NitroGSXR
Super Sic #58
I agree with everything.
As for #2, I was looking at it wrong. I was thinking 48 million PLUS the dollar costs of two seconds. You're right. I should have subtracted. ThePencilNeck was right. Schaub was a steal.
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Jacoby's Gotta Go/**UPDATE**Released
- Thread starter Mr. White
- Start date
I agree with everything.
As for #2, I was looking at it wrong. I was thinking 48 million PLUS the dollar costs of two seconds. You're right. I should have subtracted. ThePencilNeck was right. Schaub was a steal.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
If that play 5 minutes into the game putting you down 4 points cost you the game you had no business in the playoffs and werent going to win anyhow. Maybe if we didnt have the muffed punt, 3 ints and missed FG we would have won the game. The people talking about the momentum totally being lost 5 min into the game are just making excuses for the poor performance on the offensive side of the ball
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Jacoby gave away more points.
But maybe it wasn't Yates fault for the INT's. It was probably Jacoby's bad routes which made him force the ball into coverage
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Spin it however you would like.
Fact is Wade added the players he wanted in FA and the draft. The defense went from historically bad to top 5. Rick had very little to do with this. Just as he had very little to do with picking defensive players when Bush was here. Except for Ricks area of expertise DB's.
Why do you think BoB made Wade the highest paid DC in the NFL? To build a defense that wasn't the embarassment that the 2010 defense was?
Mission accomplished Wade. BTW I expect the defense tpo take a step back next yr due to the level of competition they will be facing next yr. But anything will be an imrprovement ove what was the debacle that was the 2010 defense.
BTW, Concerning Jacoby, Gary is loyal to his guys to fault. But I would rather a HC be this way than the other.
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
Its you who's doing the spinning here I'm afraid, a good GM provides his coaches with the players they are looking for to fit their scheme. That relies on receiving information on what the coach is looking for, passing it to the scouts, then receiving scouting reports and passing it to the coach for feedback. If either the scouting dept. or coach is poor at talent evaluation then the whole system breaks down.
Look at whats been achieved on the O with mostly late round picks, late round trades, and some bottom of the barrel FA's.
Look at what we got in last years draft, do you honestly believe that Wade spent his time off before signing with Houston managing his own scouting team to put together a shortlist of players he liked and handed it to Smith?
Because I don't, I think Rick had his scouting dept. organised really well, when Wade came in only a couple of months ahead of the draft, the information had already been collected and with his preferences applied we came up with a shortlist to work from.
Team effort if you ask me, and the sudden improvement can be put down to how much better Wade Smith is than Frank Bush, not how much better he is than Rick Smith, given that Rick did the majority of the legwork in organising that draft.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
5 year veteran ---------------> -7 points and momentum. This, just after the defense caused the Ravens to go three and out on their first possesion. AND during a game where you need to play with a lead to help protect your rook. Summary: Jackassery!
Rookie QB (who was holding a clip board most of the season) --------------> -10 Summary: rookie mistakes,
It's not a matter of which guy gave up more points, but what points were more costly to the outcome of the game. Surely the 5 year vet. should bear more of the responsibililty than a rookie QB put in that spot.
Rookie QB (who was holding a clip board most of the season) --------------> -10 Summary: rookie mistakes,
It's not a matter of which guy gave up more points, but what points were more costly to the outcome of the game. Surely the 5 year vet. should bear more of the responsibililty than a rookie QB put in that spot.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
It's all semantics and how you define tier 1, tier 2, etc. You lump them together differently than I do.
No biggie.
Premier
Rookie
10 to 7..
seeing as how a ravens offense (who struggled the entire game) had to only go a WHOLE 2 yards after the jacoby muff for the TD.. it was a gimmie 7...
jacoby actually muffed 2 punts (recovered the 2nd), lost yardage on another 2 punts, and had ZERO receptions..
jacoby was a waste of space that sunday.. completely useless.. GOOD RIDDANCE...
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
FIFY, the bum could not even get himself open. This is why I don't really get the whole punt muff debacle. Dude was meant to be our #3 WR, should have made himself our #2, and with our #1 reciever and #1 TE both playing through pretty serious injuries that did affect their performance, he couldn't even make himself an option.
When desperation time came, it was a better option to chuck a jump ball at a one legged, triple covered AJ time and again than chance looking in Jacoby's direction.
IMO, that is 10 times worse than muffing the punt, which was a stupid decision rather than simple lack of ability.
Beats the heck out of me. Jones wasn't the one who threw picks on three different drives where we could have scored. That's minimum NINE points right there.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Jeremiah W at Ravens24x7.com said:
BullBlitz
Section 331
Hope not.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
When you've got a rookie QB, especially your 3rd stringer, going against one of the best defenses in the league, you don't expect him not to make mistakes. We knew going in he was going to have a rough day and that the rest of the team would have to help carry TJ.
Jacoby was one of the vets that was supposed to be carrying TJ by not making stupid mistakes.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
It's nothing but excuses. Yates cost us more points and more drives than jacoby did. Your QB rookie or not is responsible for leading the team for at least half the game. Jacoby didn't cost us the game. Jacoby, Yates and missed Fgs cost us the game.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
OK. So you would have cut TJ and kept Jacoby? Is that the point you're making?
Are you saying that Jacoby had nothing whatsoever to do with us losing?
How is this still worth discussing? It was as clear as daylight that Jones completely gave away early game momentum. Yes the D clawed us back within striking distance, but it was a game against a veteran playoff team with one of the best defenses in league where none of our veterans had the leeway to make mistakes. Yes TJ Yates made mistakes and threw 3 dumb picks. Everyone was expecting that to happen considering TJ Yates was a rookie 3rd stringer. We knew he would be rattled. Anyone that didn't think it would eventually happen, needs to get their brain checked out for tumors.
Jones on the other hand botched the punt returns two games in a row (in case you forgot, he field a punt off the bounce against Cincy but fortunately caught it). This is INEXCUSABLE for a 5 year veteran, much less one that we already demoted from heir to WR#1 to kick returner, to consistently make those types of retarded mistakes, especially in the biggest games of his career. We weren't even asking this lousy sack of crap to carry us anymore. We were just asking him to be simply productive at that point in time and he continued to prove that he really was nothing but dead air between the ears. His mistake was far more damaging than Yates given that the team was counting on him much more as a tenured veteran.
The muffed punt is not the only reason we are so pissed off with this mentally degenerate. As you would recall, the great majority of Texans fans wanted him gone even before the season started.
Jones on the other hand botched the punt returns two games in a row (in case you forgot, he field a punt off the bounce against Cincy but fortunately caught it). This is INEXCUSABLE for a 5 year veteran, much less one that we already demoted from heir to WR#1 to kick returner, to consistently make those types of retarded mistakes, especially in the biggest games of his career. We weren't even asking this lousy sack of crap to carry us anymore. We were just asking him to be simply productive at that point in time and he continued to prove that he really was nothing but dead air between the ears. His mistake was far more damaging than Yates given that the team was counting on him much more as a tenured veteran.
The muffed punt is not the only reason we are so pissed off with this mentally degenerate. As you would recall, the great majority of Texans fans wanted him gone even before the season started.
Winston and Brisiel helped the Texans be one of the top teams at running the ball, and they were also good in pass protection. I don't know why the Texans didn't release Wade Smith instead of Brisiel. Wade Smith was the worst starter on the OLine and he is older.
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/13/eric-winston-hits-the-market/
The Texans cut Eric Winston. To quote Vonta Leach, Are you kidding me?
Consistently one of our higher graded right tackles, Winston fit the zone-blocking scheme perfectly with his ability to move laterally and get to the second level. His agility is a big reason why the Texans have had so much success in the run game recently. Whats more, hes coming off a very good year with his pass protection. Not an easy feat when, for a large portion of the year, you have a rookie quarterback that likes holding onto the ball. While it may not seem like a lot, but the extra tenth of a second T.J. Yates held onto the ball meant he did so the fifth longest of all quarterbacks
Brisiel wasn't released, he was an unrestricted free agent. Wade Smith is under contract for the 2012 season at a $2 million salary.
The salary cap is why Brisiel and Winston are no longer on the Texans. They were solid players. But the main reasons the Texans are one of the top teams running the ball are Arian Foster and Ben Tate. Brisiel and Winston are not superstars. Terrell Suggs is a superstar. He will be much tougher to replace than Brisiel and Winston.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
I'm fine with jones being cut but that has nothing to do with what I've said. Never once did I say Jones had nothing to do with the loss. I said he wasn't the reason or the major reason. It was jones, Yates and missed fg
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
OK. Jones was ONE of the reasons, how about that?
I don't think anyone has said that TJ wasn't a reason we lost. But, as I said earlier, we expected him to play that way and if you didn't, you should have. A rookie is a rookie.
Premier
Rookie
jacoby spotted the ravens 7 points, its as simple as that. then he became a complete non-factor in every other aspect of the game.
interceptions happen, Brady threw 2 INTs the next week against The Ravens, defenses respond to interceptions.. its tough to ask your defense to force a 3 and out then immediately have to make a goal line stand at the 2 yard line..
interceptions happen, Brady threw 2 INTs the next week against The Ravens, defenses respond to interceptions.. its tough to ask your defense to force a 3 and out then immediately have to make a goal line stand at the 2 yard line..
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Brady has nothing to do with the texans loss. Our defense didn't seem to have a problem during the game with the ravens either. Our offense had the problems add in jones and there is the loss.
Premier
Rookie
thats not even close to being the point, maybe expectations of a rookie qb to play perfect football were a bit unrealistic, seeing as how a future HOF turned the ball over as well against the very same team the next week..
either way, with tj's struggles, he threw for more yards than flacco, had more YPC than flacco, and more first downs.. the texans outplayed the ravens in every facet of the game. both offenses looked terrible to say the least. the difference was the ravens played an ugly, error-free football game and capitalized on the texans mistakes..
you take away that stupid goof up by jacoby and its a different ball game..
either way, with tj's struggles, he threw for more yards than flacco, had more YPC than flacco, and more first downs.. the texans outplayed the ravens in every facet of the game. both offenses looked terrible to say the least. the difference was the ravens played an ugly, error-free football game and capitalized on the texans mistakes..
you take away that stupid goof up by jacoby and its a different ball game..
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Everytime I see these words associated with Winston in print, I picture a blackboard and hear some really awful sounds.........
My point is, and has always been, they both seriously screwed the pooch in that game.
Some of you contend that one screw-up (could have been two but Jones got one muff back) >> three screw-ups (could have been four as Reed dropped one possible pick). Sorry, but that does not compute.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
...but you're wrong
Lets agree to disagree,
I thimk we can agree that both of us are glad Wade is part of the Texans organization. So that we can have this discussion. Before Wade we weren't afforded this opportunity.
Not going to derail this thread again. So you can have the last word on this topic if you wish.
Everytime I see these words associated with Winston in print, I picture a blackboard and hear some really awful sounds.........
Did you read that link? PFF rated Winston in pass protection as 4th, 3rd and 11th RT in 2009, 2010 and 2011. And he was left on an island, not helped with TEs, RBs or G like Brown. You severely underestimate Winston's contributions.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
We out played them in ints as well. Take away those 3 ints and it's a different ball game
I would argue that Jacoby immediately spotting the Ravens a 7 point lead after our D held them down was far more damaging mentally than Yates 3 picks. I know you and thunderkyss will never agree and I don't really care either, seeing as Jones is gone and Yates is still here. The team knew they were going to have to be a crutch for Yates. I am sure none of them expected their 5 year veteran wideout whom Yates is also suppose to be leaning on as well, would play even worse and dumber than his typical rookie like play. Jacoby Jones mistakes in the playoffs were far more damaging simply because those were mistakes that a veteran like him should NEVER EVER EVER EVER make.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
What was the final score? Did our d do a bad job the rest of the game taking that mental hit? We won't agree because I don't think jones was the main reason we lost but he was certainly part of it. When another player gave up more turnovers and points than jones it baffles me to see how people keep making excuses for why we lost by placing most of the blame on jones. I don't care if Yates was a 12 year old kid that the texans sent out there. The texans sent him out there. At the end of the day Yates had 3 ints which stopped more drives and cost us more points than Jones did. When you tally up things that actually cost the team expectations don't mean anything. Expectations are what you expect to happen but what did happen was Yates turned the ball over more and cost us more points. We lost because of Yates/jones turnovers and missed fg. We didn't lose because of jones or yates
I guess you look at a 17 year old peeing on themselves the same as a 3 month old doing it.
Yes they both pissed their pants at the end of the day, but so what? Youre 17 years old. You shouldn't be doing that (health issues aside).
The fact that Yates was a rookie qb going up against that loaded ravens defense at home in the play offs does give him some grace.
Jacoby jones just made a terribly stupid play.
Are you seriously not understanding why people have come down so hard on jacoby and have given Yates a bit more lee way?
Seriously?
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Your comparison is crap. 17 year old and 3 month old. We are talking about two guys who are professional nfl football players. Further is yates was such a bad choice we would have gone with an alternative. Fact is the texans went with him. You said it yourself Jones made A terribly stupid play and Yates made a handful of them. Blaming jones for the loss is stupid, it was a team loss created by 4 turnovers and missed fgs
drs23
Veteran
Yeah but THREE TIMES the "Leeway"?!?! That's a lot of freakin' "forgiveness". Especially since Yates was sooo "fabulous" just one week earlier against the Bengals. What happened? He forgot to go to film study? He didn't take any notes while holding the clipboard during the first Ravens game?
At the end of the day our expectations should be "No excuses.
No explanations."
As I said, they both had jobs to do and failed.
Neither gets a pass.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
This is where we disagree.
I agree that Jacoby made a terribly stupid play.
But I disagree that TJ made a handful of terribly stupid plays. TJ made some bad plays. 'Terribly Stupid' is much worse than 'bad.' TJ's bad plays are the same bad plays that the Raven's defense makes other QB's make. This is the same Raven's defense that made Andy Dalton throw 3 ints, that made Ben Roethlisberger throw 3 ints, that made Tom Brady throw 2 ints. You can't expect a rookie to not make mistakes against that defense.
As I've said before (and over and over again), TJ made some bad plays. But his plays were nowhere near as egregious as Jacoby's. TJ's play is one of the reasons we lost, no one's saying it isn't. The missed FG didn't help. But the most atrocious mistake made was Jacoby's. He made a bonehead play... as you said, a TERRIBLY STUPID play.
The "blame" for our loss shouldn't be placed at any one person's feet. But more of it goes at Jacoby's than anyone else's.
Premier
Rookie
hey rookie, youre gonna have to be perfect today because our idiot wideout is gonna spot the ravens 7 points with a dumb mistake, not only that, hes gonna get blanketed in man by nickels and #2's, hes also gonna lose yards on returns by running backwards. so, no interceptions today against the #3 defense and future hall of famers..
got it..
got it..
False Start
On # 69
Delete, wrong thread. 
Unsubscribed
Grams
Veteran
In a nutshell - it all boils down to a Ravens team with lots of playoff experience and an excellent defense against a team with a 3rd string rookie QB and only 1 playoff game experience.
With more playoff experience, the Texans could have overcome the fumble on the 2. Jacoby was not the only reason, but a large contributor to the loss.
He needed to go anyways. He cannot run a route and 90% of the time cannot catch the ball thrown to him. Not just in the playoff game, but most of his career as a Texan.
How many of you did not hold your breath on every punt return he fielded all year?
With more playoff experience, the Texans could have overcome the fumble on the 2. Jacoby was not the only reason, but a large contributor to the loss.
He needed to go anyways. He cannot run a route and 90% of the time cannot catch the ball thrown to him. Not just in the playoff game, but most of his career as a Texan.
How many of you did not hold your breath on every punt return he fielded all year?
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
more of the loss goes to Jones? I completly understand how someone who had 67% less turnovers and gave the ravens less points takes most of the blame
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
No one said Yates had to be perfect. He wasnt even mediocre. He sucked it up. Truth is he very easily could have had 5 ints if the ravens didnt just goof a couple. Yates didnt need to be perfect but giving 3 ints and 10 points to the ravens combined with Jones' fumble and 7 was too much to overcome. I swear too many of you let emotions of Jones' sucking it up for years and Yates lovefest get in the way of what happend. 4 Turnovers is too many to overcome. The majority of the blame hits the texans not a player
I consider it more like finally getting rid of a nasty pest problem or a bad, bad nightmare finally coming to a close.
