Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

infantrycak said:
The Texans have the least arrests since 2000 (and of course we are three seasons short) but here is a list and I see no correlation between good teams and high arrests (if anything the opposite).

Link

Teams - playoff wins (2002 on):

Most arrests:
Cincinnati 42 - 0
Denver 39 - 4
Minnesota 44 - 2
Tennessee 34 - 2
Tampa 31 - 3

Least arrests:
Houston 9 - 2
Arizona 13 - 4
Philadelphia 13 - 7
New York Jets 13 - 6
St. Louis 11 - 1

And just for giggles, the winningest team is at the low end with 16.
Click to expand...

I wonder if you subtract Kenny Britt and Pacman where Tennessee is....I think those two alone were 15.
 
The1ApplePie said:
Even if you don't count out Winston for being a probable rapist, he is still a less mature Johnny Football, or a dumber Vince Young
Click to expand...

A dumber Vince Young? VY wishes he was as smart as Winston on the football and was as smart in the classroom as Winston off the field. I really hope these rape allegations are not true, because that is honestly the only thing giving me pause. I would take the chance without that because the other stuff is just immaturity. Winston is going to be a good NFL QB. He actually reads defenses and goes through progressions, unlike a Manziel.
 
steelbtexan said:
What the Texans really need is for a team to give up on a vet QB like the 49ers did with Smith or the Raiders did with Palmer.
Click to expand...

So the 49ers ditch the veteran QB & go on to a Super Bowl appearance, but we need to do what the Chiefs (who's team is about where we are now), & the Raiders (who didn't even get to 8-8 with Palmer... ok, maybe they did).

Sorry, I'm not following. 11-5, that was fool's gold. That was their schedule. KC is not an upper echelon team. They will finish third in their division, only because Oakland can't hide their suck as well as KC can.
 
bah007 said:
As usual, Cosell and I are on the same page.

I have a 2nd round grade on him. And the only reason he's that high is because QB is such an important position.
Click to expand...

I've been saying this for awhile. This guy is so over rated it's ridiculous. He makes horrible decisions when under pressure.
 
Talent wise, I definitely think he's a first round pick.

I think Mariota is overrated. Actually, I don't know where to rate him. Can't tell a lot based on the offense.
 
Cosell is overly critical of QB prospects. The perfect QB prospect comes out of college once every decade. The rest have warts. Who can overcome these shortcomings in the NFL become stars. Winston has talent. Mariota has talent. QBs from the previous class have talent. How they respond to pro coaching determines whether that talent will be realized.

Drafting a QB is like buying a lotto ticket. They aren't sure things. But if you don't play the lotto, you have no chance to win. No matter what, you have to play.
 
Lucky said:
Cosell is overly critical of QB prospects. The perfect QB prospect comes out of college once every decade. The rest have warts. Who can overcome these shortcomings in the NFL become stars. Winston has talent. Mariota has talent. QBs from the previous class have talent. How they respond to pro coaching determines whether that talent will be realized.

Drafting a QB is like buying a lotto ticket. They aren't sure things. But if you don't play the lotto, you have no chance to win. No matter what, you have to play.
Click to expand...

Winston was my #1 rated QB coming into this yr. Now Mariota is #1. I think Mariota will become a better version of Kaepernick next yr and has the potential to become as good as Wilson or in a different way Luck.

Mariota has matured a lot this yr and is only scratching the surface of his ability.
 
mussop said:
I've been saying this for awhile. This guy is so over rated it's ridiculous. He makes horrible decisions when under pressure.
Click to expand...

He makes horrible decisions regardless of pressure, he plays in a very simple QB friendly offense, and he can't read coverage at all.

I still fail to see what people love about this guy other than that he can throw far. He is surrounded by NFL talent at every position on offense, and they still have trouble scoring points due to poor QB play.

JaMarcus Russell 2.0 without the drug problem.
 
Lucky said:
Cosell is overly critical of QB prospects. The perfect QB prospect comes out of college once every decade. The rest have warts. Who can overcome these shortcomings in the NFL become stars. Winston has talent. Mariota has talent. QBs from the previous class have talent. How they respond to pro coaching determines whether that talent will be realized.

Drafting a QB is like buying a lotto ticket. They aren't sure things. But if you don't play the lotto, you have no chance to win. No matter what, you have to play.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I don't think he is overly critical. I think it's actually the opposite. Rule changes over the years have made things so much easier for offenses that people have started to reduce their expectations of what a QB should be and what skills are important. People aren't critical enough and they make stupid decisions and throw away tons of money on guys who are never going to succeed.

I do agree with you that a combination of talent and coachability is required.

Your last paragraph is true, but it is also simplifying things. Yes, you do have to eventually take a chance on a QB if you are ever going to win the lotto. But that doesn't mean that it's a total crapshoot. There is a reason why it's always the same type of guys winning.

Every single Super Bowl winning QB as far back as I can remember has had the ability to do three things:

1) Diagnose a defense
2) Make good decisions in a very small window of time
3) Throw accurate passes

Winston can do one of those things on a good day. Some people see that, and some people are blinded by a guy with perfect size, a perfect arm, and a near perfect team around him making him look better than he really is.
 
When it comes down to it, time to win the game, time to produce, give me Winston every time. He wins games with his arm and has never failed to produce a victory. You can analyze all you want but he is undefeated in college, pure and simple. He has an unique ability to put the past behind him. I've never seen someone who approaches every snap with the same confidence, despite how the game has been going or how the season has been going, and I believe that ability is unique.
 
TexansSeminole said:
When it comes down to it, time to win the game, time to produce, give me Winston every time. He wins games with his arm and has never failed to produce a victory. You can analyze all you want but he is undefeated in college, pure and simple. He has an unique ability to put the past behind him. I've never seen someone who approaches every snap with the same confidence, despite how the game has been going or how the season has been going, and I believe that ability is unique.
Click to expand...

I'm not doubting any of that but Vince Young had that as well. Winston has had an amazing college career and I would never try to take that away and act like it didn't happen.

I am strictly talking about how I see him translating to the NFL. The way he plays undeniably works for him at Florida St. I do not see it working at the next level.
 
TexansSeminole said:
When it comes down to it, time to win the game, time to produce, give me Winston every time. He wins games with his arm and has never failed to produce a victory. You can analyze all you want but he is undefeated in college, pure and simple. He has an unique ability to put the past behind him. I've never seen someone who approaches every snap with the same confidence, despite how the game has been going or how the season has been going, and I believe that ability is unique.
Click to expand...

I agree. Not going to guarantee him success at the next level, but I'd take my chances on his talent. Now that other stuff is something else to consider. But just from a talent perspective and the way he approaches the game, I like him.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I agree. Not going to guarantee him success at the next level, but I'd take my chances on his talent. Now that other stuff is something else to consider. But just from a talent perspective and the way he approaches the game, I like him.
Click to expand...

He's definitely talented. But before I use a first or second on him I'd have to have a sit down with him. I don't think much of the crab leg thing, the standing on the table thing, or even the rape allegation.... but when I listen to him in interviews I really have to question his intelligence & from what I gather (from watching those interviews) there may be more to those incidents than not.

So far, I think he makes VY look like a Rhodes scholar.
 
thunderkyss said:
He's definitely talented. But before I use a first or second on him I'd have to have a sit down with him. I don't think much of the crab leg thing, the standing on the table thing, or even the rape allegation.... but when I listen to him in interviews I really have to question his intelligence & from what I gather (from watching those interviews) there may be more to those incidents than not.

So far, I think he makes VY look like a Rhodes scholar.
Click to expand...

He seems fake to me. Disingenuous.

I'd rather have mariota all things considered.
 
thunderkyss said:
He's definitely talented. But before I use a first or second on him I'd have to have a sit down with him. I don't think much of the crab leg thing, the standing on the table thing, or even the rape allegation.... but when I listen to him in interviews I really have to question his intelligence & from what I gather (from watching those interviews) there may be more to those incidents than not.

So far, I think he makes VY look like a Rhodes scholar.
Click to expand...

You kidding? VY couldn't even read and can barely speak English. Winston was a 4.0 student in HS and is apparently carrying a 3.0 at FSU. Everything I have heard is that he is very intelligent at least from a book smart perspective. However that said, he obviously lacks common sense and good judgement.

Also, Seminole said Winston just wins games with his arm, that wasn't so with Vince. Take away Vince's running ability and no one would have ever heard of him. I would shy away from any QB that relies on his mobility for success. We have seen them over and over again fail at the NFL level.
 
Hookem Horns said:
Winston was a 4.0 student in HS and is apparently outstanding in the classroom at FSU. Everything I have heard is that he is very intelligent at least from a book smart perspective.
Click to expand...

I'm shocked. Never would have guessed it. Like I said, I'd have to sit down with him & have a conversation before I would make up my mind.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm shocked. Never would have guessed it. Like I said, I'd have to sit down with him & have a conversation before I would make up my mind.
Click to expand...

Agree, I am not saying I would take him in the 1st round. My only point was that he apparently doesn't lack intelligence, however lacks common sense and good judgement.

I live in Florida so am probably exposed to this guy a little more than most in this thread. He doesn't have a reputation here. The Bucs need a QB and will probably have a top 3 pick, however it seems no one around here thinks they should touch him.

If he is still there when the Texans select, I wouldn't have a problem with them taking a chance on him. However I was good with the Clowney pick also, so what do I know.
 
Hookem Horns said:
Agree, I am not saying I would take him in the 1st round. My only point was that he apparently doesn't lack intelligence, however lacks common sense and good judgement.

I live in Florida so am probably exposed to this guy a little more than most in this thread. He doesn't have a reputation here. The Bucs need a QB and will probably have a top 3 pick, however it seems no one around here thinks they should touch him.

If he is still there when the Texans select, I wouldn't have a problem with them taking a chance on him. However I was good with the Clowney pick also, so what do I know.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between intelligence and wisdom. They rarely come in the same package.
 
TexansSeminole said:
When it comes down to it, time to win the game, time to produce, give me Winston every time. He wins games with his arm and has never failed to produce a victory. You can analyze all you want but he is undefeated in college, pure and simple. He has an unique ability to put the past behind him. I've never seen someone who approaches every snap with the same confidence, despite how the game has been going or how the season has been going, and I believe that ability is unique.
Click to expand...

Yeh like Bah said, if it wasn't for the talent around him he wouldn't be winning these games. I wouldn't draft him period much less with a first. He's an below average prospect and an immature POS as a person with no future on or off the field after his college career is over.
 
I want to see his MMPI results and his "Nawrocki" file... then I'd want to get eye-to-eye with him. And, then, I wouldn't. :fingergun:
 
mussop said:
Yeh like Bah said, if it wasn't for the talent around him he wouldn't be winning these games. I wouldn't draft him period much less with a first. He's an below average prospect and an immature POS as a person with no future on or off the field after his college career is over.
Click to expand...

"below average prospect"

"wouldn't draft him period"


:ok:
 
Hookem Horns said:
Agree, I am not saying I would take him in the 1st round. My only point was that he apparently doesn't lack intelligence, however lacks common sense and good judgement.

I live in Florida so am probably exposed to this guy a little more than most in this thread. He doesn't have a reputation here. The Bucs need a QB and will probably have a top 3 pick, however it seems no one around here thinks they should touch him.

If he is still there when the Texans select, I wouldn't have a problem with them taking a chance on him. However I was good with the Clowney pick also, so what do I know.
Click to expand...

I though I heard somewhere he was capable of being a doctor or something like that. Apparently school wise he's pretty smart.
 
Wouldn't touch this guy after all of the constant off the field problems with him. He was already handed a Heisman he had no business winning. He won't ever be a successful franchise starter for like a long period of time.
 
mussop said:
Yeh like Bah said, if it wasn't for the talent around him he wouldn't be winning these games. I wouldn't draft him period much less with a first. He's an below average prospect and an immature POS as a person with no future on or off the field after his college career is over.
Click to expand...

Not trying to be funny, but isn't this the case with all team sports. You have some strong convictions against a 20yr old college football player. FSU can make the statement that they have never lost a game due to Jameis Winston, as of yet...
 
Texecutioner said:
Wouldn't touch this guy after all of the constant off the field problems with him. He was already handed a Heisman he had no business winning. He won't ever be a successful franchise starter for like a long period of time.
Click to expand...

He was by far the best player the year he won it and most everyone agreed.
 
Jameis Winston ruling: No violation
Former Florida Supreme Court Justice Major Harding wrote in a letter to Winston that the evidence was "insufficient to satisfy the burden of proof." Prosecutor Willie Meggs made a similar decision a year ago when he decided not to criminally charge Winston, citing a lack of evidence.

This month, a two-day hearing was held to determine whether Winston violated four sections of the code of conduct -- two for sexual misconduct and two for endangerment.

The ramifications for Winston ranged from a reprimand to expulsion from school.

The woman can request an appeal within five days.

"We will consider an appeal, but right now we feel a little duped," Baine Kerr, one of the woman's lawyers, said in an emailed statement. "At some point we have to recognize that Florida State is never going to hold [Jameis] Winston responsible."
...
"Somehow Jameis Winston still wins," Kerr said. "The order doesn't even follow the Student Conduct Code, and it ignores the bulk of the evidence."
Click to expand...
 
Marshall said:
How dare they consider all the evidence and not just the accusation? I don't like railroads in justice whether by prosecutors or defense lawyers. It's still not guilty until proven innocent despite the reprehensible nature of the crime for which the defendant is charged.

Honestly, what do you expect from the woman's lawyer? Agreement?
Click to expand...

And what did you expect, Florida State to hold Winston responsible when they are in the playoffs? Get real!!!! I hope we don't even have this turd on our draft board. I don't care if he falls to the 7th round I wouldn't even consider him.
 
mussop said:
And what did you expect, Florida State to hold Winston responsible when they are in the playoffs? Get real!!!! I hope we don't even have this turd on our draft board. I don't care if he falls to the 7th round I wouldn't even consider him.
Click to expand...

Know of but haven't delved into the issue - can you point to why this guy is guilty?
 
mussop said:
And what did you expect, Florida State to hold Winston responsible when they are in the playoffs? Get real!!!! I hope we don't even have this turd on our draft board. I don't care if he falls to the 7th round I wouldn't even consider him.
Click to expand...

So absent evidence, YOU have determined he's guilty. Unfortunately you are not alone. I'm not saying he's not and I'm not saying he is. But is should go through the system like any other citizen. By the way, criminal activity should never be judged by a student or university court.
 
mussop said:
And what did you expect, Florida State to hold Winston responsible when they are in the playoffs? Get real!!!! I hope we don't even have this turd on our draft board. I don't care if he falls to the 7th round I wouldn't even consider him.
Click to expand...

Rape in the first degree requires beyond reasonable doubt to convict, like most crimes actual burden of proof is on the prosecutor, and on a jury trial is really tough to get.

- we don't have the full spectrum of evidence present.
- beyond a reasonable doubt is actually really hard to prove.

Having been on a couple juror panels of late for some random reason I was enlightened on how tough it actually is to get a conviction, and how it should be. The two cases have that I have been up for have both been a he said she said with no real actual proof, which I'm not sure why charges were even brought against him and why it went to trial.
 
infantrycak said:
Know of but haven't delved into the issue - can you point to why this guy is guilty?
Click to expand...

Just the court of public opinion .... It doesn't require anything to convict him there.

(I don't like the guy and the rape allegations are just a part of that).
 
silvrhand said:
Rape in the first degree requires beyond reasonable doubt to convict, like most crimes actual burden of proof is on the prosecutor, and on a jury trial is really tough to get.

- we don't have the full spectrum of evidence present.
- beyond a reasonable doubt is actually really hard to prove.
Click to expand...

Which has nothing to do with Florida State enforcing their code of conduct which is what mussop was talking about.
 
thunderkyss said:
Which has nothing to do with Florida State enforcing their code of conduct which is what mussop was talking about.
Click to expand...
Even a code of conduct requires or should require more than an accusation. There should be some supporting evidence.

But this should be a lesson to use caution when going out. You never know what your date is like or how they will react until you've taken the time to become acquainted in group settings (more than one). There are nut jobs of every gender.
 
Marshall said:
Even a code of conduct requires or should require more than an accusation. There should be some supporting evidence.
.
Click to expand...

Still, the point is we're not talking about a criminal case. That's done... a year ago. Who knows where Florida State draws the line & the burden they put on their students to uphold it?

Kinda like BYU... this would probably have been a violation had Jameis gone to BYU, whether they could prove rape beyond a reasonable doubt or not. You have at least three eye witness reports of Winston having sex with another student (I believe that's a violation of BYU's code of conduct).
 
thunderkyss said:
Still, the point is we're not talking about a criminal case. That's done... a year ago. Who knows where Florida State draws the line & the burden they put on their students to uphold it?

Kinda like BYU... this would probably have been a violation had Jameis gone to BYU, whether they could prove rape beyond a reasonable doubt or not. You have at least three eye witness reports of Winston having sex with another student (I believe that's a violation of BYU's code of conduct).
Click to expand...

I sincerely doubt students having sex with other students is a violation on a modern Campus. If so, it would be like prohibition and invite contempt for the code. I think it is immoral unless the students are married to each other but most do not. But even I can see that enforcing it would be extremely arbitrary.

But every thing I have heard or seen while passing through suggest that it is encouraged at that particular school.
 
Marshall said:
I sincerely doubt students having sex with other students is a violation on a modern Campus. If so, it would be like prohibition and invite contempt for the code. I think it is immoral unless the students are married to each other but most do not. But even I can see that enforcing it would be extremely arbitrary.

But every thing I have heard or seen while passing through suggest that it is encouraged at that particular school.
Click to expand...

This just happened in 2011:

http://www.foxsports.com/collegebas...isses-basketball-player-for-having-sex-030211

Brandon Davies was kicked off the BYU team for having sex with his girlfriend.

According to the Salt Lake Tribune, the 6-foot-9 sophomore forward – who was dismissed from the team on Tuesday night – acknowledged his transgression to BYU officials on Monday.

BYU dismissed Davies a day later for violating the school’s Honor Code – which forbids students from having premarital sex. The Cougars lost their first game without Davies, falling to New Mexico 82-64 on Wednesday.
Click to expand...
 
Marshall said:
I sincerely doubt students having sex with other students is a violation on a modern Campus.
Click to expand...

So.


I don't know FSU's code of conduct. I don't have all the testimony they took for their investigation. I have no idea if Winston failed to live up to his agreement of such code... all I'm saying is the burden on FSU is most likely not the same as the state of Florida's in a rape criminal trial.
 
PapaL said:
But that's BYU...a Mormon school. All bets are off there.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean to imply that BYU and FSU have the same code of conduct. They clearly don't.

But I posted that because it is important to note that the burden of proof required for the school code is obviously not the same as what is needed for a criminal case.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top