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Jacoby's Gotta Go/**UPDATE**Released

Carr Bombed said:
You act like people haven't been trying to replace him in the starting lineup either. One of those guys that was supposed to take his job is the same guy we're talking about right now.


But let's keep the dog and pony show going where we continue to say... "HEY GUYS!, stop looking at Jacoby and look over here!". :thisbig:
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Fooled me, because I don't see any "Kevin Walter has got to go" threads.
 
cbs1507 said:
That's different because he is a 2nd round pick and Foster was undrafted. So was an ill conceived example. Walter got his contract in FA just like Jones did. You cannot compare those 2. Nice try.

BTW I guarantee you Foster will be making more than Tate next season. ;)
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Nice spin job buddy, but it isn't going to fly.. Money has NOTHING to do with Jacoby's spot in the WR pecking order is. Walter was a 7th round tender who like Foster earned his money (Foster will get his) and his spot on the team.

Jacoby was a 3rd round pick who has played no better than a mediocre player (and calling him that was actually a compliment from me)...which is why he pulled the contract that he did. Kubes has proven he'll play players who earn playing time. The fact that Walter makes what he does and Jacoby makes what he does is NOT the reason why Walter plays ahead of Jacoby.. He plays ahead of Jacoby, because Walter is the better more consistent player...plain and simple.
 
Carr Bombed said:
Nice spin job buddy, but it isn't going to fly.. Money has NOTHING to do with Jacoby's spot in the WR pecking order is. Walter was a 7th round tender who like Foster earned his money (Foster will get his) and his spot on the team.

Jacoby was a 3rd round pick who has played no better than a mediocre player (and calling him that was actually a compliment from me)...which is why he pulled the contract that he did. Kubes has proven he'll play players who earn playing time. The fact that Walter makes what he does and Jacoby makes what he does is NOT the reason why Walter plays ahead of Jacoby.. He plays ahead of Jacoby, because Walter is the better more consistent player...plain and simple.
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Arian Foster and Ben Tate are on their ROOKIE CONTRACT. Kevin Walter an Jacoby Jones are NOT.

You tried to make an argument, but that was an epic fail. A 2nd round pick AUTOMATICALLY makes more than an undrafted rookie. After your rookie contract you get whatever you are. Jacoby is a #3 and got paid like 1. Point blank. Apparently, you don't even know what you were trying to argue.

BTW Not only does KW play ahead of JJ. He gets paid ahead as well.
http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/cap-hit/houston-texans/wide-receiver/
 
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cbs1507 said:
Arian Foster and Ben Tate are on their ROOKIE CONTRACT. Kevin Walter an Jacoby Jones are NOT.

You tried to make an argument, but that was an epic fail. Apparently, you don't even know what you were trying to argue.
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No, his argument is the same as mine. Jacoby has not been able to beat KDub as the #2 WR. He agrees KDub isn't a #2 WR, which makes it even more pathetic that Jj is still #3 on this depth chart.


There is some truth to that.

My point & I thought you were making the same point.. was that that's fine. We need #3 WRs & KDub & Jj are fine #3 WRs.

Like you said, we need a #2 WR. Hopefully getting rid of DA was a sign of things to come. I'd rather keep Jj. But if Kubes want KDub, I'm fine with that.. although I think Jj would end up on someone else's roster before KDub.
 
thunderkyss said:
No, his argument is the same as mine. Jacoby has not been able to beat KDub as the #2 WR. He agrees KDub isn't a #2 WR, which makes it even more pathetic that Jj is still #3 on this depth chart.


There is some truth to that.

My point & I thought you were making the same point.. was that that's fine. We need #3 WRs & KDub & Jj are fine #3 WRs.

Like you said, we need a #2 WR. Hopefully getting rid of DA was a sign of things to come. I'd rather keep Jj. But if Kubes want KDub, I'm fine with that.. although I think Jj would end up on someone else's roster before KDub.
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I never argued with that point, but these Jacoby haters just want to argue you down until you feel the same way they do. Which is more proof they use emotion instead of logic. Jacoby got paid paid like a #3, with hopes that he could earn a #2 contract when this one is up. Well, he has 2 years to do that. People are bashing him because he couldn't step up and be a #1, but he isn't a #1 (nor is he getting paid like 1) so they should just get over it.
 
cbs1507 said:
I never argued with that point, but these Jacoby haters just want to argue you down until you feel the same way they do. Which is more proof they use emotion instead of logic. Jacoby got paid paid like a #3, with hopes that he could earn a #2 contract when this one is up. Well, he has 2 years to do that. People are bashing him because he couldn't step up and be a #1, but he isn't a #1 (nor is he getting paid like 1) so they should just get over it.
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7 years to become a #2..... who are we talking about, Brandon Lloyd?
 
thunderkyss said:
7 years to become a #2..... who are we talking about, Brandon Lloyd?
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No his contract is only 3 million guaranteed over 3 years the rest was just incentive based. There is no risk in that. That is #3 money, and he is a #3 WR. They were hoping for a bargain, but they just got their money's worth.
 
cbs1507 said:
No his contract is only 2 years 3 million guaranteed the 3rd year is an option. There is not risk. That is #3 money, and he is a #3 WR. They were hoping for a bargain, but they just got their money's worth (possibly a slight premium).
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I'm with you, I understand. But... in all honesty, his development days are done. He is what he is. & unless we get a big armed QB we're not going to see much more from Jacoby.

I like the guy, I really do. Just saying, that "2 years to develop into a #1" line didn't sit well.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm with you, I understand. But... in all honesty, his development days are done. He is what he is. & unless we get a big armed QB we're not going to see much more from Jacoby.

I like the guy, I really do. Just saying, that "2 years to develop into a #1" line didn't sit well.
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I agree. But I never saw him as a #1 or even a #2. He can be a decent #3 that can stretch the field in the slot (which can be dangerous).
 
God bless America and spit on Russia. Why is Jones still a part of Texans's history? How effing hard is it to say adios to loserville? Does Kubiak need Phillips to do it for him? Makes that whole head coach article make a lot more sense.
 
DocBar said:
God bless America and spit on Russia. Why is Jones still a part of Texans's history? How effing hard is it to say adios to loserville? Does Kubiak need Phillips to do it for him? Makes that whole head coach article make a lot more sense.
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I like Jacoby. Hope he'll be a Texans for a long time.
 
I literally lol at those who say Yates does not know by now the best NFL receiver was not going to be covered up. That is just hilarious.
 
gary said:
I literally lol at those who say Yates does not know by now the best NFL receiver was not going to be covered up. That is just hilarious.
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Umm...how about you go pull up where anybody even said that..

I seriously remember NOBODY saying that "Yates did not know the best NFL receiver in the game was not going to draw extra coverage". If you can find it, please post it...

I do however remember people talking about Yates' "inexperience", and with inexperience and a young rook comes the "INABILITY" to progress through reads or even the ability to make the right reads. See Dalton against our defense (who just got added to the probowl)...

Again a dog and pony show on full effect. NOBODY is acting like Yates' play didn't play a part in that loss. However to act like Yates needs to be hanged or given the same ridicule over his play in the game as Jacoby is what is "Hilarious" in this thread so far..

Player A..... 5th round rookie who played over his head.

Player B..... 5th year vet who screws the pooch on routine plays.

Now when you can tell me what I'm whiffing on here, please let me know.
 
cbs1507 said:
Fooled me, because I don't see any "Kevin Walter has got to go" threads.
Click to expand...

There's a search feature...try using it. People have been talking about adding another #2 for awhile now. And the fact that they have been and your boy STILL hasn't stepped up to the plate only further confirms why he has to go and isn't even a quality #3 receiver. If we had that high quality #2, Walter would be the #3 because Jacoby can't move ahead of him on the depth chart.

The only reason why Jacoby is even in discussion for the #3 spot is because of the lack of talent behind Andre...it has NOTHING to do with Jacoby actually earning a #3 spot on a good WR depth chart. So if we do indeed upgrade the roster, odds are he won't even be able to hold on to the #3 receiver spot.
 
Carr Bombed said:
There's a search feature...try using it. People have been talking about adding another #2 for awhile now. And the fact that they have been and your boy STILL hasn't stepped up to the plate only further confirms why he has to go and isn't even a quality #3 receiver. If we had that high quality #2, Walter would be the #3 because Jacoby can't move ahead of him on the depth chart.

The only reason why Jacoby is even in discussion for the #3 spot is because of the lack of talent behind Andre...it has NOTHING to do with Jacoby actually earning a #3 spot on a good WR depth chart. So if we do indeed upgrade the roster, odds are he won't even be able to hold on to the #3 receiver spot.
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Yeah I typed in Kevin Walter and no thread popped up that was bashing him. I'm sure there a post here and there saying it, but no thread (and there's 250 pages so I bet none of them have anything to do with bashing Walter). However, I did find a thread bashing Jacoby Jones (go figure). lol

The only reason why people are so upset is because they actually thought this guy could step up and be a #1 or at least a #2. When did he ever convince you people that? lol He was always a #3 in my book. There is a reason management gave him a 3 year $10 million contract, with only 3 million guaranteed. It's because he is not a #2. He is not physical off the LOS. He is not the best route runner. They should just stick to him being an occasional deep threat in 3+ WR sets. They had Lestar Jean in training camp and was had high hopes for him, but he got injured. They will try to bring in an actual #2 and relieve some of the pressure (Jacoby obviously cannot handle). He is making $3 million over 3 years, that is #3 money. Stop expecting more from the guy, and more importantly lighten up on the bashing. He'll probably be here next season, and have a solid season (just as the #3 that he is).
 
For the record, there have been threads - or at least many posts - addressing the need to bring in someone to replace K.W. @ #2 WR for at least a couple of years.
"Please, Please, Pleeeease bring someone in that stretches the field so they can't just double A.J. all the time" was their battle cry.
But we seemed to always have other positions that were of greater need to be addressed....
Needed a solid LT to replace Salaam.
Needed an upgrade at OLB to replace Greenwood.
Needed a solid, dependable RB to replace Fumblitis Slaton.
Needed a CB to replace "Pay-Me-Rick"
Needed solid safeties to replace the two guys we had back there last year
...there was always something.

Damn, when I look back at what we were working with in seasons past compared to what we have now, it's a wonder we didn't suck worse....

Well, now there seems to be nothing else more pressing than upgrading that #2 WR spot.

K.W. and J.J. will be here come camp time. And like Slaton before them (when Jer. Johnson and A. Foster were brought in) they'll have to fight to keep their spots on the depth chart.
It'll be interesting to see who Smithiak brings in and more interesting to see what happens in camp.

I can't wait.
 
im sure its been said already but im pretty sure he can be easily replaced via draft at a fraction of the price, we can bring someone in and let them battle it out and see who comes up on top
 
Carr Bombed said:
Umm...how about you go pull up where anybody even said that..

I seriously remember NOBODY saying that "Yates did not know the best NFL receiver in the game was not going to draw extra coverage". If you can find it, please post it...

I do however remember people talking about Yates' "inexperience", and with inexperience and a young rook comes the "INABILITY" to progress through reads or even the ability to make the right reads. See Dalton against our defense (who just got added to the probowl)...

Again a dog and pony show on full effect. NOBODY is acting like Yates' play didn't play a part in that loss. However to act like Yates needs to be hanged or given the same ridicule over his play in the game as Jacoby is what is "Hilarious" in this thread so far..

Player A..... 5th round rookie who played over his head.

Player B..... 5th year vet who screws the pooch on routine plays.

Now when you can tell me what I'm whiffing on here, please let me know.
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At the end of the day Yates was the player who had the biggest role in our loss that's just the facts years played in the nfl don't change that
 
Ok, so a bunch of yall say Jones' has got to go. Who are you replacing him with?

Keeping in mind that releasing Jones is 2.4 million dollars out the door with nothing to show for it.

So now you need a WR who can return punts reliably. Remember, he had zero muffed punts all season.


???????
 
Rush 11 every punt. No dudes running back on coverage or worrying about blocking. If you don't get to the kicker in time...just let the ball roll.
 
ObsiWan said:
For the record, there have been threads - or at least many posts - addressing the need to bring in someone to replace K.W. @ #2 WR for at least a couple of years.
"Please, Please, Pleeeease bring someone in that stretches the field so they can't just double A.J. all the time" was their battle cry.
But we seemed to always have other positions that were of greater need to be addressed....
Click to expand...

I don't know that we need a second WR to take pressure of Aj... seriously.

Looking back on our history, it appears to me that we've thrown the ball a lot (two 4000+ yards from Schaub) out of necessity. But, since Kubiak got here, he's wanted a ball-control running offense. Just never had been able to do it until this year & we've seen Schaub's attempts come way down.

If everything works out the way Kubiak wants it to, Matt won't be throwing the ball much more than 20 times a game very often. & Andre seems to get WTF open almost anytime he wants. If Andre isn't open, somebody else is.

With all that said, I do agree we need to get someone as the heir apparent to Andre, but WRs adjust to the league pretty fast so I don't know if the time is now to get that player.

I'd love it if we had players better than KDub & Jj on our WR depth chart, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying any different.

Only that the idea is to get Andre's replacement, not help to take pressure off of him...... the play action does that.
 
Carr Bombed said:
Umm...how about you go pull up where anybody even said that..

I seriously remember NOBODY saying that "Yates did not know the best NFL receiver in the game was not going to draw extra coverage". If you can find it, please post it...

I do however remember people talking about Yates' "inexperience", and with inexperience and a young rook comes the "INABILITY" to progress through reads or even the ability to make the right reads. See Dalton against our defense (who just got added to the probowl)...

Again a dog and pony show on full effect. NOBODY is acting like Yates' play didn't play a part in that loss. However to act like Yates needs to be hanged or given the same ridicule over his play in the game as Jacoby is what is "Hilarious" in this thread so far..

Player A..... 5th round rookie who played over his head.

Player B..... 5th year vet who screws the pooch on routine plays.

Now when you can tell me what I'm whiffing on here, please let me know.
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He was locked onto AJ way too much he should know by now not to thrown into triple teams. No one said it but it was pretty obvious to me that Yates played as if he did not know that. Nervous? Surely he was so I won't ridicule him too much because overall I thought he did O.K. in game number two on the road and a lot better the week prior to Baltimore so major kudos to him. I hope he learns and he gets better. You take those fourteen points off turnovers away and Houston wins that game big time. If he had not been locked onto Walter on that one play and AJ on the others as well as the JJ fumble then the Texans would have been playing the Patriots last Sunday. 50/50 blame to go around but life goes on I still think the fault should be equal though. I have moved onto next season now the sport is not going anywhere..
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't know that we need a second WR to take pressure of Aj... seriously.

Looking back on our history, it appears to me that we've thrown the ball a lot (two 4000+ yards from Schaub) out of necessity. But, since Kubiak got here, he's wanted a ball-control running offense. Just never had been able to do it until this year & we've seen Schaub's attempts come way down.

If everything works out the way Kubiak wants it to, Matt won't be throwing the ball much more than 20 times a game very often. & Andre seems to get WTF open almost anytime he wants. If Andre isn't open, somebody else is.

With all that said, I do agree we need to get someone as the heir apparent to Andre, but WRs adjust to the league pretty fast so I don't know if the time is now to get that player.

I'd love it if we had players better than KDub & Jj on our WR depth chart, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying any different.

Only that the idea is to get Andre's replacement, not help to take pressure off of him...... the play action does that.
Click to expand...

I still think it's time to do it. I don't know if it qualifies as a need, but I believe it's the closest thing we have to one, other than a 10 yr. contract for Phillips as D.C. (well, if he can stay healthy enough).
 
thunderkyss said:
Looking back on our history, it appears to me that we've thrown the ball a lot (two 4000+ yards from Schaub) out of necessity. But, since Kubiak got here, he's wanted a ball-control running offense. Just never had been able to do it until this year & we've seen Schaub's attempts come way down.
Click to expand...

Where does this myth come from? With the league's leading rusher we passed for 4370 yards. Schaub was on pace for his 3rd straight 4000 yard season when he got injured. He was averaging 30 attempts per game. Yes Kubiak wants a solid running game. That isn't the same as not wanting to pass.
 
infantrycak said:
Where does this myth come from? With the league's leading rusher we passed for 4370 yards. Schaub was on pace for his 3rd straight 4000 yard season when he got injured. He was averaging 30 attempts per game. Yes Kubiak wants a solid running game. That isn't the same as not wanting to pass.
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It's not that he doesn't want to pass, but when you are ahead or close at the end of games you can run the ball more.

Yes Schaub was averaging 29.something attemps/gm but that was his lowest att/gm since his arrival here in 2007.

His Yards per game was also down this year as well as his completion percentage. His completion percentage was as low as it's been since his first two years in the league.

What he was doing was hitting on more big plays. His YPC was higher than it's ever been.
 
Super Mario said:
Ok, so a bunch of yall say Jones' has got to go. Who are you replacing him with?

Keeping in mind that releasing Jones is 2.4 million dollars out the door with nothing to show for it.

So now you need a WR who can return punts reliably. Remember, he had zero muffed punts all season.


???????
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Still waiting on an answer to this. Alot of people spotting a "problem", but offering no solutions.
 
Rey said:
It's not that he doesn't want to pass, but when you are ahead or close at the end of games you can run the ball more. ...
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True. The rest was irrelevant to the point which was play-calling. There is nothing in Kubiak's play-calling history to suggest he wants to throw the ball only 20 times per game. Kubiak is a former QB known for working with QB's.

Super Mario said:
Still waiting on an answer to this. Alot of people spotting a "problem", but offering no solutions.
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My opinion is with any player you don't cut them until you have a replacement you are pretty confident is better.

Where did you get the $2.4 mil to cut him figure? My understanding is the guaranteed money in his contract was not a signing bonus it was a guaranteed first year salary in which case there is little or no cap effect to cut him.
 
infantrycak said:
True. The rest was irrelevant to the point which was play-calling. There is nothing in Kubiak's play-calling history to suggest he wants to throw the ball only 20 times per game. Kubiak is a former QB known for working with QB's.



My opinion is with any player you don't cut them until you have a replacement you are pretty confident is better.

Where did you get the $2.4 mil to cut him figure? My understanding is the guaranteed money in his contract was not a signing bonus it was a guaranteed first year salary in which case there is little or no cap effect to cut him.
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Where did you get this information from? I think you saw that he got a $10 million contract with $3 million guaranteed and drew the conclusion that it meant 1 year guaranteed. Wrong. $3 million guaranteed over the life of the contract. He only got $600k this season. Which means he has $2.4 million left to earn. You can cut him if you want to, but that's dead cap space if you do.
 
cbs1507 said:
Where did you get this information from? I think you saw that he got a $10 million contract with $3 million guaranteed and drew the conclusion that it meant 1 year guaranteed. Wrong. $3 million guaranteed over the life of the contract. He only got $600k this season. Which means he has $2.4 million left to earn. You can cut him if you want to, but that's dead cap space if you do.
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I heard the first year's salary was guaranteed at just around $3 mil on the radio so I didn't draw any conclusions other than remembering it. Now where did you get your info?
 
infantrycak said:
I heard the first year's salary was guaranteed at just around $3 mil on the radio so I didn't draw any conclusions other than remembering it. Now where did you get your info?
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That's what I thought as well. I did see the website linked to earlier, showing a $670 some thousand dollar salary. But, for all we know that was his salary & the $2.4 million was paid as a roster bonus or something this year.

From my understanding, there would be no dead money if Jacoby was cut this year.
 
infantrycak said:
Where does this myth come from? With the league's leading rusher we passed for 4370 yards. Schaub was on pace for his 3rd straight 4000 yard season when he got injured. He was averaging 30 attempts per game. Yes Kubiak wants a solid running game. That isn't the same as not wanting to pass.
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Agreed...Kubiak wants balance. He says it more than shucks, dang, and "nicked up" and kids combined.
 
infantrycak said:
I heard the first year's salary was guaranteed at just around $3 mil on the radio so I didn't draw any conclusions other than remembering it. Now where did you get your info?
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This is from rotoworld.com

7/29/2011: Signed a three-year, $10.5 million contract. The deal contains $3 million guaranteed. 2011-2013: Under Contract, 2014: Free Agent
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This is from spotrac.com

Contract:3 yr(s) / $10,500,000
Signing Bonus $450,000
Free Agent:2014 / Unrestricted
2011 BASE SALARY - $467,280
2011 S. BONUS - $150,000
2011 MISC. BONUS - N/A
2011 CAP HIT - 617,280
2012 NA
2013 NA
2014 UFA
$3 million guaranteed
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Chron.com reported

Jones agreed to a three-year contract worth $10.5 million, with $3.5 million guaranteed.
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Without direct knowledge of the contract payout, I am making the assumption that the contract is somewhat back-loaded and that he is getting around 4 million for the 2012 season, and around 6 million for the 2013 season.

The radio hosts you heard could have mistaken Jones' first year salary for the contract's guaranteed amount. Or maybe they are correct and sportrac is wrong. Either way, I dont think they are going to find a better replacement. His status on this team really depends on if they are able to save alot of money or not.
 
infantrycak said:
I heard the first year's salary was guaranteed at just around $3 mil on the radio so I didn't draw any conclusions other than remembering it. Now where did you get your info?
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thunderkyss said:
That's what I thought as well. I did see the website linked to earlier, showing a $670 some thousand dollar salary. But, for all we know that was his salary & the $2.4 million was paid as a roster bonus or something this year.

From my understanding, there would be no dead money if Jacoby was cut this year.
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http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/hou/

That may have been what you've heard, and he may have been paid the bonus up front. But his cap hit was about $600k this year, which means he has $2.4 million left for the next 2 years. He can very well be cut, but we will have $2.4 million on the books for the next 2 years.
 
cbs1507 said:
Where did you get this information from? I think you saw that he got a $10 million contract with $3 million guaranteed and drew the conclusion that it meant 1 year guaranteed. Wrong. $3 million guaranteed over the life of the contract. He only got $600k this season. Which means he has $2.4 million left to earn. You can cut him if you want to, but that's dead cap space if you do.
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infantrycak said:
I heard the first year's salary was guaranteed at just around $3 mil on the radio so I didn't draw any conclusions other than remembering it. Now where did you get your info?
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Super Mario said:
This is from rotoworld.com

This is from spotrac.com

Chron.com reported

Without direct knowledge of the contract payout, I am making the assumption that the contract is somewhat back-loaded and that he is getting around 4 million for the 2012 season, and around 6 million for the 2013 season.


The radio hosts you heard could have mistaken Jones' first year salary for the contract's guaranteed amount. Or maybe they are correct and sportrac is wrong. Either way, I dont think they are going to find a better replacement. His status on this team really depends on if they are able to save alot of money or not.
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The only place I've seen/heard the $600K is spotrac, and I've stated before, I really question their info. Not only do they have different info. for Mario than most "verbal" reports I've heard, but they've got Julius Peppers reflected as having a $84 Million contract with a cumulative lifetime cap amount (2010 thru 2016 combined) of $110.5 Million.

Julius Peppers $110.5 Million cumulative Cap hit

Kind of makes you take anything and everything they publish with a giant grain of salt.
 
ChampionTexan said:
The only place I've seen/heard the $600K is spotrac, and I've stated before, I really question their info. Not only do they have different info. for Mario than most "verbal" reports I've heard, but they've got Julius Peppers reflected as having a $84 Million contract with a cumulative lifetime cap amount (2010 thru 2016 combined) of $110.5 Million.

Julius Peppers $110.5 Million cumulative Cap hit

Kind of makes you take anything and everything they publish with a giant grain of salt.
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They are actually accurate. You have to pay attention to the drop menu. It gives 3 options:
1) Base salary (the base salary that they get per year for the duration of the contract)
2) Average salary (the average salary they get per year for the duration of the contract)
3) Cap hit (the actual cap hit per year for the duration of the salary)

The most important one is cap hit, because it allows you to understand how much cap space you are working with.
 
cbs1507 said:
That may have been what you've heard, and he may have been paid the bonus up front. But his cap hit was about $600k this year, which means he has $2.4 million left for the next 2 years. He can very well be cut, but we will have $2.4 million on the books for the next 2 years.
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First off I didn't "hear" anything "on the radio" from rotoworld. Second you are mixing up guarantees and signing bonuses. If he was paid $3 mil as a signing bonus his cap hit this year would have been $1 mil + whatever salary.

The Texans have been big on this contract structure recently of minimizing signing bonuses and guaranteeing early salaries.
 
cbs1507 said:
They are actually accurate. You have to pay attention to the drop menu. It gives 3 options:
1) Base salary (the base salary that they get per year for the duration of the contract)
2) Average salary (the average salary they get per year for the duration of the contract)
3) Cap hit (the actual cap hit per year for the duration of the salary)

The most important one is cap hit, because it allows you to understand how much cap space you are working with.
Click to expand...

So if it's accurate, how does a $84 Million contract have a "CAP HIT" column that adds up to $110.5 Million? How does the base salary column total $73.6 Million, while the Miscellaneous bonus column totals $31 Million?
 
Another number I am seeing in various places is this.

Due a $3 million base salary in 2012
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Jones' contract included $3.5 million in guarantees -- his $1.5 million signing bonus and $2 million base salary -- with $7 million in base salary over the final two seasons.
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Piecing it together his contract would look like this.

3 years / 10,500,000 total

Signing Bonus: 1.5 million

2011 2 million base
2012 3 million base
2013 4 million base

In this structure we would have to assume that his signing bonus was either paid up front, or split into three $500,000 payments. Assuming it was split to keep under the cap, his 2011 cap hit was 3 million. That means the Texans could release Jones and only have $500,000 as dead cap money. Then they could go out and draft a rookie for under a million a year, easy.
 
infantrycak said:
First off I didn't "hear" anything "on the radio" from rotoworld. Second you are mixing up guarantees and signing bonuses. If he was paid $3 mil as a signing bonus his cap hit this year would have been $1 mil + whatever salary.

The Texans have been big on this contract structure recently of minimizing signing bonuses and guaranteeing early salaries.
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First off, sir I did not say you got your information from rotoworld. You clearly told me you heard your info from the radio. You asked me where I got my info, so I was answering YOUR question.

Second, that is my point. His cap hit was $600k therefore I drew the conclusion he did not get $3 million up front. I never saw anything about a $3 million bonus or 1st year $3 million salary. Every source I have seen says he got $3 million guaranteed. If you can show me where it says he got the $3 million guaranteed up front as a bonus or as his first year salary please show me because I have yet to find it.

What some people seem to not grasp is the concept of guaranteed money in an NFL contract. If a player signs a 3 year $10 million contract with $3 million guaranteed, this does not mean he gets $3 million up front and you are relieved of cap space if you release him the next season. It means that the $3 million guaranteed is what he is entitled to over the duration of the contract. The guaranteed $3 million is dispersed over the 3 years, not a bonus or guaranteed salary for the 1 year. If we release Jacoby we still owe him $2.4 million even if he plays for another team.
 
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infantrycak said:
Where does this myth come from? With the league's leading rusher we passed for 4370 yards. Schaub was on pace for his 3rd straight 4000 yard season when he got injured. He was averaging 30 attempts per game. Yes Kubiak wants a solid running game. That isn't the same as not wanting to pass.
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What myth? It was an observation. If you think it's baseless, just say so. Myth?

pssh.

Last year, with the league's leading rusher, we played from behind in most games... which goes along with my statement, "out of necessity"

This year, even with a healthy Schaub his attempts had been down compared to earlier seasons. In the games we took the lead early, Schaub did not throw for more than 25 times. We routed Indy at home 31-7, Matt threw 24 times. The Route in Tennessee, 41-7, 23 times. Cleveland, 30-12.... 23 times. TB 37-9.... 15 attempts.

If Kubiak had his way, I believe, based on my observation, all our games would go this way. If however, we do not establish an early lead, then we'll throw the ball to get into the game.
 
cbs1507 said:
First off, sir I did not say you got your information from rotoworld. You clearly told me you heard your info from the radio. You asked me where I got my info, so I was answering YOUR question. ...
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You are still not answering it. Rotoworld doesn't say what you asserted. It's cool. Super Mario has provided several links albeit they don't agree.

And yes I understand the difference between signing bonuses, roster bonuses and guaranteed salary (which often is only guaranteed for injury by the way - had you considered that?).
 
infantrycak said:
You are still not answering it. Rotoworld doesn't say what you asserted. It's cool. Super Mario has provided several links albeit they don't agree.

And yes I understand the difference between signing bonuses, roster bonuses and guaranteed salary (which often is only guaranteed for injury by the way - had you considered that?).
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http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/hou/

Jacoby Jones' contract...

7/29/2011: Signed a three-year, $10.5 million contract. The deal contains $3 million guaranteed. 2011-2013: Under Contract, 2014: Free Agent
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He has $3 million guaranteed regardless of injury or any unforeseeable circumstance. He will make $3 million regardless if we release him or keep him. He only got $600k this season, so therefore if we release him he will still get paid $2.4 million by the Texans even if he is on another team.

The point that I am making is that Jacoby Jones got $3 million guaranteed in his contract. Teams do not pay the full guaranteed upfront (that would hurt cap space). The $3 million is dispersed over the life of the contract (in Jacoby's case 3 years). Point blank.
 
cbs1507 said:
http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/hou/

The point that I am making is that Jacoby Jones got $3 million guaranteed in his contract. Teams do not pay the full guaranteed upfront (that would hurt cap space). The $3 million is dispersed over the life of the contract (in Jacoby's case 3 years). Point blank.
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Do you have anything showing his cap hit was only $600K?

I understand that was his salary, but if he was given a bonus, his cap number would have been more. If he got a $2.4M roster bonus, it would all hit this year & he would cost nothing to cut.

If it was a signing bonus, then we will pro-rate it over the life of the contract.

If, you are saying that he will earn $9.4M over the next two years..... I'm not buying it. I've seen salaries escalate, but nothing like that.
 
thunderkyss said:
Do you have anything showing his cap hit was only $600K?

I understand that was his salary, but if he was given a bonus, his cap number would have been more. If he got a $2.4M roster bonus, it would all hit this year & he would cost nothing to cut.

If it was a signing bonus, then we will pro-rate it over the life of the contract.

If, you are saying that he will earn $9.4M over the next two years..... I'm not buying it. I've seen salaries escalate, but nothing like that.
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http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/jacoby-jones/

According to this that is the case. But you make a good point though. I hope you are right. If not, I believe management will be busy restructuring contracts and some people will be cut in order to sign Foster and/or Williams to long term deals.

BTW I found this article that confirms your scenario.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...y-what-to-make-of-re-signing-jones-and-butler

It is really hard to find anything about the details of Texans contracts (there so many conflicting sources), so I'll keep looking. The one things that is constant everywhere is that his contract has $3 million guaranteed.

It doesn't make sense to guarantee him $3 million up front for this year, it seems more logical that it was dispersed (since guaranteed $ is usually prorated for the duration of the contract). most likely it is a 3 year $10 million contract in which Jacoby will have to earn the $10 million through production, and will get $3 regardless. So if he produces like he has in the past h will only get $3 million, but if his potential comes into fruition on the field he can earn the full $10 million. But that's just a hunch.
 
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I don't have a link to anything, but I'm almost certain that McClain said on the radio last year that Jacoby's deal was essentially a year-to-year contract and that we wouldn't have a big cap hit should we choose to move on. I could be wrong, and I'm sure the specifics of this will come to light soon enough. I just can't see a situation where we guarantee him 3 million this year no matter what. I know Rick Smith would have to be smarter than this.
 
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