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Jeff Fisher OUT as Titans HC
- Thread starter JWarren14
- Start date
Forgot about Elway (blasphemy). We'll just have to disagree about the other two.
TD
Super Bowl Mascot
Yeah, I get a taste of our legacy every time "World's Greatest Sports Chokes" come on.
At least this isn't ours.
I picture ole Bud on his deathbed...."ONE YARD....ON STINKIN YARD" BWAAAAH!!
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
And see this is the problem for when guys like you and a few others make all of these excuses for Mcnair. You're literally comparing an era before 1975 that stretches all the way back in to the 60's. The 60's! You're comparing that to what has taken place in a brand new era that started in like 2001. Take that back to 1965 and that's 35 years ago when the NFL was first getting started and free agency and the trading block didn't even really exist. It's not a valid comparison by any stretch and has no play when it comes to discussing Mcnair's ineptitude.
Mcnair has had every resource imaginable at his disposal to hire great coaches and GM's and every fantastic electronic piece of equipment to research and grade players and resumes himself. Even in year 9 the old man seems like he hasn't learned a thing. He seems even more naive and and I'm just not foolish enough to believe that about a Billionaire. That to me says that he's just fine and dandy as long as his stadium is full and whether he wins or loses beyond that is no biggie. He acted like 9-7 was a SB celebration for god sakes and like Gary had actually done a great job when the Gary literally cost this team the playoffs with his multiple brain farts in several games at the end . He said we were on the "right track" after following that up with a 6-10 season. His ineptitude in this era is in incredible and mind blowing actually.
You can sit here and call Bud Adams this all time loser all you want, but don't sit here with a straight face and act like we're not in the same boat right now with Mcnair after what he's displayed with a straight face. That's just denial. I'll look at what Bud Adams has done in the last 9 years and the Titans franchise has creamed the Texans in head to head match ups and in regular season success as a whole. And the Titans may not have been an expansion team, but they were down and out and a bottom feeder "TWICE" since the Texans came into the frey and bounced right back to becoming a playoff team under three different QB's and practically two different teams after retooling their team. The Titans franchise have towered over the Texans as their as their successes in the last 9 years.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Yeah, I get a taste of our legacy every time "World's Greatest Sports Chokes" come on.
At least this isn't ours.
I picture ole Bud on his deathbed...."ONE YARD....ON STINKIN YARD" BWAAAAH!!
Going to a SB is never "a choke". That's being the best team in your conference and simply being in any SB game is always historic. There is no way to downplay that no matter how badly anyone wants to despise Bud Adams.
TD
Super Bowl Mascot
"The choke" I was referring to was the Buffalo game which is replayed in some form or another WAAAAAY too often. That's our legacy.
The SB play is proof "the curse" followed Bud to Possum Holler. That's the best moment they'll ever have.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Landry had Ditka and Reeves, he must be overrated too. Unreal
Really?....really? You are right..last second drives, winning multiple SBs, leading teams to record performances...very overrated. You should just have great stats on losing teams. Staubach wasn't surrounded by HOFers..at least not according the voters. Those old Steelers and Cowboys teams were stacked but the old Cowboy teams haven't gotten alot of love in the HOF. I really think alot of people underestimate what it takes to throw the ball accurately while handling pressure and leading teams....and then doing it year after year after year.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Staubach was surrounded by hall of famers? C'mon. Terry Bradshaw never sniffs the hall of fame but for great plays by Lynn Swan who only made the hall of fame based on his playoff catches. Rodger was clutch. He made things happen. He was Rodger the dodger and Comeback Kid and Hail Mary for a reason. Any attempt to downplay his 4th quarter clutch ability is misplaced. Of any QB ever, EVER, in the NFL if I had to pick one to lead a comeback in the 4th it would be Rodger.
I'm not trying to make any excuses for McNair. but you are acting like Adams is some great owner that has done great things. Yes, his team did have some very good years, but I was trying to point out that it took a very long time to get there.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Joe Montana is anying "but" overrated. He was amazing in college and he was amazing after the 49ers. The man won wherever he went. I never heard anyone attempt to say that about Joe.
And Rothlisburger is a guy I've been a huge fan of for years, but he's by far "not" the best comeback QB of all time. He's not even better than Tom Brady and Manning would have nice argument for that as well as far as a comparison to Big Ben.
And Elway?? Are you kidding me? Elway was just the man. There is no QB I've ever hated more than Elway when he played, but Rothlisburger is no Elway. Not even close. Elway carried his teams. Elway never played with any defenses anywhere close to what Rothlisburger has had. What many people don't realize is that these Steeler defenses of this decade are going to go down as one of the top three defenses throughout a decade of all time in NFL history. It's very arguable that this Steelers defense throughout this decade is even better than what the Steel Curtain was of the 70's. Actually it is when you consider all of the rule changes that benefit the offenses now. Sure the Steel Curtain had guys like Jack The Ham, Mean Joe Greene, Blount, and Lambert but this Steelers defense of this decade has had guys like Polomolu, Joey Porter, James Harrison, James Farrior, Tyrone Woodley, and Casey Hampton.
Going back to Elway though, that guy went to 3 SB's early on his career with a bunch of nobodies. Go to any sports bar and ask some random dude who played on those early Broncos teams that Elway led to 3 SB's and you'll be lucky to find a guy who can even name two players. All I can think of was Sammy Winder and Vance Johnson and that's it off of the top of my head. Those Broncos teams weren't top teams throughout the season really back then, but once the post season came around John Elway was just a dangerous man.
NitroGSXR
Super Sic #58
You're absolutely right. It's just my Cowboy hate seeping... my bad.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
No, I don't want you to think that I'm trying to suggest that Bud has been some great owner in the grand scheme of things. Please don't misplace my arguments here JB. The problem is that the majority of people on this site have such a hatred and loathing of Bud since he took this team away from this city, that they can't discuss anything about the man's teams with any objectivity. Bud Adams has put together plenty of teams with loads of talent if you want to look back on the last 25 years. I don't think discussing stuff from the 60's and 70's is really of any significance if we're making comparisons to the "Mcnair era" where the Texans are concerned. Bud brought the meat personal wise plenty of times and just can't be denied when you look at the staff he had in the 90's and the players he loaded this team with. Even now in this decade the Titans have had some very good teams. They have some poor seasons as well and that goes into the equation, but they've shown the ability to bounce right back into the fold of contenders as well.
I don't like Bud Adams dude. I hate the man just like many others, but he's put out the resources to build winners plenty of times in many seasons. For being such a tyrant he did hold on to a great coach for like 16 years. He managed to keep Fisher around and had great QB's that kept his teams relevevant for many years like Moon and Mcnair in the last 25 years. VY looked like the next big thing to many people as well and had some early success. He'll probably flame out as bust at this point though.
My whole point has been that we can sit here and throw darts at the Bud Adams photo all day long and blast him as an owner, but that doesn't change the fact that we've got one that looks just as bad but in different ways. We as fans need to hold Mcnair accountable. Mcnair hasn't gotten a dime from me in over a year and he won't next season either. I won't play his game and fill up his bank account if he's not in it to win it. I just don't see how people can hate Bud Adams so much and think he's so destined to lose an owner, but then have all of this confidence and admiration for Bob Mcnair just because he's "classy and sweet." Sure that's a plus, but if winning and a commitment to that goal is your main objective as a fan which it is to most, then I don't see how Mcnair shouldn't get just as many negative criticisms but for different reasons.
God, I hate that game. And it's this time of year that NFLN will play it at least 10 different times. I can almost guarantee that I will turn on the tv at some point in the next week and see it on.
And yeah, that 'curse' followed him to Nashville, but unfortunately, it left a nasty infection at it's old address on Kirby that still hasn't been cured.
Jerry Glanville took the Oilers to the playoffs in 3 of his 4 full seasons as head coach. Glanville was involved in every aspect of the team, and called both the offensive and defensive plays. Love him or hate him, there's no question that the man in black was head & shoulders above Gary Kubiak as a head coach.
False Start
On # 69
If Bud keeps Vince, because he choses him over Fisher thats pretty sad IMO. I hope the Titans become the new Lions, and if KY stays that might just happen.
Fisher giving the ultimatum is messed up, but to let him go over a below average QB at best is just not cool, IMO.
If Bud keeps Vince, because he choses him over Fisher thats pretty sad IMO. I hope the Titans become the new Lions, and if KY stays that might just happen.
Fisher giving the ultimatum is messed up, but to let him go over a below average QB at best is just not cool, IMO.
The Titans said the would trade or release Young two weeks ago. After letting Fisher go, they've said the haven't changed their mind about Vince, he's still gone.
I think this had something to do with trying to work out a deal for Fishers contract, he was going into the last year of his contract. It could have been anything, Fisher wanting more money than they offered, or a longer term, or personnel control, who knows. But the latest rumor is that he wanted to bring his son into the organization, & Bud said no.
It's all in this thread.
Txn_in_FL
All Pro
As a kid I remember the Oilers being terrible until Glanville came along. Sure he pulled some ridiculous stunts here and there but there were good things too. Buying tickets to avoid blackouts is something I remember happening quite a few times.
Of coure you have the defense and the House of Pain Astrodome that he brought about. The hitlists in the locker room, the attitude, as I remember teams weren't very fond of coming to the Dome to play.
I'm not trying to defend Bud by any means, I just don't like people acting like Glanville sucked so bad and leaving out the good spots.
Rotoworld is now reporting that Fisher and the Titans were at odds over the pace of Fisher's (lack of) urgency when it came to replacing coaches on his staff. Word is that the desired hiring of Jeff's son as a "quality control coach" may have played a role in the split.
Another interesting blip ia Rotoworld:
Houston Mid-South?
Another interesting blip ia Rotoworld:
Houston Mid-South?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Really didn't know what a "quality control coach" is. Sounds like a potentially very important gopher. N.F.L. Quality-Control Coaches Learn It All
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
OL/position coach straight to head coach. Hmmm, and folks criticize the Texans for having a rookie HC.
TD
Super Bowl Mascot
Two of those were nine win seasons. Sometimes its just the luck of the draw.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yeah it does when judging relative merit. Things fall a little different last year and the Texans are in at 9-7. The fact that they did or did not makes no difference to how good a team they were. Were the Seahawks a good team because they made it to the playoffs at 7-9?
False Start
On # 69
TD
Super Bowl Mascot
Yep. Sometimes 7-8 wins get you in and 10-11 wins doesn't. It doesn't reflect on the coach either way.
Interesting read (that I'm sure is on this board somewhere) 10 Best NFL Teams To Miss the Playoffs Since 2002
Was that team any worse than the two nine win Glanville teams that made the playoffs? I doubt it.
It's amazing how the hate can cloud objectivity.
I'm not saying Glanville was a great coach or anything, but he's surely better than anything we've seen from Kubiak in 6 seasons. That's a sad indictment of Kubiak, if anything.
Relative merit is Glanville going to the playoffs 3 out of 4 seasons, regardless of record, and Kubiak making zero playoff games in 6 years.
I honestly don't know how Glanville can be considered a bad hire by Adams, all relative merits considered.
Things fall a little different last year and the Texans are 3-13. All that matters in the end is results. There is no stat for "what ifs".
Were the Seahawks a good team going to the playoffs at 7-9? Beating the world champions in the playoffs answers that question. They did what they had to do to win their division, regardless of how weak it was in the end. Every chance the Texans have had to capitalize, they fail without exception. The Texans never win games that they need to win. The Seahawks did....with a first year head coach, as well.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Glanvilles accomplishments just pale in comparison to Hugh "Bones" Taylor.
On another note...If Munchak does not make the cut in Nashville is there much chance we could land him. I would rather have what he could add here to what Fisher could.
There you go again raining on the sunshine clubs parade. LOL
You're right about there being no simple answer. A lot can just depend on perception and how you choose to look at something.
It's a results driven business, so that's often where my perspective is coming from. But you and 'cak have made some excellent points, so I certainly wasn't trying to diminish your takes.
Back to Glanville, though, sure he was the beneficiary of personnel, but who chose that personnel? I see a head coach being responsible for far more than just gameday decisions. Obviously, they get more credit and more blame than they deserve, but it's a representative thing.
The Texans finished 9-7 with a cupcake schedule including the NFC Worst. During the 80's, only 5 teams per conference made the playoffs. And the Oilers were the 4th seed each of their 9-7 seasons. So they didn't exactly back in to the playoffs. Something even the Texans have failed to accomplish.
Pardee didn't do much more than Glanville. And I'm certainly not suggesting that either were great coaches. Just that Bob McNair's choices to lead his football team have been nothing but awful. By hook, crook, or dumb luck, Adams has had better hires.
TD
Super Bowl Mascot
Well, there were two less teams per conference, one less division winner, and the same number of wild card teams (2) as well. So really it was easier to make the playoffs as a WC team back then; 11 teams competing for two spots, instead of the 12 now.
And they were 4th seeds on tie-breakers. Don't know that means much.
In four full seasons, Pardee: Won 9,11,10, and 12 games; won the division; had a 66% winning pct; and always had a positive point differential.
In four full seasons, Glanville: Won 5, 9,10, and 9 games; never won the division; had a 52% winning pct; and was outscored 3 of the 4 years.
Personally I kinda liked 'ole Jerry, but I think he walked into a golden opportunity and under-performed with it.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
McNair moves so slow I'll be collecting social security by the time he gets to his third head coach so you're right, he has a long way to go.
But seriously, Glanville was .508 here in Houston and that includes two losses he picked up at the end of 1985 when he was the interim head coach. As bad as he was he at least posted three straight winning seasons. The next coach McNair hires who posts a better than .500 record will be the first coach he hires to do that.
Cupcake?
We lost to the Colts twice. The Colts could have been 16-0 if they wanted to.
We lost twice to Jacksonville. Shouldn't have happened. They weren't very good... half-back pass & all. One of these two games (which were in our reach) we'd have gone to the play-offs.
We lost to the Cardinals. They had been to the Super Bowl the year before. They finished 2009 at 10-6.
We lost one game to Tennessee. That was a good game... except for the two missed field goals, at home.... we lost by 3.
Oh yeah, we lost to the Jets... who also finished 9-7... went all the way to the AFC Championship game.
Now, the Ravens had a cupcake schedule. .438 vs our .506
The Steelers, they had a cupcake schedule .434
They both finished 9-7.
The Broncos, the 49ers, they had cupcake schedules. .480 & .443 respectively. They both finished 8-8
The Bears, .414 (the leagues easiest schedule), were 7-9.
The Seahawks, .457 went 7-9
The Rams, .465 went 1-15
The Chiefs, .484 went 4-12.
By the way, we were 3-1 against the "NFC Worst"
TEXANRED
Texan-American
If last years schedule was any softer Pillsbury would have been the sponsor.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
This thread wouldn't be complete without a philosophical TK excuse and spin for Mcnair and Smithiak. Now we've finally come full circle.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Yeah, like Kubiak not trusting a guy like Chris Brown at the end of 3 different games where he single handily gave the game away to the other team. (That's if you're talking about last year as in the season before the previous.)
Now this season (If that's what you were talking about) was just a pure fail of all merits. The way we continually lost close games that were in the bag were inexcusable and was the same type of garbage we had seen two years prior. The Rosencopter incident and so many other epic facepalm moments. It's been a mile long pattern of that under Kubiak which is probably the most frustrating part of why he's still employed with this team. I've never in my life of watching football seen any coach lose this many games in such weird ways that seem impossible, but some how the odds of weird stuff always land with Gary. Even when I was rooting for the Texans to lose so Gary would get fired finally and the Texans were whipping on certain teams I'd tell people that the Texans were going to win, and I'd find out later that "the omen" hit once again and I'd just laugh. The frustration stage left me a long time ago under this regime and now it's just like a bad train wreck that continues to crash in different towns. It's sort of like a circus really.
No they weren't a good team. They just happened to be in a terrible division. The only real thing they have to be proud of is that win in the first round. I do think that Carroll has brought in some confidence within the organization though. He made a lot of moves in the off season right away and throughout the season to change the make up of the team. That's a positive sign for that franchise I'd say. A HC and GM that makes a lot of moves and looks for opportunities is one that has the ability to change things pretty quickly. It's not the typical we'll only "build through the draft" approach.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Move on from what? What has changed with this organization? Are you suggesting that I should have optimism just to have optimism? Sorry, but I don't tick like that. I base optimism off of sound reasoning and sound data that makes sense to me and there just hasn't been any of that from the Texans.
My entire philosophy here is that this franchise needs to cut their losses and move on to something fresh and new and to stop doing the same thing that has failed and expecting different results. That's the definition of insanity and also a strong symptom of denial. My perceptions with this team seem to really irritate you and that's not any objective of mine, but it is what it is JB. Brutal truth is just better than a fantasy to me.
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TD
Super Bowl Mascot
Nope. One fewer playoff team back then and there was LESS competition for the wild card spots. 2 of 11 instead of 2 of 12.
No Tex, I am not asking you to change your perceptions of this team, or of their past. But don't you get tired of rehashing the same over & over? You and I can not change what the team is doing going forward, but we can look at what they need to do in our opinions. Bitching about what they didn't do gets us nowhere. I agree the team needs to move forward. So do we. I am just as pissed as anyone about what has been. I choose not to dwell on that, 'cause it serves no purpose. Rather than turn every thread into a "they should have" thread, I would rather look forward to a "they need to". Knowing that my opinion means nothing in the grand scheme of things.
I get where you are coming from, and agree with a great bit of it. But yesterday is gone Bud.
This thread wouldn't be complete without a philosophical TK excuse and spin for Mcnair and Smithiak. Now we've finally come full circle.
It's not spin. If our schedule was a cupcake schedule because of the NFC West, we did our part by beating those teams. We lost to the good teams on our schedule and our division rivals. Which is a problem, I'm not arguing that. But the cupcake part, we did what we were supposed to do.
good teams don't just win cupcake games, they find ways to beat other good teams. Playoff teams are usually able to play smashmouth football, or make the tough calls when the game is on the line. Kubes is too conservative, yeah defense was a problem, but 4th and 1, you don't punt when you are on the opposng teams 40