beerlover
Hall of Fame
I think it can’t be understated, Nick Caserio set up replacing Lamery Tunsil with a young, affordable, similar toolsy talent with veteran Cam Robinson to showcase his skill set and pass it on down to a higher ceiling LT.
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Josh Conerly Jr. vs Kelvin Banks Jr.
- Thread starter beerlover
- Start date
Tunsil pro day info from wiki:
| Height | Weight | Arm length | Hand span | Vertical jump | Broad jump | Bench press |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 6 ft 5 in (1.96 m) | 310 lb (141 kg) | 34+1⁄4 in (0.87 m) | 10 in (0.25 m) | 28+1⁄2 in (0.72 m) | 9 ft 3 in (2.82 m) | 34 reps |
| Values from NFL Combine.[37] Broad, Vertical and Bench from Ole Miss Pro Day.[38] |
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
Who has the strongest motor and work ethic?
Who's got "the JJ gene."
That's what I want out of all my draft picks.
I am ******* sick of dumb, lazy, self-defeating players on my favorite teams.
Who's got "the JJ gene."
That's what I want out of all my draft picks.
I am ******* sick of dumb, lazy, self-defeating players on my favorite teams.
Give me a top 5-10 LT.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Define top 5-10 LT?
Hell, I’d take serviceable, hardworking, relatively lesser penalized, team player on contract reflecting actual production.
Let’s say Caserio trades up with Cowboys (#12) to go get Banks. I don’t even think his best position is LT but could be heck of a OG. Anyway he would have to trade #25 & #89 (Washington from Tunsil trade) this year plus next year’s 2nd (Washington from Tunsil trade).
Substituting 3 starters for one and eventually, if Banks does convert into NFL LT, his second contract will be right back up in Tunsil neighborhood (30+mil). Giving up less than what Tunsil trade cost but still valuable draft capital when & where we need it.
Let Conerly fall into your laps or maybe give up one Tunsil pick (3rd this year) & only have to move up to #21 Steelers (who might still draft Sanders plus gain a third). Conerly is a LT, just needs to add strength and polish technique, heck he is probably starting after the bye week.
Intentions of this thread a bit more crystallized as we’re less than 24 hours until Texans are on the clock.
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One of the best 5-10 top LT's in the NFL. NFL guys disagree with this MB when it comes to Tunsil. The only reason Tunsil got let go was money. They needed to pay Stingley/Hunter/Petrie etc... That's why I wasn't against the Tunsil trade and he's about to get paid again by the Redskins. They obviously think more highly of Tunsil than this MB does.Define top 5-10 LT?
Hell, I’d take serviceable, hardworking, relatively lesser penalized, team player on contract reflecting actual production.
Let’s say Caserio trades up with Cowboys (#12) to go get Banks. I don’t even think his best position is LT but could be heck of a OG. Anyway he would have to trade #25 & #89 (Washington from Tunsil trade) this year plus next year’s 2nd (Washington from Tunsil trade).
Substituting 3 starters for one and eventually, if Banks does convert into NFL LT, his second contract will be right back up in Tunsil neighborhood (30+mil). Giving up less than what Tunsil trade cost but still valuable draft capital when & where we need it.
Let Conerly fall into your laps or maybe give up one Tunsil pick (3rd this year) & only have to move up to #21 Steelers (who might still draft Sanders plus gain a third). Conerly is a LT, just needs to add strength and polish technique, heck he is probably starting after the bye week.
Intentions of this thread a bit more crystallized as we’re less than 24 hours until Texans are on the clock.
The Texans need more guys that are top 5-10 in the NFL on their team, not less. BTW, I like Conerly because he's got the feet and can get to his landmarks on the 2nd level.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
If you want a center in this draft, you might have to trade back into the second round, not much depth in this class
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Sorry SB, it’s not all about the money. It’s more about culture, loving football and being there for your line mates. Some could set aside being most penalized OL, but they were freaking drive killers. Completely unacceptable
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Looks like Zabel will be taken earlier than expected but I would have selected him, specifically for CJ, like a Kelcie for remainder of their Texan careers.
If 10-12 false starts kills your teams offense then you didn't have much of an offense to begin with. Besides the Vikings game the false starts weren't that big of a deal.Sorry SB, it’s not all about the money. It’s more about culture, loving football and being there for your line mates. Some could set aside being most penalized OL, but they were freaking drive killers. Completely unacceptable
I expect Tunsil to be much better next yr because he will have better players around him than Green/Scruggs. Of course if he plays at a pro bowl or better level some (Not you) will jump through hoops explaining why he's playing better or say he's not playing better using some convoluted spreadsheet, when in truth he will be playing better because he's got better talent around him.
TheRealJoker V2
Veteran
Lots of excuses for Tunsil.
What excuses, he's a top 5/7 LT that had one bad game and I dont think aaveraging a false start a game (Which he didn't with Patterson at C) is a big deal, particularly when he was playing on a bad ankle. Obviously Peters/Quin agree with me. We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Booker,Jackson, Egbuka, Zabel. All swarm all day.
Porky
Hall of Fame
BS. I think money was part of it, but I’m not buying the narrative Nick is selling whatsoever. Of course, they aren’t going to run the bus over him in public, but if they wanted him and he was SWARM, you can be your sweet bippy they would find a way to fit his salary in. He became expandable because he’s not a culture fit.
Peters and Quin disagree with this post.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Remember several of those false starts cost them momentum in key drives that stalled and cost them a chance to win, maybe not exclusively but definitely in part. Heck I even remember Clowney having similar false starts that cost Texans games here and there.
DeMeco says we need to play clean football, hard enough to beat another NFL team, made harder if you gotta beat the refs too, but beating yourselves is a nail in the coffin
If a false start a game costs you games, you probably didn't deserve to win that game to begin with.Remember several of those false starts cost them momentum in key drives that stalled and cost them a chance to win, maybe not exclusively but definitely in part. Heck I even remember Clowney having similar false starts that cost Texans games here and there.
DeMeco says we need to play clean football, hard enough to beat another NFL team, made harder if you gotta beat the refs too, but beating yourselves is a nail in the coffin
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Tunsil false starting had become chronic issue, no ownership or remorse, that’s issue with me.
Conerly also started College career with false start issue, but he took accountability and fixed his issue.
Conerly himself wasn't willing to take the out his coach created for him. Speaking with media for the first time on Tuesday following the game, the sophomore cited nerves as the primary cause for his three false start flags.
"That was all me and just my anxiety being too high. I just really have to take a deep breath and calm down," he explained. "That's something I just have to clean up by myself. That's not on anybody else but me. I just really have to calm down and play my game and not think too much."
"Once I really noticed how much it was costing us, like every time I had a false start we had to punt on that drive, so how negatively I was affecting those drives I had to really get myself together," he said. "I did take ownership for it and apologized to all the guys. Being the left tackle and being a starter like that, I have to hold myself to a higher standard and I can't have such costly penalties like that."
Conerly seized the starting left tackle job in 2023 and never looked back. His sophomore campaign saw him allow just one sack across 540 pass-blocking snaps, earning All-Pac-12 honorable mention honors while helping quarterback Bo Nix to a conference Player of the Year season.
The 2024 season marked Conerly's arrival as an elite pass protector, as he anchored Oregon's offensive line during their undefeated regular season run to the College Football Playoff. The 6'4", 315-pound tackle emerged as one of college football's premier blindside protectors while showing steady improvement in the run game. His First-Team All-American campaign, highlighted by surrendering just nine total pressures all season, convinced him to forego his remaining eligibility and declare for the 2025 NFL Draft.
Conerly also started College career with false start issue, but he took accountability and fixed his issue.
Conerly himself wasn't willing to take the out his coach created for him. Speaking with media for the first time on Tuesday following the game, the sophomore cited nerves as the primary cause for his three false start flags.
"That was all me and just my anxiety being too high. I just really have to take a deep breath and calm down," he explained. "That's something I just have to clean up by myself. That's not on anybody else but me. I just really have to calm down and play my game and not think too much."
"Once I really noticed how much it was costing us, like every time I had a false start we had to punt on that drive, so how negatively I was affecting those drives I had to really get myself together," he said. "I did take ownership for it and apologized to all the guys. Being the left tackle and being a starter like that, I have to hold myself to a higher standard and I can't have such costly penalties like that."
Conerly seized the starting left tackle job in 2023 and never looked back. His sophomore campaign saw him allow just one sack across 540 pass-blocking snaps, earning All-Pac-12 honorable mention honors while helping quarterback Bo Nix to a conference Player of the Year season.
The 2024 season marked Conerly's arrival as an elite pass protector, as he anchored Oregon's offensive line during their undefeated regular season run to the College Football Playoff. The 6'4", 315-pound tackle emerged as one of college football's premier blindside protectors while showing steady improvement in the run game. His First-Team All-American campaign, highlighted by surrendering just nine total pressures all season, convinced him to forego his remaining eligibility and declare for the 2025 NFL Draft.
Every coach says that and they're right. If a team can't overcome a 5 yd penalty a game then that's not a championship quality team. IMHORemember several of those false starts cost them momentum in key drives that stalled and cost them a chance to win, maybe not exclusively but definitely in part. Heck I even remember Clowney having similar false starts that cost Texans games here and there.
DeMeco says we need to play clean football, hard enough to beat another NFL team, made harder if you gotta beat the refs too, but beating yourselves is a nail in the coffin
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Scoreboard Banks #9 overall Conerly #29. Yet give it three years and see what transpires. I did post wrong information, stated Conerly was only 20 when actually his birthdate is Nov 5th 2003. Do the math he’s actually 21. Still maturation is far from complete. Tell me who is in better situation? New Orleans, Kellen Moore HC/OC vs Kliff Zingsbury, Washington Commanders?
Matters more for QBs than O-linemen. Banks will start at LT day 1. Conerly will be the LT when Quinn gets tired of Tunsil.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Talk about two wildly divergent offensive philosophies and coaches.
I bet you 2 THINGS,
1. Quinn wont get tired of Tunsil protecting Daniels blindside for the next 5 yrs, provided Tunsil stays healthy.
2. Conerly is the Redskins starting RT next yr.
Is Conerly moving to RT or Coleman? I haven't paid attention to Washington or anyone else other than the Texans.
I've read Coleman LG/Conerly LT.
In two offseasons the Redskins have done what the Texans have spent a decade trying to do.
Tunsil/Coleman/Biadaz/Cosmi/Conerly, with Wylie/Allegretti/Herbig/Deiter in reserve.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Why? Just because Conerly is going to compete for the RT doesn't make him a future All-Pro, it doesn't even guarantee he won't still be a bust. Talk to me in two years and this can be a conversation based in something other than feelingsYeah, it burns. Let it sink in a little. It’s almost as if the Texans (what should have been to protect CJ Stroud, somehow flew off together to the East Coast to protect Jayden Daniels). Give us all a moment to pray
JWLCASPER
Waterboy
So offensive line is one position I won’t say I am nearly the expert on comparative to some other spots. But this discussion of Conerly and Ersery reminds me of how upset we (TT) were when Dillard was taken over Howard. Now I will say both Dillard and Howard have failed to live up to the hope of their draft position, but I don’t have the same outlook on Conerly as some here. However, I also don’t know how Ersery will project out. But I am not upset about not taking Conerly, especially if he doesn’t seem to fit the mold of what the Texans are filling the line with right now, big / broad / mauling / mountain of men.
Look at Dillard vs Conerly from pre draft scores. Dillard is photos 1 and 2 Conerly is 3 and 4.
Look at Dillard vs Conerly from pre draft scores. Dillard is photos 1 and 2 Conerly is 3 and 4.
Not sure where you're getting this from, but here is an interview with Dan Quinn post day 1. Quinn gushes over Conerly but is noncommittal regarding where Conerly might play on the line. He does say that Conerly can play inside or outside. I take Quinn at his word that he doesn't know at this point.
Had we drafted Conerly do you think we'd kick Fisher in to RG & start him at RT?
Do you think he would compete with Robinson for LT, possibly winning the spot?
Do you think he would be working to replace Robinson in case of injury or next season?
beerlover
Hall of Fame
All the above are possible. Pushback is Robinson good enough? Or Fisher? Do you feel good about CJ’s protecton, after moving on from three starters? It’s ironic the team who traded-for Tunsil also drafted Conerly... To protect their franchise.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Posted another clip that said as much.
Thanks for the comparison. I believe Ersery has some Orlando Brown Jr in his game. As far as next yr goes I believe Ersery can play OG. Some like LeeBigEZ dont think he can play OG, but he wanted Caserio to sign Becton who played very well at RG for Philly despite never play OG or on the right side of the OL in his career.
I do believe Robinson is good enough. He was brought in on a one year deal. Stop gap/versatility imo. I've said several times I do not believe the Texans ever had a problem at LT last season. I don't have a problem starting Howard at LT & Fisher at RT. I thought that was the Texans plan until they signed Cam Robinson. Right now, I don't know what their plan is.
I see Laken Tomlison similar to Cam Robinson. I'd pencil him in at LG. He's not the future, only a piece to the future. I'd feel better starting him at LG than Howard.
Robinson, Tomlinson, Patterson, [Scruggs], Howard would be my best guess at a starting lineup. RG is the position I'd have tried to upgrade in FA/Draft, but it doesn't look like the Texans tought that way.
The Redskins trading for Tunsel & drafting Conerly just tells me they're in a different place than we are... catching up. Again, I did not think we had a problem at Tackle last season, including Fisher. The Texans brought in two tackles in FA, drafted one, then signed an UDFA... so obviously the Texans & I aren't on the same page.
Do I feel good about Cj's protection going in to 2025? Not really, but not because of what was/was not done at the Tackle position, but because we're asking Patterson & Scruggs (especially Scruggs) to do something they clearly did not do in 2024.
Ersery is tall & plays high. He's pretty new having only started playing football as a senior, I believe? & he's only played LT. It would be a big change to move him inside & get him to play lower.
We're going to find out.
Becton had only played LT until Philly signed him and moved him to RG. He was dominant in the run game.
What makes Ersery different than Becton?
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Glad JWL brought this one up, was fun to look back @ both players tape.
Andre Dilliard, looked like Tazen (tested through the roof) and lived off his athleticism, then once injuies limited his movement skills his technique just wasn’t good (arm grabber, poor hand placement) played top heavy, unable to set & drop while moving his feet.
Tytus, had/has more of a guard type body, struggles in space, late on his pass sets or getting to point of contact. Shorter arms played against lesser competition (before Caserio, who would not have drafted him in first coming out of FCS).
BOTH PLAYERS, played against lesser competition than Josh Conerly JR, espcially last season when Oregon moved to the Big 10 from the Pac 12. His development exploded against better competition with new OL coach A'lique Terry. Just from player development standpoint, Conerly is still ascending & playing with Tunsil (whom he modeled his game after) with mobile pocket QB like Jayden Daniel's will truly showcase exactly whats in store for his future career.
Here’s a bonus, including short blub towards end of video about Ersery, whom I’m really happy that the Texans identified to help protect CJ.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Awe the realism in less than desireable situation, caused by reactionary chain of events.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
LT, Ersery doesn’t have to start from Day 1 to be a successful draft pick. When the team deems him ready to start at LT, that’s when the clock starts. He was drafted to be the teams answer at LT so I want him eating, sleeping, and sweating LT. If he’s ready to go this season, great….if this is his developmental season, great.
I never want to see Turnstile Howard penciled in at RT again. He’s never had a successful stint at RT, unless you count how fast the back of his hands can make it to his hips after the ball is snapped….probably leads the league in that stat.
Fisher wasn’t the starting RT when the season started, but he definitely upgraded the position over Howard’s efforts in his development season. I want to see him penciled in this season from the start to see if there’s a couple steps of growth in him.
I never want to see Turnstile Howard penciled in at RT again. He’s never had a successful stint at RT, unless you count how fast the back of his hands can make it to his hips after the ball is snapped….probably leads the league in that stat.
Fisher wasn’t the starting RT when the season started, but he definitely upgraded the position over Howard’s efforts in his development season. I want to see him penciled in this season from the start to see if there’s a couple steps of growth in him.
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beerlover
Hall of Fame
First off both Cam & Laken could be shot? Will know one way or the other soon enough, stay hopeful, but in no way do I trust Caserio OL evaluations, projections or know for sure if Popvich, who was here last year, can suddenly flip a switch.
Secondly, maybe Commanders learned from Texans and saw what happened to CJ dysfunction on the OL & how teams adjusted, picking out weakest links. So Commanders made protecting Jayden Daniels top priority.
Texans instead, for second year in a row opted to bring CJ more weapons, priotizing WR. Didn't address IOL concerns, so rinse & repeat same camp battles, Scurggs vs Patterson @ Center. Howard vs field for OG with best from rest of lot plugged into other guard spot.
Teams who are contenders, hell even the Cowboys, drafted to build or reinforce their trenches. Did Detroit need to spend pick before Texans, grabbing Tate Ratledge in 2nd more than the Texans? Did the Commanders, after trading with Texans for Tunsil need to spend their first on another OT, instead of weapon @ WR like Jayden Higgins for their young franschise QB?
Secondly, maybe Commanders learned from Texans and saw what happened to CJ dysfunction on the OL & how teams adjusted, picking out weakest links. So Commanders made protecting Jayden Daniels top priority.
Texans instead, for second year in a row opted to bring CJ more weapons, priotizing WR. Didn't address IOL concerns, so rinse & repeat same camp battles, Scurggs vs Patterson @ Center. Howard vs field for OG with best from rest of lot plugged into other guard spot.
Teams who are contenders, hell even the Cowboys, drafted to build or reinforce their trenches. Did Detroit need to spend pick before Texans, grabbing Tate Ratledge in 2nd more than the Texans? Did the Commanders, after trading with Texans for Tunsil need to spend their first on another OT, instead of weapon @ WR like Jayden Higgins for their young franschise QB?
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Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
The Cowboys, Lions, Commanders and Texans all spent the same number of Top 100 picks on OL. One. It was such a priority that they all spent a singular draft pick on offensive line.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Overall, yes; but my comment was specifically picks in the top 100. Cowboys picked OL at 12 and 204. Lions at 57 and 171. Commanders at 29. The odds on a pick outside of the top 150 contributing next season are long. Do you really think adding a fifth or sixth round IOL would have that much impact on how you feel about the oline?
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TheRealJoker V2
Veteran
I would like the odds of an OL with 2-3 years experience in need of a change of scenery (Ingram, Andrews) over a 6-7 round rookie OL. Especially in this year’s class.
I don't know. Is Becton tall, does he play high?