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Is it time to discuss OB the GM yet?

theCATALYST

Rookie
I know everyone's feelings on OB the HC and OB the OC, but halfway thru the season I think it's time to reflect on and discuss OB the GM.

I don't think we would currently be 6-3 at the bye if not for the acquisitions our GM has garnered.

A majority of OBs acquisitions have had large contributions this year.

Laremy Tunsil, Carlos Hyde, Duke Johnson, TaShaun Gipson, Bradley Robey, etc etc.

Just this past Sunday in London we got great contributions from Gareon Conley and Boddy-Calhoun on specific plays as well.

What are your thoughts? It really looks like we are starting to get some solid depth at needed positions on this team. As players start returning from injury, I can't help but feel our depth will finally get this team over the hump.

Discuss...
 
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TheKDog

Hall of Fame
My thought is the next two drafts suck and we'll lose several free agents over the next couple years.

But if we win the division or get a wildcard spot this year, then maybe it was worth it
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
I know everyone's feelings on OB the HC and OB the OC, but halfway thru the season I think it's time to reflect on and discuss OB the GM.

I don't think we would currently be 6-3 at the bye if not for the acquisitions our GM has garnered.

A majority of OBs acquisitions have had large contributions this year.

Laremy Tunsil, Carlos Hyde, Duke Johnson, TaShaun Gipson, Bradley Robey, etc etc.

Just this past Sunday in London we got great contributions from Gareon Conley and Boddy-Calhoun on specific plays as well.

What are your thoughts? It really looks like we are starting to get some solid depth at needed positions on this team. As players start returning from injury, I can't help but feel our depth will finally get this team over the hump.

Discuss...
I think O'Brien has some good traits, and this is why he's not been terrible at his job. I think he has some shortcomings, and this is why he's not been great at his job. Aside from the obvious time management and game situation management issues, I don't think he has what it takes in the long term planning department. If he had been building this team worth a damn, he wouldn't have had to go out and trade away so much capital for known commodities. If he had been building this team worth a damn, he would have spent the first 3-4 seasons building the OL so that when Watson came along, he would have had a competent OL in front of him and all the draft capital wouldn't have had to be traded away. If he had been building this team worth a damn, we would never have seen how bad Tom Savage was at QB.

Injuries happen, so I'm not downgrading what he's done at RB, DB, or DL. Getting Hyde and Duke Johnson was a good move. Of course, Duke Johnson is widely regarded as one of the best pass catching backs in the game, and we barely even see him utilized, so there are other aspects to O'Brien's job that I question. But sticking to the GM theme, I think the cupboard will be bare the next few years, and we'll see Deshaun Watson struggling to drag a mediocre roster into the playoffs. He'll do it, but the team will fall short because that's when depth matters, and the short term thinking of whatever happens in those games will rule the day, when really, the stage has been set this season with all these trades.

Then there's the lack of return/totally improper play on the Clowney deal. There was no reason to deal Clowney when they dealt him, they got a pitiful return, they're paying a chunk of his salary right now, and the entire debacle rests at the feet of O'Brien the GM.

So far, not impressed. One key difference between a coach and a GM is long term planning.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
But if we win the division or get a wildcard spot this year, then maybe it was worth it
Strange.

As hard as you've been on the Texans for the moves they have made, I'd have thought you'd set the bar higher.

I like the talent on this team now. If everyone were healthy I'd be confident we'd win out. This roster should win 12+ games.

I know there's a lot of playoff inexperience on the OL, but the rest of the team should be hungry enough & mature enough to win in the divisional round. AFCCG or bust imo
 

welsh texan

Site Contributor
Too early to discuss him as a GM. He was put in a tough spot to begin with through Gaines' inaction, paid a premium for last minute trades. Those trades look solid in isolation, but you've got to get 3 years down the line before you decide if those players made a lasting impact on the team and if they manage to restock their depth without the premier picks they gave up.

My view is that once Caserio gets here, you will have the 'management' side of the GM role running like a swiss watch to exactly what OB wants, and it should help them achieve what they need.

I will state that I felt the years before they took a QB should have been the window to put the OL in place ready for that QB to shine, I'm glad that someone took the bull by the horns so to speak and did something before that rookie contract runs out. Don't forget, also, that in today's NFL, players are happy to force the issue if they feel they aren't in a position to succeed. Money may not have been the issue come contract time if they hadn't got DW an OL at this point.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
BoB seems to have a gift for finding players that that might be considered underrated and then getting quality plays out of them. Sadly that gift doesn't extend to being able to pay underrated prices. So far just about every player he has grabbed has been an impact player at their position but we payed full price for them. Them being so impactful may also be a result of the fact that the person they are replacing was so bad or ill-suited that it seems to stand out more. For example I love the Tunsil trade and think he is a very good to great player but they could have put a card board cutout at LT and it would have been an upgrade over Davenport and Kalil. Johnson has been good but I can't honestly say he was a big upgrade over Miller and we wouldn't even have Hyde, who has been a big upgrade, if Miller hadn't of gotten taken out so early. So our RB group would have been Johnson and Miller and can anyone really see those two being the impact Hyde and Johnson have been? So its really hard to say right now if BoB has an eye for seeing talent others don't or the ability to find talent in a player that others couldn't. Both are good qualities but one is better for a GM to have and the other is better for a coach to have.

Free agency grade I give him an: A

Draft grade, just using the one person we know was his hand picked guy and that's Savage I give him a: D

I worry if BoB had been calling the shots in that draft would we have moved up to take Savage or something like that?
 

Grams

Subscribed Contributor
He used too many draft picks on some with no guarantee that the players will be here next year. Did not get enough or good enough draft picks on another. A Couple of pickups are pretty good. As a GM just not impressed so far.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
I think O'Brien has some good traits, and this is why he's not been terrible at his job. I think he has some shortcomings, and this is why he's not been great at his job. Aside from the obvious time management and game situation management issues, I don't think he has what it takes in the long term planning department. If he had been building this team worth a damn, he wouldn't have had to go out and trade away so much capital for known commodities. If he had been building this team worth a damn, he would have spent the first 3-4 seasons building the OL so that when Watson came along, he would have had a competent OL in front of him and all the draft capital wouldn't have had to be traded away. If he had been building this team worth a damn, we would never have seen how bad Tom Savage was at QB.

Injuries happen, so I'm not downgrading what he's done at RB, DB, or DL. Getting Hyde and Duke Johnson was a good move. Of course, Duke Johnson is widely regarded as one of the best pass catching backs in the game, and we barely even see him utilized, so there are other aspects to O'Brien's job that I question. But sticking to the GM theme, I think the cupboard will be bare the next few years, and we'll see Deshaun Watson struggling to drag a mediocre roster into the playoffs. He'll do it, but the team will fall short because that's when depth matters, and the short term thinking of whatever happens in those games will rule the day, when really, the stage has been set this season with all these trades.

Then there's the lack of return/totally improper play on the Clowney deal. There was no reason to deal Clowney when they dealt him, they got a pitiful return, they're paying a chunk of his salary right now, and the entire debacle rests at the feet of O'Brien the GM.

So far, not impressed. One key difference between a coach and a GM is long term planning.
You could make a very good case that he had little to nothing to do with building the team those first seasons. While I don't think he had as little to do with it as say SteelB does it is clear that RS was doing the drafting and he seemed to have an issue with drafting linemen. What you can hang around BoB's neck is that Devlin was and is the Oline coach so now you have crappy players with a crappy coach giving you crappy production. As far as selecting the players though I'm willing to give him at least a little bit of the benefit of the doubt. Not sure what Savage has to do with his job as a GM, if you want to use it has a knock against his job as a HC I'm right there with you but Savage has nothing to do with him as a GM.

The Clowney deal that's a tough one, me and a few others said the guy was a GM nightmare and we were right. Not getting a deal done before he was tagged that's on Gaine and may have been part of the reason he isn't here any more. After he was tagged their hands were tied in many ways. They could have made him play on the tag and that's most likely what I would have done but on the other hand if the guy was cancer in the locker room and say they make him play and he spent all this season running the team down and talking about how he couldn't wait to be a F/A then yeah its worth it to take the hit to get rid of him. There are also more than a few reports that he wasn't liked and that even JJ thought he was lazy. Certainly no one seems to be missing him.

So yeah on the surface it looks like a crap deal and BoB got bent over by Seattle on it but if you look past the numbers to possible intangible things like team morale then its gets a bit more complex.
 

Uncle Rico

Pro BS'er
I think Bob the Builder is getting alot of credit for what Brian Gaine started. Hell Gaine got fired for not trading up for Dillard and taking the "project" Howard and how's that looking? YOu know who's got pie in the face on that one?? This guy over here. I take an "L" on that one, and can have the objectivity to look back and say that Gaine did a decent job and he probably shouldnt have been fired.

Tunsil, Hyde, Johnson, Stills as nice as they have integrated were born out of sheer necessity. O'Brien found a willing partner and paid out the ass for what he deemed was a worthwhile pick. Lets also not forget about the busts and doghouse players. Lets not bow to our master because I could argue he could have kept Rankin and signed Hyde as a street free agent, and why would you give up a 3rd rounder for Duke Johnson when he too was on the way out? I could say that dang near any viable free agent option at RB would have been successful due to the talent injection on the line and the magical QB play.

Reports were that Conley was traded to the highest bidder, could he have been had for a fourth? Include some current talent to sweeten without giving up a much more valuable 3rd? We'll never know.

All in all it has been a successful excursion into the managerial ranks for Mr O'Brien because I judge on wins and losses. As long as this team wins, guys like me really cant beat that drum, but we can be quick to remind everyone when it goes South. Im still in the camp where its not a good idea to give one person that much control, especially on a professional football team, but if we make it to the Super Bowl I'd be willing to change my mind.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
The GM told the HC/OC to ditch his fantasy playbook and cater to the strength of his team. Now look at us, we’re 6-3.

Sometimes it’s ok to listen to your enter being. Lol
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
My thought is the next two drafts suck and we'll lose several free agents over the next couple years.

But if we win the division or get a wildcard spot this year, then maybe it was worth it
If they do their jobs the next 2 drafts wont suck. They have a pick in every rd next yr besides the 1st rd.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I think O'Brien has some good traits, and this is why he's not been terrible at his job. I think he has some shortcomings, and this is why he's not been great at his job. Aside from the obvious time management and game situation management issues, I don't think he has what it takes in the long term planning department. If he had been building this team worth a damn, he wouldn't have had to go out and trade away so much capital for known commodities. If he had been building this team worth a damn, he would have spent the first 3-4 seasons building the OL so that when Watson came along, he would have had a competent OL in front of him and all the draft capital wouldn't have had to be traded away. If he had been building this team worth a damn, we would never have seen how bad Tom Savage was at QB.

Injuries happen, so I'm not downgrading what he's done at RB, DB, or DL. Getting Hyde and Duke Johnson was a good move. Of course, Duke Johnson is widely regarded as one of the best pass catching backs in the game, and we barely even see him utilized, so there are other aspects to O'Brien's job that I question. But sticking to the GM theme, I think the cupboard will be bare the next few years, and we'll see Deshaun Watson struggling to drag a mediocre roster into the playoffs. He'll do it, but the team will fall short because that's when depth matters, and the short term thinking of whatever happens in those games will rule the day, when really, the stage has been set this season with all these trades.

Then there's the lack of return/totally improper play on the Clowney deal. There was no reason to deal Clowney when they dealt him, they got a pitiful return, they're paying a chunk of his salary right now, and the entire debacle rests at the feet of O'Brien the GM.

So far, not impressed. One key difference between a coach and a GM is long term planning.
BOB didn't have the final say in the draft those first 3-4 yrs. You talk about depth and this team has the best depth in team history. In the next couple of yrs they will have the necessary depth. After that you will see more offseasons like this one to add depth.. Minus the Tunsil trade.

The org has changed the way they are doing business, what they had been doing didn't and wasn't going to work. Fans have been programmed to accept the status quo and Cal/BOB broke up the status quo. I understand that people dont like change. But time for change was long over due. I cant wait for Caserio to get here because BOB is currently having to wear too many hats.

Agreed about Clowney, although I understand why BOB did what he did.
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
I think his valuation on talent is good but his ability to negotiate and sign contracts hasn’t been great. He fumbled the Clowney stuff and over paid Martin at a terrible time. We need someone who can work through the contract side of things. But I’m impressed at his willingness to improve the team. I’m all for trading picks for proven players in the league rather than gambling on young players in the draft. He hates playing them anyway. So why not continue to pick up veterans.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I think Bob the Builder is getting alot of credit for what Brian Gaine started. Hell Gaine got fired for not trading up for Dillard and taking the "project" Howard and how's that looking? YOu know who's got pie in the face on that one?? This guy over here. I take an "L" on that one, and can have the objectivity to look back and say that Gaine did a decent job and he probably shouldnt have been fired.

Tunsil, Hyde, Johnson, Stills as nice as they have integrated were born out of sheer necessity. O'Brien found a willing partner and paid out the ass for what he deemed was a worthwhile pick. Lets also not forget about the busts and doghouse players. Lets not bow to our master because I could argue he could have kept Rankin and signed Hyde as a street free agent, and why would you give up a 3rd rounder for Duke Johnson when he too was on the way out? I could say that dang near any viable free agent option at RB would have been successful due to the talent injection on the line and the magical QB play.

Reports were that Conley was traded to the highest bidder, could he have been had for a fourth? Include some current talent to sweeten without giving up a much more valuable 3rd? We'll never know.

All in all it has been a successful excursion into the managerial ranks for Mr O'Brien because I judge on wins and losses. As long as this team wins, guys like me really cant beat that drum, but we can be quick to remind everyone when it goes South. Im still in the camp where its not a good idea to give one person that much control, especially on a professional football team, but if we make it to the Super Bowl I'd be willing to change my mind.
Gaine didn't get fired for job performance.

There sure are alot of assumptions in this post.

SB or bust. LMAO although I will be very happy if they make the SB. This is yr 2 of a 3 yr rebuild and nothing has changed. They will make the playoffs this yr but this is the yr that Watson/ young OL and guys like L.Jo get experience. Nothing so far has made me think the timeline has been sped up. If they make the SB it will be because BOB did a great job and Watson performed magic. Watson has to prove he can play great for 3 games in a row against top level competition and so far he hasn't done this. Doesn't mean he cant/wont, just means he hasn't done it yet.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I think his valuation on talent is good but his ability to negotiate and sign contracts hasn’t been great. He fumbled the Clowney stuff and over paid Martin at a terrible time. We need someone who can work through the contract side of things. But I’m impressed at his willingness to improve the team. I’m all for trading picks for proven players in the league rather than gambling on young players in the draft. He hates playing them anyway. So why not continue to pick up veterans.
Agreed, Caserio will be here next yr to help BOB out with this.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
The GM told the HC/OC to ditch his fantasy playbook and cater to the strength of his team. Now look at us, we’re 6-3.

Sometimes it’s ok to listen to your enter being. Lol
This time it’s different because of the tough schedule this season.

Pretty impressive with all injuries we’ve sustained
Agreed, Hopefully Watson can stay healthy with the new playbook and his style of play.


2 other differences are, 1. The young OL has taken time to jell and should get better as the season progresses. Last yrs OL wasn't talented enough to improve.

2. This is the most depth the Texans have ever had. For instance the secondary even as banged up as it has been, with the Conley trade and adding Addae has given them the depth they need to survive injuries.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Strange.

As hard as you've been on the Texans for the moves they have made, I'd have thought you'd set the bar higher.

I like the talent on this team now. If everyone were healthy I'd be confident we'd win out. This roster should win 12+ games.

I know there's a lot of playoff inexperience on the OL, but the rest of the team should be hungry enough & mature enough to win in the divisional round. AFCCG or bust imo

I don't see how they can make the afcg.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
I think Bob the Builder is getting alot of credit for what Brian Gaine started. Hell Gaine got fired for not trading up for Dillard and taking the "project" Howard and how's that looking? YOu know who's got pie in the face on that one?? This guy over here. I take an "L" on that one, and can have the objectivity to look back and say that Gaine did a decent job and he probably shouldnt have been fired.

Tunsil, Hyde, Johnson, Stills as nice as they have integrated were born out of sheer necessity. O'Brien found a willing partner and paid out the ass for what he deemed was a worthwhile pick. Lets also not forget about the busts and doghouse players. Lets not bow to our master because I could argue he could have kept Rankin and signed Hyde as a street free agent, and why would you give up a 3rd rounder for Duke Johnson when he too was on the way out? I could say that dang near any viable free agent option at RB would have been successful due to the talent injection on the line and the magical QB play.

Reports were that Conley was traded to the highest bidder, could he have been had for a fourth? Include some current talent to sweeten without giving up a much more valuable 3rd? We'll never know.

All in all it has been a successful excursion into the managerial ranks for Mr O'Brien because I judge on wins and losses. As long as this team wins, guys like me really cant beat that drum, but we can be quick to remind everyone when it goes South. Im still in the camp where its not a good idea to give one person that much control, especially on a professional football team, but if we make it to the Super Bowl I'd be willing to change my mind.
Can you get me some tickets to some games? I mean given how you are stating as fact things that no fan would know its clear you have an inside track with the Texans and must even work closely with Cal himself since you know why Gaine was fired but no one else in the sports world does. Also that bolded line pretty much sums it up, so as long as they are winning you lay low and don't say anything but the moment they don't you will jump out and say "see I told you so". That's not being a fan, that's being a troll.
 

mws

Veteran
Have we? 5-0 against teams .500 or worse. 1-3 against teams better than .500. Seems pretty much like the same ol song and dance. Pile up the Ws against the mediocre and bad, still can’t beat the good teams more consistently.
So far 2018 was O'Brian's best season against above 500 teams.

2014: 2/6 .250
2015: 2/3 .400
2016: 3/5 .375
2017: 1/9 .100
2018: 3/4 .429
2019: 1/3 .250

Comparison of 2018 to 2019 so far.

2018: 6/3 at the bye.
2019: 6/3 at the bye.

2018: 2/2 Against winning teams at the bye.
Lost Patriots 11/5
Lost Titans 9/7
Won Colts 10/6
Won Cowboys 10/6

2019: 1/3 Against winning teams at the bye.
Lost Saints 7/1
Lost Panthers 5/3
Lost Colts 5/3
Won Chiefs 6/3

Of course the 2019 winning teams are not carved in stone so all this could change but really the 2 seasons are shaping up to be more alike than I would ever have imagined.
 

theCATALYST

Rookie
Such a discussion seems premature at the midpoint of his first and only season as GM especially with the meat of the schedule before us.
I dunno but why not table it until the completion of his first season ?
Probably the wise route to wait, however I was impressed by players such as Conley being able to come right in and make a positive impact. Waiting a full season or longer for the bigger picture would be most accurate, but being a bye week I thought it a good discussion to have of OBs job as GM thus far.
 
BoB seems to have a gift for finding players that that might be considered underrated and then getting quality plays out of them. Sadly that gift doesn't extend to being able to pay underrated prices. So far just about every player he has grabbed has been an impact player at their position but we payed full price for them. Them being so impactful may also be a result of the fact that the person they are replacing was so bad or ill-suited that it seems to stand out more. For example I love the Tunsil trade and think he is a very good to great player but they could have put a card board cutout at LT and it would have been an upgrade over Davenport and Kalil. Johnson has been good but I can't honestly say he was a big upgrade over Miller and we wouldn't even have Hyde, who has been a big upgrade, if Miller hadn't of gotten taken out so early. So our RB group would have been Johnson and Miller and can anyone really see those two being the impact Hyde and Johnson have been? So its really hard to say right now if BoB has an eye for seeing talent others don't or the ability to find talent in a player that others couldn't. Both are good qualities but one is better for a GM to have and the other is better for a coach to have.

Free agency grade I give him an: A

Draft grade, just using the one person we know was his hand picked guy and that's Savage I give him a: D

I worry if BoB had been calling the shots in that draft would we have moved up to take Savage or something like that?
Tom Savage was a 4th round pick and was NOT O'Brien's "hand picked guy". That was Rick Smith picking a middle round QB like head done forever. As a backup candidate.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
I don't see how they can make the afcg
That's besides the point. I agree with you. We've given up valuable future draft capital. Winning a Wildcard game just doesn't seem like a sufficient return. We've done that before.

IMO, we need to take the next step. We need to win a Divisional playoff game.

If we can do that & remain as competitive next season I'd call it a wash.

If we can get one yard from winning the AFCG, then I'll give them a pass if they're the Detroit Lions next season. But 2021 I'm full negative again.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
Tom Savage was a 4th round pick and was NOT O'Brien's "hand picked guy". That was Rick Smith picking a middle round QB like head done forever. As a backup candidate.
So explain to me how someone can be on the sane team for three years then the year he gets to play look and act like he has no clue what he’s doing. I don’t blame BoB for Savages lack of talent but there is no excuse for someone that bad to have a roster spot for three years. You can’t even say it was because he was a backup QB because he sucked at that to.
 
So explain to me how someone can be on the sane team for three years then the year he gets to play look and act like he has no clue what he’s doing. I don’t blame BoB for Savages lack of talent but there is no excuse for someone that bad to have a roster spot for three years. You can’t even say it was because he was a backup QB because he sucked at that to.
Actually Savage played well in a few games at the end of 2016....before he got concussed (short memory?). He looked better than Watson in the pre-season in 2017. The problem was that the O-Line was bad and Jacksonville made him look terrible that first game. When Watson got hurt, it was still the BAD Oline. Savage was a statue when that line needed a Mobile QB.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
So explain to me how someone can be on the sane team for three years then the year he gets to play look and act like he has no clue what he’s doing. I don’t blame BoB for Savages lack of talent but there is no excuse for someone that bad to have a roster spot for three years. You can’t even say it was because he was a backup QB because he sucked at that to.
Tom Savage's lack of talent was exacerbated by our inability to protect the QB. The OL is part of that. The blitz pickup is part of that. The play calling is part of that. Tom Savage is part of that.

Watson's ability to overcome all that went wrong is special. I don't think we can blame Tom Savage for not being Desaun Watson.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
So explain to me how someone can be on the sane team for three years then the year he gets to play look and act like he has no clue what he’s doing. I don’t blame BoB for Savages lack of talent but there is no excuse for someone that bad to have a roster spot for three years. You can’t even say it was because he was a backup QB because he sucked at that to.

Savage was a Bill O'Brien guy. Lol some people just want to put all the blame on RS.

And exactly, dude was that freaking bad.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
Actually Savage played well in a few games at the end of 2016....before he got concussed (short memory?). He looked better than Watson in the pre-season in 2017. The problem was that the O-Line was bad and Jacksonville made him look terrible that first game. When Watson got hurt, it was still the BAD Oline. Savage was a statue when that line needed a Mobile QB.
Backup QBs usually do actually play well for at least a few games when they come in because teams game planned for the starter. I agree entirely that our Oline made a QB look worse than they are but that still doesn't excuse how lost he looked and how little he seemed to understand the playbook after being in the system three years. Keep in mind I don't blame Savage for that, he is what he is, I blame BoB for letting him sit there for three years without any sign of growth and for sticking a statue behind a swiss cheese line.

Tom Savage's lack of talent was exacerbated by our inability to protect the QB. The OL is part of that. The blitz pickup is part of that. The play calling is part of that. Tom Savage is part of that.

Watson's ability to overcome all that went wrong is special. I don't think we can blame Tom Savage for not being Desaun Watson.
Agree entirely and again I don't blame Savage for not being Watson or blame him even for not being a starter quality QB. I blame BoB that Savage either didn't show any signs of growth and was still kept on the roster for 3 years or that Savage wasn't worked with at all to be allowed to grow and was just drawing easy money for three years. I suspect its more the former seeing how they did everything they could to keep him from being the starter for so long and then just as soon as it was clear he would be the starter, boom, we suddenly are in the market for a QB and make moves that were very un-Texan like to get one.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
I think O'Brien has some good traits, and this is why he's not been terrible at his job. I think he has some shortcomings, and this is why he's not been great at his job. Aside from the obvious time management and game situation management issues, I don't think he has what it takes in the long term planning department. If he had been building this team worth a damn, he wouldn't have had to go out and trade away so much capital for known commodities. If he had been building this team worth a damn, he would have spent the first 3-4 seasons building the OL so that when Watson came along, he would have had a competent OL in front of him and all the draft capital wouldn't have had to be traded away. If he had been building this team worth a damn, we would never have seen how bad Tom Savage was at QB.

Injuries happen, so I'm not downgrading what he's done at RB, DB, or DL. Getting Hyde and Duke Johnson was a good move. Of course, Duke Johnson is widely regarded as one of the best pass catching backs in the game, and we barely even see him utilized, so there are other aspects to O'Brien's job that I question. But sticking to the GM theme, I think the cupboard will be bare the next few years, and we'll see Deshaun Watson struggling to drag a mediocre roster into the playoffs. He'll do it, but the team will fall short because that's when depth matters, and the short term thinking of whatever happens in those games will rule the day, when really, the stage has been set this season with all these trades.

Then there's the lack of return/totally improper play on the Clowney deal. There was no reason to deal Clowney when they dealt him, they got a pitiful return, they're paying a chunk of his salary right now, and the entire debacle rests at the feet of O'Brien the GM.

So far, not impressed. One key difference between a coach and a GM is long term planning.
I'm ok with OB the GM so far. I highly value draft picks, but I'm ok with the talent I'm seeing, especially from Hyde.I didn't like that acquisition when it happened. I didn't like how the Clowney situation was handled at all, but it is what it is.

The bolded comes down to being a competent coach being able to scheme to the players that are available. OB is not a competent coach.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
Tom Savage's lack of talent was exacerbated by our inability to protect the QB. The OL is part of that. The blitz pickup is part of that. The play calling is part of that. Tom Savage is part of that.

Watson's ability to overcome all that went wrong is special. I don't think we can blame Tom Savage for not being Desaun Watson.
No, you blame the guy who made the roster decisions to put all that together.
 

Mangler

Hall of Fame
If the moves that were made this past offseason are any indication of anything, I’m convinced O’Brien wasn’t the problem for the years of crap free agency moves, and weak drafting since his arrival. I now believe the problem was Bob McNair and Rick Smith. O’Brien has shown to be aggressive and going after pretty damn good guys who have made a difference almost instantly. I still want Caserio to make his way down to Houston and help O’Brien.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
If the moves that were made this past offseason are any indication of anything, I’m convinced O’Brien wasn’t the problem for the years of crap free agency moves, and weak drafting since his arrival. I now believe the problem was Bob McNair and Rick Smith. O’Brien has shown to be aggressive and going after pretty damn good guys who have made a difference almost instantly. I still want Caserio to make his way down to Houston and help O’Brien.
Yes & no. I still think there was a big problem coaching what he had.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
So explain to me how someone can be on the sane team for three years then the year he gets to play look and act like he has no clue what he’s doing. I don’t blame BoB for Savages lack of talent but there is no excuse for someone that bad to have a roster spot for three years. You can’t even say it was because he was a backup QB because he sucked at that to.
Savage had talent but had issues processing information. BOB tried to speed up his processing in practices while he was riding the bench. You never know what you have until the live bullets start flying amd Savage couldn't process fast enough.

Savage was a project not a franchise QB. He was a lesser McCarron, a backup at best.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Backup QBs usually do actually play well for at least a few games when they come in because teams game planned for the starter. I agree entirely that our Oline made a QB look worse than they are but that still doesn't excuse how lost he looked and how little he seemed to understand the playbook after being in the system three years. Keep in mind I don't blame Savage for that, he is what he is, I blame BoB for letting him sit there for three years without any sign of growth and for sticking a statue behind a swiss cheese line.



Agree entirely and again I don't blame Savage for not being Watson or blame him even for not being a starter quality QB. I blame BoB that Savage either didn't show any signs of growth and was still kept on the roster for 3 years or that Savage wasn't worked with at all to be allowed to grow and was just drawing easy money for three years. I suspect its more the former seeing how they did everything they could to keep him from being the starter for so long and then just as soon as it was clear he would be the starter, boom, we suddenly are in the market for a QB and make moves that were very un-Texan like to get one.
The point is Savage was never going to be the franchise QB unless they got lucky with him like the Pats did with Brady.

They took a flier on a guy with the good QB traits (Arm Strength/Accuracy) in the 4th rd and he leveled out as a backup QB not a franchise QB. To blame BOB for not turning a 4th rd pick into a franchise QB isn't fair. IMHO
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
The point is Savage was never going to be the franchise QB unless they got lucky with him like the Pats did with Brady.

They took a flier on a guy with the good QB traits (Arm Strength/Accuracy) in the 4th rd and he leveled out as a backup QB not a franchise QB. To blame BOB for not turning a 4th rd pick into a franchise QB isn't fair. IMHO
Please point out where at any point I said I expected Savage to be a franchise QB. Hell forget franchise he didn't even work out as a backup QB.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I'm ok with OB the GM so far. I highly value draft picks, but I'm ok with the talent I'm seeing, especially from Hyde.I didn't like that acquisition when it happened. I didn't like how the Clowney situation was handled at all, but it is what it is.

The bolded comes down to being a competent coach being able to scheme to the players that are available. OB is not a competent coach.
Care to share how he isn't a competent HC? I mean he went 11-5 last yr and has them sitting at 6-3 this yr against a very tough schedule. That's not an incompetent HC.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Please point out where at any point I said I expected Savage to be a franchise QB. Hell forget franchise he didn't even work out as a backup QB.
What were your expectations of Savage?

He had a few good games as a backup QB and helped the team get to the playoffs. He would've started in the playoffs if not for being concussed. He exceeded my expectations for a 4th rd pick and certainly wasn't a bust. IMHO
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
What were your expectations of Savage?

He had a few good games as a backup QB and helped the team get to the playoffs. He would've started in the playoffs if not for being concussed. He exceeded my expectations for a 4th rd pick and certainly wasn't a bust. IMHO
My expectations were that after 3 years in the system then he would at least know the playbook and not look dazed and confused. Also saying he "helped the team get into the playoffs" is making his contributions sound greater than they were. He relieved Osweiler after the Jags had fully game planned and had Osweiler's number and even then it was 21-20 with him only completing 23 of 36 passes for 260 yards even though he was throwing to Hopkins. Next game he barely beat a helpless Bengals team and went 18 of 29 for 176 yards.

Fast forward to 2017 season and he doesn't even make it through the first game before being benched because he is getting killed out there. Then Watson goes down and its all downhill from there. If all that doesn't equal bust in your book then I don't know what does. Again I don't blame Savage for any of this, I blame BoB for either not helping him progress or not seeing that he couldn't even cut it as a backup QB.

Want further proof? Since being cut by the Texans Savage has signed and been cut within the same year by 4 different teams. They didn't need 3 years to see it, hell 49ers didn't even need 3 weeks, so why did BoB?
 

banned1976

American
Discussing is fine, evaluating his job as GM is premature at this point. A comprehensive evaluation of a GM really won’t start to come into focus until at least 2 years on the job. And it’s unlikely we’ll ever see 2 complete years of Bill O’Brien GM of the Houston Texans.

Yes, things look good now. We’re just past the halfway point in the season but so far it’s worked out pretty well. If the Texans win a Super Bowl this season, short term success is through the roof. Then the question becomes, do the Texans look more like the post SB Elway as GM of the Broncos team or like Belichick’s Pats?
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Care to share how he isn't a competent HC? I mean he went 11-5 last yr and has them sitting at 6-3 this yr against a very tough schedule. That's not an incompetent HC.
His incompetence is on display virtually every week. Slow starts, poor game planning, poor clock management, inability to scheme to his player's skill sets. 11-5 last year and 6-3 this year thanks to DW4 being the stud he is. If you looked at OB through the same lens you did for all those Rick Smith and Bob McNair years, it would be obvious to you.
 


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