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Jared Goff

Personally I think Goff should come out now and then sit on the bench for 2-3 years like Rodgers did. He clearly has the tools but needs some time to grow so his mental tools can catch up to his physical tools. Unfortunately, that's not how the NFL works anymore and whoever drafts him is going to throw him into the lineup immediately and probably hinder his growth because he will spend the beginning of his career being overwhelmed by information instead of just absorbing it.
 
Texian said:
So true, however, he was drafted by a team with a brilliant GM and a HOF QB. Fortunate to spend 3 years behind Bret Farve learning his trade. I'm not sure that Goff will be afforded that same opportunity.
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Not that it matters much, but if memory serves, Brett wanted no part of mentoring the young Rogers. & I'm asking honestly, didn't they not get along? I remembering hearing some kind of animosity between the two.

Which is more to say McCarthy & his staff did a great job developing & preparing Rodgers.
 
thunderkyss said:
Not that it matters much, but if memory serves, Brett wanted no part of mentoring the young Rogers. & I'm asking honestly, didn't they not get along? I remembering hearing some kind of animosity between the two.

Which is more to say McCarthy & his staff did a great job developing & preparing Rodgers.
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I remember Brett saying that.

I also know that Rodgers has said he learned a lot from him. One thing in particular I heard during a game a couple of weeks ago was how Rodgers learned to throw without his feet on the ground from Brett....like while he was moving he'll do this little Junp throw instead of planting his feet to throw. He said it is to help avoid injuries.
 
bah007 said:
The only reason I prefer a QB have a certain number of starts is so that I have enough information to base my evaluation on.
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I'm guessing that number is 4.


LOL J/K couldn't resist. Seriously I've only watched this guy for one half and ouch 4 int's. Had to check back here and make sure i was watching the same guy. Wasn't what I was expecting after all the talk around here. I'm assuming that was a abnormal performance so I plan on watching more of him when I have time.
 
Early evaluation (first drive) most of Goff's throws he did not have his feet set. As a result he has missed some throws and affected accuracy. Goff's under 10 yd passes have been his best.

ADD: When Goff does set his feet he can be really good. Has made a couple of good passes after setting his feet. Problem is that doesn't happen often enough.
 
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Goff has 8 incompletions so far, 4 have been drops. The kid looks raw but he clearly has some tools.

Would be nice to see how good he could be if he had actual talent around him. His supporting cast is brutal.
 
Leading a comeback for his team in this game would do a lot for his draft stock, considering what happened last week. Nice fade throw there.
 
When I compare Goff to Cook and Wentz, Goff looks sloppy. At this point, Goff's best pass is a bubble screen.
 
PHILLYTEXANFAN said:
Texian, I know you said he should stay one more year, IMO it will only hurt him going forward
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I think he needs another year of seasoning as well. But I wouldn't want that to be at Cal. I think he should go pro and sit down for a year or two in the NFL like Rodgers did. Unfortunately, he will likely be the 1st QB drafted and whichever team drafts him will probably throw him right into the fire immediately.
 
Lucky said:
Yes, because Mariota has run so many more times (5) than Winston has (16). Still on the "Jameis is better than Marcus" bus? It must be pretty lonely in there.
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Lucky said:
Yes, I was high on Kaepernick and yes I am longer so. It's ok to be wrong, because we cant lose our jobs as virtual GMs. Just like it's ok to say you were wrong on Mariota. You've got nothing to lose.
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I wouldn't be so quick to say one is better than the other, or even if one is having the better year.

Winston:

17.83 Completions per game
26.83 Attempts per game
59% Completion percentage
245.16 Passing yards per game
8.1 Yards per attempt
1.5 Touchdown passes per game
0.83 Interceptions per game
0.16 Fumbles per game (1 total)
0 Lost fumbles
2 Sacks taken per game (12 total)
67 Yards rushing (3.2 YPC)
1 Rushing touchdown


Mariota:

20.6 Completions per game
32.3 Attempts per game
64% Completion percentage
247.8 Passing yards per game
7.7 Yards per attempt
1.8 Touchdown passes per game
1 Interception per game
1 Fumble per game (5 total)
0.8 Lost fumbles per game (4 total)
3.8 Sacks taken per game (19 total)
72 Yards rushing (7.2 YPC)
0 Rushing touchdowns

PFF, going into week 5, had the Titans offensive line ranked 17th and the Bucs offensive line ranked 28th.

Basically you've got Mariota playing better when the pocket is clean, and it's way more frequently clean than Winston's pocket, and usually he makes a very easy short to intermediate pass. The problem for Mariota is when he is pressured. He seems to have little awareness when things start falling apart, and it gets worse as pressure continues throughout a game.

Winston has been way better under pressure, taken less sacks, fumbled far less, thrown less interceptions per game, and thrown the ball down the field more. Winston's problem has been throwing interceptions, usually under pressure. But as we see, he's throwing less interceptions than Mariota.

Mariota has 9 turnovers to Winston's 5. Mariota has 9 touchdowns through 5 games and Winston has 10 touchdowns through 6 games.

Funny that the essence of Lucky's post was to demean someone for sticking by their opinion on Winston yet Lucky's opinion is proven completely incorrect.

The two players are having similar years and if you were to compare the two through such a short period of their career, Winston would be winning.
 
Forgive me if this has been asked before... but what separates Jared Goff from Bryce Petty?

This is the first game I've watched Goff, but looking at this offense, I'm thinking I've seen other folks run it better. Most recently, Bryce Petty.

Now, I know Petty went to Baylor & because of that anyone mentioning him will be treated as a Homer. However, I have no problem where Petty was drafted. Sounds about right.

My argument isn't that Petty should have been drafted higher, but that Goff shouldn't be.

Are we over exaggerating how good this guy is? It seems we even ignore his bad play, because we want a QB, any QB in the first round.
 
Another piss poor route by this Lawler kid that leads to another INT.

I think Goff is extremely talented but he is starting to develop some bad habits with the football. I honestly think it is because the team around him is so awful that he feels like he has to do everything. But you just can't take that mindset with you to the NFL or you'll be a turnover machine.
 
thunderkyss said:
Forgive me if this has been asked before... but what separates Jared Goff from Bryce Petty?

This is the first game I've watched Goff, but looking at this offense, I'm thinking I've seen other folks run it better. Most recently, Bryce Petty.

Now, I know Petty went to Baylor & because of that anyone mentioning him will be treated as a Homer. However, I have no problem where Petty was drafted. Sounds about right.

My argument isn't that Petty should have been drafted higher, but that Goff shouldn't be.

Are we over exaggerating how good this guy is? It seems we even ignore his bad play, because we want a QB, any QB in the first round.
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First, it's not the same offense. There isn't a huge gap in complexity, but this system is more comparable to what Geno Smith ran at West Virginia. Baylor only runs about six plays, and there are pretty much no reads for the QB. He is either throwing a screen or a go. This offense has a little bit more variety and definitely requires more NFL throws from the QB. That said, it's not a terribly complex offense at all. I actually wish Cal would give Goff more control.

The biggest problem with the comparison is the talent level between the two teams. Baylor's offense is littered with NFL players and Cal only has one, the QB. So the Baylor team has a huge advantage in protection and weapons for the QB. Cal also has to face far better defenses, on a level that isn't really even comparable. Goff will face more NFL defenders this season than Petty faced in his entire career.

Baylor's offense is a perfect fit for the talent base in Texas that they want to recruit, and it also suits the style of play in the Big XII. Cal's offense is being forced in a situation where it doesn't really fit. They don't have the personnel to run this system but they try to anyway.

Petty was probably the third or fourth best player on an offense that was absolutely loaded. Goff is the best player on his team by a huge margin. So it's hard to just put them side by side and compare that way. It's not an even playing field.
 
thunderkyss said:
Forgive me if this has been asked before... but what separates Jared Goff from Bryce Petty?

This is the first game I've watched Goff, but looking at this offense, I'm thinking I've seen other folks run it better. Most recently, Bryce Petty.

Now, I know Petty went to Baylor & because of that anyone mentioning him will be treated as a Homer. However, I have no problem where Petty was drafted. Sounds about right.

My argument isn't that Petty should have been drafted higher, but that Goff shouldn't be.

Are we over exaggerating how good this guy is? It seems we even ignore his bad play, because we want a QB, any QB in the first round.
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Both run an air raid type offense but Goff is typically making full field pre and post snap reads and has more autonomy on where he can go with the ball. Baylor runs a much more controlled offense where the reads are typically only half field and the coaches are signaling in to the QB who the read is.

For example, Baylor signals in a formation and then lines up with 25 seconds left on the play clock and then looks to the sidelines. The coaches then signal in what the play call is and the post-snap read is built into the play. The QB is not truly reading the defense. He's running the play the way it's designed to be run. The reason Baylor lines up in so many Trips formations is because it limits how the defense can react to it and each WR to the trips side has a play call designed for them. The coaches will see how the defense lines up and then signal in which WR they want the ball going to. The QB is basically an extension of the coaching staff. He has to make the throws obviously, but he's more of a robot than a free thinking gunslinger.

If you watch Cal you will see that, while their offense looks similar, they do not operate it in the same fashion. The play is called in from the sidelines but Goff is making the reads at the line of scrimmage.
 
I can't think of a reason for Goff to return for his senior year. He'd be better off in a NFL QB room and weight room getting ready for the 2017 season than another year at Cal. He's done all he can there and the talent won't be remarkably improved.
 
thunderkyss said:
Forgive me if this has been asked before... but what separates Jared Goff from Bryce Petty?

This is the first game I've watched Goff, but looking at this offense, I'm thinking I've seen other folks run it better. Most recently, Bryce Petty.

Now, I know Petty went to Baylor & because of that anyone mentioning him will be treated as a Homer. However, I have no problem where Petty was drafted. Sounds about right.

My argument isn't that Petty should have been drafted higher, but that Goff shouldn't be.

Are we over exaggerating how good this guy is? It seems we even ignore his bad play, because we want a QB, any QB in the first round.
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Let me give you my somewhat of a contrarian view since I am one of few that is not on the Goff bandwagon. With Jared Goff as is it happens all to often someone like Kiper publishes his preseason Top 5 and proclaims a QB #1 and the next coming of some great QB. In this case it was Goff and Aaron Rodgers. From there we're off to the races and every amateur draftnik has jumped on the Goff is the next franchise QB savior train. As is the case much of the time these pundits also get wrong over 80% of the time.

My perspective on Goff the QB, Jared would be 2 years behind the learning curve and Cook and Wentz. Your eyes didn't deceive you watching Goff's bad play. His play does look sloppy and that's because Goff's footwork is terrible, 80% of his passes are under 10 yds because of the system he plays in and that inflates his completion %. His TD to INT Ratio is barely over 2 and in college should be well over 3 for any perspective 1st Rd pick. Goff does go thru a pre snap read of the defense but once the ball is snapped most of the time he makes a one look pass. Rarely does he go thru a progression and look for 2nd WR. Usually if his first look is not there he drops his eyes and starts looking for where to run. Goff does not have good pocket presence or awareness. Against the better competition these last 3 weeks his accuracy could be much better. His first few game Goffs played the weak sisters but since playing the meat of the schedule he has looked kind of ordinary. You're right on two occasions, at this stage Petty was a better prospect and two Goff is not at this point a 1st rd draft prospect. Goff has failed to deliver and rally his team in the 4th Q like most good QBs do.

Goff should return to school for the simple reason it would give him actual playing time and experience for another 12-13 games and he would also be more mature and ready for his chance in the NFL.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would say Goff is a first rd QB after watching his last 3 games. Right now Goff as a first rd pick has a high probability of getting a head coach and/or a GM fired.
 
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Texian said:
Let me give you my somewhat of a contrarian view since I am one of few that is not on the Goff bandwagon. With Jared Goff as is it happens all to often someone like Kiper publishes his preseason Top 5 and proclaims a QB #1 and the next coming of some great QB. In this case it was Goff. From there we're off to the races and every amateur draftnik has jumped on the Goff is the next franchise QB savior train. As is the case much of the time these pundits also get wrong over 80% of the time.

My perspective on Goff the QB, Jared would be 2 years behind the learning curve and Cook and Wentz. Your eyes didn't deceive you watching Goff's bad play. His play does look sloppy and that's because Goff's footwork is terrible, 80% of his passes are under 10 yds because of the system he plays in and that inflates his completion %. His TD to INT Ratio is barely over 2 and in college should be well over 3. Goff does go thru a pre snap read of the defense but once the ball is snapped most of the time he makes a one look pass. Rarely does he go thru a progression and look for 2nd WR. Usually if his first look is not there he drops his eyes and starts looking for where to run. Goff does not have good pocket presence or awareness. Against the better competition these last 3 weeks his accuracy could be much better. His first few game Goffs played the weak sisters but but since playing the meat of the schedule he has looked kind of ordinary. You're right on two occasions, at this stage Petty was a better prospect and two Goff is not at this point a 1st rd draft prospect. Goff has failed to deliver and rally his team in the 4th Q like most good QBs do.

Goff should return to school for the simple reason it would give him actual playing time and experience for another 12-13 games and he would also be more mature and ready for his chance in the NFL.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would say Goff is a first rd QB after watching his last 3 games.
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I don't agree with any of that bolded part. He does throw a lot of quick screens and pop passes which don't require progressions. That's built into every offensive system, his offense just runs a lot more of them. On his deep drops though you can see him going through reads and progressions. Full field reads I might add. I also think his pocket presence is fantastic. Probably the biggest positive in his game is his ability to maneuver in the pocket and stay calm while under pressure. The pick six against USC and the 3rd quarter INT against Utah are the only 2 times I've seen his decision making affected by pressure on 300+ pass attempts and he's under pressure a lot.

I do agree that a lot of people who don't do their own research jumped onto Goff as soon as Kiper opened his mouth. I also agree that he is definitely behind Cook as far as being NFL ready (haven't watched much of Wentz). I think he has clear translatable NFL tools, but he is also raw. I agree that an extra year in school would theoretically do him well although I disagree that an extra year at Cal would. I think a year or two on an NFL bench would suit him better than returning to his situation at Cal. The problem is whoever drafts him isn't going to sit him on the bench.
 
Anyone remember Matt Ryans last year? It was bad enough for Parcells to pass, take long and then henne in the 2nd rd. Whrn you take a qb, you take him develop and progress with tools. I havent seen a perfect qb coming out of college yet and that includes peyton,luck,or evrn elway. GB were up in the air about rogers. How do I know? The same year the traded Favre to hand rogers the keys, they drafted a qb in the 2nd and 7th rd. Even as bad as Bortles is playing, you have to keep developing him if want a chance to be a consistent playoff team.

Is goff perfect? No. I think he's talented and I like alot about him despite some of his struggles. I look at qbs like this, can he win without everything being good around him?
 
leebigeztx said:
Is goff perfect? No. I think he's talented and I like alot about him despite some of his struggles. I look at qbs like this, can he win without everything being good around him?
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The answer is NO, not against the better competition (see last 3 games), he looks kind of average and ordinary.
 
Goff Time! Show us something Jared!

1st pass almost an INT, 2nd overthrows screen.

Q1 12:21 7 yd pass roll out to R , TD
 
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Just turned this game off. Cal is so friggin terrible it's hurting Goff. He's made a bad throw here and there, but his WRs drop so many catchable balls. Staying another year will put the final nail in the coffin for him due to Cal being a very very bad team.
 
Goff is trying wayyy too hard. I'm sympathetic because his team is garbage but he is developing some really bad habits.

On the other hand, if he goes pro I could see Cal going 0-12 next year. Sonny Dykes has no clue what he's doing.
 
He throws a beautiful intermediate and deep ball. His ball placement on passes over 15 yards is incredible. He doesn't complete even half of them though because his WR's drop a ton of passes and do not help him out whatsoever.

As bah pointed out though, he is developing some bad habits. Trying to do way too much. Throwing passes into windows that he has no business throwing into. That desperation is seeping in as Cal's season is slowly unraveling before their eyes. They have zero playmakers on their team and he is forcing the issue by trying to make up for that. You can't make up for not having playmakers, you just have to make do.
 
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