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Is it time to discuss OB the GM yet?

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Care to share how he isn't a competent HC? I mean he went 11-5 last yr and has them sitting at 6-3 this yr against a very tough schedule. That's not an incompetent HC.
I hate BO'b.

But the other day I got to thinking, objectively who would I rank as a better HC.

Of course there's Belichick, in a class by himself.

Then Carroll. Then Harbaugh.

Then every other coach falls into a pile of eh... a bunch of them I may prefer to BO'b, but I wouldn't say are objectively better.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Care to share how he isn't a competent HC? I mean he went 11-5 last yr and has them sitting at 6-3 this yr against a very tough schedule. That's not an incompetent HC.
So give him the Marty Schottenheimer Award: solid in the regular season but total garbage in the postseason. Marty is 5-13 in the playoffs, Bill is 1-3 . Do you forget the game vs. Indy in January of this year? The Texans were outcoached and outplayed. They did not even look like they belonged in the playoffs.

As far as GM, honestly too early to tell.

But, for fun, some early grades:

If Tunsil is not signed - which I assume he will be a priority - then it's a solid F for trading off premium draft capital. Not securing an extension before the deal gives him a C+. That reeked of desperation and inexperience. No worthy GM would have been so naive.

I do like Hyde and Johnson, as well as Stills. All three are contributing players. I'll give him a A for the RBs, but Stills is the same as Tunsil, not signed long term, so C+.

He gets a solid F for the Clowney debacle. That was just pathetic and we still do not know the logic (or lack of) behind the deal.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
For those of you who are poker players, I liken it to getting lucky on the river card. O'Brien has made some bad decisions. Just because he might get lucky and hit his one-shot river card (i.e., making a deep playoff run) doesn't make it a good decision. I cut him some slack because football is not like poker in many ways. But in some ways, it absolutely is. And when O'Brien sits down at the trade table with another GM, he's absolutely the guppy at the table.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
So give him the Marty Schottenheimer Award: solid in the regular season but total garbage in the postseason. Marty is 5-13 in the playoffs, Bill is 1-3 . Do you forget the game vs. Indy in January of this year? The Texans were outcoached and outplayed. They did not even look like they belonged in the playoffs.

As far as GM, honestly too early to tell.

But, for fun, some early grades:

If Tunsil is not signed - which I assume he will be a priority - then it's a solid F for trading off premium draft capital. Not securing an extension before the deal gives him a C+. That reeked of desperation and inexperience. No worthy GM would have been so naive.

I do like Hyde and Johnson, as well as Stills. All three are contributing players. I'll give him a A for the RBs, but Stills is the same as Tunsil, not signed long term, so C+.

He gets a solid F for the Clowney debacle. That was just pathetic and we still do not know the logic (or lack of) behind the deal.
Schottenheimer would be a good comparison with room to grow. Was Schottenheimer a below avg HC nope, neither is BOB. Thing is now that BOB is fully in charge I think you can say that the team has more depth than it has ever had and that lack of depth plus Watson playing in his 1st NFL playoff game and BOB doing a subpar job were all contributors to the Colts playoff loss. In short really though, the more talented team won as is the case in most games. Plus I can see growth in BOB this yr, he changed the offense to fit Watson's skillset so maybe he's not as inflexable as some here make him out to be. I'm just happy we finally know who's calling the shots and like the direction of the franchise.


Grade Scale.

Tunsil/Stills trade- They will get Tunsil re-signed and Stills is here for atleast 1 more yr. It accomplished what they wanted, Watson to be protected/Stills to be there when WFV went down again. Grade- A-

RB's- Hyde- A Duke C due to giving up a 3rd which was a slight overpay.

CB's- Conley- So far looks like an A but right now I would give it an incomplete. If Conley continues to produce like he has then I think giving up a 3rd for him is a steal. Under rookie contract for 2 more yrs after this one too.

Clowney- F, This was handled all wrong from the beginning even before BOB became GM. With that said I understand why BOB went ahead and made the trade. I guess this depends on what you think of his knee.

Right now the Conley for Clowney trade has potential to be a win. Honestly I dont think the defense has missed Clowney all that much, look at the Seahawks defense how much better are they with Clowney and to think he wanted Mack/Donald $$$$. LMAO I liked Clowney alot and think he's an above avg but not a great player certainly not worth what he thinks he's worth.
 

mws

Waterboy
I hate BO'b.

But the other day I got to thinking, objectively who would I rank as a better HC.

Of course there's Belichick, in a class by himself.

Then Carroll. Then Harbaugh.

Then every other coach falls into a pile of eh... a bunch of them I may prefer to BO'b, but I wouldn't say are objectively better.
This is a list of all current NFL head coaches with 5 or more years as a head coach. Everybody on the list except Jason Garrett & Bill O'Brian has at least been to one championship game.

Bill Belichick - 268/123/0 .685 - 9 Super Bowl Appearances, 6 Superbowl Wins - Edited Super Bowl Appearances.
Mike Tomlin - 127/70/1 .644 - 2 Super Bowl Appearances, 1 Superbowl Win, 1 AFC Championship Loss
Sean Payton - 123/75/0 .621 - 1 Super Bowl Win, 2 NFC Championship Losses
Andy Reid - 199/126/1 .612 - With Eagles: 1 Superbowl Loss, 4 NFC Championship Losses - With Chiefs: 1 AFC Championship Loss
Mike Zimmer - 51/34/1 .599 - 1 NFC Championship Loss
Bruce Arians - 51/34/1 .599 - 1 NFC Championship Loss
Pete Carroll - 126/86/1 .594 - 2 Super Bowl Appearances, 1 Superbowl Win
John Harbaugh - 108/74/0 .593 - 1 Super Bowl Win, 1 AFC Championship Loss
Ron Rivera - 75/58/1 .563 - 1 Superbowl Loss
Jason Garrett - 80/62/0 .563 - 2 Playoff Wins
Bill O'Brien - 46/40/0 .535 - 1 Playoff Win
Jon Gruden - 101/95/0 .515 - With Raiders 2000: 1 AFC Championship Loss - With Buccaneers: 1 Super Bowl Win
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I hate BO'b.

But the other day I got to thinking, objectively who would I rank as a better HC.

Of course there's Belichick, in a class by himself.

Then Carroll. Then Harbaugh.

Then every other coach falls into a pile of eh... a bunch of them I may prefer to BO'b, but I wouldn't say are objectively better.
This is my point, and now that BOB's in charge hopefully he continues to grow as a HC, like changing the offense in mid season. He still needs somebody to help him with TO's/Challenges.

Why do you hate him?
 
My only true complaint with the Tunsil trade after watching him play is that they didn't extend him immediately. Yes, giving up 2 first round picks in one trade sucks but he has been a stabilizing force on the left side of the line. I forgot how nice it is to not have to worry about our franchise QB getting blown up every other passing play on his blindside. Hopefully they get an extension done in the offseason.

As for some of the other trades, yeah, some have been an overpay. I wish they had gotten a lot more in the Clowney trade or not traded him at all. Conley and Johnson were probably overpays too but they've both come up with some clutch plays since they got here so at least they're performing despite the high price-tag.

All that being said, he gets to the AFC Championship game and I will have no complaints over the trades. All that draft capital given up, please get to the AFC title game because anything can happen at that point. And please, for the love of all that is good, keep playing aggressive and let Deshaun carry you to wins. Play to win, not "play not to lose".
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
His incompetence is on display virtually every week. Slow starts, poor game planning, poor clock management, inability to scheme to his player's skill sets. 11-5 last year and 6-3 this year thanks to DW4 being the stud he is. If you looked at OB through the same lens you did for all those Rick Smith and Bob McNair years, it would be obvious to you.
I look at W/L's and the fact that BOB's working with a very young QB. Whether you want to admit it or not the offense has made great strides this season despite having to do this on the fly. They are putting points on the board and have made great improvement in the RZ.

This is the 1st yr BOB has been fully in charge and I like the direction of the franchise. I will give you things that BOB needs to improve on are TO's/Challenges and cutting down on penalties. That's what's killed the opening drives of games so far, not playcalling.

I looked at RS as a guy that couldn't build a roster that had depth to save his life. This roster has had depth enough to survive injuries to the OL/WR's/CB's and I will bet you that they survive Watt's injury. Surely you can see the difference in the org and the way they are operating, about time.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
My expectations were that after 3 years in the system then he would at least know the playbook and not look dazed and confused. Also saying he "helped the team get into the playoffs" is making his contributions sound greater than they were. He relieved Osweiler after the Jags had fully game planned and had Osweiler's number and even then it was 21-20 with him only completing 23 of 36 passes for 260 yards even though he was throwing to Hopkins. Next game he barely beat a helpless Bengals team and went 18 of 29 for 176 yards.

Fast forward to 2017 season and he doesn't even make it through the first game before being benched because he is getting killed out there. Then Watson goes down and its all downhill from there. If all that doesn't equal bust in your book then I don't know what does. Again I don't blame Savage for any of this, I blame BoB for either not helping him progress or not seeing that he couldn't even cut it as a backup QB.

Want further proof? Since being cut by the Texans Savage has signed and been cut within the same year by 4 different teams. They didn't need 3 years to see it, hell 49ers didn't even need 3 weeks, so why did BoB?
Helped come in and get the team a W that's the definition of a backup QB and better than most 4th rd QB picks do. BTW, he knew the playbook but wilted under pressure.
 
My only true complaint with the Tunsil trade after watching him play is that they didn't extend him immediately. Yes, giving up 2 first round picks in one trade sucks but he has been a stabilizing force on the left side of the line. I forgot how nice it is to not have to worry about our franchise QB getting blown up every other passing play on his blindside. Hopefully they get an extension done in the offseason.

As for some of the other trades, yeah, some have been an overpay. I wish they had gotten a lot more in the Clowney trade or not traded him at all. Conley and Johnson were probably overpays too but they've both come up with some clutch plays since they got here so at least they're performing despite the high price-tag.

All that being said, he gets to the AFC Championship game and I will have no complaints over the trades. All that draft capital given up, please get to the AFC title game because anything can happen at that point. And please, for the love of all that is good, keep playing aggressive and let Deshaun carry you to wins. Play to win, not "play not to lose".
Still think that was Tunsil that said he wouldn't sign a new deal yet. If I'm him I sure has hell wouldn't have. Why sign it now when you can come in, know you are going to be a difference maker and let an already high market get even higher as the price for a LT is just going to go up. Nah, if Tunsil's agent had signed an extension at this point he should have fired his agent.
 

banned1976

American
Still think that was Tunsil that said he wouldn't sign a new deal yet. If I'm him I sure has hell wouldn't have. Why sign it now when you can come in, know you are going to be a difference maker and let an already high market get even higher as the price for a LT is just going to go up. Nah, if Tunsil's agent had signed an extension at this point he should have fired his agent.
So he’s going to force the Texans to overpay? We all pretty much knew that at the very beginning. And that’s going to cause problems signing FA’s, their own and others. That will be a part of evaluating O’Brien as GM.
 
So he’s going to force the Texans to overpay? We all pretty much knew that at the very beginning. And that’s going to cause problems signing FA’s, their own and others. That will be a part of evaluating O’Brien as GM.
Depends on what is considered over paying. I think he will be the highest paid LT but that’s just until the next LT for some other team gets signed. It’s very hard to judge overpaying these days because the price is constantly going up.

Really you can thank the Raiders for this LT mess. Make a middle of the pack playing in the most Oline friendly conditions in the league the highest paid in history. So now when an actually good LT is up for grabs you might as well get ready to pay out the nose.

Only other choice is to move up in the draft like you were picking a QB because the cost won’t be that far off if you are drafting in the 20s like the Texans have last few years.
 

dream_team

All Pro
Yes, way too early to judge BOB the GM. Wait after 3 seasons.

I recall a lot of people were praising Gaine after his first offseason. Now look at all of those offseason acquisitions just after 2 seasons. Not to mention, he got fired.
 

banned1976

American
Depends on what is considered over paying. I think he will be the highest paid LT but that’s just until the next LT for some other team gets signed. It’s very hard to judge overpaying these days because the price is constantly going up.

Really you can thank the Raiders for this LT mess. Make a middle of the pack playing in the most Oline friendly conditions in the league the highest paid in history. So now when an actually good LT is up for grabs you might as well get ready to pay out the nose.

Only other choice is to move up in the draft like you were picking a QB because the cost won’t be that far off if you are drafting in the 20s like the Texans have last few years.
They did draft Duane Brown with the 26th pick, I believe. I don’t disagree with your other points. I just don’t think you have to give up a lot of draft capital to build a capable offensive line. At least it doesn’t have to be that way but by giving up what they did to get Tunsil that’s how O’Brien approached the problem. It has kept Watson in relative good shape for at least half a season +1. Hopefully that continues for many years to come.

Another way to approach the offensive line is with scheme. I won’t dwell on that one, though.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
What were your expectations of Savage?

He had a few good games as a backup QB and helped the team get to the playoffs. He would've started in the playoffs if not for being concussed. He exceeded my expectations for a 4th rd pick and certainly wasn't a bust. IMHO

I expected to see exactly what Bill O'Brien saw. He's the one that said Savage was ready to lead this train. He's the one that said Savage knew his offense through and through.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
This is a list of all current NFL head coaches with 5 or more years as a head coach. Everybody on the list except Jason Garrett & Bill O'Brian has at least been to one championship game.

Bill Belichick - 268/123/0 .685 - 9 Super Bowl Appearances, 6 Superbowl Wins - Edited Super Bowl Appearances.
Mike Tomlin - 127/70/1 .644 - 2 Super Bowl Appearances, 1 Superbowl Win, 1 AFC Championship Loss
Sean Payton - 123/75/0 .621 - 1 Super Bowl Win, 2 NFC Championship Losses
Andy Reid - 199/126/1 .612 - With Eagles: 1 Superbowl Loss, 4 NFC Championship Losses - With Chiefs: 1 AFC Championship Loss
Mike Zimmer - 51/34/1 .599 - 1 NFC Championship Loss
Bruce Arians - 51/34/1 .599 - 1 NFC Championship Loss
Pete Carroll - 126/86/1 .594 - 2 Super Bowl Appearances, 1 Superbowl Win
John Harbaugh - 108/74/0 .593 - 1 Super Bowl Win, 1 AFC Championship Loss
Ron Rivera - 75/58/1 .563 - 1 Superbowl Loss
Jason Garrett - 80/62/0 .563 - 2 Playoff Wins
Bill O'Brien - 46/40/0 .535 - 1 Playoff Win
Jon Gruden - 101/95/0 .515 - With Raiders 2000: 1 AFC Championship Loss - With Buccaneers: 1 Super Bowl Win
& that's why I shouldn't talk to myself. You're right. BO'b is not as good a coach as most currently active coaches.
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
So he’s going to force the Texans to overpay? We all pretty much knew that at the very beginning. And that’s going to cause problems signing FA’s, their own and others. That will be a part of evaluating O’Brien as GM.
No it's not, there's plenty of $$$$ to re-sign their FA's. They can clear even more $$$$ if they need to by moving on from JJo/WFV etc... to re-sign Watson (Who doesn't even need to be re-signed this offseason) Roby/Tunsil/Reader and even Mercilus if need be.

Plus the cap is going to get a big jump after the new CBA.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
This is a list of all current NFL head coaches with 5 or more years as a head coach. Everybody on the list except Jason Garrett & Bill O'Brian has at least been to one championship game.

Bill Belichick - 268/123/0 .685 - 9 Super Bowl Appearances, 6 Superbowl Wins - Edited Super Bowl Appearances.
Mike Tomlin - 127/70/1 .644 - 2 Super Bowl Appearances, 1 Superbowl Win, 1 AFC Championship Loss
Sean Payton - 123/75/0 .621 - 1 Super Bowl Win, 2 NFC Championship Losses
Andy Reid - 199/126/1 .612 - With Eagles: 1 Superbowl Loss, 4 NFC Championship Losses - With Chiefs: 1 AFC Championship Loss
Mike Zimmer - 51/34/1 .599 - 1 NFC Championship Loss
Bruce Arians - 51/34/1 .599 - 1 NFC Championship Loss
Pete Carroll - 126/86/1 .594 - 2 Super Bowl Appearances, 1 Superbowl Win
John Harbaugh - 108/74/0 .593 - 1 Super Bowl Win, 1 AFC Championship Loss
Ron Rivera - 75/58/1 .563 - 1 Superbowl Loss
Jason Garrett - 80/62/0 .563 - 2 Playoff Wins
Bill O'Brien - 46/40/0 .535 - 1 Playoff Win
Jon Gruden - 101/95/0 .515 - With Raiders 2000: 1 AFC Championship Loss - With Buccaneers: 1 Super Bowl Win
You didn't take into account the incompetence that was RS before making this post. I would say they've made a lot of progress in 2 short yrs since RS left Kirby.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
My only true complaint with the Tunsil trade after watching him play is that they didn't extend him immediately. Yes, giving up 2 first round picks in one trade sucks but he has been a stabilizing force on the left side of the line. I forgot how nice it is to not have to worry about our franchise QB getting blown up every other passing play on his blindside. Hopefully they get an extension done in the offseason.

As for some of the other trades, yeah, some have been an overpay. I wish they had gotten a lot more in the Clowney trade or not traded him at all. Conley and Johnson were probably overpays too but they've both come up with some clutch plays since they got here so at least they're performing despite the high price-tag.

All that being said, he gets to the AFC Championship game and I will have no complaints over the trades. All that draft capital given up, please get to the AFC title game because anything can happen at that point. And please, for the love of all that is good, keep playing aggressive and let Deshaun carry you to wins. Play to win, not "play not to lose".
Disagree about the Conley trade, you wont find a CB in the 3rd rd that's as good as he is and he's under his rookie contract for this yr and 2 more yrs.

Everything else I pretty much agree with.
 

banned1976

American
No it's not, there's plenty of $$$$ to re-sign their FA's. They can clear even more $$$$ if they need to by moving on from JJo/WFV etc... to re-sign Watson (Who doesn't even need to be re-signed this offseason) Roby/Tunsil/Reader and even Mercilus if need be.

Plus the cap is going to get a big jump after the new CBA.
We shall see. I’m not as certain as you about the future.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Disagree about the Conley trade, you wont find a CB in the 3rd rd that's as good as he is and he's under his rookie contract for this yr and 2 more yrs.

Everything else I pretty much agree with.

You can find a really good corner in the 3rd who can contribute right away.
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
You can find a really good corner in the 3rd who can contribute right away.
There is a whole list of 1st rounders with KJAX being one that did not contribute right away. CB is not a lock to pick nor contribute without a curve, Sure there are exceptions but a third rounder sure fire good contributor, come on. We rave about Reid because he is an exception and safety is easier
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
There is a whole list of 1st rounders with KJAX being one that did not contribute right away. CB is not a lock to pick nor contribute without a curve, Sure there are exceptions but a third rounder sure fire good contributor, come on. We rave about Reid because he is an exception and safety is easier

The point is you can find a diamond in the rough in every round. Just like we did with Reid. It is not far-fetched at all.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Care to point out CB's that were drafted in the 3rd rd that are starting? Jamaal Dean is the only one that I know that's starting and he got burned for several catches against Metcalf.

I'm not about to do that type of research brother. I've already have plenty of work out here on my job.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
The point is you can find a diamond in the rough in every round. Just like we did with Reid. It is not far-fetched at all.
Do you want to find a diamond in the rough, or would you rather get a guy who has 1st rd talent and is under his rookie contract for another 2 1/2 yrs?
 

Mr.Scarface

Waterboy
No it's not, there's plenty of $$$$ to re-sign their FA's. They can clear even more $$$$ if they need to by moving on from JJo/WFV etc... to re-sign Watson (Who doesn't even need to be re-signed this offseason) Roby/Tunsil/Reader and even Mercilus if need be.

Plus the cap is going to get a big jump after the new CBA.
There is a rumor that QBs will count outside of a team's salary cap. If that's the case, DW4's contract won't matter for the cap in 2021.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
So are you saying every starting CB in the NFL were drafted in the 1st round?
Nope, I'm saying very few rookie CB's can come in and start their rookie yrs, even 1st rders and you expecting a 3rd rd rookie to give you what Conley did last week is an unrealistic expectation. What does it really matter if you draft a rookie CB or trade for one on their rookie contract? Talent matters and Conley is very talented who just needed to be in the right scheme.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Gotta say... I'm starting to warm up to this Bill O'Brien GM thing.

Hargreaves may very well be a bust. This doesn't really cost us much at all. Not a draft pick. No guaranteed money beyond this year. We can pick up his 5th year if we want.

Bravo Bill O'Brien
 
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I like the move to pick up Hargreaves off waivers. Worst case, he sucks and moves on. Best case, get a young corner who was a recent high draft pick. We need help badly in the secondary so I'm glad they're rolling the dice with Hargreaves and to a lesser extent Conley.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I like the move to pick up Hargreaves off waivers. Worst case, he sucks and moves on. Best case, get a young corner who was a recent high draft pick. We need help badly in the secondary so I'm glad they're rolling the dice with Hargreaves and to a lesser extent Conley.
I like Conley way more than Hargreaves. Conley has the size/Speed to play outside.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Just a couple years ago we were hearing that O'Brien can't get fired until he has a full complement of picks.

Now we are hearing that a full complement of picks isn't needed.
O'Brien will be judged on the pics he has left for 2020 as well as the players he got for the pics he gave up in 2020. Why don't we wait until the end of 2019 and see how is current players produce?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
There is a rumor that QBs will count outside of a team's salary cap. If that's the case, DW4's contract won't matter for the cap in 2021.
Well that is interesting! I have not heard that anywhere. If you can find any links to that at all it would be deeply appreciated; in fact if you could PM them to me so I would be sure not to miss your posting That would be great! I am going to start researching immediately. Thanks again
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I'm not about to do that type of research brother. I've already have plenty of work out here on my job.
I started to compile a nice, organized spreadsheet since I figured the NFL personnel authority for this community might be right about this topic, but no - he's not as usual .. just more bullshit.


I only got to the AFC West before I gave up with the compilation and I noticed that the majority of starting cornerbacks in the NFL were drafted in the 3rd round or later, or not even drafted at all. It would have been easier to compile a 1st/2nd round starting CB list.
 

mws

Waterboy
I only got to the AFC West before I gave up with the compilation and I noticed that the majority of starting cornerbacks in the NFL were drafted in the 3rd round or later, or not even drafted at all. It would have been easier to compile a 1st/2nd round starting CB list.
I looked at 4 team's starters here.

Patriot Starters
CB Jason McCourty 6.203
DB Stephon Gilmore 1.10
DB Jonathan Jones UDFA
DB Devin McCourty 1.10

Bills
CB Levi Wallace UDFA
CB TreDavious White 1.27
S Micah Hyde 5.159.
S Jordan Poyer 7.218

Texans
CB Lonnie Johnson 2.54
CB Johnathan Joseph 1.24
CB Bradley Roby 1.31
S Tashaun Gipson UDFA
S Justin Reid 3.68

Colts
CB Pierre Desir 4.127
CB Kenny Moore UDFA
CB Rock Ya-Sin 2.34
S Clayton Geathers 4.109
S Malik Hooker 1.15
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
I looked at 4 team's starters here.

Patriot Starters
CB Jason McCourty 6.203
DB Stephon Gilmore 1.10
DB Jonathan Jones UDFA
DB Devin McCourty 1.10

Bills
CB Levi Wallace UDFA
CB TreDavious White 1.27
S Micah Hyde 5.159.
S Jordan Poyer 7.218

Texans
CB Lonnie Johnson 2.54
CB Johnathan Joseph 1.24
CB Bradley Roby 1.31
S Tashaun Gipson UDFA
S Justin Reid 3.68

Colts
CB Pierre Desir 4.127
CB Kenny Moore UDFA
CB Rock Ya-Sin 2.34
S Clayton Geathers 4.109
S Malik Hooker 1.15
Thanks for this and actually not surprising to me. I think the question was right away contributor third and lower. The draft is not precise so the NFL is full of starters that worked hard and developed way above their draft slot and busts that play below and lose their spots. The harder research was studs who walk in and success right away at CB. In any case, talent infusion is good and a bird in the hand for a third that still has a couple years left of control seems a good deal for a crap shoot third
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I looked at 4 team's starters here.

Patriot Starters
CB Jason McCourty 6.203
DB Stephon Gilmore 1.10
DB Jonathan Jones UDFA
DB Devin McCourty 1.10

Bills
CB Levi Wallace UDFA
CB TreDavious White 1.27
S Micah Hyde 5.159.
S Jordan Poyer 7.218

Texans
CB Lonnie Johnson 2.54
CB Johnathan Joseph 1.24
CB Bradley Roby 1.31
S Tashaun Gipson UDFA
S Justin Reid 3.68

Colts
CB Pierre Desir 4.127
CB Kenny Moore UDFA
CB Rock Ya-Sin 2.34
S Clayton Geathers 4.109
S Malik Hooker 1.15
if you start from top to bottom the way its listed in the page i linked you can surmise a pretty evident conclusion fairly quickly, at least to dispel the continuous propaganda and disinformation a certain few people here seem to base their contributions on. You would think that with data so easily at the hand they would TRY to do a little bit of legwork before just blabbing out their ass.

What I have noticed is that the "ALL PRO" types tend to be top drafted players (at least the CB position) but is that really much of a surprise? Im just rebutting the notion that there arent many "3rd round or later" starting CBs. Its a foolish comment to make.
 

mws

Waterboy
Just looking at the Colts starting roster. They have 12 defensive starters listed (3 CBs & 3 LBs) for 23 total. It breaks down like this.

1st Rd 4
2nd Rd 4
3rd Rd 4
4th Rd 5
5th Rd 1
UDFA 5
 

Mr.Scarface

Waterboy
O'Brien will be judged on the pics he has left for 2020 as well as the players he got for the pics he gave up in 2020. Why don't we wait until the end of 2019 and see how is current players produce?
You wanted Watson to get killed with Kahlil at Tackle? We would have been in trouble at RB, Injuries with have left the Texans with no depth a CB. Plus, Still added much needed depth a WR.
You cannot wait if you have needs now.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Just looking at the Colts starting roster. They have 12 defensive starters listed (3 CBs & 3 LBs) for 23 total. It breaks down like this.

1st Rd 4
2nd Rd 4
3rd Rd 4
4th Rd 5
5th Rd 1
UDFA 5
Ok so JUST using your sample size it would appear that 65% of the defensive roster is compiled of players drafted 3rd round or later yeah? Further, their starting CBs are a 4th rounder and a college free agent? Hmmm. Far cry from "not many 3rd round starting CBs in the NFL" or however that point was worded. Just curious .. which direction are you going with this information?
 

mws

Waterboy
Ok so JUST using your sample size it would appear that 65% of the defensive roster is compiled of players drafted 3rd round or later yeah? Further, their starting CBs are a 4th rounder and a college free agent? Hmmm. Far cry from "not many 3rd round starting CBs in the NFL" or however that point was worded. Just curious .. which direction are you going with this information?
I don't really think it is enough data to say. The Texans starters for the Jaguars looked like this.

1st Rd: 6
2nd Rd: 5
3rd Rd: 1
4th Rd: 1
5th Rd: 2
6th Rd: 1
UDFA: 6

Out of 22 starters for the Texans 17 were from rds 1 & 2 & UDFA. Only 5 came from rds 3-7.

Not really going anywhere with it. Just kind of got interested in where most starters came from. Turned out to be more work than I was willing to do so I just posted what I had.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Thanks for this and actually not surprising to me. I think the question was right away contributor third and lower. The draft is not precise so the NFL is full of starters that worked hard and developed way above their draft slot and busts that play below and lose their spots. The harder research was studs who walk in and success right away at CB. In any case, talent infusion is good and a bird in the hand for a third that still has a couple years left of control seems a good deal for a crap shoot third
Exactly,

I wasn't as succinct as I should've been.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I started to compile a nice, organized spreadsheet since I figured the NFL personnel authority for this community might be right about this topic, but no - he's not as usual .. just more bullshit.


I only got to the AFC West before I gave up with the compilation and I noticed that the majority of starting cornerbacks in the NFL were drafted in the 3rd round or later, or not even drafted at all. It would have been easier to compile a 1st/2nd round starting CB list.
Care to teel us how many of these guys started as rookies? Much less joined a new team and stepped in and played very well with their new teams right off of the bat?
 


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