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Is Joseph a better signing than Asomugha?

GP said:
It backfired?

Then that means he wasn't doing ALL he could do. It means he tried something radical or deviant from the standard/norm...and it "backfired."

Had he tried to catch the ball, he might have (a) caught the ball, or (b) knocked it away by not catching it.

Once you bat a ball, it's anybody's ball to be had. Catching versus batting are two very different things. I expect a professional football player to try and catch the ball first and foremost, and if he's out of reach...THEN try to deflect it.

Backfired is a good description. Though I wouldn't say it combines well with the phrase "he was doing what he was supposed to on that play." That's where I think our two paths of reasoning diverge.
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Hail mary pass where Glover is jumping amongst a sea of other players, being jostled around etc...

I'd hate to see a defensive back, who likely has unreliable hands, try and catch that ball. There is at least 10x more of a chance that the ball bounces out of his hands, creating an easier opportunity for the Jags to catch in the endzone than what happened.
 
nero THE zero said:
Assuming that extra money goes toward improving another position, I'd rather sign a Jonathan Joseph or Richard Marshall.

I'd certainly rather have Joseph/Marshall + Sidney Rice / Vincent Jackson / Pass rushing OLB than just Asomugha. But, if we are just going to sign one impact player and then sign our own guys and "build through the draft," I'd rather get the best guy out there, and that is obviously Asomugha.
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Exactly! I would rather have marshall and franklin at 16m vs nmandi at 16m and nmandi is one of my favorite players. In fact, I would rather have marshall or joseph at 7, hayneworth ath 4m and julian peterson at 4m vs the 16m for nmandi. The texans need a impact player at every level defensively to become a better defense. They could cut or trade okoye,adibi,and or smith along with some of the other 4-3 players that don't fit or hasn't shown much.
 
GP said:
It backfired?

Then that means he wasn't doing ALL he could do. It means he tried something radical or deviant from the standard/norm...and it "backfired."

Had he tried to catch the ball, he might have (a) caught the ball, or (b) knocked it away by not catching it.

Once you bat a ball, it's anybody's ball to be had. Catching versus batting are two very different things. I expect a professional football player to try and catch the ball first and foremost, and if he's out of reach...THEN try to deflect it.

Backfired is a good description. Though I wouldn't say it combines well with the phrase "he was doing what he was supposed to on that play." That's where I think our two paths of reasoning diverge.
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He actually did what he was supposed to on that play. That's what you're taught on every single level of football starting with flag.

I dont think that he did it well. Your supposed to basically bat the ball directly into the ground. Gq played it like a robot. He just batted the ball. He didn't try to spike it into the ground. Makes no sense to bat the ball down into the crowd. That defeats the purpose. You bat it out of bounds or just away from where the crowd of bodies are.
 
Rey said:
He actually did what he was supposed to on that play. That's what you're taught on every single level of football starting with flag.

I dont think that he did it well. Your supposed to basically bat the ball directly into the ground. Gq played it like a robot. He just batted the ball. He didn't try to spike it into the ground. Makes no sense to bat the ball down into the crowd. That defeats the purpose. You bat it out of bounds or just away from where the crowd of bodies are.
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That play was a microcosm of the Texan's season. Murphy's Law kicked our butt last year.
 
buddyboy said:
Hail mary pass where Glover is jumping amongst a sea of other players, being jostled around etc...

I'd hate to see a defensive back, who likely has unreliable hands, try and catch that ball. There is at least 10x more of a chance that the ball bounces out of his hands, creating an easier opportunity for the Jags to catch in the endzone than what happened.
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That's utter bullshit. Get real.

You and Rey are saying this just to be contradictory about it.

You show me a coach in the history of any level of football who would rather have his player BAT the ball than to put two hands around it and secure it.

Geez. I'm done with this. OK, yeah...you two win: Tipping the ball into the air is better than trying to catch it.

Makes perfect sense.
 
GP said:
That's utter bullshit. Get real.

You and Rey are saying this just to be contradictory about it.

You show me a coach in the history of any level of football who would rather have his player BAT the ball than to put two hands around it and secure it.

Geez. I'm done with this. OK, yeah...you two win: Tipping the ball into the air is better than trying to catch it.

Makes perfect sense.
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Have you ever played football? Hate to break it to you, but every coach I've ever had has taught me to swat it down. We can argue why or why not, but GQ did exactly what coaches at every level preach. Do you honestly think Quin wasn't instructed to swat it down right before the play?
 
GP said:
That's utter bullshit. Get real.

You and Rey are saying this just to be contradictory about it.

You show me a coach in the history of any level of football who would rather have his player BAT the ball than to put two hands around it and secure it.

Geez. I'm done with this. OK, yeah...you two win: Tipping the ball into the air is better than trying to catch it.

Makes perfect sense.
Click to expand...

I know what you are getting at, but, in that situation, swatting the ball ends the quarter and takes the game into overtime.
 
GP said:
That's utter bullshit. Get real.

You and Rey are saying this just to be contradictory about it.

You show me a coach in the history of any level of football who would rather have his player BAT the ball than to put two hands around it and secure it.

Geez. I'm done with this. OK, yeah...you two win: Tipping the ball into the air is better than trying to catch it.

Makes perfect sense.
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I remember plenty of times, where the DB or LB would try to catch the ball only to allow the ball bounce back in the air & the opposing team would catch the ball.

Everyone, including the commentators would stress how it is taught to bat the ball to the ground in that situation. DBs & LBs aren't known to have good hands or ball skills. If they did, they would be on offense.

I agree, Glover did a poor job of swatting the ball to the ground, but that was the right thing to do, that was the right play.

I say that, only to say I don't believe their intentions are to be contradictory.... just old school football.
 
GP said:
It backfired?

Then that means he wasn't doing ALL he could do. It means he tried something radical or deviant from the standard/norm...and it "backfired."

Had he tried to catch the ball, he might have (a) caught the ball, or (b) knocked it away by not catching it.

Once you bat a ball, it's anybody's ball to be had. Catching versus batting are two very different things. I expect a professional football player to try and catch the ball first and foremost, and if he's out of reach...THEN try to deflect it.

Backfired is a good description. Though I wouldn't say it combines well with the phrase "he was doing what he was supposed to on that play." That's where I think our two paths of reasoning diverge.
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What are you taking about? All of us have seen players try to catch balls in the air only to have them bounce off hands, shoulder pads or even helmets into the hands of opponent or player catches and then fumbles. He and others were taught in that situation to knock the ball down. Management supported his decision as what he was supposed to do. If you disagree, blame it on coaching. I remember thinking he would intercept and go into OT. Still, Quin did what he was supposed to do.

I think you are playing games with my choice of "backfired". The goal was to knock ball to ground and out of play. It did not work as he was coached.
 
GP said:
That's utter bullshit. Get real.

You and Rey are saying this just to be contradictory about it.

You show me a coach in the history of any level of football who would rather have his player BAT the ball than to put two hands around it and secure it.

Geez. I'm done with this. OK, yeah...you two win: Tipping the ball into the air is better than trying to catch it.

Makes perfect sense.
Click to expand...

You're right, you're the only sane one among a sea of lunatics.
 
Yes, I've played football. Cornerback.

No, I'd never had a coach say you should bat the ball if you have a chance to catch it first.

I suppose a LB who jumps into the air, timing it as the QB releases the ball, should only bat the ball down? How would they ever get a chance to intercept it? How about D-linemen who also jump up and attempt to catch a QB's pass?

If LBs and DLs can jump up and catch a pass, a CB should be 10-times as more competent to do such a thing.

By you guys' theory, we'd never have an interception because every player would be batting the football to the ground instead of trying to catch it.
 
GP said:
Yes, I've played football. Cornerback.

No, I'd never had a coach say you should bat the ball if you have a chance to catch it first.

I suppose a LB who jumps into the air, timing it as the QB releases the ball, should only bat the ball down? How would they ever get a chance to intercept it? How about D-linemen who also jump up and attempt to catch a QB's pass?

If LBs and DLs can jump up and catch a pass, a CB should be 10-times as more competent to do such a thing.

By you guys' theory, we'd never have an interception because every player would be batting the football to the ground instead of trying to catch it.
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You are missing the point. If it's a last chance, end of the game heave(or any situation where a turnover doesn't matter), you swat. You won't find a coach who tells you otherwise.

I'm sure that Gibbs told every DB on the sideline to swat the ball down right before the play. You can't blame Quin on the decision, just the execution.
 
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GP said:
By you guys' theory, we'd never have an interception because every player would be batting the football to the ground instead of trying to catch it.
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It's a hail mary at the end of the game.

You bat it down.
 
GP said:
Yes, I've played football. Cornerback.

No, I'd never had a coach say you should bat the ball if you have a chance to catch it first.

I suppose a LB who jumps into the air, timing it as the QB releases the ball, should only bat the ball down? How would they ever get a chance to intercept it? How about D-linemen who also jump up and attempt to catch a QB's pass?

If LBs and DLs can jump up and catch a pass, a CB should be 10-times as more competent to do such a thing.

By you guys' theory, we'd never have an interception because every player would be batting the football to the ground instead of trying to catch it.
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You are really showing your ignorance here.

Either you had some bad coaches growing up, or you didn't play football that long and you were probably on some bad teams.

Maybe you were that goofy guy at the end of the depth chart that didn't really pay attention. I dunno.

In end of the game situations you are taught to bat the ball down. On every single level. In fact as you move up levels we'd are even taught to go for the rebound.

Not sure where your theory is coming from but like I said, you're showing your ignorance.
 
Back to the topic, I like Leon Hall better than Joseph (not sure if Hall is available or not). However, I think we can ALL agree that a CB is a must sign during FA if we have one.
 
Texan4Ever said:
Back to the topic, I like Leon Hall better than Joseph (not sure if Hall is available or not).
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Hall is not available.

To me Jospeh is the better target. N.A. will get most of the pub but he's over 30 and hes going to cost truck loads to lure him here. Joseph has a good track record, hes in his prime and will be for a few more years...

Cromartie is a nutcase.

I havent seen Richard Marshall play in a few years and I want no part of signing Ike Taylor...

Grimes is intriguing but to my knowledge hes only had 1 good year.
 
powda said:
Hall is not available.

To me Jospeh is the better target. N.A. will get most of the pub but he's over 30 and hes going to cost truck loads to lure him here. Joseph has a good track record, hes in his prime and will be for a few more years...

Cromartie is a nutcase.

I havent seen Richard Marshall play in a few years and I want no part of signing Ike Taylor...

Grimes is intriguing but to my knowledge hes only had 1 good year.[/QUOTE As Gary said Asomougha is 30 and no history of major injury & plays full seasons. He should be able to play 3-4 years without losing skills although anything can happen. Even after that he could play safety if needed. He is the real deal. The only knock is he plays one side of field. Guess where the #1 WR usually plays? With Nnamdi on one side, you simply put a corner and the FS on the other side.
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I honestly think he should have four or five more years left in him as a number one corner and then he could play free safety after that.
 
powda said:
Hall is not available.
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Why isn't Hall available?

Rick Smith is a GM, not a FA acquisitioner. This team needs help, he should be doing everything in his power to get it.

That includes proposing trades & making **** happen.
powda said:
Grimes is intriguing but to my knowledge hes only had 1 good year.
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Depends on what you call a good year..... his play has been steadily improving & QBs are trying to stay away from him.

He's young & has been getting better year after year.
 
gary said:
Make him an offer and say take it or we are moving on to our next target.
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Yeah, that'll get him here...Namdi is going to have damn near every team in the league courting him.. You think it's any skin off his back that THE TEXANS of all teams are dropping ultimatums on him? He'll be like...:lol:.....:rolleyes:
 
Mr teX said:
Yeah, that'll get him here...Namdi is going to have damn near every team in the league courting him.. You think it's any skin off his back that THE TEXANS of all teams are dropping ultimatums on him? He'll be like...:lol:.....:rolleyes:
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If you make him a out of this world offer he'll sign it.

Atleast that's what the Bears did with Peppers.

He came in the building and Angelo made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

Can Rick pull this off with Aso? Given his track record it's doubtful.
 
Mr teX said:
Yeah, that'll get him here...Namdi is going to have damn near every team in the league courting him.. You think it's any skin off his back that THE TEXANS of all teams are dropping ultimatums on him? He'll be like...:lol:.....:rolleyes:
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He still would not be able to take an offer from Smith to another team only to come back here if he does not receive a better offer.
 
steelbtexan said:
If you make him a out of this world offer he'll sign it.

Atleast that's what the Bears did with Peppers.

He came in the building and Angelo made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

Can Rick pull this off with Aso? Given his track record it's doubtful.
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That's a far more different scenario than saying, "here, take this" like they're saying though...mainly b/c of the presentation.
 
gary said:
He still would not be able to take an offer from Smith to another team only to come back here if he does not receive a better offer.
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In negotiations of this magnitude, you just have to assume that that's what's going on though. I mean lets face it, You as a team should be working on other FA options (Joseph) simultaneously if you already have an idea that Aso's going to be priced out of your range.

All you can really do is set in your head the max you'll want to pay him, offer him something at the median range of that & negotiate up to your max if given the opportunity,...that & hope that some other team doesn't blow everyone out of the water with a ridiculous Dan Snyder-esque offer.
 
Mr teX said:
In negotiations of this magnitude, you just have to assume that that's what's going on though. I mean lets face it, You as a team should be working on other FA options (Joseph) simultaneously if you already have an idea that Aso's going to be priced out of your range.

All you can really do is set in your head the max you'll want to pay him, offer him something at the median range of that & negotiate up to your max if given the opportunity,...that & hope that some other team doesn't blow everyone out of the water with a ridiculous Dan Snyder-esque offer.
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You would still be going after other free agents after telling Asomugha here it is so take or leave it.
 
Mr teX said:
Yeah, that'll get him here...Namdi is going to have damn near every team in the league courting him.. You think it's any skin off his back that THE TEXANS of all teams are dropping ultimatums on him? He'll be like...:lol:.....:rolleyes:
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Well if you read any of the gossip about Nnamdi Asomougha you would know that what you are saying is not correct. Do a google search and see how many are not going to court him. Someone in last two days posted a link that Detroit will not go after him.

As a shutdown corner he wants a defense that fits his skill set and an attacking front seven will meet that. He wants a defensive coordinator that will allow him to play a cover man to man that he excels at rather than a zone or bump & run. He wants vet LBs that love to hit and ours are the epitome of that. On offense he wants a team that can score a lot and move the ball on ground to keep ASO rested & at his best the entire game. We offer a top 8 or better QB, best WR in NFL and last year's best NFL rusher. He also wants a team that has cap space to pay him big bucks.
In my opinion, Dallas, Philadelphia and Texans are his top suitors. I will not roll my eyes at your post.
 
GP said:
It backfired?

Then that means he wasn't doing ALL he could do. It means he tried something radical or deviant from the standard/norm...and it "backfired."

Had he tried to catch the ball, he might have (a) caught the ball, or (b) knocked it away by not catching it.

Once you bat a ball, it's anybody's ball to be had. Catching versus batting are two very different things. I expect a professional football player to try and catch the ball first and foremost, and if he's out of reach...THEN try to deflect it.

Backfired is a good description. Though I wouldn't say it combines well with the phrase "he was doing what he was supposed to on that play." That's where I think our two paths of reasoning diverge.
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Wrong.

He did what every corner back in the league has been taught to do in that situation since they were in grade school.

You do NOT go for the interception because that's the selfish grandstanding play that has the greater chance of backfiring.

What do you do?

You knock the ball down.

Which is exactly what Quin did.

And it backfired. Not because he was doing something radical or different but because... in this one instance... it didn't work and he batted down right into someone's hands on the other team. That's a fluke play.

But that doesn't change the fact that he did exactly what he'd been trained to do and exactly what he should have done.
 
badboy said:
Well if you read any of the gossip about Nnamdi Asomougha you would know that what you are saying is not correct. Do a google search and see how many are not going to court him. Someone in last two days posted a link that Detroit will not go after him.

As a shutdown corner he wants a defense that fits his skill set and an attacking front seven will meet that. He wants a defensive coordinator that will allow him to play a cover man to man that he excels at rather than a zone or bump & run. He wants vet LBs that love to hit and ours are the epitome of that. On offense he wants a team that can score a lot and move the ball on ground to keep ASO rested & at his best the entire game. We offer a top 8 or better QB, best WR in NFL and last year's best NFL rusher. He also wants a team that has cap space to pay him big bucks.
In my opinion, Dallas, Philadelphia and Texans are his top suitors. I will not roll my eyes at your post.
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That is the way some are I just shrug my shoulders and move on.
 
gary said:
That is the way some are I just shrug my shoulders and move on.
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Gary, I try to be more like you but when one poster tries to belittle another, it bothers me, especially when the one rolling his eyes is completely wrong. I have been in some pretty heated posts especially in the old religious threads as you know. I don't recall trying to embarass another.

Anyway, I start a new Bible class tonight and I will pray for me.
 
GP said:
It backfired?

Then that means he wasn't doing ALL he could do. It means he tried something radical or deviant from the standard/norm...and it "backfired."

Had he tried to catch the ball, he might have (a) caught the ball, or (b) knocked it away by not catching it.

Once you bat a ball, it's anybody's ball to be had. Catching versus batting are two very different things. I expect a professional football player to try and catch the ball first and foremost, and if he's out of reach...THEN try to deflect it.

Backfired is a good description. Though I wouldn't say it combines well with the phrase "he was doing what he was supposed to on that play." That's where I think our two paths of reasoning diverge.
Click to expand...

Have you played as a defensive back? Or in football?

In hail mary situations, the correct play is to BAT THE BALL TO THE GROUND: which is what he did.

If you try to catch it, you are being selfish and risking knocking the ball UP to be caught.

Every coach I know tells their defensive backs to knock the ball down in the following situations:
1) Hail Mary
2) 4th Down
3) Last play of half/ game / etc.

Don't be so results oriented. Think about the person who says 'OH MAN I TOTALLY SHOULD HAVE PUT MY LIFE SAVINGS ON 00' when he passes a roulette table and it lands on 00? Then thinks about "all that money helost", since he didn't multiply his life savings by 30?

The correct decision in that analogy is to NOT put your life savings on 00, since it is a negative expected value decision, just like the correct decision on the last play of the game is to bat the ball down. Now, will **** happen? Yes. The roulette ball could actually land on 00, or you could accidentally bat the ball down into a receiver's hands. **** happens. That doesn't change what the correct decision would be.
 
gary said:
You would still be going after other free agents after telling Asomugha here it is so take or leave it.
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They better be doing this. If Aso does not take the offer right off the bat (VERY LIKELY), the Texans will only have approximately a 3-4 day window to wrap up one of the other CBs.:cool:
 
badboy said:
Gary, I try to be more like you but when one poster tries to belittle another, it bothers me, especially when the one rolling his eyes is completely wrong. I have been in some pretty heated posts especially in the old religious threads as you know. I don't recall trying to embarass another.

Anyway, I start a new Bible class tonight and I will pray for me.
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I'd pray for you and some others.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
They better be doing this. If Aso does not take the offer right off the bat (VERY LIKELY), the Texans will only have approximately a 3-4 day window to wrap up one of the other CBs.:cool:
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The short signing period should make for a very interesting dynamic on both sides. If Aso fails to choose a team quickly and they sign other FA's, he might lose a bit of his leverage in negotiations. This is very much a double-edged sword.
 
ensign_lee said:
Have you played as a defensive back? Or in football?

In hail mary situations, the correct play is to BAT THE BALL TO THE GROUND: which is what he did.

If you try to catch it, you are being selfish and risking knocking the ball UP to be caught.

Every coach I know tells their defensive backs to knock the ball down in the following situations:
1) Hail Mary
2) 4th Down
3) Last play of half/ game / etc.

Don't be so results oriented. Think about the person who says 'OH MAN I TOTALLY SHOULD HAVE PUT MY LIFE SAVINGS ON 00' when he passes a roulette table and it lands on 00? Then thinks about "all that money helost", since he didn't multiply his life savings by 30?

The correct decision in that analogy is to NOT put your life savings on 00, since it is a negative expected value decision, just like the correct decision on the last play of the game is to bat the ball down. Now, will **** happen? Yes. The roulette ball could actually land on 00, or you could accidentally bat the ball down into a receiver's hands. **** happens. That doesn't change what the correct decision would be.
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I've stated that I played CB before.

I was always told to try and secure the football.

You'd rather BAT the ball and chance a bad deflection, instead of placing your hands and all 10 fingers around the ball?

The chances are better that you mis-judge how to bat the ball (angle of the ball as it descends, the spin on it, the velocity on it, the WR and how he might be adjusting to the ball, etc.). I'd rather lose by having tried to catch the ball and end the game right there, than to tip the ball and have little control of where I'm actually batting it.

Let's keep doing this for another week. See if we can convert each other.
 
Mr teX said:
In negotiations of this magnitude, you just have to assume that that's what's going on though. I mean lets face it, You as a team should be working on other FA options (Joseph) simultaneously if you already have an idea that Aso's going to be priced out of your range.

All you can really do is set in your head the max you'll want to pay him, offer him something at the median range of that & negotiate up to your max if given the opportunity,...that & hope that some other team doesn't blow everyone out of the water with a ridiculous Dan Snyder-esque offer.
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& That's exactly what the Texans have not done. How many DEs have we had work out with us before we signed Smith?

How many CBs came through when we "pursued" Bodden?

The Texans are likely to make a pitch to Nnamdi & give him "a week to think it over, take your time, we don't want to rush you. We want to make sure you make a decision that's good for you."

Screw that, we need to put the pressure on. "**** or get off the pot. I've got three guys that I'll settle for coming through that door in the next 18 hours. What's your answer?"

& it's not that we think Aso is priced out of our range. It's that I think he has no intention of signing with us, he'll use the Texans like the others we've "pursued" to leverage his bargaining position.
 
John Clayton was on SC talking about free agency. Said he expected Nnamdi to reach a deal with a team within 4-5 hours of free agency. It's possible, I remember Haynesworth signing a deal basically at midnight when FA began.
 
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