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Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

GuerillaBlack said:
If the Texans end up with a 6-10 or 7-9 record, and are picking around 9 to 15, then hopefully Winston falls that far and they pick him. If it wasn't for his off the field stuff, he would be the first pick. Can't ignore those situations though, but you also can't ignore his play and leadership on the field. He could do great things with the Texans.
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Unfortunately, the off field stuff matters. In fact, it matters more and more these days with the NFL cracking down on the personal conduct policy. Add in the fact that getting drafted in the top 15 would instantly make him the face of that franchise....it matters greatly.

Do NFL teams really want this kid representing their franchise? Is he mature enough to handle the NFL life? Is he professional enough to put other things aside and put all of his focus on his career?

I'm not so sure. I wouldn't touch this kid in the draft. Let someone else take the risk.
 
All NFL teams will end up having a piece of human trash on them at one point or another. I would rather not root for an NFL team that had known morons on the team, or had the highest arrest rate, but I'm not going to sit here on a high horse and judge a guy via news copy anymore. When it comes to football, my biggest concerns are "Can they play" and "Will they be allowed to play" and in that order.

With respect to Winston, he looks like he can play. Not so sure he can make every throw on time and accurately every time, but he's got enough really good tape to make me think he can play at the next level. The problem with Winston, is, will he just end up continuously suspended or expelled from the league? I can't really pretend to know the answer to that, as I'm not a police officer, or private detective (or Roger Gooddell for that mater). If he ends up suspended for the rest of the year for the autograph stuff link that throws his draft stock way down and I can imagine a mid round draft pick would get him.

You can tell I just really want a QB, so I'm probably not my normal self on matters like this.
 
I originally said no way would I touch Winston....

But.....

I have to see what's what come draft time next year....

Where guys are ranked...where we are picking...Who has done what on the field....

I can't just rule it out anymore. Texans have to have a franchise QB going into next season.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I originally said no way would I touch Winston....

But.....

I have to see what's what come draft time next year....

Where guys are ranked...where we are picking...Who has done what on the field....

I can't just rule it out anymore. Texans have to have a franchise QB going into next season.
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This is where I am. Sometimes you just have to chances if you want to be great. That's not the McNair's M.O. though and why should it be? They are making huge $$$$ without taking risks. So I dont expect a change in philosophy.
 
steelbtexan said:
This is where I am. Sometimes you just have to chances if you want to be great. That's not the McNair's M.O. though and why should it be? They are making huge $$$$ without taking risks. So I dont expect a change in philosophy.
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This isn't about risk , its about sacrificing your morals and ethics by drafting a person with ZERO of either.

If it was about on the field risk , I wouldn't mind taking a shot .... but this guy is morally and ethically bankrupt , I don't even want to see him on an NFL roster , much less my teams roster.
 
Corrosion said:
This isn't about risk , its about sacrificing your morals and ethics by drafting a person with ZERO of either.

If it was about on the field risk , I wouldn't mind taking a shot .... but this guy is morally and ethically bankrupt , I don't even want to see him on an NFL roster , much less my teams roster.
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Is this the NFL or Sunday school?

As long as my team wins I dont really care about the character of the players on my favorite team. (Excluding Hernandez.) I'm all about winning and so far McNair's corporate image, over on the field product has suffered because of not being wlling to take chances on talented but troubled players like the Pats/Broncos/Eagles/Seahawks/49ers etc... do.

To me it would come down to do I think Winston can lead my team to a SB? If the answer is yes, (I dont think it necessarily is) then Winston is the pick.

Luckily for you the McNair's put image over winning so this is a moot point. No way Winston will ever be a Texan. A better question is who is your favorite QB in this draft?
 
steelbtexan said:
Is this the NFL or Sunday school?

As long as my team wins I dont really care about the character of the players on my favorite team. (Excluding Hernandez.) I'm all about winning and so far McNair's corporate image, over on the field product has suffered because of not being wlling to take chances on talented but troubled players like the Pats/Broncos/Eagles/Seahawks/49ers etc... do.

To me it would come down to do I think Winston can lead my team to a SB? If the answer is yes, (I dont think it necessarily is) then Winston is the pick.
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I don't mind some guys with "minor" character issues .... but I do mind a guy who I believe raped that woman and the cops / court / university botched the investigation (on purpose) & covered it up because of his status as the QB at FSU.

"@*$& her right in the p@$$y." :smiliepalm:

Don't expect everyone to be a choir boy .... but this dude is an entitled POS I want no where near my team.


Luckily for you the McNair's put image over winning so this is a moot point. No way Winston will ever be a Texan. A better question is who is your favorite QB in this draft?
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Who's my favorite .... Right now I'd have to go with Mariota. My only question is if he can operate from under center as he spends the vast majority of the time in the pistol / shotgun.

This is subject to change upon further evaluation of Mariota & others.


But I don't touch that rapist.
 
Texecutioner said:
Why is it that you guys continually try calling Ben a rapist? He never came close to raping anyone. This is the perfect example of how a horrible allegation can follow someone for years no matter how silly or false it is. Ben was never even charged with a freaking crime. He had some bad press and that was basically it, and people like you are out here still calling him a rapist. It's mind boggling.
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One, one allegation of rape........


Two, two allegation of rape.........


Three, three allegation of rape.........


Justice is reserved for the rich in this country.



 
It's a no brainer to me... especially the direction Goodell and Co. are taking the NFL.


He's not even on the draft board
 
Texecutioner said:
Why is it that you guys continually try calling Ben a rapist? He never came close to raping anyone. This is the perfect example of how a horrible allegation can follow someone for years no matter how silly or false it is. Ben was never even charged with a freaking crime. He had some bad press and that was basically it, and people like you are out here still calling him a rapist. It's mind boggling.
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Was it a false allegation or celebrity treatment by the home town justice system?

We'll never know, but I'm cynical enough to believe both are possible.
 
steelbtexan said:
Is this the NFL or Sunday school?

As long as my team wins I dont really care about the character of the players on my favorite team. (Excluding Hernandez.) I'm all about winning and so far McNair's corporate image, over on the field product has suffered because of not being wlling to take chances on talented but troubled players like the Pats/Broncos/Eagles/Seahawks/49ers etc... do.

To me it would come down to do I think Winston can lead my team to a SB? If the answer is yes, (I dont think it necessarily is) then Winston is the pick.

Luckily for you the McNair's put image over winning so this is a moot point. No way Winston will ever be a Texan. A better question is who is your favorite QB in this draft?
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I'm glad McNair is in charge and not you. I do care about character or lack of it. Mistakes can be forgiven after a heart felt repentance, but defiance cannot be overlooked. But the worst is the fake apology which just adds deception to the list of sins.
 
Even if you don't count out Winston for being a probable rapist, he is still a less mature Johnny Football, or a dumber Vince Young
 
The1ApplePie said:
Even if you don't count out Winston for being a probable rapist, he is still a less mature Johnny Football, or a dumber Vince Young
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I think Winston is a better QB than both of those guys.....

But I'm back to leaning towards ruling him out....

I just don't trust him.

I don't trust him to stay on the field. He's a little chubby and I don't trust him to stay in shape.

And he just seems fake to me. Disingenuous.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I think Winston is a better QB than both of those guys.....

But I'm back to leaning towards ruling him out....

I just don't trust him.

I don't trust him to stay on the field. He's a little chubby and I don't trust him to stay in shape.

And he just seems fake to me. Disingenuous.
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What sucks is I think he has the best box of tools & most upside of all the QB's in the next two drafts.

BUT .... I agree with "don't trust him" , "Seems like a fake" , "Disingenuous" .....

You get a huge shot at the next JaMarcus Russell ..... or worse , your cheerleaders quit!
 
Corrosion said:
What sucks is I think he has the best box of tools & most upside of all the QB's in the next two drafts.

BUT .... I agree with "don't trust him" , "Seems like a fake" , "Disingenuous" .....

You get a huge shot at the next JaMarcus Russell ..... or worse , your cheerleaders quit!
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Nobody thought that Russell was going to be anything in the NFL except for Al Davis. Kid got drafted cause he could throw like 100 yards down the field on one knee. Even LSU fans were surprised that he went first overall over megatron.

Jameis is way different prospect, and mostly because he can do it on the field, but off the field he's just a nightmare from top to bottom.
 
Tonight is the 3rd FSU game I've seen this year and so far Winston has not looked like a 1st round QB in any of them. His timing and accuracy are not good when he's forced past his first read and his decision making under pressure isn't great either. His arm punt INT in the 1st half tonight was brutal.
 
Marshall said:
I'm glad McNair is in charge and not you. I do care about character or lack of it. Mistakes can be forgiven after a heart felt repentance, but defiance cannot be overlooked. But the worst is the fake apology which just adds deception to the list of sins.
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As DB said, the NFL is a entertainment business. Why do you care about entertainers personal lives? What effect does their personal lives have on your life?
 
disaacks3 said:
If those "character issues" never came up to bite the team in the a**, I might agree.
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Didn't for the 90's Cowboys. Tell me more about Ray Lewis Ravens. The Seahawks were Marshawn Lynch's straight out of Compton's team. It's all on the HC to keep his criminals in line. Re: Belichick/Hernandez.

Carry on
 
steelbtexan said:
Didn't for the 90's Cowboys. Tell me more about Ray Lewis Ravens. The Seahawks were Marshawn Lynch's straight out of Compton's team. It's all on the HC to keep his criminals in line. Re: Belichick/Hernandez.

Carry on
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The rules have changed a little in the last 20 years in case you haven't noticed.
 
As I said earlier, 3rd FSU game I've seen this year. 3 times Winston has had a poor 1st half and then followed it with a very good 2nd half. If he could play a complete game his team wouldn't be in the dogfights they've been in this year.
 
FSU benefits from a bs call at end of game imo

Lost all respect for Jimbo Fisher with that post game interview...
 
JB said:
The PI that took away the td
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The same PI where two Irish players clearly ran into and through two noles defenders while the ball was in the air?

The only thing FSU benefited from was ND running a pick play with all the subtlety of a wound up kick in the nuts. That call was anything but bs.
 
Mollywhopper said:
The same PI where two Irish players clearly ran into and through two noles defenders while the ball was in the air?

The only thing FSU benefited from was ND running a pick play with all the subtlety of a wound up kick in the nuts. That call was anything but bs.
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It was nothing but bs. Blocking for a pass play is done all the time and not called.

That's' my opinion and I'm sticking to it
 
JB said:
The PI that took away the td
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But the guy was clearly blocking beyond the LOS before the ball is released. To make it worse he blocked the defender that was trying to get to the receiver who ended up catching the ball...great game by both teams.
 
playa465 said:
But the guy was clearly blocking beyond the LOS before the ball is released. To make it worse he blocked the defender that was trying to get to the receiver who ended up catching the ball...great game by both teams.
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yeah that happens on every screen pass everywhere everytime
 
JB said:
It was nothing but bs. Blocking for a pass play is done all the time and not called.

That's' my opinion and I'm sticking to it
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Blocking is not allowed while a ball is in the air. Plain and simple. Anyone getting away with it previously is not justification for someone getting away with it currently.

Subtlety counts for a ton on a play designed like that one was meant, and like I said, ND chose to forego the use of any and all.

Stick to it all you'd like, doesn't change a flag that was too obvious to get stay pocketed there.
 
JB said:
What you got against used care salesmen?
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Nothing, my favorite ex-brother in law was a used car salesman. Great guy.

Cant stand Fisher self righteousness. He holds Winston out against a young Clemson team. (He knew the Noles were going to win that game.) But against the Irish there was no way Winston was going to miss that game.

BTW, I cant stand self righteous golden domers, but I was rooting for them tonight.
 
b0ng said:
You can tell I just really want a QB, so I'm probably not my normal self on matters like this.
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Yeah, we can tell.

Settling for Jamies Winston is like settling for a AIDs-infected hooker because you can't get laid.
 
playa465 said:
But the guy was clearly blocking beyond the LOS before the ball is released. To make it worse he blocked the defender that was trying to get to the receiver who ended up catching the ball...great game by both teams.
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The DB lined up in press coverage and initiated contact with the WR. He then never even tried to fight through the contact. Instead he actually grabbed the WR to prevent him from running an inside route. The outside WR actually had the more egregious "pick" but he wasn't the one flagged.

Pick plays happen all the time. Sometimes they are PI and sometimes they are not. This was not one of those times. It was the equivalent to a foul called on a flop on the final play in a basketball game.

Also, an FSU player took his helmet off after the play. Should have been a personal foul enforced after the PI mark-off and an automatic 1st down for Notre Dame. No matter what way you look at it, the refs screwed up and it benefited Florida State.
 
WolverineFan said:
The DB lined up in press coverage and initiated contact with the WR. He then never even tried to fight through the contact. Instead he actually grabbed the WR to prevent him from running an inside route. The outside WR actually had the more egregious "pick" but he wasn't the one flagged.

Pick plays happen all the time. Sometimes they are PI and sometimes they are not. This was not one of those times. It was the equivalent to a foul called on a flop on the final play in a basketball game.

Also, an FSU player took his helmet off after the play. Should have been a personal foul enforced after the PI mark-off and an automatic 1st down for Notre Dame. No matter what way you look at it, the refs screwed up and it benefited Florida State.
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Agree to disagree...Yes the FSU player looks to be in press coverage but the ND player (#20) seems to have no intention in crossing the face of the defender for a pick play. Looks like he is halfway trying to get leverage with his right shoulder while blocking. Now the part on the helmet removal I didn't see but yup it should have been called and marked off.
 
steelbtexan said:
Didn't a Lewis led Ravens team win a SB a couple of yrs ago?
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So what? Again you are trying to take a guy with one incident of trouble 15 years ago and extend it to wipe out concerns over someone being a repeat offender who will miss considerable time. It's ludicrous. And if it wasn't already bad we're talking about a QB here. Their absence is felt more.
 
infantrycak said:
So what? Again you are trying to take a guy with one incident of trouble 15 years ago and extend it to wipe out concerns over someone being a repeat offender who will miss considerable time. It's ludicrous. And if it wasn't already bad we're talking about a QB here. Their absence is felt more.
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Just pointing out the facts. Bad boys can lead their teams to SB's.

They've been doing it for yrs. For instance the 49ers have a very good team? Two of the guys that have made a big impact are Alex Boone and Parrish Cox. Them having checkered pasts didn't stop the 49ers and they haven't gotten in trouble since joining the 49ers.

Bottom line for me is if the Texans want to compete at the highest levels they are going to take chances on these kinds of guys because other teams are taking these chances and beating the crap out of the Texans. I know you disagree with me, but what have the Texans really won with their current philosophy?

With that said I wouldn't draft Winston unless he fell to the 2nd rd. (He was my #1 QB. Mariota has now taken that spot. What the Texans really need is for a team to give up on a vet QB like the 49ers did with Smith or the Raiders did with Palmer.

I could see Pittsburgh giving up on Ben if they flounder this season. He's got a big contract and that would mean the end of AJ's time here. Would you pick up Ben if it meant losing AJ? I would in a heartbeat. Other QB's that fit this description Tannehill/Hoyer/Cousins/Bradford.
 
steelbtexan said:
Just pointing out the facts. Bad boys can lead their teams to SB's.

They've been doing it for yrs. For instance the 49ers have a very good team? Two of the guys that have made a big impact are Alex Boone and Parrish Cox. Them having checkered pasts didn't stop the 49ers and they haven't gotten in trouble since joining the 49ers.

Bottom line for me is if the Texans want to compete at the highest levels they are going to take chances on these kinds of guys because other teams are taking these chances and beating the crap out of the Texans. I know you disagree with me, but what have the Texans really won with their current philosophy?

With that said I wouldn't draft Winston unless he fell to the 2nd rd. (He was my #1 QB. Mariota has now taken that spot. What the Texans really need is for a team to give up on a vet QB like the 49ers did with Smith or the Raiders did with Palmer.

I could see Pittsburgh giving up on Ben if they flounder this season. He's got a big contract and that would mean the end of AJ's time here. Would you pick up Ben if it meant losing AJ? I would in a heartbeat. Other QB's that fit this description Tannehill/Hoyer/Cousins/Bradford.
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First off I think this "the Texans won't take anyone not squeaky clean" meme is fan mythology. The Texans have taken risks on character concern guys. With one exception they have not panned out (although not due to the character issues generally).

Second, I am not against taking risks - educated ones. It's not an all or nothing affair - ignore all risks or take none. That's where I differ with you. Risks are not all the same and the potential rewards are not the same.
 
infantrycak said:
First off I think this "the Texans won't take anyone not squeaky clean" meme is fan mythology. The Texans have taken risks on character concern guys. With one exception they have not panned out (although not due to the character issues generally).

Second, I am not against taking risks - educated ones. It's not an all or nothing affair - ignore all risks or take none. That's where I differ with you. Risks are not all the same and the potential rewards are not the same.
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I honestly don't know this answer.

Who have the Texans taken a character risk on?

BTW, don't you think Rolando McClain would look pretty good at ILB on the Texans now?

Will Hill was just activated. Another bad boy who will end up starting and playing well.
 
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The character concerns don't worry me as much as the mental and football IQ do. There is a lot about Winston that reminds me of Jamarcus Russell.
 
Corrosion said:
Don't forget about Hopkins .... Sh!t in the hotel room at the combine ?? :smiliepalm:
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The most egregious sin of them all.

Guess his roommate must of been in the bathroom and he had to go really really bad.

Fact is the Texans are choir boys compared to the good teams in the league and their record shows it.
 
steelbtexan said:
The most egregious sin of them all.

Guess his roommate must of been in the bathroom and he had to go really really bad.

Fact is the Texans are choir boys compared to the good teams in the league and their record shows it.
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The Texans have the least arrests since 2000 (and of course we are three seasons short) but here is a list and I see no correlation between good teams and high arrests (if anything the opposite).

Link

Teams - playoff wins (2002 on):

Most arrests:
Cincinnati 42 - 0
Denver 39 - 4
Minnesota 44 - 2
Tennessee 34 - 2
Tampa 31 - 3

Least arrests:
Houston 9 - 2
Arizona 13 - 4
Philadelphia 13 - 7
New York Jets 13 - 6
St. Louis 11 - 1

And just for giggles, the winningest team is at the low end with 16.
 
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