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Jared Goff

Texian said:
The 2nd INT, I know you blamed the WR, I didn't so we disagree here.
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I can see that. The ball was a bit ahead of him which gave the DB a chance to make a play on it.

I watched it a few times and it looked like Lawler hesitated halfway through the route and that's why the ball ended up so far out in front. Maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see though.
 
Not his best game. Threw a 5th pick in the 4th quarter. That was really his only throw of the night that I thought was affected by pressure. He came out of a playaction fake and had 2 guys in his face and forced a pass to a guy that was bracketed underneath.

The turnovers were obviously an issue but I did like his poise. He was under constant pressure all night and I thought he handled it well for the most part. Sounds crazy saying this because he had 5 turnovers but Cal doesn't have a prayer of winning this game without him. The fact that they were inside the 20 with 30 seconds left with a chance to win was impressive. Too bad that WR flat out dropped the 3rd & 5 pass because it was a sure 1st down and would have given them a chance for 4 shots at the end zone to win.

I really like his arm talent but there are clearly some issues to work out. He reacted well to pressure but he also got a bit greedy and tried to force a few passes that just weren't there. Gotta be smart. Can't win games when you turn the ball over that many times.
 
This may sound bias because I like the kid, but this may have been good for him. That begs that he overcome what happened tonight of course. They were running such a well oiled machine that I'm hoping this brings a bit of focus on tightening singular issues up instead of thinking the ship was coasting somewhere.

The talent isn't going anywhere. If he can learn from this and find another gear to go to when things get off script more the upside could stil be fantastic.

Maybe I'm leaning on the optimistic, but I still favor the kid barring him curling up in a ball off of this, which he didn't indicate a lick throughout the game.
 
Mollywhopper said:
This may sound bias because I like the kid, but this may have been good for him. That begs that he overcome what happened tonight of course. They were running such a well oiled machine that I'm hoping this brings a bit of focus on tightening singular issues up instead of thinking the ship was coasting somewhere.

The talent isn't going anywhere. If he can learn from this and find another gear to go to when things get off script more the upside could stil be fantastic.

Maybe I'm leaning on the optimistic, but I still favor the kid barring him curling up in a ball off of this, which he didn't indicate a lick throughout the game.
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I like the way he responded in the 2nd half and I like how he immediately drove his team down to the red zone after that last turnover. He was under constant pressure all night and handled it pretty well for the most part. Also made some very impressive throws as well. That first TD was a thing of beauty.

I'm probably biased about him as well but I'm sure people will just look at the box score tomorrow and just assume he was awful and that couldn't be any further from the truth. They lost by 6 points despite turning the ball over 6 times on the road against the #5 team in the country. Without him playing, Cal loses this game by 4-5 scores easy.
 
I really have no bias. If I do have a bias it is to find the best QB. From that perspective what I saw is Goff is a Sonny Dykes system QB. Most of his passes were under 5 yds all from the shotgun. Dink and dunk variety. Accuracy in passes in the 10-20yd range was somewhat disappointing and over 20 yds he really had no touch. Most of the throws he made tonight were predetermined. Goff had the chance to deliver a game winning drive but failed turning the ball over on downs. Definitely NOT a first rd pick at this stage. For two unbeaten teams this far in to the season this was not very good football. I expected better.
 
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I just want to point something out that's been bothering me. As Goff gets more attention from the national media I see more and more misinformation from national draftniks who are too lazy to do their research.

Did you guys know that Goff plays in the exact same passing offense that Jameis Winston did? I brought this up leading up to the past draft and it was mostly ignored, although some people did try to argue with me even though I have done the research and they clearly hadn't.

The offenses are dressed up differently. The running games are drastically different. Cal is almost exclusively in the Shotgun. FSU runs less screens and draws and they use the TE more.

But the core concepts in the passing game are identical. And I don't mean that as an exaggeration. They are literally identical. Same pre snap reads, same route tree, same options and audibles. Even the same terminology. They even run a lot of the same plays, just from different formations with different personnel groupings.

And yet Winston was "pro style" and Goff is a "gimmick".
 
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As far as the game, Goff's performance was pretty much worst case scenario.

And even though he was more unlucky than he was bad, he still had three turnovers that were straight up his fault. And the other two weren't totally on him, but he probably has to share in the blame. He's the QB.

The last one was brutal. Absolutely no excuse for that decision, especially after the mistakes he had already made.

If that's his only bad decision from the game, fine. But it wasn't.

You absolutely have to learn from your mistakes. No excuse. Worst performance I've ever seen from him (obviously).
 
Color me unimpressed. I cannot tell you what system he plays in. I can only tell you by what I saw in the game. He is not an NFL QB or even close. Now Booker was impressive. The kid from TCU looked way better yesterday - Boykin (?). The WR from TCU - do not remember his name, but he looked good also.
 
WolverineFan said:
I'll take a lesser Mariota any day. "Analysts" crushed him pre-draft and labeled him a system QB while anointing Winston as being 'more pro ready'. Meanwhile, people who actually did their homework saw huge flaws in Winston's game and saw extremely encouraging things in Mariota's film in regards to poise, awareness, and accuracy.

Ignore the offensive system and just study the player. Goff has top notch pocket awareness, accuracy, ball placement, and he goes through his reads lightning quick without missing anything. He's the total package.
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My opinion isn't based on anything analyst have said. Tbh, I don't keep up with that stuff so i am not sure what the consensus was about these prospects.

I still like Winston more than Mariota and I even said I expected Mariota to have more early success but in the long run I'd take Winston.

I think Mariota is closer to an RG3, Karpernick. I'd put VY and Vick into that category too. I'd throw Manziel in there too though he had other troubles.

My comparison between these players is that they aren't traditional drop back qb's. They come into the NFL and may have a bunch of early success because they are given a playbook customized to their athletic skill set or something similar to what they ran in college. But at some point when they try to transition to a more pro style offense they don't look as good or completely fall off.

I know Bah said that the offense Goff is running is the same as FSU's but to me they do not look the same. One qb is operating it differently than the other if that is true.

I prefer the way Winston operated it but that's just my preference. I think Winstons style of play is more conducive to long term success in the NFL.

The post I wrote yesterday was before this supposed not so good game he had. I didn't watch the game and as I noted originally, these are initial impressions. I haven't dug in on these guys.

But just from initial impressions and the bit of film I've seen I like Wentz more as a pro prospect.
 
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Grams said:
Color me unimpressed. I cannot tell you what system he plays in. I can only tell you by what I saw in the game. He is not an NFL QB or even close. Now Booker was impressive. The kid from TCU looked way better yesterday - Boykin (?). The WR from TCU - do not remember his name, but he looked good also.
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Doctson
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I still like Winston more than Mariota and I even said I expected Mariota to have more early success but in the long run I'd take Winston.

I think Mariota is closer to an RG3, Karpernick. I'd put VY and Vick into that category too. I'd throw Manziel in there too though he had other troubles.
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Yes, because Mariota has run so many more times (5) than Winston has (16). Still on the "Jameis is better than Marcus" bus? It must be pretty lonely in there.
 
Lucky said:
Yes, because Mariota has run so many more times (5) than Winston has (16). Still on the "Jameis is better than Marcus" bus? It must be pretty lonely in there.
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I'm giving my opinion. You were very high on Kaepernick when he came out. Are you still on that bus?

Sometimes we are wrong. But it won't stop me from stating what I believe at the moment.

And I didn't say Anything about running. I am talking about them throwing the ball. Not even sure what you are talking about with that running stat. Who cares?
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I'm giving my opinion. You were very high on Kaepernick when he came out. Are you still on that bus?

Sometimes we are wrong. But it won't stop me from stating what I believe at the moment.
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Yes, I was high on Kaepernick and yes I am longer so. It's ok to be wrong, because we cant lose our jobs as virtual GMs. Just like it's ok to say you were wrong on Mariota. You've got nothing to lose.
 
Texian said:
Doctson
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He's my 2nd rounder and is absolutely a knock out player. He constantly goes and gets the ball and makes his QB look better. I am not impressed over much with any college QB. I find Nate Sudfel and he gets ankle injury; watching Indiana yesterday hoping he'd return but no.. and Hackenberg is quickly losing my interest. I am wanting a game changer that can score..and I don't have a WR better than Doctson (2nd round) looking at Elliott.

Goff is not off my board but needs to come roaring back.
 
Texian said:
I really have no bias. If I do have a bias it is to find the best QB. From that perspective what I saw is Goff is a Sonny Dykes system QB. Most of his passes were under 5 yds all from the shotgun. Dink and dunk variety. Accuracy in passes in the 10-20yd range was somewhat disappointing and over 20 yds he really had no touch. Most of the throws he made tonight were predetermined. Goff had the chance to deliver a game winning drive but failed turning the ball over on downs. Definitely NOT a first rd pick at this stage. For two unbeaten teams this far in to the season this was not very good football. I expected better.
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Sounds eerily like my critique of mallet around game 3 this year...
 
Goff
Cook
Wentz

Goff kinda reminds me of Matt Ryan. I watched him play against Utah this past weekend & as silly as this sounds, he didn't play as bad as his 5 int game would suggest. 1 int wasn't his fault, at least 1 TD dropped amongst a myriad of other passes & he didn't get a whole lot of help from his the running game and his team...he was under constant pressure from Utah and they were behind pretty much all game as well. The only reason Cal had a chance to win at the end was b/c he kept making plays with his arm and his feet.
 
Mr teX said:
Goff
Cook
Wentz

Goff kinda reminds me of Matt Ryan. I watched him play against Utah this past weekend & as silly as this sounds, he didn't play as bad as his 5 int game would suggest. 1 int wasn't his fault, at least 1 TD dropped amongst a myriad of other passes & he didn't get a whole lot of help from his the running game and his team...he was under constant pressure from Utah and they were behind pretty much all game as well. The only reason Cal had a chance to win at the end was b/c he kept making plays with his arm and his feet.
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He reminded me of Mallett in that he has good arm and can throw to all areas of field just not necessarily within a receiver's grasp. Also as does Mallett, Goff occasionally makes one of those highlight reel passes that causes everyone to catch their breath; just not as often as he makes a play where everyone loses breath as if gut punched, also like Mallett.

Pressure from Utah is what he will attract in the NFL and allows us to evaluate him in that regard..and he failed. A franchise QB (not saying he is) is supposed to keep his team in the game and if he had been "the guy" as others (not only on this MB) have hinted, team would not have been behind due to those plays he was responsible for. I will watch him for a while but from what I have seen he needs to take out an insurance policy and return to school next year.
 
Mr teX said:
Goff
Cook
Wentz

Goff kinda reminds me of Matt Ryan. I watched him play against Utah this past weekend & as silly as this sounds, he didn't play as bad as his 5 int game would suggest. 1 int wasn't his fault, at least 1 TD dropped amongst a myriad of other passes & he didn't get a whole lot of help from his the running game and his team...he was under constant pressure from Utah and they were behind pretty much all game as well. The only reason Cal had a chance to win at the end was b/c he kept making plays with his arm and his feet.
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The otber team turning it over as much as they did helped also. That's probably more of a factor than anything positive Goff did.
 
badboy said:
He reminded me of Mallett in that he has good arm and can throw to all areas of field just not necessarily within a receiver's grasp. Also as does Mallett, Goff occasionally makes one of those highlight reel passes that causes everyone to catch their breath; just not as often as he makes a play where everyone loses breath as if gut punched, also like Mallett.

Pressure from Utah is what he will attract in the NFL and allows us to evaluate him in that regard..and he failed. A franchise QB (not saying he is) is supposed to keep his team in the game and if he had been "the guy" as others (not only on this MB) have hinted, team would not have been behind due to those plays he was responsible for. I will watch him for a while but from what I have seen he needs to take out an insurance policy and return to school next year.
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Not constant pressure like he was under Saturday night and newsflash, you're bound to turn it over a few times when you're chunking the ball upwards of 40 times a game like he has this season. That's why my gut tells me that Dykes is asking him to do too much. Against the Utes, he was closer to 50 attempts...............while running for his life most of the night as well. If you shave his attempts down by say 6-8 and give him a bit better protection and a run game, he's got great potential and his accuracy is damn good. As i said, he reminds me of a more athletic Matt Ryan...I'll stand to be corrected if he has a similar game against #18 UCLA this coming weekend.
 
I'm not going to try to spin that performance into a positive. You just can't be that careless with the ball. It doesn't matter if your coach is asking too much of you. That last pick is the one that sticks with me. You just can't have that.

I'll just caution that I don't think you should form your opinion based on just one game. For a lot of you this was your first time seeing Goff. I understand this game leaves a bad taste in your mouth but from Goff's body of work I believe that it is an anomaly.

I remember when Drew Brees was a senior at Purdue he had a 4 INT game and a 3 INT game. The other ten or so games combined he only had like 5 INTs. Make a mental note of this game. Remember the things you saw that you didn't like. And then see if these things continue as a pattern. If they do then you have to move on.

But if it's just a one-off worst case scenario, I think it would be a mistake to write him off based on just the one game.
 
bah007 said:
I'm not going to try to spin that performance into a positive. You just can't be that careless with the ball. It doesn't matter if your coach is asking too much of you. That last pick is the one that sticks with me. You just can't have that.

I'll just caution that I don't think you should form your opinion based on just one game. For a lot of you this was your first time seeing Goff. I understand this game leaves a bad taste in your mouth but from Goff's body of work I believe that it is an anomaly.

I remember when Drew Brees was a senior at Purdue he had a 4 INT game and a 3 INT game. The other ten or so games combined he only had like 5 INTs. Make a mental note of this game. Remember the things you saw that you didn't like. And then see if these things continue as a pattern. If they do then you have to move on.

But if it's just a one-off worst case scenario, I think it would be a mistake to write him off based on just the one game.
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He almost pulled off a win despite playing terrible for 3 qtrs.

This is the mark of a good QB. Although staying another yr would probably really help Goff. If I were in Goff's situation I would go pro so I wouldn't end up like Chubb/Lattimore etc....
 
Well, he still has more than a half of a season to improve, so I think that statement by Gabriel is not timely. Perhaps you could say that at the end of the season, but not right now.

I haven't had a chance to watch Goff play outside of that Utah game, but I liked what I saw. He's got good accuracy for the most part, I think he just made a few poor throws in that game, probably because of the pressure. Let's see how he learns from that game and then applies it, because that's the mark of a good young quarterback. Learning and improving is the key to a guy with loads of arm and head talent. We often hear posters throwing 20-22 year old guys off their radar for poor performances, but the truth is that they are still learning key concepts. That goes for NFL and college players in this age group.
 
bah007 said:
I'm not going to try to spin that performance into a positive. You just can't be that careless with the ball. It doesn't matter if your coach is asking too much of you. That last pick is the one that sticks with me. You just can't have that.

I'll just caution that I don't think you should form your opinion based on just one game. For a lot of you this was your first time seeing Goff. I understand this game leaves a bad taste in your mouth but from Goff's body of work I believe that it is an anomaly.
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From what I saw, the guy has real NFL talent. He made a few throws that were intelligent and accurate. I generally liked the way he carried himself. But he isn't ready. I generally don't like when guys come out early at the QB position. They need at least 4 years in college to develop, generally. Goff is a true junior, so he has a head start on most, but he needs his senior season, IMO. As you said, it's all based on this one game and a few of those film cut-up articles and some YouTube highlights, but seems to me he needs more seasoning.
 
eriadoc said:
From what I saw, the guy has real NFL talent. He made a few throws that were intelligent and accurate. I generally liked the way he carried himself. But he isn't ready. I generally don't like when guys come out early at the QB position. They need at least 4 years in college to develop, generally. Goff is a true junior, so he has a head start on most, but he needs his senior season, IMO. As you said, it's all based on this one game and a few of those film cut-up articles and some YouTube highlights, but seems to me he needs more seasoning.
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I go back and forth with this but generally favor a guy coming out if he can be a 1st round pick...which in Goff's case he most definitely would be. I think his biggest challenge coming out would be his age & slight build. But because i generally favor sitting qbs for at least a year upon entering the NFL, i don't see why he couldn't get paid sitting on the bench for a year learning how to play the game on the NFL level.
 
I don't think staying makes any sense if the big criticism is this "gimmick" offense that he plays in. What exactly would going back fix? The only reason I prefer a QB have a certain number of starts is so that I have enough information to base my evaluation on. By the end of the year, Goff will have put enough on tape for that.

I only advocate for a guy to go back if I see a problem that can be cured with natural physical or mental development. Otherwise, he'd be better off with a pro coach helping him instead of a college coach.
 
Lucky said:
But what will one more year in his college offense do for Goff? Wouldn't he be better off in the NFL, studying a pro offense with pro coaching?
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I will go with the conventional wisdom (which I mostly agree) a college QB is better prepared (experience) for the NFL and will have a higher degree of success if they have 30 starts under their belts.
 
Lucky said:
But what will one more year in his college offense do for Goff? Wouldn't he be better off in the NFL, studying a pro offense with pro coaching?
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I think it depends on the coach. If the coach is giving him more & more responsibilities in the offense, then that extra year could help a lot. If the coach has given him as much control as he's going to get... not so much.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think it depends on the coach. If the coach is giving him more & more responsibilities in the offense, then that extra year could help a lot. If the coach has given him as much control as he's going to get... not so much.
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Barring injury Goff's going to have at the end of this season over 35 college starts under his belt in the same offense. Probably time to grow and adapt from there. Especially when your draft status is already the top QB coming out.
 
I would suggest that everyone take a step back and take a deep breath before becoming completely infatuated with Goff. Put that school boy crush on hold.

Two weeks after the draft Kiper had Goff as his top rated QB on his BIG Board. Another ESPN writer compared Goff to the next coming of Aaron Rodgers and the stampede was on. Soon after just about every amateur and media draftnik was on the Goff bandwagon and many had never seen him play. Let the Goff love affair begin for every potential Top 5 team in the 2016 draft.

Relax, let's see what he can do against some good competition in the 2nd half of the season. The next six weeks will answer a lot of questions about Jared Goff.

You have 7 videos of games that show every throw. Draw 1 big box with 9 boxes inside the big box and chart each throw, Attempts, Completion, Accuracy. Make a note was that an NFL throw or spread system dink and dunk. Be honest, be fair, don't grade on a scale of what you want to happen, grade on what actually happens.

Don't confuse great spread system stats for a highly skilled athlete. More often than not spread system QBs make for bad NFL draft picks.

Last week he had a chance to deliver a game winning drive but failed to do so turning the ball over on downs. In researching Goff's history I didn't find where he has delivered a game winning drive. He has won once in overtime.

Goff is 11- 19 as Cal's QB. The 30 game measuring stick doesn't necessarily make you Aaron Rodgers after 30 games. You can still be Ryan Leaf after 30 starts in a spread system. At this stage right now, Goff has more similarities to David Carr than Aaron Rodgers.

Let's enjoy his 6 games and then be able to make more intelligent decisions about Goff now that he's on most everyone's radar.
 
You're setting yourselves up for a bad, bad heart break.

We won't draft Goff, or Cook, or any other first round QB. Not while we've got Hoyer under contract... I believe till the end of O'Brien's term.
 
thunderkyss said:
You're setting yourselves up for a bad, bad heart break.

We won't draft Goff, or Cook, or any other first round QB. Not while we've got Hoyer under contract... I believe till the end of O'Brien's term.
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I don't think he'll draft any of these qb's either. But that's just a feeling I have.

I think he'll be content with Hoyer and Savage.
 
Lucky said:
BTW, Aaron Rodgers started 25 games at Cal.
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So true, however, he was drafted by a team with a brilliant GM and a HOF QB. Fortunate to spend 3 years behind Bret Farve learning his trade. I'm not sure that Goff will be afforded that same opportunity.
 
Texian said:
So true, however, he was drafted by a team with a brilliant GM and a HOF QB. Fortunate to spend 3 years behind Bret Farve learning his trade. I'm not sure that Goff will be afforded that same opportunity.
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Who let's be honest, fell into Rodgers. They get credit for taking him when they didn't "need" him. But that was blind hog finding a truffle.
 
infantrycak said:
Who let's be honest, fell into Rodgers. They get credit for taking him when they didn't "need" him. But that was blind hog finding a truffle.
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Infantrycak.....you.........ARE THE FATHER.

and exactly why I said that Goff would not likely be afforded that same opportunity.
 
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