I think at some point there is a sheet or get off the pot menatality that has to hit you. I think with the parity and meteoric rise and fall of teams these days that it makes it hard to watch a team just plug along year after year and try and do things in a very slug like progressive manner.
See, i think it is a matter of definition. I do not see last two seasons as mediocre.
 
And I think some people are discounting the record too much.

Say there is a scenario where the Texans had X amount of improvement between the the two 8-8 and years. Say they have the same improvement each of the next two and go 9-7, 9-7. This scenario is in line with the comments of those who say record is overrated.

Should any changes be made? At that rate of improvement the team would have several pro-bowlers, a running game, a passing game, and a defense. What is missing? I see the following options:

1) The fans are over estimating the amount of improvement being made.
2) The coaching is holding the team back.
3) Various spins - the schedule is too hard; no one could predict Schaub will keep getting hurt, refs, etc.
4) There is nothing wrong - well coached, very talented teams are sometimes mediocre year after year.


To me that record is saying that something in the talent level of the team or coaching is being overrated.
 
And I think some people are discounting the record too much.

Say there is a scenario where the Texans had X amount of improvement between the the two 8-8 and years. Say they have the same improvement each of the next two and go 9-7, 9-7. This scenario is in line with the comments of those who say record is overrated.

Should any changes be made? At that rate of improvement the team would have several pro-bowlers, a running game, a passing game, and a defense. What is missing? I see the following options:

1) The fans are over estimating the amount of improvement being made.
2) The coaching is holding the team back.
3) Various spins - the schedule is too hard; no one could predict Schaub will keep getting hurt, refs, etc.
4) There is nothing wrong - well coached, very talented teams are sometimes mediocre year after year.


To me that record is saying that something in the talent level of the team or coaching is being overrated.


Not to mention, with this scenerio, it would be 10 years before we were at 13-3, 12 years to pass 14-2, 14 years to get past 15-1, then at years 15 and 16 we could be undefeated....given the players weren't too old and we regressed at some point in time with the same ratio as we improved.
I hope nobody here would be willing to wait another decade to see 13-3 and beyond.
 
And I think some people are discounting the record too much.

All I'm saying, is that the record shouldn't be the end all be all. If we went 8-8 in Capers final year, but it was obvious that the players quit on him in the last 2 or three games of the year.... He should be fired. If that was the case last year, Kubiak should be fired.

If we start off this season, looking as unprepared as we did to start the '08 season, then Kubiak should be on the hotseat, regardless if we're 4-1, or 1-4.
 
I just decided that since we have a sunshine club, and a rain cloud club, that we are marginalizing a sector of fans here...so without further delay, it is my pleasure to announce that we are now accepting enrollment into the partly cloudy club.

Benefits of being a member of the partly cloudy club:

1. There's a slight chance of rain...

2. But there's also a chance for sunshine, so you'll eventually be right somehow.

3. You get to look at the cloud shapes and decide what each cloud looks like.

I think I'm joining the partly cloudy club.
 
I just decided that since we have a sunshine club, and a rain cloud club, that we are marginalizing a sector of fans here...so without further delay, it is my pleasure to announce that we are now accepting enrollment into the partly cloudy club.

Benefits of being a member of the partly cloudy club:

1. There's a slight chance of rain...

2. But there's also a chance for sunshine, so you'll eventually be right somehow.

3. You get to look at the cloud shapes and decide what each cloud looks like.

I think I'm joining the partly cloudy club.

From a partly cloudy fan...rep.
 
I just decided that since we have a sunshine club, and a rain cloud club, that we are marginalizing a sector of fans here...so without further delay, it is my pleasure to announce that we are now accepting enrollment into the partly cloudy club.

Benefits of being a member of the partly cloudy club:

1. There's a slight chance of rain...

2. But there's also a chance for sunshine, so you'll eventually be right somehow.

3. You get to look at the cloud shapes and decide what each cloud looks like.

I think I'm joining the partly cloudy club.

I am going for the partly sunny club myself.
 
I just decided that since we have a sunshine club, and a rain cloud club, that we are marginalizing a sector of fans here...so without further delay, it is my pleasure to announce that we are now accepting enrollment into the partly cloudy club.

Benefits of being a member of the partly cloudy club:

1. There's a slight chance of rain...

2. But there's also a chance for sunshine, so you'll eventually be right somehow.

3. You get to look at the cloud shapes and decide what each cloud looks like.

I think I'm joining the partly cloudy club.

LOL. I may have to change my party affiliation.

edit: damn, and I can't give GP any more rep right now.
 
I just decided that since we have a sunshine club, and a rain cloud club, that we are marginalizing a sector of fans here...so without further delay, it is my pleasure to announce that we are now accepting enrollment into the partly cloudy club.

Benefits of being a member of the partly cloudy club:

1. There's a slight chance of rain...

2. But there's also a chance for sunshine, so you'll eventually be right somehow.

3. You get to look at the cloud shapes and decide what each cloud looks like.

I think I'm joining the partly cloudy club.

Whatever drugs you're taking, share please. I must admit, I spit my coffee on this one, thanks :) <sorry, couldn't rep ya, ya know the dumb rules!>
 
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Head coaches get too much blame and take too much credit.

/endthread

Mike Smith and Tony Sparano disagree with you. ;)

The Falcons were in a weak division. I give credit to their run game, and to the new QB who stabilized that position. Out of the two teams you mentioned, the Falcons are easily the better team. But their division existed of pretty weak teams, can't we agree on that? No comparison to the other divisions.

And the Dolphins' schedule was a joke. They caught a Brady-less Patriots team, as well as what I deem to be a lot of sub-par teams last season. They couldn't beat us, so that says something.

I think you missed my point. HCs should deserve credit for taking bad teams and turning them around to be playoff teams within a year. Regardless of the circumstances, the point of it all is SCOREBOARD.

Saying that we beat Miami last year so they are not a good team is weak. We also beat the Panthers and took the Patriots to OT the year that they both went to the Super Bowl. What does that mean? Jack squat. We ended with 7-9 and they went to the big game. Any given Sunday, but at the end of the day it comes down to SCOREBOARD for the season.
 
I think you missed my point. HCs should deserve credit for taking bad teams and turning them around to be playoff teams within a year. Regardless of the circumstances, the point of it all is SCOREBOARD.

Saying that we beat Miami last year so they are not a good team is weak. We also beat the Panthers and took the Patriots to OT the year that they both went to the Super Bowl. What does that mean? Jack squat. We ended with 7-9 and they went to the big game. Any given Sunday, but at the end of the day it comes down to SCOREBOARD for the season.

If the scoreboard is all that matters Kubes should have been gone after the 7-9 season. Two consecutive seasons of losing football...4 consecutive non-winning seasons...

Obviously there are other factors that need to be taken into account besides the W/L column...

Why not fire Kubes after going 6-10 his first season here? Im pretty sure everyone could come up with a list of reasons...Some could even spin that 6-10 record into something marvelous...

Of course at some point the excuses should become less, but the pittsburg Steelers didn't build a perennial challenger by coach hoping...I'm much more interested in how the team plays vs. what the final score is, because I know that if the team is playing well and they look disciplined the wins will come...

If we are using gimmicks to win games, and win despite looking terrible, I would still question Kubiak as a coach...
 
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And I think some people are discounting the record too much.

Say there is a scenario where the Texans had X amount of improvement between the the two 8-8 and years. Say they have the same improvement each of the next two and go 9-7, 9-7. This scenario is in line with the comments of those who say record is overrated.

Should any changes be made? At that rate of improvement the team would have several pro-bowlers, a running game, a passing game, and a defense. What is missing? I see the following options:

1) The fans are over estimating the amount of improvement being made.
2) The coaching is holding the team back.
3) Various spins - the schedule is too hard; no one could predict Schaub will keep getting hurt, refs, etc.
4) There is nothing wrong - well coached, very talented teams are sometimes mediocre year after year.

To me that record is saying that something in the talent level of the team or coaching is being overrated.

Yes ultimately the record has to be factored in significantly, but at the same time so does how you get there. Start off the season 7-1 clicking on all cylinders with a team clearly possessing the talent to win and all the sudden go into the ditch on a series of coaching mistakes and a team that appears to quit to finish 9-7 and maybe you don't give the coach another chance at all. Lose AJ for 4 weeks at the beginning of the season along with Mario for an overlapping 6 - start the season 2-6 and then come out 9-7 and I doubt a hotseat is even involved in McNair's mind.

If the scoreboard is all that matters Kubes should have been gone after the 7-9 season. Two consecutive seasons of losing football...4 consecutive non-winning seasons.....

The Texans never went 7-9 under Kubiak. 1st year (coming off Capers' 2-14) 6-10, 2nd year 8-8, 3rd year 8-8.
 
If the scoreboard is all that matters Kubes should have been gone after the 7-9 season. Two consecutive seasons of losing football...4 consecutive non-winning seasons...

Obviously there are other factors that need to be taken into account besides the W/L column...

Why not fire Kubes after going 6-10 his first season here? Im pretty sure everyone could come up with a list of reasons...Some could even spin that 6-10 record into something marvelous...

Of course at some point the excuses should become less, but the pittsburg Steelers didn't build a perennial challenger by coach hoping...I'm much more interested in how the team plays vs. what the final score is, because I know that if the team is playing well and they look disciplined the wins will come...

If we are using gimmicks to win games, and win despite looking terrible, I would still question Kubiak as a coach...

Huh? Talking about spinning wildly out of control! :mcnugget:

I was just messing with you that coaches should get some credit when they turn around crappy franchises for the playoffs within a year. They shouldn't get all of the credit, but they should get what's due (all things considered).

The rest of my take you quoted was directed at GP, who seems to be making excuses for the winning seasons that teams experienced. I'm not sure how that related to Kubiak, though.

The point of the NFL is to win games. That is the measure that owners, fans, and the media uses for all head coaches. The myriad intangibles not withstanding, it's about winning at the end of the day. Lose enough, and get a pink slip. Win enough, and get a contract extension. The win/loss column determines that course of events, not where your offense or defense was ranked or how happy you made your smile.

btw, I'm not advocating firing Kubiak. I think that judgement should be reserved until after this next season. He's got a lot riding on 2009, so in that regard, I would say there is some heat under his seat.
 
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