dream_team
Hall of Fame
If that's why he was brought in...
- He's not doing a good job at that.
- He should have brought in an offensive guru to run the offense, NOT Tim Kelly.
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Is It time to fire David Culley after 1 year?
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
- Status
If that's why he was brought in...
They retained Kelly because Watson told them he liked working with Kelly (he could throw downfield at whim) and by the time he met with Culley it was too late to get anyone else
It wasn't a mistake, it's part of the plan. I expect Culley to be back next season. However looking at the stands today, I very well could be wrong.
KoolAid Sipper
AFCEVET
There are always exceptions.
The Colts let Andrew Luck keep $24.8M
Andrew Luck, Colts reach settlement after shocking retirement, might have lost out on $500 million
The Colts could have made Andrew Luck write a huge check
www.google.com
Culley is on record that he liked what Kelly did last year in the passing game. They blocked Kelly from interviewing with other teams and even though it might have been too late to hire another OC, there was nothing preventing the Texans from hiring an experienced associate/assistant HC for the offense and to mentor Kelly. Lovie's title is Associate HC/DC. There should be an experienced offensive coach with a similar title on offense.
In 2001, Sean Payton was the OC of the Giants and their HC (Jim Fassel) stripped him of play calling duties. Teams fire OCs during the season. They take away play calling duties. Culley has stood on the sidelines chewing his gum. From a scheme or play calling perspective, I've not seen anything he or his staff have done to improve this terrible offense.
At least he didn't suspend any player on the offense.
So you're buying the Culley who's been an offensive coach all of his life said, hey man, I'm kinda liking this BOB offense let's run it. Get to work Kelly and bring me up to speed. I'm not buying this.
I don't find it odd that Culley would keep the BOB offense. To my knowledge, besides wanting a strong run game, Culley has never indicated or stated the type of offense he would like to run. This could simply be a case of Culley thinking for continuity sake, keeping the BOB/TK offense and then implementing some of the concepts from his previous stops or specific plays for Taylor into the offense.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
There are always exceptions.
The Colts let Andrew Luck keep $24.8M
Andrew Luck, Colts reach settlement after shocking retirement, might have lost out on $500 million
The Colts could have made Andrew Luck write a huge check
Strategic move by colts to keep the lights on for Luck if he decided to return to football after all his injuries inflicted by the Colts failing to protect him.
Plus, they
1. didn’t want the PR nightmare that the lions had when they recouped money from Barry Sanders
2. didn’t want the PR nightmare that the lions had when they recouped money from Calvin Johnson
Of course he liked it... with Watson as the QB
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
He wasn't, people just like to post that because he's black. If they really wanted to keep Watson or appease him, they would've been true to at least communicate about the gm and coach hire. Even if they weren't going hire a particular guy. Anyone but a 65 yr old position coach would've probably worked. Hell, if it had been Lovie Smith he would've probably been game.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
By the Time they hired Culley Watson was already not taking their phone calls.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
If The Texans brought in Culley with the expectation that he'd be a place holder while rebuilding I don't get that.
How are you going to know who is really worth keeping when you decide you want to win again?
I'm not buying that he was just brought in as a rebuilding figure head. Good coaches can start to win and get things going in a positive direction before they have all the pieces in place. Some guys don't even need top tier qbs and can muck through until they get THAT guy.
Good coaches can go through the rebuild AND be a part of the teams eventual success.
So Im proposing another reason the Texans hired him:
They actually believed he'd make a good coach.
I believe this is the case.
This makes the most sense to me because it fits with the kind of decisions they make.
Hiring Culley for any reason other than they thought he was best available is giving them too much credit I think.
How are you going to know who is really worth keeping when you decide you want to win again?
I'm not buying that he was just brought in as a rebuilding figure head. Good coaches can start to win and get things going in a positive direction before they have all the pieces in place. Some guys don't even need top tier qbs and can muck through until they get THAT guy.
Good coaches can go through the rebuild AND be a part of the teams eventual success.
So Im proposing another reason the Texans hired him:
They actually believed he'd make a good coach.
I believe this is the case.
This makes the most sense to me because it fits with the kind of decisions they make.
Hiring Culley for any reason other than they thought he was best available is giving them too much credit I think.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Look at you making assumptions about people thinking it’s a race thing. Actually for many the connection is that Culley was Watson’s coach during the pro bowl and all reports said the two got along really well. If Texans were just looking for a black coach they could have been the toast of the media and hired EB.
Also again by the time they hired the coach Watson was already not taking calls and saying it didn’t matter who they hired and as far as consulting him on the GM hire there is nothing in Watson’s entire history that qualifies him to have any input on what makes a good GM so consulting him on that is the same as consulting any player.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I agree with this, if they were just looking for a scape goat, rebuild coach why take so long? Just hire the first guy you interview and be done with it. I think a really large factor is that Culley seems to be highly respected within the NFL with almost all players and coaches giving him rave reviews. Plus Culley is the exact opposite of OB in both style of coaching and attitude. So if they are looking to change how they are viewed that’s a start.
I don’t know if Culley is or even can be a good coach but I know I’m not ready to say he’s a bad one in his first year with a team that it’s best players hold be back ups on any other team coming out of a draft where the Texans didn’t even have a pick till the third round and the OC is a hold over from the previous regime and was a first time OC last year as well.
I mean give him at least a couple of years to get some talent before we start up the mob calling for his head.
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maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I think they are waiting for the off season and maybe after the draft. Right now no decent OC would touch this team with how little there is to work with, it would be career suicide. They got Lovie because he was desperate to get back in the NFL.
Culley apparently lets his OC and DC have a lot of freedom and that could be appealing for an OC. If Caserio can nail the draft to show that there is something to work with then they MIGHT could lure a real OC over.
Right now though we are stuck in a war with the army we have.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
This! ^^^ I'm getting tired of the mantra that Culley was hired to make Watson happy. There's no evidence of that. And TBH, just sounds dumb.
Now if the hire was Bienemy or Saleh, then I may have bought it.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I want to see something. It may be something small, but Culley has to show me something that makes him a good coach. So far, I don't see it.
- The offense is putrid.
- No offensive player is playing better than expected.
- His game planning is nothing special.
- His game management has looked pretty bad. (he's the first coach I've ever seen decline 3rd & 10 to take 4th & 2)
- He delegates the X's & O's to Tim Kelly
- And what good are these healthy inactives doing?
For example, I see something with Lovie being a good DC. He's taken a bunch of rejects and made them look like they belong.
As a coach, you don't have to be good at everything... but you have to be good at something. With Culley, it's hard for me to identify what exactly he's good at.
That would be Pep Hamilton. May not have the title, but you just described Pep Hamilton.
I had the whole thing in my mind that Kelly was kept to appease Watson. When they finally figured Watson wasn’t down I figured Kelly would be on a short leash. I didn’t expect to see him past the bye week.
I figured Pep was the real OC & Kelly would get axed.
I’m guessing Kelly impressed them somehow, but this offense stinks of too many cooks in the kitchen.
Remember the Ravens with Flacco without Ray Rice? Was Harbaugh a bad HC?
Culley isn’t running the offense. The guy he is coaching isn’t getting it done.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
We are the worst offense in the NFL, one of the worst I have seen in a while, and I could not even watch after a while. 150 to 175 yards / game?? We may lack talent, but as Lovie shows, good coaching can make you look competent, and the defense would be better if not on the field all game. Culley has to grow a pair and make serious changes. You cannot even evaluate guys right now as bad as this is. Hell, forfeit the next game while you put in a real offense, just do something to keep us engaged. I just recorded the game, then deleted it after watching about 1.5 quarters.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
You just ruined the lives of all those poor electrons.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
I reused those poor electrons on Yellowstone, and they were quite happy
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
The talent on offense has given the Texans a few favorable quarters this season but the biggest difference between the two sides of the ball…..the defense doesn’t have Kelly calling the game. Until Kelly is shown the door and the Texans find a way of adding a proper OC, real OL and RB talent, this shite is just going to continue.
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Nope. I intentionally did not mention Pep Hamilton. Do you know Tim Kelly has as much experience as an NFL OC and play caller as Pep Hamilton? TWO years!
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
So Culley is the only person in the organization who can evaluate talent?
They hired Culley to be their positive spinning yes man while they go through this rebuild. Plain and simple.
They were the 1st team of 6 or 7, don’t even remember now, who had a HC vacancy, and they were the last team to fill the position. And when they do fill it it’s a guy who has never been on anybody’s radar EVER.
David Culley is a HC because he’s a guy who can, and is willing, to take the heat of what it is team Caserio is doing and that’s it. Stand at the podium, say this, tell everyone how hard you’re working and how you’re going to fix the mistakes and play better, spin the positive vibes, cash your big check. No other reason he’s here in this capacity.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I get it but you are still thinking in terms of OB where he was the be all, end all of the offense and any OC he had was just to be a puppet. Culley isn't there to call plays he is there to be the overall manager and to guide the team as a whole. So what you consider a bad thing "He delegates the X's & O's to Tim Kelly" is actually his exact plan and coaching style, you may disagree with it and thats fine but personally after 6 years of watching a HC try and be OC as well, and then later everything else except DC, I kind of like the idea of a HC that is just focused on being the HC.
I agree his game management does need work but so far I haven't seen any more mistakes than I would expect from a first time HC in his first year. At least he is willing to admit when he made a mistake and own up to it, more than we've gotten before. Finally you keep comparing him to Lovie but you are forgetting that Lovie is a proven DC that once took the Rams from high 20s in defense to number 2 in defense in one off season. He's a proven, vet DC who hit his Peter mark and was a bad HC. Now he's back to his level and he is shining which I expected.
Honestly Dream I'm not sure what you were expecting. You have a first time HC with an OC in his second year that was "trained" by a HC that ran a terrible offense and just used his OC as a mouth piece all trying to lead a team made up of backups, has beens and never was. You can't make chicken salad when the chicken keeps squatting over the bowl. You want to see something ok then consider this, Texans are having their worst season overall since the teams first couple of years with everything stacked against them yet you are not seeing coaches or players blow up at fans or the media, you aren't getting reports about how much players hate the team and want to leave nor how toxic everything is. I mean no one is happy but for a team that is 2-10 no one should be happy but at least to me its the unhappiness of being a losing team, before you got the sense even when they were winning they were still unhappy.
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maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I don't recall anyone saying Culley was hired to make Watson happy, people have said that Kelly was kept to make Watson happy but for Culley no one has said that. Most on here say Culley was hired to A: be a rebuild coach and a scape goat, B: he was brought in to be a 'feel good" coach and to be the complete opposite of OB or C: that the Texans actually see something in him and think he could be a good HC.
SteelB has mentioned on multiple occasions that Culley was hired to appease Watson. I don't know his source but he has mentioned it at least a dozen times.
Week 12 vs. Jets
The opening line has the Texans as a 3-pt favorite. Granted, the home team is given 3 point; it still marks the first time the Texans aren't considered a dog.
www.texanstalk.com
Who's worth keeping on a multi-year deal on this Texans roster?
The same AJ that back a Sexual Predator in the Sexual Predators desire to get traded? And I'm not saying AJ was all wrong. But he, like alot of posters on here backed the wrong horse. Culley is and always was a placeholder. The next HC will truly be Caserio's 1st HC hire. I thought Culley would...
www.texanstalk.com
Proper Rebuild
Since when? Did Kubiak and Obrien hire their own staff? Know why McVeigh is in LA vs Dallas? Any coach worth his salt wants to bring in his staff. The gm is suppose to get players that fit the coaches scheme and vision. Even when Harbaugh went to Ravens as a special teams coordinator, he chose...
www.texanstalk.com
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
So again what @steelbtexan says is taken as what multiple people are saying and what is the general thought of the board is? I didn't recall him saying that but again he is one person, both @leebigeztx and @dream_team made it sound like it was a common thought on the board and from what I've read its not.
Kubiak was also his own OC for most of his time on Kirby. I don't think they're running the same offense as BOB did and to blame the current state of the offense on BOB is intellectually lazy. If you want to say BOB screwed this franchise by drafting Howard/ Scharping and going all in on a Pervert then I can get on board with this.
How long and how many years before BOB doesn't get blame for what's wrong with this franchise. You want to know what is truly wrong with this franchise? One word, McNair's.
Yes, I've said this multiple times as well as hiring a 65 yr old coach meant that coach was a placeholder. I fully stand by this thought. Just another way Derrick has screwed this franchise over.
And lack of talent on the ol.
Norg
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Texian
Hall of Fame
That would just be replacing ineptitude with more ineptitude. It is the only thing the Kirby Boardroom knows how to do. And they do it well!
My question is at what point will Game Boy realize he is responsible for putting together the worst organization in the NFL.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Please show me where I said the current offense is OB fault although since you brought it up it is to an extent because many of the issues the team are dealing with were left overs from his time as GM and HC. However in the post you quoted my point was that not every coach calls either one side or the other and some just hire the best OC and DC they can and then they focus on the overall picture. We can debate whether that is a good approach or not but my example of OB was just his different style of coaching. If you would prefer a different example then BB hasn't paid much attention to the offense side of the ball since Brady won his 2nd SB.
Edit: Also Ob didn't draft Howard, Gaines did and honestly if he could have been or still could be a long term solution at RT it was a good draft at 23. Though its looking more and more like thats not going to happen.
It's a commonly held belief on this board.
It doesn't make sense as most believe there were other candidates that would have been more appealing to Watson. So we don't harp on it as much as some. But many of us believe Caserio thought Culley would appeal to Watson.
My thing is that for some everything always comes back to BOB. (Not you) Yes BOBs at fault for letting Gaine/Devlin pick Howard and the overall lack of talent on the team. BOBs not responsible for the current state of the offense, no matter what some are pushing as the narrative around these parts.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Agree to disagree. I think the defense is outperforming their talent level. They are 8th in the league in defensive DVOA. That's quite impressive with these group of guys.
You're right.
Nick Caserio is responsible for the current state of the offense.
FIFY
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
As far as that’s concerned, it appears turnovers play way too much of a factor with that metric, because that’s really the only thing they are outstanding at.
They don’t have much of a pass rush, they can’t stop the run, and they give up a lot of big plays.
They might be playing right at the level of their talent but the turnovers make it look a whole lot better.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Funny thing is, a lot of the luster has come off a few of those more coveted guys since then. Meyer been a big flop in Jax so far.... The jets still look like...... the Jets with Saleh & there have been grumblings up there about how he hasn't exactly distinguished himself. Everyone has seemingly figured out how to slow Mahomes & KC's offense this year so they don't look as good as years past. Like Matt Nagy, it's Just a matter of time before someone brings Bienemy in only to find out he's not the offensive guru they think he is without the Mahomes level talent. Joe Brady just got fired by Carolina for shitty offense.
Daboll, McDaniels and Eberflus are the only guys from last year that are somewhat holding firm............but 2 of those guys hail from the Belichick tree so alot of folks here will be against bringing in either of them off the strength of that alone.............hell, even in the college ranks everyone's favorite college offensive guru just took the USC gig so he won't be available.
So no, he deserves at least 1 more year for at a minimum having the balls to take on this shitstorm of a situation & roster when other more coveted & supposedly better guys were too shook to try.
Daboll, McDaniels and Eberflus are the only guys from last year that are somewhat holding firm............but 2 of those guys hail from the Belichick tree so alot of folks here will be against bringing in either of them off the strength of that alone.............hell, even in the college ranks everyone's favorite college offensive guru just took the USC gig so he won't be available.
So no, he deserves at least 1 more year for at a minimum having the balls to take on this shitstorm of a situation & roster when other more coveted & supposedly better guys were too shook to try.
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maverick512000
Hall of Fame
It splitting hairs a bit but appeal is different that "Hired because X wanted them" I do think it might have played some factor and said as much when I talked about reports saying Culley and Watson got along well but I actually agree with @xtruroyaltyx that on at least some level the Texans thought Culley might could be a good coach. He had the resume for it and an argument could be made there were other factors to him not being a HC before.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Which to be fair is in keeping with Lovie's mentality of every tackle being considered and opportunity for a turn over.
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