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Jared Goff

I watched bits and pieces of Lynch and Goff with constant distraction tonight. Decent arms on both. Competent and more mobile then I gave either credit for. Neither looked like they had much talent around them and im not familiar enough with navy or Oregon to know how good their competition was. At the end of the day I wanted to be impressed. I wanted to see first round talent. I didnt.
 
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Bad INT there at the end by Goff. Tried to force the ball into a tiny window and couldn't get it over the underneath Safety. Then again, when your defense gives up 780 yards it's not a surprise to see the offense press and make some mistakes. They literally have to score every time they have the ball or they're getting blown out.
 
beerlover said:
It looks to me like he will be there when the Texans select. Is that something everyone here would want?
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This is 4 weeks in a row the kid has not been ready for primetime or Sundays. Disappointing to say the least. No way I see him being a first rd pick in next years draft. After week ten I only see two, Cook and Wentz. I am warming to idea that if the Texans go day 2 or 3 QB, Jake Coker has peeked my interest.
 
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beerlover said:
It looks to me like he will be there when the Texans select. Is that something everyone here would want?
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I still like Goff the best. I think he easily has the best set of tools.

Two conditions though. One, he has to sit. Would've been nice to have Fitz instead of Hoyer for that. Hell, I'd try to get Hasselbeck over here if he wants to give it a shot. He might be fine holding the clipboard at this point though.

Two, he needs tuning. And I don't trust anyone on our staff with that. We need staff changes or we need to go a different direction with the pick.
 
bah007 said:
I still like Goff the best. I think he easily has the best set of tools.

Two conditions though. One, he has to sit. Would've been nice to have Fitz instead of Hoyer for that. Hell, I'd try to get Hasselbeck over here if he wants to give it a shot. He might be fine holding the clipboard at this point though.

Two, he needs tuning. And I don't trust anyone on our staff with that. We need staff changes or we need to go a different direction with the pick.
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So you're saying BOB should be fired?

He got the job because of his perceived ability to coach up QB's and if he cant do that then he's basically useless.
 
beerlover said:
It looks to me like he will be there when the Texans select. Is that something everyone here would want?
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1st round tools, not a 1st round product. I would take him in the 1st but it would be with the intent to sit him for at least a year.

Similar to Bortles. I thought Bortles had 1st round tools but was not a 1st round product and needed to sit for a year.
 
steelbtexan said:
So you're saying BOB should be fired?

He got the job because of his perceived ability to coach up QB's and if he cant do that then he's basically useless.
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It's not necessarily fair to OB but I think a new GM should get to bring in his own HC. And that's what needs to happen. I'll leave it at that.
 
With all the complaints about the Front Office, I'd take them in a heartbeat over the critics. The ideas of critics are amusing to say the least.
 
Texian said:
This is 4 weeks in a row the kid has not been ready for primetime or Sundays. Disappointing to say the least. No way I see him being a first rd pick in next years draft. After week ten I only see two, Cook and Wentz. I am warming to idea that if the Texans go day 2 or 3 QB, Jake Coker has peeked my interest.
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Lol, are u serious? Coker is GARBAGE......He looks average at best & this is with NFL talent around him.
 
Mr teX said:
Lol, are u serious? Coker is GARBAGE......He looks average at best & this is with NFL talent around him.
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Not against Tenn he didn't, he made two BIG time NFL throws at the end of the game that put Bama in position to win that game. Garbage is a bit of extreme, don't ya think? His last four games he's really been quite the stud. You're right, one of the reasons he doesn't have more impressive stats is because of the running game that surrounds him. Why pass if you can run the ball at will?
 
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Exec: Cal QB Goff should return to school

n NFC personnel director advises Cal junior QB Jared Goff to return to school next year.
"He's been the hot ticket and talk in college football this year, and there is no denying his talent, but I see him as best served by going back to school," the personnel director said. "He needs more heft to give him a bit more padding and body armor, and the more starts and situations that he sees in college, the better. Plus, his team keeps improving, and success can never be underestimated for a QB." Regardless of the merit of this argument, we'd be stunned if Goff returned to school because of his first-round grade and possible ranking as the class' best QB. Goff has little left to prove in college, though NFL teams do want him to bulk up.

(personal side note, I don't believe any draft grades have been assigned by the NFL at this point so the author is jumping the gun here just a bit)

The scoop: "He's been the hot ticket and talk in college football this year, and there is no denying his talent, but I see him as best served by going back to school. He needs more heft to give him a bit more padding and body armor, and the more starts and situations that he sees in college, the better. Plus, his team keeps improving, and success can never be underestimated for a QB." -- NFC personnel director on Cal QB Jared Goff
 
Goff could certainly stand to put a few sturdy pounds on, but he could do that all offseason and in a pro setting as well.

I really can't see what another year of working in the same offense with the same bunk talent around him is going to do for his preparation though. Sounds counterproductive really.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Goff could certainly stand to put a few sturdy pounds on, but he could do that all offseason and in a pro setting as well.

I really can't see what another year of working in the same offense with the same bunk talent around him is going to do for his preparation though. Sounds counterproductive really.
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The best way to get better is by playing the game. He's very young, his body and mind could use the extra year of maturity. There's a reason car insurance drops dramatically for 25 yr old drivers, it's a science.
 
Texian said:
The best way to get better is by playing the game. He's very young, his body and mind could use the extra year of maturity. There's a reason car insurance drops dramatically for 25 yr old drivers, it's a science.
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Playing time in the same system with the same coaches and the same talent around him isn't time spent learning anything but the bad habits he's seemingly starting to pick up. And you saying things about what more seasoning can do is not a one route to success argument. Plenty of guys have learned on the job, and though some have failed, many have succeeded.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Playing time in the same system with the same coaches and the same talent around him isn't time spent learning anything but the bad habits he's seemingly starting to pick up. And you saying things about what more seasoning can do is not a one route to success argument. Plenty of guys have learned on the job, and though some have failed, many have succeeded.
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Many more have failed who only spent three years in college. Success rate on those guys is pretty dismal.
 
Texian said:
Many more have failed who only spent three years in college. Success rate on those guys is pretty dismal.
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That certainly doesn't make it a death knell for Goff. These guys aren't test tube experiments all run under the same control conditions.

And again, he's not going to learn anything new running the Bear Raid for another year ducking defenders playing with Pac-12 scrubs. Now if you could tell me he could play a senior season for Jimbo Fisher or Mark Dantonio then I'd say he should jump on that. Otherwise he could stand to advance his learning curve professionally instead of continuing to treat every dropback as an attempt at a 14-point score. Bad habits.
 
Mollywhopper said:
That certainly doesn't make it a death knell for Goff. These guys aren't test tube experiments all run under the same control conditions.

And again, he's not going to learn anything new running the Bear Raid for another year ducking defenders playing with Pac-12 scrubs. Now if you could tell me he could play a senior season for Jimbo Fisher or Mark Dantonio then I'd say he should jump on that. Otherwise he could stand to advance his learning curve professionally instead of continuing to treat every dropback as an attempt at a 14-point score. Bad habits.
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He needs more time in the minors... OOPS! This is football.

Here's an idea. Just drop the pretense of the Student Athlete and acknowledge that most players are there to play football and will devote their time to it and immature behavior. Just use the college system OPENLY as the NFL minor league with assigned associations and give the NFL teams the ability to move the players around their minors. Award the players one year scholarships to be used at a time of their choosing for each year of employment to go along with their minor league salary.

The exceptional students can still attend classes around their work schedules IF they choose like most other working stiffs.
 
Marshall said:
He needs more time in the minors... OOPS! This is football.

Here's an idea. Just drop the pretense of the Student Athlete and acknowledge that most players are there to play football and will devote their time to it and immature behavior. Just use the college system OPENLY as the NFL minor league with assigned associations and give the NFL teams the ability to move the players around their minors. Award the players one year scholarships to be used at a time of their choosing for each year of employment to go along with their minor league salary.

The exceptional students can still attend classes around their work schedules IF they choose like most other working stiffs.
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There are 10,880 scholarship athletes every year in the FBS alone. There are maybe 500 job openings in the NFL every year. So no, most aren't there to play football. Most realize it's the last time they will in fact play football and they are there to get a degree, with football as the grease to the wheels of that opportunity.
 
Texian said:
Not against Tenn he didn't, he made two BIG time NFL throws at the end of the game that put Bama in position to win that game. Garbage is a bit of extreme, don't ya think? His last four games he's really been quite the stud. You're right, one of the reasons he doesn't have more impressive stats is because of the running game that surrounds him. Why pass if you can run the ball at will?
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Lol, just 2 big time NFL throws? You see all the tools and you see things that make you say "Wow, if he could just be more consistent, he'd be a stud..". The minute you do that is the minute you make the mistake in his evaluation. Furthermore, he's only got 1 year of real production...As a sophmore he couldn't beat out a freshman at FSU in Jameis Winston so he decides to transfer to Bama where everyone expected him to beat out a 5th year Sr. in Blake Sims largely b/c of his talent.... & he can't do that either...so here we are 3 years later & b/c he has 4 relatively mediocore showings in his last 4 meetings against mostly garbage defensive teams he's all of a sudden a stud? Coker is nothing more than this year's Ryan Mallet when he came out of Arkansas...with far less impressive numbers.

Cmon Texian, you're better than that.
 
Mollywhopper said:
That certainly doesn't make it a death knell for Goff. These guys aren't test tube experiments all run under the same control conditions.

And again, he's not going to learn anything new running the Bear Raid for another year ducking defenders playing with Pac-12 scrubs. Now if you could tell me he could play a senior season for Jimbo Fisher or Mark Dantonio then I'd say he should jump on that. Otherwise he could stand to advance his learning curve professionally instead of continuing to treat every dropback as an attempt at a 14-point score. Bad habits.
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The odds and the chances that Goff will FAIL if he's drafted as a true Junior are extremely high. Those odds and chances have a better chance of success if Goff spends 4 years in college. Most everyone says that Goff would need 2 years on the bench with clip board in hand before playing or even 3 years like Aaron Rodgers. Let's be completely honest, if the Texans drafted Goff in the first rd in the next NFL draft, there is no way Jared Goff would spend 2 years on the Texans bench learning his trade, much less 3 years like Aaron Rodgers. Goff would be thrown to wolves and likely go through 2 head coaches and 2 or 3 offensive coordinators and offensive systems before his first contract expires.
 
Texian said:
The odds and the chances that Goff will FAIL if he's drafted as a true Junior are extremely high. Those odds and chances have a better chance of success if Goff spends 4 years in college. Most everyone says that Goff would need 2 years on the bench with clip board in hand before playing or even 3 years like Aaron Rodgers. Let's be completely honest, if the Texans drafted Goff in the first rd in the next NFL draft, there is no way Jared Goff would spend 2 years on the Texans bench learning his trade, much less 3 years like Aaron Rodgers. Goff would be thrown to wolves and likely go through 2 head coaches and 2 or 3 offensive coordinators and offensive systems before his first contract expires.
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- I'm not basing this off of the Texans taking him. I don't know who will take him or what they'll do with him.

- His going back to play 12 or so more games in the same system with the same dire talent around him will do him no better than going to a pro environment could. He's had his fill of a Sonny Dykes-led offense, he can graduate from that now.
 
Texian said:
The odds and the chances that Goff will FAIL if he's drafted as a true Junior are extremely high. Those odds and chances have a better chance of success if Goff spends 4 years in college. Most everyone says that Goff would need 2 years on the bench with clip board in hand before playing or even 3 years like Aaron Rodgers. Let's be completely honest, if the Texans drafted Goff in the first rd in the next NFL draft, there is no way Jared Goff would spend 2 years on the Texans bench learning his trade, much less 3 years like Aaron Rodgers. Goff would be thrown to wolves and likely go through 2 head coaches and 2 or 3 offensive coordinators and offensive systems before his first contract expires.
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Most of these dudes go back to school b/c they have to...In Goff's case though, I think he needs to come out..His stock will likely never be much higher than it is now especially playing with that garbage around him and i can't think of any qb in recent years that was considered by many to be a 1st rounder whom voluntarily went back to school for that "refinement" year and their stock rose even more..to the contrary it more often goes the other way or they don't move at all.....Lienart, that kid out of UCLA just last year,McCarron, Mettenberger etc.
 
Mr teX said:
Lol, just 2 big time NFL throws? You see all the tools and you see things that make you say "Wow, if he could just be more consistent, he'd be a stud..". The minute you do that is the minute you make the mistake in his evaluation. Furthermore, he's only got 1 year of real production...As a sophmore he couldn't beat out a freshman at FSU in Jameis Winston so he decides to transfer to Bama where everyone expected him to beat out a 5th year Sr. in Blake Sims largely b/c of his talent.... & he can't do that either...so here we are 3 years later & b/c he has 4 relatively mediocore showings in his last 4 meetings against mostly garbage defensive teams he's all of a sudden a stud? Coker is nothing more than this year's Ryan Mallet when he came out of Arkansas...with far less impressive numbers.

Cmon Texian, you're better than that.
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Yes, TWO BIG throws in the last minutes of the game for the WIN. If he doesn't make them they LOSE. As for consistency, his last four games he has been completing over 70% of his passes. Goff's last game he was under 44% and Goff's last 4 games he has been all over the map, 43%, 74%, 60%, 53% with 8 INTs, talk about consistency. And Coker has been performing better against better competition. Coker transferred to Bama because he graduated early, he's not stupid and why he didn't have to sit out a year. Fisher and Saban are good friends, I don't think Jimbo would've recommended/sent Nick damaged goods.

I will stand by my comments that come day 2 or day 3 of the NFL draft and Jake Coker is still on the board, he should be given serious consideration to be drafted based on the facts that he's a pro style QB who has been coached by Jimbo Fisher and Nick Saban. It really doesn't get any better than that. And when given his chance to start, Coker has excelled and only continues to get better. The difference between Jake Coker and other Saban Bama QBs, John Parker Wilson, Greg McElroy, AJ McCarron and Blake Sims is Coker doesn't have their noodle arms. The Alabama Lane Kiffin offense has been able to do more this year because of Coker's arm. The difference between Jake Coker and Ryan Mallett is the space between their ears. I will not be surprised if Jake Coker leads Alabama to a National Championship this year. Jake Coker and the Alabama Crimson Tide seem only to be getting better each and every week.
 
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Mollywhopper said:
- I'm not basing this off of the Texans taking him. I don't know who will take him or what they'll do with him.

- His going back to play 12 or so more games in the same system with the same dire talent around him will do him no better than going to a pro environment could. He's had his fill of a Sonny Dykes-led offense, he can graduate from that now.
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I am basing the Texans drafting a QB, including Goff and the reason why I'm here. Jared Goff would not be sitting on a Texans bench for 2-3 years learning how to be an NFL QB. Forgetaboutit.

Clearly we disagree, Goff's mental and physical growth and progress is not ready for the NFL. Any GM who drafts Goff as a true Junior in Rd 1 faces a high degree of FAILURE. That record is pretty clear. Not to mention Goff is only getting worse as he faces tougher competion.
 
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Texian said:
Clearly we disagree, Goff's mental and physical growth and progress is not ready for the NFL. Any GM who drafts Goff as a true Junior in Rd 1 faces a high degree of FAILURE. That record is pretty clear. Not to mention Goff is only getting worse as he faces tougher competion.
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Your use of true junior statistics goes back to when guys didn't play until they were soph's at the earliest, often times didn't start until they were juniors. Of course those guys would be expected to stay a fourth year. Goff's played the equivalent of that already at Cal having been the starter since the day he signed his LOI, and won't gain anything new if he continues his time there. Isn't the looked upon stat 35 starts before coming out? The timer's going off on that in a couple of weeks.

I got no problem agreeing to disagree, but the arguments that he needs to bulk up and could stand to learn some more things don't hold water as a reason to stay when he could do both of those things in spades at the next level versus continuing to stunt his growth dodging defenders playing for a bad team with a maxed out learning curve in the same offense. But sure, agree to disagree.
 
Texian said:
Yes, TWO BIG throws in the last minutes of the game for the WIN. If he doesn't make them they LOSE. As for consistency, his last four games he has been completing over 70% of his passes. Goff's last game he was under 44% and Goff's last 4 games he has been all over the map, 43%, 74%, 60%, 53% with 8 INTs, talk about consistency. And Coker has been performing better against better competition. Coker transferred to Bama because he graduated early, he's not stupid and why he didn't have to sit out a year. Fisher and Saban are good friends, I don't think Jimbo would've recommended/sent Nick damaged goods.

I will stand by my comments that come day 2 or day 3 of the NFL draft and Jake Coker is still on the board, he should be given serious consideration to be drafted based on the facts that he's a pro style QB who has been coached by Jimbo Fisher and Nick Saban. It really doesn't get any better than that. And when given his chance to start, Coker has excelled and only continues to get better. The difference between Jake Coker and other Saban Bama QBs, John Parker Wilson, Greg McElroy, AJ McCarron and Blake Sims is Coker doesn't have their noodle arms. The Alabama Lane Kiffin offense has been able to do more this year because of Coker's arm. The difference between Jake Coker and Ryan Mallett is the space between their ears. I will not be surprised if Jake Coker leads Alabama to a National Championship this year. Jake Coker and the Alabama Crimson Tide seem to be getting better each and every week.
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I remember you doing this with Bortles. You're putting way too much stock in the bolded as if it somehow translates to a clutch characteristic or something and it doesn't translate to anything other than what transpired in those games. You're also naive if you believe that him graduating early was the only reason why he transferred. He transferred because he knew what time it was in FSU...he wasn't/couldn't beat out Jameis Winston...especially after he led them to an NC. Regardless, it shouldn't have even gotten to that point...if he was the incumbent and as such he would've had the position locked down in spring camp the minute Winston set foot on campus. Regardless, that still doesn't explain his inability to beat out a 4th year back up in Blake Sims once he got to Bama.

Physical talent aside, You're actually suggesting that the Texans pick a guy in the 2nd or 3rd round based on 2 big throws in a game?
 
Mollywhopper said:
Your use of true junior statistics goes back to when guys didn't play until they were soph's at the earliest, often times didn't start until they were juniors. Of course those guys would be expected to stay a fourth year. Goff's played the equivalent of that already at Cal having been the starter since the day he signed his LOI, and won't gain anything new if he continues his time there. Isn't the looked upon stat 35 starts before coming out? The timer's going off on that in a couple of weeks.

I got no problem agreeing to disagree, but the arguments that he needs to bulk up and could stand to learn some more things don't hold water as a reason to stay when he could do both of those things in spades at the next level versus continuing to stunt his growth dodging defenders playing for a bad team with a maxed out learning curve in the same offense. But sure, agree to disagree.
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Your interpretation of my use of Junior stats is your opinion and your spin not mine. Let be absolutely clear on my position of Jared Goff as a true Junior (getting a bigger hammer and chisel) it has nothing to do with stats at all and everything to do with the maturity of his mind and his body. It doesn't matter whether the kid has started 50 games for Cal, at 21 years old his mind and his body is not ready for the NFL. To sit for 2-3 years, OK maybe, to start no way. (He won't sit 2-3 with the Texans) The record has been pretty clear on that whether you choose to believe it or not or agree with it or not. As for stats, comparisons and the only real anomaly here, Aaron Rodgers, Goff's numbers don't come close to matching up with Rodgers. Very very doubtful that Goff has Rodgers mental makeup. Rodgers has only been fined once for being late to a meeting. Aaron could've made it to the meeting on time if he had chose to speed and break several driving laws. He thought it best not to speed and be late. None of this explains Goff's poor play against better competition in his last four games and isn't that what's really important here?
 
What he may or may not do if the Texans do or don't draft him, and Aaron Rodgers hypothetical speeding tickets ...

... ok.
 
Mr teX said:
I remember you doing this with Bortles. You're putting way too much stock in the bolded as if it somehow translates to a clutch characteristic or something and it doesn't translate to anything other than what transpired in those games. You're also naive if you believe that him graduating early was the only reason why he transferred. He transferred because he knew what time it was in FSU...he wasn't/couldn't beat out Jameis Winston...especially after he led them to an NC. Regardless, it shouldn't have even gotten to that point...if he was the incumbent and as such he would've had the position locked down in spring camp the minute Winston set foot on campus. Regardless, that still doesn't explain his inability to beat out a 4th year back up in Blake Sims once he got to Bama.

Physical talent aside, You're actually suggesting that the Texans pick a guy in the 2nd or 3rd round based on 2 big throws in a game?
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There is a monstrous difference in day 2 and day 3 of the NFL draft vs rd 2 or rd 3. Giving Coker serious consideration in Rd 3 or later, depending on your draft board, would be the prudent thing to do. And as you probably know, Coker has done much than 2 BIG throws to win the game. It just means that he can. There are so many who can't. BTW I haven't seen that from Goff as of yet. It's like the racehorse who you watch a run a sub 2 minute mile, you always make at least a small wager on him because you know he can.

Regarding all of your regardlesses, because Coker didn't beat out Winston, who by the way, won the Heisman trophy, a National Championship and was the First Pick in the NFL Draft doesn't make Coker a bad QB, as you suggest. You know it's quite possible that Coker could become a better Pro QB than Winston. Sims beat out Coker because Sims already had 2 years in the Saban offense and knew the offense. If you know Saban then you know that makes a lot sense. Coker was technically a rookie in the system and offense, starting from scratch. Coker transferred to Bama because he had graduated, could play immediately and had a definite chance of becoming the starter in 2015, which he did. Technically Winston could still be playing for FSU, which he isn't. Now I ask you, how many student athlete QBs transfer up from a school like FSU to a school like Bama? If Coker was as bad a QB as you're portraying this would've never of happened. You can bet your sweet Nick Saban on it. You're behaving in a manner that suggest Coker transferred to Jacksonville St not Alabama.

BTW, need I remind you, that with the 3rd pick in the draft, Blake Bortles was the very first QB drafted in the 2014 NFL draft.
 
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Texian said:
I will stand by my comments that come day 2 or day 3 of the NFL draft and Jake Coker is still on the board, he should be given serious consideration to be drafted based on the facts that he's a pro style QB who has been coached by Jimbo Fisher and Nick Saban. It really doesn't get any better than that.
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Just a question but what QB have Fisher/Saban/Kiffin coached in college that went on to be an even decent NFL QB? I can't think of one. Playing in a pro system is great but I seriously can't think of one QB that any of those guys have developed.

Saban: A.J. McCarron, Greg McElroy, Matt Mauk, Rohan Davey, Craig Nall, Tony Banks
Fisher: E.J. Manuel, Christian Ponder, JaMarcus Russell, Matt Mauk, Rohan Davey, Craig Nall
Kiffin: Matt Barkley, Jonathan Crompton, Matt Leinart, Matt Cassell


*I'm discounting Jameis Winston because he is just a rookie thus the jury is still out on him (although he looks pretty good so far).
 
Mollywhopper said:
What he may or may not do if the Texans do or don't draft him, and Aaron Rodgers hypothetical speeding tickets ...

... ok.
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Nothing hypothetical about it, Rodgers has been late for one meeting and according to Rodgers it's because he choose not to speed. Do you honestly believe that if Texans drafted Jared Goff in RD 1 of next year's draft that he would be riding the pine until 2018 or 2019?
 
Texian said:
Nothing hypothetical about it, Rodgers has been late for one meeting and according to Rodgers it's because he choose not to speed. Do you honestly believe that if Texans drafted Jared Goff in RD 1 of next year's draft that he would be riding the pine until 2018 or 2019?
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Have you honestly read any of my posts on the matter?
 
Texian said:
Sims beat out Coker because Sims already had 2 years in the Saban offense and knew the offense. If you know Saban then you know that makes a lot sense. Coker was technically a rookie in the system and offense, starting from scratch.
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Different offense. Saban hired Kiffin, who came in and began running his own up-tempo offense. Kiffin chose Sims as the starter because of his running ability. Saban's familiarity with Sims compared to his familiarity with Coker was very likely a contributing factor to him giving the OK on Sims being the starter, but it was not the same offense.
 
WolverineFan said:
Just a question but what QB have Fisher/Saban/Kiffin coached in college that went on to be an even decent NFL QB? I can't think of one. Playing in a pro system is great but I seriously can't think of one QB that any of those guys have developed.

Saban: A.J. McCarron, Greg McElroy, Matt Mauk, Rohan Davey, Craig Nall, Tony Banks
Fisher: E.J. Manuel, Christian Ponder, JaMarcus Russell, Matt Mauk, Rohan Davey, Craig Nall
Kiffin: Matt Barkley, Jonathan Crompton, Matt Leinart, Matt Cassell


*I'm discounting Jameis Winston because he is just a rookie thus the jury is still out on him (although he looks pretty good so far).
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Most of the QBs you listed have been highly successful college QBs who were recruited because their abilities fit the system. Would they have been as successful if they had not played for Fisher, Saban or Kiffin? Probably not. On the other hand your list does have quite a few QBs who did make it to the NFL and get their opportunity. If they hadn't played for Fisher, Saban or Kiffin that probably doesn't happen. Right? What are the common denominators on why their college successes did not transfer with any degree of success to the NFL? Weak arms, a slower mind or both. That doesn't mean that it won't happen sometime. How many of the top 25 college QBs each year find success in the NFL. Very few. Part of the draftnik process is finding that diamond in the rough, the Tom Brady if you will. Jake Coker is as good a piece of coal that I have found that has the possibility of becoming that diamond in the rough. And why I think it's worthy of consideration of making Jake Coker a mid or late rd draft pick. No doubt, many will disagree.
 
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WolverineFan said:
Different offense. Saban hired Kiffin, who came in and began running his own up-tempo offense. Kiffin chose Sims as the starter because of his running ability. Saban's familiarity with Sims compared to his familiarity with Coker was very likely a contributing factor to him giving the OK on Sims being the starter, but it was not the same offense.
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No, that's not right. You need to watch the Fehrety Show and interview with Nick Saban, Tue, Nov 17, 5 - 6PM ET, Golf Channel. They discuss why Saban hired Kiffin. Saban discusses his system, process. When Saban hires coaches they're hired with the understanding they will coach his system, his offense, his defense. Saban is quite emphatic a couple of times, there are no Independent Contractors hired. Saban explains this way promotes consistency and success. As in the case of Kiffin, Kiffin is the only one who had to learn a new offense, not the 50 student athletes on the squad. Make no mistake, Lane Kiffin is coaching Nick Saban's offense, not Lane Kiffin's offense. This why Nick Saban and Bill Belichick (Saban comes from the Belichick tree and Fisher comes from the Saban tree) don't miss a beat and can change out coordinators like we do remote batteries and get excellent results. Rest assured that Josh McDaniel and Bill O'Brien were coaching the Belicick offense in New England and not any O'Brien McDaniel offense. Let me put it another way, Tom Brady has been running the same offense in New England since he arrived, the Bill Belichick offense.
 
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Texian said:
...I will stand by my comments that come day 2 or day 3 of the NFL draft and Jake Coker is still on the board, he should be given serious consideration to be drafted based on the facts that he's a pro style QB who has been coached by Jimbo Fisher and Nick Saban. It really doesn't get any better than that.
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It really does actually, as far as it relates to the NFL. Those are two great college coaches. Two great coaches that have been around for a looong time. If that's enough evidence for you to make a player evaluation then surely over that period of time you would be able to name one pro style QB that either Jimbo Fisher or Nick Saban coached that went on to have NFL success. Seriously, name just one.

The Alabama Lane Kiffin offense has been able to do more this year because of Coker's arm.... I will not be surprised if Jake Coker leads Alabama to a National Championship this year. Jake Coker and the Alabama Crimson Tide seem only to be getting better each and every week.
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False. Alabama's offense is averaging 50 less passing yards per game this year compared to what they did with noodle arm Blake Sims last year. Because of the lack of passing game, teams can focus more on the run. Despite having one of the top RBs in the entire country, they are averaging less rushing yards per game while actually running the ball more often than they did last year. They averaged over a half yard more per carry last year.

This year's version of Lane Kiffin's offense is averaging 61 yards per game less than last year, despite running more plays per game. They are averaging 1.1 yards less per play. They are averaging less first downs. They are averaging more penalties. They are averaging more turnovers despite having better luck with fumbles. Why? Because they are throwing more INTs.

So basically, by every single measurable statistic, the Alabama Lane Kiffin offense has been able to do significantly less this year. Which is odd, because you would expect a huge jump in production in year two of adjusting into a new offensive coordinator.

I wonder why it was that Blake Sims won the job last year. Hmm. Furthermore, if Alabama wins the National Championship it will not be because Coker led them there, no more than the noodle arm QBs who came before him led them there. Saban led them there. And while we're on that subject, the ability to win a college championship has absolutely nothing to do with evaluating a player for the NFL. This has been proven time and time again.

You're not always wrong. And you obviously have the right to whatever opinion you want. But basically what this thread has turned into is you having an opinion based on little or no facts and then you talking out of your ass to try to defend that opinion.
 
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bah007 said:
It really does actually, as far as it relates to the NFL. Those are two great college coaches. Two great coaches that have been around for a looong time. If that's enough evidence for you to make a player evaluation then surely over that period of time you would be able to name one pro style QB that either Jimbo Fisher or Nick Saban coached that went on to have NFL success. Seriously, name just one.



False. Alabama's offense is averaging 50 less passing yards per game this year compared to what they did with noodle arm Blake Sims last year. Because of the lack of passing game, teams can focus more on the run. Despite having one of the top RBs in the entire country, they are averaging less rushing yards per game while actually running the ball more often than they did last year. They averaged over a half yard more per carry last year.

This year's version of Lane Kiffin's offense is averaging 61 yards per game less than last year, despite running more plays per game. They are averaging 1.1 yards less per play. They are averaging less first downs. They are averaging more penalties. They are averaging more turnovers despite having better luck with fumbles. Why? Because they are throwing more INTs.

So basically, by every single measurable statistic, the Alabama Lane Kiffin offense has been able to do significantly less this year. Which is odd, because you would expect a huge jump in production in year two of adjusting into a new offensive coordinator.

I wonder why it was that Blake Sims won the job last year. Hmm. Furthermore, if Alabama wins the National Championship it will not be because Coker led them there, no more than the noodle arm QBs who came before him led them there. Saban led them there. And while we're on that subject, the ability to win a college championship has absolutely nothing to do with evaluating a player for the NFL. This has been proven time and time again.

You're not always wrong. And you obviously have the right to whatever opinion you want. But basically what this thread has turned into is you having an opinion based on little or no facts and then you talking out of your ass to try to defend that opinion.
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We disagree on many accounts, see my last two post to Wolverine for the reasons why. As for me talking out my ass, I'm not sure why you really had to go there, I did provide information about a Saban interview that you can watch that explains me and Saban talking out of our asses. That's more than most folks do. It also explains why you and Wolvrine have been wrongly informed about Lane Kiffen's offense in Alabama
 
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Texian said:
No, that's not right. You need to watch the Fehrety Show and interview with Nick Saban, Tue, Nov 17, 5 - 6PM ET, Golf Channel. They discuss why Saban hired Kiffin. Saban discusses his system, process. When Saban hires coaches they're hired with the understanding they will coach his system, his offense, his defense. Saban is quite emphatic a couple of times, there are no Independent Contractors hired. Saban explains this way promotes consistency and success. As in the case of Kiffin, Kiffin is the only one who had to learn a new offense, not the 50 student athletes on the squad. Make no mistake, Lane Kiffin is coaching Nick Saban's offense, not Lane Kiffin's offense. This why Nick Saban and Bill Belichick (Saban comes from the Belichick tree and Fisher comes from the Saban tree) don't miss a beat and change out coordinators like we do remote batteries and get excellent results. Rest assured that Josh McDaniel and Bill O'Brien were coaching the Belicick offense in New England and not any O'Brien McDaniel offense. Let me put it another way, Tom Brady has been running the same offense in New England since he arrived, the Bill Belichick offense.
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If it's Saban's offense then why is Bama running hurry-up no-huddle and using giant sign cards as signals from the sideline? Saban has never ever done that before and it's exactly what Kiffin did at Tennessee and USC.
 
Texian said:
We disagree on many accounts, see my last two post to Wolverine for the reasons why. As for me talking out my ass, I'm not sure why you really had to go there, I did provide information about a Saban interview that you can watch that explains me and Saban talking out of our asses. That's more than most folks do. It also explains why you and Wolvrine have been wrongly informed about Lane Kiffen's offense in Alabama
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Where did I mention a new offense?

All I mentioned was a new offensive coordinator. And the offense ran much better last year in year one with Blake Sims than they have in year two with Jake Coker. Fact.
 
WolverineFan said:
If it's Saban's offense then why is Bama running hurry-up no-huddle and using giant sign cards as signals from the sideline? Saban has never ever done that before and it's exactly what Kiffin did at Tennessee and USC.
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Watch Feherty's Saban interview. I'm just going off what Saban explained how things work to David Fehrety. It should come as no surprise this has been the Patriots Way, the Alabama/Saban Way and FSU/Fisher Way for quite some while. After you watch this Saban interview then we can talk more. Saban says categorically, on more than one occasion, there will be NO INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS.

It's possible that Kiffin has added a wrinkle or two to Saban's offense, with Saban's blessing and approval and if they're playing faster they're doing it with Saban's offense.
 
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bah007 said:
Where did I mention a new offense?

All I mentioned was a new offensive coordinator. And the offense ran much better last year in year one with Blake Sims than they have in year two with Jake Coker. Fact.
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Well if that's fact then there really is no reason for us to continue this conversation, is there? Bah has spoken.
 
What we have here is I clearly have ruffled a few feathers with some of those who have fallen madly in love with Jared Goff. Thou shalt not speak ill of Jared Goff or you will be bullied and called names because they disagree. So it is in the draftnik world which we have chosen where not one opinion is worth a cup of coffee and it's only November folks.....so much for civil discussion.
 
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Texian said:
What we have here is I clearly have ruffled a few feathers with some of those who have fallen madly in love with Jared Goff. Thou shalt not speak ill of Jared Goff or you will be bullied and called names because they disagree. So it is in the draftnik world where not one opinion is worth a cup of coffee and it's only November folks.....so much for civil discussion.
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Who's fallen madly in love with Goff? Where in the last few pages has that been shown?
 
Mollywhopper said:
Who's fallen madly in love with Goff? Where in the last few pages has that been shown?
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Seems to me the disagreement was about Coker, not Goff.

Not sure where anyone was bullied or called names either. Apparently civil discussion these days is to get offended when people who disagree with you bring facts to the discussion.
 
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