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JaDeveon Clowney

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infantrycak said:
His knee was not the pre-draft concern. Bone spurs were the issue and CnD still wanted to draft him with that risk (he did recommend prompt surgery on that).
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I thought CnD said that the bone spurs implied other problems that should have been warning signs before the draft. I didn't try to find his old posts; I could be mistaken.

Hmm...
 
Runner said:
I thought CnD said that the bone spurs implied other problems that should have been warning signs before the draft. I didn't try to find his old posts; I could be mistaken.

Hmm...
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Yes bone spurs point to an underlying cause but in the foot not the knee. He and I had a whole lot of back and forth on this and I didn't think it was worth the risk of a year or two and then done like Gary Walker as a Texan with turf toe. CnD did think it was worth the risk.

As it appears to have turned out though this is unrelated to that discussion.
 
The staff knew microfracture surgery could be needed; opted for another surgery to see if the knee would respond. It doesn't...now were onto the microfracture surgery.

PUP list for Mr. Clowney in 2015.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Torn ACLs and other collateral ligaments are usually quite easy to determine on MRI.........and certainly in combination with arthroscopy. Meniscus injuries are also usually easily diagnosable on MRI (medial somewhat easier than lateral).........the lateral meniscus tears that may be missed on MRI are usually picked up on arthroscopy.............unless, concerning both menisci, they are a recurrent injury (drops to ~60%).........unless an MRI arthrogram in addition to plain MRI is obtained (As I pointed out early in the case of Ed Reed's missed labrum tear, the Texans did not do a hip MRI arthrogram, which I said needed to be done to rule out the tear........they then did run this test later and discovered the tear).

But, the most commonly overlooked injury is one to the articular cartilage, which can occur beneath a traumatized meniscus or one that was damaged by the meniscus surgery.

It's difficult to believe that, given the history of Clowney, they have not encountered significant already-existing arthritic changes in his knee.

As a final comment, re-operation is not anything that you want to see for any reason.........every time the knee is re-entered, there will usually be some lasting morbidity associated with it.
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Im no surgeon, but Im pretty sure you nailed it.
 
Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli 10m10 minutes ago

In addition to a lateral meniscus tear Clowney had articular cartilage damage. #Texans knew all along microfracture surgery was possible.

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 23m23 minutes ago

Jadeveon Clowney’s surgery was done by #Texans team doc Walt Lowe. The team expects him to recover fully and hopes he’s ready by camp.

Adm Schfter ‏@AdamSchefter 35m35 minutes ago

With 9-month recovery from Jadeveon Clowney's microfracture knee surgery, start of 2015 season in real doubt for him.
 
infantrycak said:
Yes bone spurs point to an underlying cause but in the foot not the knee. He and I had a whole lot of back and forth on this and I didn't think it was worth the risk of a year or two and then done like Gary Walker as a Texan with turf toe. CnD did think it was worth the risk.

As it appears to have turned out though this is unrelated to that discussion.
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I knew someone(s) had convinced me the odds he was a big injury risk were too great to draft him #1. Maybe it was you.
 
Texian said:
Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli
In addition to a lateral meniscus tear Clowney had articular cartilage damage. #Texans knew all along microfracture surgery was possible.
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CloakNNNdagger said:
But, the most commonly overlooked injury is one to the articular cartilage, which can occur beneath a traumatized meniscus or one that was damaged by the meniscus surgery.
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infantrycak said:
CnD did think it was worth the risk...
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To be fair, he did qualify that significantly.

And the known prior conditions left a trail of breadcrumbs that led to this possible outcome. So at some point a team has push a pile of medical records onto a qualified physicians lap and ask and rely on his opinion as to what the outcomes might be and whether you ding him for it in the draft.

The history, the research, the studies are all there.
 
GuerillaBlack said:
Not to mention the Suns probably have the best medical staff in all of sports. So many players who were injured constantly, go to Phoenix and play almost injury free (Grant Hill, Shaq, Redd, etc.). I don't know what kind of magic potions they use in the valley.
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Yup. And we didn't want to guarantee all the years of his contract when he was a free agent in 2010 because of the knee issue and consequently, he signed with the Knicks. General rule of thumb is that if the Suns' training staff is warning you, it's best to heed that warning.

Hopefully Clowney can bounce back because Watt/Clowney/Cushing is something to straight up fap over.
 
GuerillaBlack said:
Maybe in September or October I would have agreed with you, but not now. The draft has been looking better. Specifically, X, Tuggle, and Fiedo.
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Have to ask...how does that make it different? As pointed out Tuggle was not drafted and came the previous year. X hasn't been playing so how that is looking better I have no clue. He doesn't start and lately has gotten less than 10 plays. When he played significantly he was rather horrid. Fiedo, no different. Struggles holding his block and hasn't been a receiving threat.

Now not saying these guys can't develop but they have done nothing to say they have been making the draft look better other than putting their shoes on correctly.
 
A00422F01.jpg


Steps of the microfracture technique. Left: Damaged cartilage is removed. Center: Awl is used to make holes in the subchondral bone. Right: Healing response brings new, healthy cartilage cells.
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Wow! First of all, the injury we witnessed in week one is not directly responsible for the need for micro fracture surgery now. There had to have been significant trauma or degeneration n that knee already... Or the September surgery was sloppy and too aggressive.. Or he damaged it during rehab or after he returned.

Well, at least the his contract doesn't cripple us like it would have before the rookie scale was adjusted four years ago. It is unlikely that he will ever be a difference-maker in the NFL now. It is more likely that he will be out of league at age 26.

I would like to take this time to stress once again that it is almost always wiser to trade for multiple picks, even if the offers are less than what the draft chart would deem " fair value"... Give me pick 20, 53, and 85 in exchange for the first overall pick anytime- assuming there is not an elite QB available.

Texans' medical staff strikes again!... Probably.
 
dalemurphy said:
Wow! First of all, the injury we witnessed in week one is not directly responsible for the need for micro fracture surgery now. There had to have been significant trauma or degeneration n that knee already... Or the September surgery was sloppy and too aggressive.. Or he damaged it during rehab or after he returned.
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Sounds like good old Texans spin.
 
dalemurphy said:
Wow! First of all, the injury we witnessed in week one is not directly responsible for the need for micro fracture surgery now. There had to have been significant trauma or degeneration n that knee already... Or the September surgery was sloppy and too aggressive.. Or he damaged it during rehab or after he returned.

Well, at least the his contract doesn't cripple us like it would have before the rookie scale was adjusted four years ago. It is unlikely that he will ever be a difference-maker in the NFL now. It is more likely that he will be out of league at age 26.

I would like to take this time to stress once again that it is almost always wiser to trade for multiple picks, even if the offers are less than what the draft chart would deem " fair value"... Give me pick 20, 53, and 85 in exchange for the first overall pick anytime- assuming there is not an elite QB available.

Texans' medical staff strikes again!... Probably.
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I hate this incessant "I would have traded down" crap. It takes at least two to make a trade. Who out there would have given a 1, a 2 and a 3 for the 1-1?

Unless you have proof that they were offered that and declined it, let's just move on
 
thunderkyss said:
A00422F01.jpg
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The final step should read: "everyone crosses their fingers and hope that the healing process brings some new, healthy cartilage cells." Micro fracture surgery is the orthopedic version of a Hail Mary. The most optimistic forecasts is that there is a 50%chance of enough new growth to stall or delay crippling arthritic grinding for a few years... If it is localized to the outer 1/3 of the knee joint, as it appears it is (instead of the entire knee surface) the odds of a positive outcome are significantly better.
 
this is some gd bulllllllsh! i demand to know who knew what, when they knew it, and if they didnt know why the fffff not? someone needs to be held fn accountable for this gd bs.:kubepalm:
 
infantrycak said:
To be fair, I did say CnD said he should promptly have surgery on the bone spurs which was the qualification.
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He also wanted to see contrast imaging of knees/hips... there were a number of things in that medical file he wanted to see. There is a thread of potentially bad outcomes that runs through every result of the longstanding bone spurs.
 
JB said:
I hate this incessant "I would have traded down" crap. It takes at least two to make a trade. Who out there would have given a 1, a 2 and a 3 for the 1-1?

Unless you have proof that they were offered that and declined it, let's just move on
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People inquired about trading up... The mock trade I suggested would have been laughed off by the Texans because the compensation falls way, way short of the league-wide assumed value of the 1st pick. I was not criticizing the Texans. I was just lamenting that a trade didn't happen.
 
Remember Charles Spencer having microfracture surgery after a short spell with us as a rookie. Don't think he played for us again.
 
JB said:
I hate this incessant "I would have traded down" crap. It takes at least two to make a trade. Who out there would have given a 1, a 2 and a 3 for the 1-1?

Unless you have proof that they were offered that and declined it, let's just move on
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You generally have to work the phones for deals. I have serious doubts in our GM's ability to work such deals.
 
Runner said:
It is too soon to start joking about this. Wait, that was serious?
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It's not too soon. Wonder if Dr. Lowe will get this one right. Hope he operates on the knee a and doesn't accidently remove a kidney.

Sad for Clowney, but looking for a bright side maybe this will lead to McNair changing the field surface.
 
Texian said:
Where would we be if Clowney hadn't insisted on a 2nd opinion?
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Probably doing more damage to his knee.

If CND suspected this the Texans team docs should have also. The Texans medical staffs incompetence never ceases to amaze me.
 
Seriously, the damn Colts take Manning years ago, then after years of success he gets hurt, they get the number one pick and draft Luck.

We get the #1 pick and we take "once in a generation" pass rusher, and he turns out to be made of glass.

The football Gods truely hate Houston!!!!!
 
steelbtexan said:
Probably doing more damage to his knee.

If CND suspected this the Texans team docs should have also. The Texans medical staffs incompetence never ceases to amaze me.
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I'm not sure this is medical malpractice. Possible doctors gave McNair and company options on Clowney's knee and they opted for get him on the field as quick as possible. As with most doctors and surgeries they're options and each option has a probability and failure/success rate.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Probably doing more damage to his knee.

If CND suspected this the Texans team docs should have also. The Texans medical staffs incompetence never ceases to amaze me.
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They already said they thought it might be needed right at the get go from the initial injury. Nobody in the league goes into maybe maybe not and multiple possible outcomes.

JC people are writing novels of revisionist angst and recriminations.
 
infantrycak said:
They already said they thought it might be needed right at the get go from the initial injury. Nobody in the league goes into maybe maybe not and multiple possible outcomes.

JC people are writing novels of revisionist angst and recriminations.
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It seems that the Texans medical staff seems to have a long history of picking the wrong possible outcome. In fact that seems to be what they're expertise is.

1. Boselli
2. DDW
3. Joppru
4. Spencer
5. Schaub
6. etc........
 
Texian said:
I'm not sure this is medical malpractice. Possible doctors gave McNair and company options on Clowney's knee and they opted for get him on the field as quick as possible. As with most doctors and surgeries they're are options and each option has a probability and failure/success rate.
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So first McNair's field caused Clowney's injury, then under McNair's direction the Texans team Dr.'s rushed Clowney back onto the field damaging his career?

Just trying to understand what's going on here? If this is the case it's just another case of the McNair's brilliance.

Great, with leadership like the McNair's (Bob/Cal) the Texans are one of the worst run orgs in the NFL and things don't seem to be getting better as the McNairs are 3 number 1 picks in and still learning 12 yrs later.
 
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