CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Goes right along with what I was talking about in my last post.
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Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?
- Thread starter cland
- Start date
Goes right along with what I was talking about in my last post.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
I remember when Jeff Posey left us at 12:00:01 am on the morning of FA.
Never to be heard from again.
We sure did do a lot whining about it at the time. At least I did.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
He was refering to free agency. Why lose assets when other cornerbacks of equal value are available in free agency?
He has gotten much better. I tend to trust someone with a longer track record. Arron Rogers didnt stay away from anyone in their secondary ,but he would definetly be an upgrade over what we have.
What I find funny about debating over Joseph and Aso is that at the end of the day I don't think it's going to be us choosing.
I think we are going to take whoever will have us.
If the Texans go after Aso and he says yes, we'd have to have some of the dumbest mofos on the planet in charge if they say hmmmm.....Hold that thought, let us gauge what we can do to get Joseph in here...
Whoever says yes first, that's who we take.
We are the beggers. I'm not going to be choosy at this point. I'd be extremely happy with either one of them.
I think we are going to take whoever will have us.
If the Texans go after Aso and he says yes, we'd have to have some of the dumbest mofos on the planet in charge if they say hmmmm.....Hold that thought, let us gauge what we can do to get Joseph in here...
Whoever says yes first, that's who we take.
We are the beggers. I'm not going to be choosy at this point. I'd be extremely happy with either one of them.
Just a vibe that I have.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I think your 100% right ,but time and cap space are both commodities in short supply. "who should get the biggest and most expensive sales pitch, and in what order?" Is probably the better question.
My gut tells me the name of this thread should be, "Is Grimes a better signing then Rodgers?"
As a Texans fan I cant help thinking Aso and Joseph are reflections of a dog with a bone in his mouth...
badboy
Hall of Fame
As I posted somewhere before we sign both Joseph and ASO. WIth cap space under $122m & by dumping contracts of avg players (Okoye) and "Who is that guy" we can sign both. That immediately changes D and we should be ok with Quin and Nolan and other guys at DB. This also makes up for loss of off season OTAs and practice to get younger DBs better.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Dude, i wasn't "rolling my eyes" at your post....that was supposed to be implied what Namdi would do if the texans came at him the way you guys are saying.."Take this...". Relax.
GP
Go Texans!
I'm sure you know this, so this is for those that do not.
Dumping players isn't necessarily always a good thing. Depending on the structure of their contracts, sometimes it is cheaper to keep them.
The main culprit is usually the signing bonus. A big bonus is usually divided by the number of years of a contract. That average is then added to the player's annual salary to come up with his cap number.
If a player has multiple years left on his contract at the time the team releases him (whether by trade or roster cut) then the remaining amount of that bonus will be applied to the cap that year.
So if a player's cap number is $2M salary + $2M bonus with three years left on his contract, he'll cost the team $4M against the cap if he plays. $6M if he is cut.
nero THE zero
All Pro
How is this not the case for any team in the NFL? There are 32 teams and they all have something to offer; including the chance of winning, money, and innumerable intangibles.
The idea that we are some loser organization that has no chance at landing a quality free agent aside from offering above-market cash is flawed and dated. It is something that has been resurrected from the Casserly era because of one disappointing season. People are desperate to revert to that for some reason. But, aside from our one bad season with a historically bad defense, we have been a team with a really good offense with a whole lot of potential.
There's no reason to think a good defensive FA wouldn't think he, along with Wade Phillips, would be enough to convert our bad defense into a nice complement to our already good offense.
GP
Go Texans!
Well, we've NOT been to the AFC Championship game like the Jets have.
Aso doesn't strike me as the type of NFL player who is strictly about the money. He's known as a smart guy, savvy thinker. To him, he's going to choose the place that has the best payoff in both money AND chances at a title.
As much as it means to us Texans fans to have a decent d-coord, I'm not so sure that Aso stakes the latter part of his career upon the Texans turning it around with his help.
If anything, it seems more logical that he'd find a place where the defense is already dominant and he can add the final nail to a coffin. Just going on past history, over the past 2-3 years, I'd say New York Jets fits that bill.
Ravens would be another choice IF the Ravens were inclined to go that route.
I'm 50-50 on this. My longstanding desire was to get the guy here. But I've slowly warmed to the idea of adding one or two other upper-tier CBs, or adding an upper-tier CB and an upper-tier S to the team. Strength in numbers, so to speak.
If we do nothing, then I'm going to burn this board down. You've all been warned. LOL.
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
the more i read about ike taylor, the more i think he will be the guy we get in FA... despite him being a non big name like aso or a young talented guy like joseph & grimes, most experts agree hes the best press man cb after nnamdi.
hes extremely consistent, experienced & is a good tackler, comes from a winning franchise etc. add it all together plus the fact he wont be signed to a monster contract.. it ties in with other recent FA moves i.e. good players that arent big names that generally leave most fans underwhelmed..
i think we should be preparing ourselves for this happening
hes extremely consistent, experienced & is a good tackler, comes from a winning franchise etc. add it all together plus the fact he wont be signed to a monster contract.. it ties in with other recent FA moves i.e. good players that arent big names that generally leave most fans underwhelmed..
i think we should be preparing ourselves for this happening
badboy
Hall of Fame
Agree on all points but stand by my statement that there are player that can be cut or traded for draft picks to allow $ to sign super stat Nnamdi Asomougha. The dead money you refer to has gotten us in trouble before but if you cut a player at the end of his next to last year you should still save money. You must pay the last year bonus but not the salary. I brought this up as some are coincerned about signing a 30 YOA Nnamdi to a long term deal. I'm not.
Being a Texan fan has prepared me for the Texans going after 2nd tier less talented guys in FA. While overpaying for said FA.
Man Smith stinks at his job.
Man Smith stinks at his job.
drs23
Veteran
GP, I'm not so sure the Jets can pull that off. Did a little Google research and found this. They're in "cap hell" right now according to the #'s which someone (CND?) had posted earlier. And they still have several FAs that they want to retain. They would have to gut quite a bit to ink Aso. Same with several other clubs.
Not saying I don't want him in Steel Blue but we're kinda in the same boat as the NY Jets with the cap thingy.
I see alot more return on a Joseph/Weddell inking than snagging Aso. I know that's not a popular stance but sometimes ya gotta do what ain't what everyone else wants to do.
With a "hard floor & ceiling" on the horizon I think Aso's "going where ever he wants to go" is going to run into some fiscal harsh reality
All this is just MHO. We'll see how it shakes out but I'd not be disappointed to end up with Joseph/Weddell/and some ILB help.
(6!) Did I mention I'm gettin' giddy 'cause "I'm ready for some Football"?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I just awakened from a TERRIBLE NIGHTMARE. Good CBs are always in want. Most teams could use a/another good CB, and I believe there will be alot more bidders for the bigger names than what I am feeling is the general perception. With this year's ultra-shortened FA period, if Aso doesn't sign with us, it is not a given that we will haul in ANY of the "lessers," let alone two. If that result comes to be, you can put a fork in it..........and please someone put me back to sleep!...........at least through THIS season!
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
GP, I'm not so sure the Jets can pull that off. Did a little Google research and found this. They're in "cap hell" right now according to the #'s which someone (CND?) had posted earlier. And they still have several FAs that they want to retain. They would have to gut quite a bit to ink Aso. Same with several other clubs.
Not saying I don't want him in Steel Blue but we're kinda in the same boat as the NY Jets with the cap thingy.
I see alot more return on a Joseph/Weddell inking than snagging Aso. I know that's not a popular stance but sometimes ya gotta do what ain't what everyone else wants to do.
With a "hard floor & ceiling" on the horizon I think Aso's "going where ever he wants to go" is going to run into some fiscal harsh reality
All this is just MHO. We'll see how it shakes out but I'd not be disappointed to end up with Joseph/Weddell/and some ILB help.
(6!) Did I mention I'm gettin' giddy 'cause "I'm ready for some Football"?
not disagreeing with you but i dont rly understand how we're so tight to the cap right now... if you look at it we dont have many big contracts or cuts that we're still paying for.. the jets have signed & traded for alot of big names recently
schaub has an average contract for a qb, rbs are below avg contract wise, aj has a decent contract but not huge- the rest of the wrs are cheap, same with od & the te's. winston is the only o-lineman with a somewhat big contract
then on defence, mario, demeco & antonio are the only ones with decent-big contracts. even cush & kareem as first rounders are pretty inexpensive... what am i missing?
badboy
Hall of Fame
Nothing. You are correct.
actually, that isn't an unreasonable scenarioI just awakened from a TERRIBLE NIGHTMARE. Good CBs are always in want. Most teams could use a/another good CB, and I believe there will be alot more bidders for the bigger names than what I am feeling is the general perception. With this year's ultra-shortened FA period, if Aso doesn't sign with us, it is not a given that we will haul in ANY of the "lessers," let alone two. If that result comes to be, you can put a fork in it..........and please someone put me back to sleep!...........at least through THIS season!
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
You might be interested in this recent piece. Although his re-signing by the Steelers is very questionable, they will try.
Signing Taylor looms as Steelers' top priority
Pretty much, except Taylor is a little better in coverage and not quite as good as Dunta in run support.
What bothers me about Taylor is that last time he signed a contract with a big raise his level of play dropped and he got benched by Cowher. (?) That dose of reality made him raise his level of play.
Could you see Gary/Wade doing this? I cant
He would be an upgrade over the current CB's though. Of course any of the tier 1-2 FA CB's would be a massive upgrade over the steaming pile that were the Texans CB's last yr. Great decision to go young at CB last yr Rick. You should be fired for subjecting Texans fans to that steaming pile of crap last yr.
That would be a definitive NO for Joseph over Aso.
drs23
Veteran
As badboy says, you're missing nothing. I made a major assumption mistake by having read several times that the Texans had the 3rd highest payroll in the NFL. We all know what they say about 'assumptions'.
I went here to get a really rough payroll for 2011. If I punched the number correctly I came up with $68,904,000. That doesn't include garanteed money (don't know how much that is but it seems it would raise the total some anyway) but does include salaries for some players that might not be on the team this season. It also doesn't include any rookies since they've yet to be signed.
If this is anywhere near reality I guess the Texans can sign anybody and everybody that they think they might need and not look back.
On top of all of this I was catching up on NFL Access and Albert Breer in his interview states that the cap won't be a "hard cap". Don't remember his exact phrase but something along the lines of a "floating" or "balloon" cap. I've erased it already or I would watch it again to see exactly what he said. Perhaps someone else saw it and can add what was said.
I guess the bottom line is if the FO doesn't pull out all the stops and the checkbook to get us the help we need and some quality backups; then McNair's cheap!
edo783
Hall of Fame
On top of all of this I was catching up on NFL Access and Albert Breer in his interview states that the cap won't be a "hard cap". Don't remember his exact phrase but something along the lines of a "floating" or "balloon" cap. I've erased it already or I would watch it again to see exactly what he said. Perhaps someone else saw it and can add what was said.
Jason LaConfor (sp) said something along those lines also. He said the cap was expected to be about 123 mill, but teams could spend pretty much what they wanted to and made the comment 'the rich just get richer", just had to spend at least 90% of the 123 mill. I'm not sure if that spend "What they want to" thing is just for this year or not.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Last season was an uncapped year & I wonder how the NFL owners did profit wise? texans sure did not go crazy spending money but maybe the free agents werre not as enticing as this year. I am hopeful as others have mentioned that other teams have to let some productive players go. Reminds me a bit of the June first cuts we used to look forward to but maybe more and better players will show on market.
cland
Rookie
That number isn't close to being right, as it doesn't include major items as signing bonuses, incentive terms, etc. This article has us at 118 million and ranks us at 6th most expensive team in the NFL. I don't know exactly how accurate that is, but I believe it's much closer that the 69 million number you posted.
Also La Canfora's latest update says the cap will be 120 million with the addition of a one player 3 million dollar exemption. Link There may be some smaller exceptions, but the league is certainly not allowing a 'soft cap' similar to baseball.
drs23
Veteran
Mr. cland, I thought I was pretty clear that it was really difficult to determine exactly where the Texans stand. I also stated that prior reports had us at the THIRD highest payroll.
Fact of the matter is: No one outside of Reliant actually knows for a fact where the Texans stand as far as the cap goes. You report a 3 mil "exemeption". That sounds more accurate but the report I was listing to I *thought* said 30mil. Granted I was half asleep, with no eyes and only one ear open. It was late.
Granted, even then I thought it didn't make much sense but then, none of this **** has, to me. The 120mil w/3mil exemtion adds up to the 123mil figure that's been tossed around. Granted.
Bottom line is there are web sites out there that say Cush doesn't cost a dime this year as well as many other player which is just pure BS.
Guess we'll hafta wait until we know what's really up before we know what's really up.
I really like my figures better though 'cause then we can get everybody we want!
SteveSlaton20
Rookie
I'd love to get either one, and I'd love to get a good safety also, but if Aso says yes to us, I'd sign him in a second. Aso is probably future HOF player, and you can't miss out on that. JJ is awesome too, but Aso beats him any day even w/o a good safety.
JJdb, JJde, JJsux. That should clear it up for you a bit.The only reason I wouldn't want Jonathan Joseph on our team is because when people type JJ I won't know if they are talking about him, Jacoby or JJ Watt
Disagree with everything here except the part about being a loser organization which isn't debatable because it's a fact.
If FA's are potential dog owners looking at puppies, the Texans are not pick of the litter for most guys. Now that part is JMO.
I don't think we'd be considered the runt, but I don't think they'd look at us and say that the champion bloodline is strong in that one.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
I am very happy. Made my day Texans!!!
Go Texans!!!
Go Texans!!!
Señor Stan
El Guapo
beerlover
Hall of Fame
maybe because Joseph came from the same school as Dunta Robinson but pre-major reconstructive surgery they were very similar players, anybody who thinks a player will ever be as explosive & dynamic after a thing like Dunta experienced is crazy. This was a discussion many times in the past but Dunta in his prime was considered, close to one of the top 5 corners. Same now with Joseph.
the key to this question is addition of Manning because Texans still had enough cap room to sign a starting quality safety. I also feel if Aso really wanted to be a Texan, he would be one today. The two new Texans are excited & happy to be here, we have a new secondary coach named Joseph plus three rookie draft picks to develop in what is now a crowded & talented secondary.
the key to this question is addition of Manning because Texans still had enough cap room to sign a starting quality safety. I also feel if Aso really wanted to be a Texan, he would be one today. The two new Texans are excited & happy to be here, we have a new secondary coach named Joseph plus three rookie draft picks to develop in what is now a crowded & talented secondary.
BIG TORO
TERADACTYL #23
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
No offense but that is whack revisionist history. Only a few people were ever upset Dunta didn't make the pro-bowl and that is 6 corners right there. I don't recall him ever even being named as an alternate. Don't get me wrong, I loved watching him play but he has never sniffed top 5 corner. Aaron Glenn at the tail end of his career was clearly better than Dunta. In his prime it wasn't even close.