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Is the "Patriots Way (methods) really that bad?

Is it really that bad?


  • Total voters
    13

SnakeEyes

Rookie
I have been thinking about this since OB was hired seeing he came from NE. And while you do want your own identity. Which we have anyway no matter who is running the FO (Cal and Easterby currently). However, the Patriots have won 6 titles and I lost count of AFC East titles and AFC Championship games and have played for countless more. Stats below.

My point is this: What is wrong with winning? If you have a good owner (jury is out on that one) and a solid staff in the FO and Coaching staff. And you have a good GM and scouting department. Unlike most teams NE just has a system for the draft, FAs and putting players in the position to be better than what they could be in another. As an example (not sure they have done it) a DE converted to a LB or DT. Even though all through the draft that player was listed as a DE. After speaking to the coaching staff and being told something probably like " at DT we can elevate your play to near pro bowl or close... But you have to be willing to do the work and change position". They do as asked, who doesn't want to be elite. They base the draft with a very smart system as the wins show. Select a player who is almost a clone of the one who is going to be replaced. If you have a 6' 190lb CB who runs a 4.5 and is a hard worker with decent range. Thats who you target in the draft. They go further than this by looking at the interviews, combine and other stats. Then rank the players who fit what they want in each round. All 7 of them. Meaning, that they can have per round 5+ players who are near clones of what they want. They then go to the amount of need for the position. If CB is not the top 4 needs, they take one in the 5th. If the top 2 ranked guys are picked before the selection the take the 3rd on the list. While teams have tried to do the same thing...most end up with BPA at a position. And only map out the top 3. NE is doing homework all year on players. And the methods apparently work as they grab a CB in the 5th and he manages to be a good fit and player.

This system has been in place for NE since about 2001. And the numbers I am posting indicate it works. Everyone keeps saying we don't want to be NE South. And if we won as much as they do, using the same basic idea... I'm in. Afterall, NOW Hoodie is searching for a QB and could retire very soon (next year or two). Making us not NE South, but with him retired the only team doing what they did. I understand not wanting to copy. But come on, if we win like they do. Are YOU going to complain? I won't!

Stats of wins and titles:


Since Bill Belichick was hired as the team's head coach in 2000, the Patriots have played their way to first or second in the AFC East every year except Belichick's first season, with both second-place finishes caused by tiebreakers. Over that time, they have won six Super Bowls, nine AFC Championship Games, and sixteen AFC East titles, while amassing a regular season record of 237–82.[4] The team's quarterback over that same period, Tom Brady, has been awarded the NFL Most Valuable Player (MVP)[5][6] three times, and the Super Bowl Most Valuable Player four times; he is one of only five players named Super Bowl MVP more than once, and the only one named 4 times.[7]

The Patriots have played their way to six Super Bowl championships (XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX, XLIX, LI, and LIII). They also played in and lost Super Bowls XX, XXXI, XLII, XLVI, and LII. During the 2007 regular season, the Patriots became the only NFL team in history to win 16 games, and the first since the 1972 Miami Dolphins (in a 14-game season) to complete the regular campaign undefeated.[8] Belichick's Patriots are one of only two teams to win three Super Bowls in four years (the other being the Dallas Cowboys from 1993 to 1996).[9]


I'll happily take that winning percentage and number of titles. Would you?
 

SnakeEyes

Rookie
What is The Patriot Way exactly?

Again, I see nothing wrong with this.

By definition, it is this:

The Belichick definition
From players, staff, coaches

“Look, the way Bill coaches is the ‘Patriot Way’ and for 20 years, they had Tom Brady to embody that philosophy perfectly,” he told Boston.com. “The way that Bill coaches his team to be putting the team first, not selfish, doing what’s best for the team, putting the team’s goals in front of your own personal goals. That was Tom Brady. He was able to do that for 20 years.

“I get players sometimes, they start to lose the concepts of look, ‘We’re the ones out here making the catches and the tackles and all the things that win you the football game,’ but the way Bill coaches the team is the ‘Patriot Way.’
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The problem is expecting to win because you have a Belichick coaches. It goes deeper than that.

We had BO’b, Godsey, & Romeo. All coaches from NE but we never coached or played the Patriot way. We never identified mismatches & took advantage of them. Instead we would feed our star players & dare teams to stop us. Defensively we never took away what the offense wanted to do. Again we focused on players.
 

Mr. White

H-Town Beatdown
To me, the Patriots Way means this:

A guy works somewhere on the Patriots staff. Then he gets hired somewhere else. Usually he brings a pretty big ego with him because he thinks he made a real contribution to the Patriots success.

Then he tries to remake the team in Belichick's image. Then it doesn't work because said guy is not on Belichick's level but he refuses to admit it to himself or his new coworkers. Then he gets fired and goes back to the Patriots.
 

Mr. White

H-Town Beatdown
The problem is expecting to win because you have a Belichick coaches. It goes deeper than that.

We had BO’b, Godsey, & Romeo. All coaches from NE but we never coached or played the Patriot way. We never identified mismatches & took advantage of them. Instead we would feed our star players & dare teams to stop us. Defensively we never took away what the offense wanted to do. Again we focused on players.
I've heard that Bill Belichick has a system, but it's his system. Everyone else just "does their job" and stays in their own lane.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Make sure he is married to a very wealthy model that affords him the luxury of taking a smaller contract while you're at it.
Tom was taking less salary than he could have before he married money. For some, winning > make as much money as you can.

For instance, in 2005:

Deal: 6 years, $60M
Signing Bonus: $26.5M ($14.5 signing bonus, $12M roster bonus in 2006)

This deal, which was slated to take Brady through the 2010 season, got contentious. It was signed on May 4, but the hangup and haggling began in late February. At issue? The Patriots wanted to pay Brady his proposed $24 million signing bonus in four installments. More than half of the bonus money would come in the first two years of the deal, but unpaid bonus money in the later years of the contract would not be guaranteed, meaning if Brady were injured and couldn’t keep playing, portions of the $24 M bonus would never be realized. Writing in March of 2005 for the Providence Journal I noted that, “At this point, the negotiations aren't quite acrimonious. But Brady isn't blind to the fact he's willing to meet the Patriots halfway on salary but is not being met halfway on the bonus.” Peyton Manning at the time was on a seven-year, $98M deal he signed in 2004 that had $34.5M guaranteed.
 

Hookem Horns

Texas Born in Tampa Bay
Staff member
What is The Patriot Way exactly?
Tom Brady comes to your team and you go to the Super Bowl. I’ll be celebrating the “Patriot Way” all weekend, starting in about an hour.

“Patriot Way” floating past my house last night

8E1D5CB6-7765-44DB-A42D-00A54CD1D286.jpeg

“Patriot Way” on my way to the grocery store

80BFE26D-D6D3-4724-BDA1-2A2169BF8619.jpeg

“Patriot Way” at the grocery store

5F4C9A9A-42ED-4741-8239-C1DD896E5F38.jpeg

Brady came here and completely changed the culture. The Bucs were already talented but just had a losing culture. This guy walks into the building and made everyone including his coaches better. I’m a believer now and I was a hater.

We’ll see what Belichick does without Brady, it wasn’t pretty in Cleveland and hasn’t been in New England so far. I definitely wouldn’t be buying into more of his assistants or executives. Their drafting of late hasn’t been great either.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Is the "Patriots Way (methods) really that bad?

Link(s)?
 

KA4Texan

I Hide My Own Easter Eggs
Contributor's Club
Tom was taking less salary than he could have before he married money. For some, winning > make as much money as you can.

For instance, in 2005:

Deal: 6 years, $60M
Signing Bonus: $26.5M ($14.5 signing bonus, $12M roster bonus in 2006)

This deal, which was slated to take Brady through the 2010 season, got contentious. It was signed on May 4, but the hangup and haggling began in late February. At issue? The Patriots wanted to pay Brady his proposed $24 million signing bonus in four installments. More than half of the bonus money would come in the first two years of the deal, but unpaid bonus money in the later years of the contract would not be guaranteed, meaning if Brady were injured and couldn’t keep playing, portions of the $24 M bonus would never be realized. Writing in March of 2005 for the Providence Journal I noted that, “At this point, the negotiations aren't quite acrimonious. But Brady isn't blind to the fact he's willing to meet the Patriots halfway on salary but is not being met halfway on the bonus.” Peyton Manning at the time was on a seven-year, $98M deal he signed in 2004 that had $34.5M guaranteed.
Yeah, cause he still made more than most, so its not like he lived as a popper.

Yes, he took less, but my initial point remains.

He could have taken $2 to the cap hit and would have still had a full stomach and a nice house to go home to.

Im not saying its not cool he took less to help his team.... but IF he grew comfortable with a certain lifestyle, didnt have a wealthy wife to lean on, the higher contracts would start looking really good. Competition or no.
 

SnakeEyes

Rookie
The problem is expecting to win because you have a Belichick coaches. It goes deeper than that.

We had BO’b, Godsey, & Romeo. All coaches from NE but we never coached or played the Patriot way. We never identified mismatches & took advantage of them. Instead we would feed our star players & dare teams to stop us. Defensively we never took away what the offense wanted to do. Again we focused on players.
Bingo! Hoodie goes over tape like it's a drug. He sleeps in the office many times, he has a cot in his office. Then when they put the game plan together, they do what you have said. No other team is going about it that way every single game. The biggest example is the Falcons game. Atlanta took everything the NE was winning with away like RB screens for example. At the half the staff redid the plan. And literally 1 player beat them and his name is not Brady. Edelman wasn't being respected and was getting open. So, they threw it to him. It worked and they won.

They prey on strength being taken from the other team. And making them have to use another strategy. Many will say that every team is doing that. No, they start to. But as soon as something doesn't work for 2-3 plays they switch. They don't "Do their job and stick to the plan" like NE. W/L record shows it works
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
For instance, in 2005:

Deal: 6 years, $60M
Signing Bonus: $26.5M ($14.5 signing bonus, $12M roster bonus in 2006)

This deal, which was slated to take Brady through the 2010 season, got contentious. It was signed on May 4, but the hangup and haggling began in late February. At issue?
You can’t compare him to Peyton in 2005. He’s coming off his 6th round contract & two Super Bowls won by Adam Veneteri.

Believe me, I’m a fan. He’s the GOAT, but he wasn’t even close in 2005.

He wasn’t worth a Manning type deal in 2005.
 

SnakeEyes

Rookie
You can’t compare him to Peyton in 2005. He’s coming off his 6th round contract & two Super Bowls won by Adam Veneteri.

Believe me, I’m a fan. He’s the GOAT, but he wasn’t even close in 2005.

He wasn’t worth a Manning type deal in 2005.
Well in fairness he did guide the team to the Veneteri kicks. Was he the guy who took over a super bowl in the second half and throwing to 1 guy won...no.
 

powda

Let's ride a comet with Jack!
Is there really a Patriots way? All coaches spout off the same team first principles but few execute.

I think its more about matching the best quarterback in the history of the game with the best coach in the history of the game.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
Is there really a Patriots way? All coaches spout off the same team first principles but few execute.

I think its more about matching the best quarterback in the history of the game with the best coach in the history of the game.
How do we know Brady is GOAT without Belicheat? Because he's still at it, back in the SB again.

How do we know Belicheat is GOAT without Tom Brady? We don't. Yet.
 
To me the Patriot way isn’t a player or coach it’s a mindset of win at all cost, rules are a suggestion that can be ignored or changed if pushed hard enough and players are assets and there is no must keep player.

I watched Moneyball again recently and one line stood out to me. That mangers think in terms of buying players when they should think it terms of buying wins.

It’s just like the debates we have had around here recently. Some can’t imagine losing a franchise QB but if you never go any higher in the playoffs or you go 4-12 is having a franchise QB helping you that much? Or talking about Pats haven’t drafted pro bowl players but if those pro bowl players don’t equal wins are they worth having?

I joked when Caserio got the NFL to change the rules so he could interview EB that the Patriot way was alive and well but in some ways it’s not a joke. That’s what I hope Caserio brings with him. No team will have the dynasty of the Patriots but if the Texans had a little more of that killer instinct they could be a serious championship threat.
 

powda

Let's ride a comet with Jack!
You've seen the cancer unfold before you over the last seven years completely collapsing this franchise.

You've seen failures everywhere else.

Yes.

Im not down for the cancer reference but wtf can argue that?
 
You've seen the cancer unfold before you over the last seven years completely collapsing this franchise.

You've seen failures everywhere else.

Yes.
OB did not do anything the way BB does them, just because someone is from someplace doesn’t mean the way they do things is how it was done where they came from. If OB has followed the Patriot way then guys like Merculeus would never have gotten contracts like that and Clowney would have been played into the ground.

I’ve said it before but I think the reason BB has made the GM/HC thing work is because he is a GM first and a HC second. All his moves are designed with making the team as a whole better even if it means sacrificing a player.

It’s honestly why I have some hope for Caserio. He’s not a coach trying to do things the Patriot way he’s a GM doing it which is really what the Patriot way is designed for.
 

TheMatrix31

Hall of Fame
OB did not do anything the way BB does them, just because someone is from someplace doesn’t mean the way they do things is how it was done where they came from. If OB has followed the Patriot way then guys like Merculeus would never have gotten contracts like that and Clowney would have been played into the ground.

I’ve said it before but I think the reason BB has made the GM/HC thing work is because he is a GM first and a HC second. All his moves are designed with making the team as a whole better even if it means sacrificing a player.

It’s honestly why I have some hope for Caserio. He’s not a coach trying to do things the Patriot way he’s a GM doing it which is really what the Patriot way is designed for.
Not sure how much hope I have but I guess hope is all we can have.
 
Not sure how much hope I have but I guess hope is all we can have.
Hey I’ve been called a homer but the way I see it is if someone really thinks the franchise is doomed then why waste time not just watching the games but listening to sports media about the team or even being on this forum. That doesn’t mean everything is roses or even most things going right but it beats always thinking the light at the end of the tunnel is a train
 

SnakeEyes

Rookie
You've seen the cancer unfold before you over the last seven years completely collapsing this franchise.

You've seen failures everywhere else.

Yes.
That's not the Patriots Way idea. That's a guy who the Pat's got rid of. He may be well liked by several foreign players and coaches but they saw through him. Unlike Cal, he died fester and grow in power in NE. This guy is honestly just a crazy man and he is using God as a way to advance in life.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
To me the Patriot way isn’t a player or coach it’s a mindset of win at all cost, rules are a suggestion that can be ignored or changed if pushed hard enough and players are assets and there is no must keep player.
I wouldn’t say they can be ignored. I think Belichick understands the rules are a big part of the game. If you can use one small rule to your benefit, you’re a step ahead of the next guy.

On paper, the rule says one thing. But how they are enforced during the game may be a totally different matter. You have to push those limits if you’re ever going to know what you can & can not do.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
You've seen the cancer unfold before you over the last seven years completely collapsing this franchise.

You've seen failures everywhere else.

Yes.
The last 7 years we saw a guy sell his soul to save his butt. Even with a franchise LT & QB & every draft pick & FA dollar invested in the offense he couldn’t coach a top 16 offense. All the while he let the defense fall into shambles even though that was the only reason he was above.500
 

SnakeEyes

Rookie
I wouldn’t say they can be ignored. I think Belichick understands the rules are a big part of the game. If you can use one small rule to your benefit, you’re a step ahead of the next guy.

On paper, the rule says one thing. But how they are enforced during the game may be a totally different matter. You have to push those limits if you’re ever going to know what you can & can not do.
It's similar to pro cycling (Tour de France stuff) they call it marginal gains. I'm not talking about the drugs to improve the speed or something. I'm talking about the rule that states you have to be "X" distance from a car or you get time added. However, teams and riders have an idea for that. You start with taking a water bottle from the guy in the car. This allows you to basically be pulled along for 10-15sec. Not much time, but it is enough to start catching your breath. Then you swing behind the car for the correct time allotted. Combine, you can get some rest and catch your breath seeing you made 10-15sec into 30sec to 1min... and didn't break a rule. At that level of fitness, that is a long time.

In the NFL things like the "tuck rule" form. Or a WR using his mouth and hunds a bit to get the player covering them to hold or grab them. Bringing pass interference to be called. Many former players have been very open about some rules they bent or broke. If a player is trying to copy another player at times you also have the"star" rule. Which is very simple to understand. The higher profile a player is the less likely they will be called for something the first time they do it. Ask Shannon Sharpe who used every single trick to get an advantage. He only went nuts when they finally had enough of it and called him. Some games it was the first time others it was a full half or more.

Either way, that tiny bit of an edge could lead to points. If a WR can push off and know that it won't be seen. A DB then getting flagged and you go from 3rd and 20 at the 50 to 1st at the 5.
 

SnakeEyes

Rookie
Maybe we can sign Brady for head coach when he retires.
That I would not sure of. He can read any D, devise a system to beat it. But, I don't know if he is going to want to be a coach. Or with his competitive nature would be good or awful. He could bench guys for a bad play. But, I like the basic idea.
 


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