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JaDeveon Clowney

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IDEXAN said:
In other words Clowney has been very productive and also has off the chart measurables.
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Disagree ... I said after the draft and everyone was talking about what a monster he is that his stats (not freakin' overrated measurables) just don't support it. I believe he had a TOTAL of 4 sacks his entire senior season. If he was such a freakin' monster he should have had 4 sacks in one game ... heck in one half of a game ... against weaker opponents even if he was being triple teamed.

I do hope he develops and pans out for the team but, to say his college career warranted the #1 pick in the draft ... well, his stats just don't show it outside of a few highlight plays.
 
People were saying the same things about Odell Beckem after he got hurt early this year. He got healthy and now look at him. Just sayin.
 
TheMatrix31 said:
Leave that to the guy with the actual motor and desire to become and stay great by punishing quarterbacks----JJ Watt.
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Show any proof at all that Clowney doesn't have a motor or desire to be great.

This board has gone full madden mode. Clowney is a rookie and has only played in two games. Now he's a bust, injury prone and we never should of drafted him. People are pounding their chests and I told you so.

Give me a break. How about the core vets on this team that aren't living up to potential. J Joseph has has two good games all year. Foster had played in what, three games? Dewayne Brown and Myers have sucked in most of the games this year. Andre Johnson hasn't dropped this many passes since his sophomore yea yay Miami. Cushing and Mercilous have had brief good play but overall have not been factors. These guys have all had plenty of time to prove themselves and are the real problem with this team not a rookie that got hurt because of our shitty turf and hasn't had a real chance yet to prove himself.
 
Texian said:
Steve Spurrier said that Clowney didn't have the desire that handful of his teammates did.
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Yeah the guy that just retired because of knee injuries.

Steve Spurrier backtracks on Clowney work ethic remarks; LINK

“I said [Lattimore] was exceptional. I maybe should not have compared [Clowney],” Spurrier said, via Brian Smith of the Houston Chronicle. “I should have said, ‘Jadeveon, with the rest of the team, he was right there doing what they did.’ Maybe that would’ve helped out. I compared him to a guy who went above and beyond what was asked.”
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mussop said:
Show any proof at all that Clowney doesn't have a motor or desire to be great.

This board has gone full madden mode. Clowney is a rookie and has only played in two games. Now he's a bust, injury prone and we never should of drafted him. People are pounding their chests and I told you so.
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No way is he a bust this early, but unfortunately for the slot he was drafted in AND the position he plays there should be more impact. Injuries have stunted his development so far and personally I think he should get to 100% before getting on the field since this team is a longgg shot to get into the post season. What you are seeing is frustration from the fans and the need for us to b#($& about something, no validity needed on message boards as its all about discussion. :popcorn:
 
mussop said:
J Joseph has has two good games all year. Foster had played in what, three games?
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JJo is a top 25 CB, Foster is 7th in yards, 4th in average, and 3rd in scoring.

mussop said:
Dewayne Brown and Myers have sucked in most of the games this year. Andre Johnson hasn't dropped this many passes since his sophomore yea yay Miami.
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Brown had one bad game, first few were meh. Myers is 12th/42 Cs (PFF. >25% snaps) Both are learning new blocking techniques. Andre has not been great... his age/injuries are showing, but outside of the fumble he hasn't been bad either, except perhaps his last game.

mussop said:
Cushing and Mercilous have had brief good play but overall have not been factors...
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Cushing is broken. Mercilus is much improved.

mussop said:
Clowney is a rookie and has only played in two games... that got hurt because of our shitty turf and hasn't had a real chance yet to prove himself.
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Clowney hasn't played because he's injured too often, regardless of the wheres/whys. As I said in predictions, he'll disappoint. At first. (Assumed he'd play all games.) He is playing like a rookie and he is behind. Talk to me after he gets 12/16 games under his belt. And it better be by late 2015 or injury-prone begins to stick. Permanently.

Regardless, people can b!tch about what they want to b!tch about, AFAIC. If you don't like JD, wail away. Nothing that happens here affects what happens on the field. Personally, I'm pulling for the kid. :brando:
 
playa465 said:
No way is he a bust this early, but unfortunately for the slot he was drafted in AND the position he plays there should be more impact. Injuries have stunted his development so far and personally I think he should get to 100% before getting on the field since this team is a longgg shot to get into the post season. What you are seeing is frustration from the fans and the need for us to b#($& about something, no validity needed on message boards as its all about discussion. :popcorn:
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I could understand if this was 2006 & Vince Young & Reggie Bush were winning & making an impact... but 2014.. Clowney still looks like the best of the bunch.
 
thunderkyss said:
I could understand if this was 2006 & Vince Young & Reggie Bush were winning & making an impact... but 2014.. Clowney still looks like the best of the bunch.
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Clowney hasn't played much and has made little impact when he has. Evaluating him as "best of the bunch" can only be because he isn't going to be judged until another year or two has passed. If you gave that same consideration to the players he is being compared against, I don't know what criteria would make him best of the bunch. Maybe the same hype that has made his lack of impact this year so disappointing?
 
thunderkyss said:
I could understand if this was 2006 & Vince Young & Reggie Bush were winning & making an impact... but 2014.. Clowney still looks like the best of the bunch.
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I can't really compare as I haven't followed the other rookies in the top 5 outside of Bortles. The what if game is not me style, so if Clowney looks the best then great.
 
If y'all really want to kick yourselves in the butt over woulda shoulda coulda , then do it for not putting 10k into Dell computer in 1988 .
 
thunderkyss said:
I could understand if this was 2006 & Vince Young & Reggie Bush were winning & making an impact... but 2014.. Clowney still looks like the best of the bunch.
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Now this was a strong class for WRs, and they've turned out even better than expectations. But after that group, what's to brag about ? The 2 or 3 stud offensive line prospects have not lived up to expectations from what I hear ? Oh yea, Mack the Oakland LB seems to have some folks excited, but I dunno why, because so far he doesn't have a single sack.
 
Runner said:
Clowney hasn't played much and has made little impact when he has. Evaluating him as "best of the bunch" can only be because he isn't going to be judged until another year or two has passed.
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Ok... maybe "best of the bunch" is a little strong. But none of the other guys are giving me heartburn for passing on them.

Sammy Watkins maybe, but with Fitz starting 10+ games.... eh.
 
PapaL said:
Yeah the guy that just retired because of knee injuries.

Steve Spurrier backtracks on Clowney work ethic remarks; LINK
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Damage Control! The backtracking was to save face with recruiting. Didn't want every coach in the SEC saying to every recruit and their Mom, you can be the best recruit in the country and Spurrier won't have your back. Twice Spurrier made comments that called out Clowney, those are the ones you can to take to the bank.
 
thunderkyss said:
Ok... maybe "best of the bunch" is a little strong. But none of the other guys are giving me heartburn for passing on them.

Sammy Watkins maybe, but with Fitz starting 10+ games.... eh.
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What a total copout for being dead wrong. Clowney had bust written all over him all year last season. A few of us constantly talked about it while you guys just drooled over Mel Kipers ridiculous hype and complete nonsense about him being the best player since Taylor to enter the draft. You guys ignored every obvious character flaw that have him an Average season last year. The rationalizing and the spin efforts that were done on Clowney were extremely disingenuous. Smith, OB, and Mcnair all look like complete idiots right now especially Smith and Mcnair after they already had the same type of guy in Mario and clearly came a way learning nothing from it. Now they're looking at going into next season with another horrible QB situation again.
 
Texecutioner said:
What a total copout for being dead wrong. Clowney had bust written all over him all year last season. A few of us constantly talked about it while you guys just drooled over Mel Kipers ridiculous hype and complete nonsense about him being the best player since Taylor to enter the draft. You guys ignored every obvious character flaw that have him an Average season last year. The rationalizing and the spin efforts that were done on Clowney were extremely disingenuous. Smith, OB, and Mcnair all look like complete idiots right now especially Smith and Mcnair after they already had the same type of guy in Mario and clearly came a way learning nothing from it. Now they're looking at going into next season with another horrible QB situation again.
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If that's the case then 30 other teams that would of taken him at #1 look like complete idiots too. The only team that might of passed on him was Jacksonville because they were in love with Bortles. They aren't looking to smart right now. And since you are suggesting we could of solved our QB problem instead of drafting Clowney why don't you fill us in on exactly how that would of worked. :smiliepalm:
 
mussop said:
If that's the case then 30 other teams that would of taken him at #1 look like complete idiots too. The only team that might of passed on him was Jacksonville because they were in love with Bortles. They aren't looking to smart right now. And since you are suggesting we could of solved our QB problem instead of drafting Clowney why don't you fill us in on exactly how that would of worked. :smiliepalm:
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David... errr Derrick Carr :headhurts:


:runaway:
 
mussop said:
If that's the case then 30 other teams that would of taken him at #1 look like complete idiots too. The only team that might of passed on him was Jacksonville because they were in love with Bortles. They aren't looking to smart right now. And since you are suggesting we could of solved our QB problem instead of drafting Clowney why don't you fill us in on exactly how that would of worked. :smiliepalm:
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Bortles play had he been drafted by the Texans might have been quite different than it is at Jacksonville. There is more talent and a better coach here.
 
Runner said:
Bortles play had he been drafted by the Texans might have been quite different than it is at Jacksonville. There is more talent and a better coach here.
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Same could be said for Carr and Oakland
 
HOU-TEX said:
I thought he backed up before the snap? That's what I saw and I'm stickin to it
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Clowney-offsides-Bengals-Texans-349.jpg
 
Texecutioner said:
What a total copout for being dead wrong. Clowney had bust written all over him all year last season. A few of us constantly talked about it while you guys just drooled over Mel Kipers ridiculous hype and complete nonsense about him being the best player since Taylor to enter the draft. You guys ignored every obvious character flaw that have him an Average season last year.
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You've got me confused. I didn't want to draft Clowney. I said Robinson to address need, Watkins for BPA. I was even ok with dropping down & taking Mack.

I wasn't concerned with Clowney. He's a DE, we've got him playing OLB.
 
Runner said:
Bortles play had he been drafted by the Texans might have been quite different than it is at Jacksonville. There is more talent and a better coach here.
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I don't know how you come to that conclusion. O'Brien passed him up which tells me O'Brien didn't think he had sufficient talent/smarts to be effective here.
 
ObsiWan said:
I don't know how you come to that conclusion. O'Brien passed him up which tells me O'Brien didn't think he had sufficient talent/smarts to be effective here.
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Rumor has it that it was Bortles' name on that "other card," which would suggest we passed on him for another reason.
 
ObsiWan said:
I don't know how you come to that conclusion. O'Brien passed him up which tells me O'Brien didn't think he had sufficient talent/smarts to be effective here.
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1) Coaches aren't infallible.

2) Even if Clowney ends up being a good player here, it doesn't mean Bortles still wouldn't have played better with the Texans than with Jacksonville.

3) It is possible that O'Brien did think Bortles would fit his offense. Maybe O'Brien was confident enough in Mallet, who he was very familiar with, that he decided he didn't need a quarterback and that tilted the decision in Clowney's favor. This theory still might be true; it remains to be proven since Mallet hasn't had much playing time.


I don't understand the belief that because the Texans don't pick a player they aren't good enough to be effective here.
 
mussop said:
If that's the case then 30 other teams that would of taken him at #1 look like complete idiots too. The only team that might of passed on him was Jacksonville because they were in love with Bortles. They aren't looking to smart right now. And since you are suggesting we could of solved our QB problem instead of drafting Clowney why don't you fill us in on exactly how that would of worked. :smiliepalm:
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I am not convinced 30 other teams would have taken him #1. In the past 20 years, offensive players have been the first pick in the draft 17 times. Of the three times defensive players have been picked, two of them have been by the Texans. I'm not sure 31 out of 32 teams would have bucked that trend.

Clowney was hyped as a "once in a generation" player, but not all teams buy into the hype or necessarily needed a player at that position. Others may have questioned the difference between his perceived ability and his college performance and come to the conclusion to go another route had they picked 1/1.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/alltimeno1

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On another topic after looking at the attached list. It is interesting that we fans often complain that when the Texans have the first pick of the draft there is no franchise quarterback available. However, it appears that twice the Texans have had "once in a generation" defensive ends available (per pre-draft hype). Add those two to JJ Watt and the defense should be so fearsome the quarterback position wouldn't be so critical. That hasn't quite worked out.
 
Runner said:
Add those two to JJ Watt and the defense should be so fearsome the quarterback position wouldn't be so critical. That hasn't quite worked out.
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JJ Watt with a healthy Demeco Ryans & Brian Cushing.... Whitney Mercilus would look like a god.
 
Runner said:
I am not convinced 30 other teams would have taken him #1. In the past 20 years, offensive players have been the first pick in the draft 17 times. Of the three times defensive players have been picked, two of them have been by the Texans. I'm not sure 31 out of 32 teams would have bucked that trend.

Clowney was hyped as a "once in a generation" player, but not all teams buy into the hype or necessarily needed a player at that position. Others may have questioned the difference between his perceived ability and his college performance and come to the conclusion to go another route had they picked 1/1.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/alltimeno1

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I seriously doubt that 30 teams would have taken Clowney #1, but there's no doubt he was the concensus top pick of the 32 teams in the league. And as far as Clowney being a "generational talent", that is definitely over the top rhetoric which is reminescint of the Reggie Bush hype of almost 10 years ago.
My real complaint with the Texans/GM Smith on how they handled the top pick was what they were reportedly holding out for in terms of trading the pick. Some of the stories I heard bordered on downright silly (like insisting on multi-year first round picks from ATL.) Only top QB prospects have that kind of value.
 
ObsiWan said:
I don't know how you come to that conclusion. O'Brien passed him up which tells me O'Brien didn't think he had sufficient talent/smarts to be effective here.
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thunderkyss said:
Rumor has it that it was Bortles' name on that "other card," which would suggest we passed on him for another reason.
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and the other reason is IMHO"


I believe McNair made the decision to draft Clowney from his Alum because he didn't have the stomach to draft another QB, from a mid level school, that only had 1 year of production, with the #1 pick again. I believe Bob is still a little gun shy and still has a bad taste in his mouth from his 5 years with David Carr. Bob has been scarred.
 
Texian said:
and the other reason is IMHO"


I believe McNair made the decision to draft Clowney from his Alum because he didn't have the stomach to draft another QB, from a mid level school, that only had 1 year of production, with the #1 pick again. I believe Bob is still a little gun shy and still has a bad taste in his mouth from his 5 years with David Carr. Bob has been scarred.
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I bet they were feeling out the deal with New England. If they felt good about it happening, they were going to pass on a QB early, get Mallett & a QB at the top of the 5th.

If they could have got Mallett to sign a four year deal, we'd have had him back then.

I think they had everything worked out with New England already & Mallett was the hold up. So they felt good about making it happen & went with Clowney.

Not that they think Mallett is better than Bortles or anything like that, but they probably felt they could win sooner with Mallett & that's what Bob wanted.
 
Texian said:
and the other reason is IMHO"


I believe McNair made the decision to draft Clowney from his Alum because he didn't have the stomach to draft another QB, from a mid level school, that only had 1 year of production, with the #1 pick again. I believe Bob is still a little gun shy and still has a bad taste in his mouth from his 5 years with David Carr. Bob has been scarred.
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I don't think for a minute that McNair had much to do with that decision, and I'd bet that Billy made sure of that before he signed on with McNair as his new HC.
 
Texian said:
and the other reason is IMHO"


I believe McNair made the decision to draft Clowney from his Alum because he didn't have the stomach to draft another QB, from a mid level school, that only had 1 year of production, with the #1 pick again. I believe Bob is still a little gun shy and still has a bad taste in his mouth from his 5 years with David Carr. Bob has been scarred.
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wouldn't he have a weak stomach from the Mario Williams selection? way more build-up to a lemon car, awareness among established fan base, injured half time he was here then off somewhere else for more money. :turtle:
 
beerlover said:
wouldn't he have a weak stomach from the Mario Williams selection? way more build-up to a lemon car, awareness among established fan base, injured half time he was here then off somewhere else for more money. :turtle:
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Well, yes, but not like David Carr. Nothing beats spending your first ever overall #1 on a QB only to find out he is allergic to watching football video and is perfectly happy with the idea of being a career backup.

It's like you had all these hopes on your new, shiny CEO....and then you find out he is Norm Peterson. :gun:
 
HJam72 said:
Well, yes, but not like David Carr. Nothing beats spending your first ever overall #1 on a QB only to find out he is allergic to watching football video and is perfectly happy with the idea of being a career backup.

It's like you had all these hopes on your new, shiny CEO....and then you find out he is Norm Peterson. :gun:
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yeah, but David sure looked good in a football uniform and that was great for the Texans marketing department. Too bad his football skills were not as amazing as his pearly white smile. :D
 
Double Barrel said:
yeah, but David sure looked good in a football uniform and that was great for the Texans marketing department. Too bad his football skills were not as amazing as his pearly white smile. :D
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He made those gloves look awesome too. Maybe he can follow in Marino's footsteps and do Isotoner commercials. :freakout:
 
False Start said:
He made those gloves look awesome too. Maybe he can follow in Marino's footsteps and do Isotoner commercials. :freakout:
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Dude should have gigs lined up to endorse Isotoner gloves, Colgate toothpaste, and some sort of high end hair care products. :kitten:
 
Runner said:
1) Coaches aren't infallible.

2) Even if Clowney ends up being a good player here, it doesn't mean Bortles still wouldn't have played better with the Texans than with Jacksonville.

3) It is possible that O'Brien did think Bortles would fit his offense. Maybe O'Brien was confident enough in Mallet, who he was very familiar with, that he decided he didn't need a quarterback and that tilted the decision in Clowney's favor. This theory still might be true; it remains to be proven since Mallet hasn't had much playing time.


I don't understand the belief that because the Texans don't pick a player they aren't good enough to be effective here.
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1) True.

2) Right now there's no way to determine whether Bortles would or wouldn't have succeeded in O'Brien's offense.
...unless you think Jacksonville's offense is even more difficult than O'Brien's is to learn and are, therefore, surmising that while he's struggling in Jacksonville, the Houston offense would be easier for him to pick up and execute properly.
I don't know.

3) Maybe on their big board, Clowney simply graded out higher. In his post-draft interviews, O'Brien kept making the point that "we stuck to our board". So maybe Clowney was at the top of their board and Bortles had a mid-round grade. All that to say, maybe they thought Clowney was the better pick. And since they had already signed Fitzy, there was no pressing need to draft a QB at 1-1. ...or 2-1 ...or 3-1...


I just wonder, if O'Brien had a high eval on Mallett, why he didn't spend a pick (or two) on him and get him in the fold in time to get him some OTA/mini-camp/training camp reps. That still bugs me.
 
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