I'm looking at the 22' draft class and how many of them missed significant playing time due to health issues. Stingley, Metchie, Pierce. Who else?
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Is it accurate to say that Houston was decimated by health issues in 22'?
- Thread starter Buckeye Homer
- Start date
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
Guys got hurt, but also were shut down to help the tank. Metchie was obviously different. I think if we were pushing for playoffs, Pierce, Stingley and Green would have played more. Green stayed in and played nicked up longer then all of them. Green and Stingley HAVE to step up and have a better year or that class is a waste
Was Stingley disappointing?
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
He did not play 8 games. Had 1 pick. Looks pretty good in coverage, but I cannot say he was even the best CB the Texans had last year due to availability and usage. I suspect he is their best man coverage corner, and will look even better in the next revision of defense here as we have better coaching and probably a better pass rush, but was he #3 overall pick worthy, not so far? Can he be, yup.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Stingley was complicated.
Everyone, or at least a lot of us, expected us to take Sauce.
Then we took Stingley and left Sauce for the Jets. Which was irritating. A lot of people were upset.
Then Sauce becomes DROY.
Stingley played really well, but it paled in comparison to Sauce and then he ended up injured.
Even with those injuries the Texans were in control for a good portion of most games. So our opponents were suffering from one thing or another just as much as we were.
so yeah you could say if we were healthier we would have won more games. At the same time we could say if our opponents were healthier we would have lost more games.
I think the best thing the Texans should have done, even though I denied it in the past, was dump Easterby years ago.
I think Brandon Cooks checking out & telephoning it in hurt our offense more than we’ll ever know.
banned1976
sleeper mode
I can only speak for myself, I don't expect Stingley to have a long career. To be blunt, I thought (and still think) it was a wasted pick and a reminder that the Texans front office and executive leadership should be looked upon with a healthy level of skepticism.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Sorry, but I can assure you that all of the aforementioned players had very legitimate injuries. They're playtime was not purposefully limited for tanking the season. In fact some played beyond when they should have.
The Jets also had the offensive rookie of the year with Garrett Wilson. I think it's fair to say the Jets won the 22' draft.
The Giants were also very happy. It will be interesting to look back at that draft in 3 years. Long term, the Texans may have had the best if everyone can stay healthy (big IF)
banned1976
sleeper mode
banned1976
sleeper mode
Not that I’m disagreeing with you JB, just curious. I honestly didn’t watch enough football last year to be too opinionated on the collective Texans 2022 draft. I just didn’t like the Stingley pick because of injuries. And he’s off to a dubious start.
You notice I said a big if? IF Stingley stays healthy, Green continues like he did before his injury, add in Pitre and Pierce and IF Metchie returns and lives up to his potential.
edit: I forgot to mention Harris who I think was an outstanding addition. Booker and Q TE should be good depth pieces
TxnsJuggernaut1
Veteran
I don't write off a rookie after a bad rookie season. Especially when that said rookie dealt with injuries limiting his level of play. Will Stingley end up considered a wasted pick? He very well may be but I am not giving up on the kid just yet.
banned1976
sleeper mode
I shouldn’t write him off either but I have. His injury plagued college career carries a lot of weight with me. Those injuries matter.
As always, I will happily eat a large amount of crow if I’m wrong about Stingley.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
I blame Caserio more than Stingley. He hasn’t had an injury free season now since 2019. Maybe you take a chance on a red flag like that later on in the draft, I just don’t think you do it at 3 overall.
TxnsJuggernaut1
Veteran
I get where you are coming from in regards to his injuries.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The Stingley pick was Cal's gift pick given to Lovie for becoming the new HC position. Cal essentially neutered Caserio with that pick....one of the reasons that the Caserio considered walking off. Not to even mention that Lovie would never accept advice from Caserio regarding changing his intractable ineffective methods...........all the while almost to the end with the total blessings of Cal.
Even if this is the case, to me it shows Caserio's inability to influence people & as a GM he should be able to win arguments while making the other think it was his own idea to begin with.
You say lisfranc & most of us laymen are weary. Then with Gardner right there, a blind man could have seen the "better" selection.
Add Stingley's availability the three prior years & Lovie picking him... I mean it shows the low intellect Caserio was up against & lost.
No way Caserio comes out of this unscathe in my mind. & I was one who wanted him here, even celebrated the hire.
badboy
Hall of Fame
The hurt players on field when they should not have been irritates me. I hope we do not see that wth Ryans.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Caserio and DeMeco seem to like and enjoy working with each other. I hope that is correct and continues.
banned1976
sleeper mode
And this makes me wonder how the early picks of the 2023 draft transpired. Were the mechanisms of the #2 pick and the trade to #3 made with Caserio's complete buy-in? Or was it Cal again?
That's because you think everything should be rainbows and unicorns and get upset when someone (Caserio) didn't do things the way you wanted. You think he should tell Cal to fvck off and that ain't happening... just my opinion
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Lisfranc makes you tired? OK. I mean, I guess I can see being tired of hearing about lisfranc injuries.
But hearing lisfranc injury related to a player makes me wary about signing them.
...
Sorry.
I had to be that guy.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Cause you do it so well?
I'm sure it looks that way to some of you, but that's not the case at all.
I didn't like drafting Mills in 2021, but I warmed to the idea. That's gone about as badly as it could.
I didn't like Culley, but I towed the line until after they fired Lovie.
I didn't like drafting Stingley, but didn't say anything until recently.
I've given the guy the benefit of the doubt & really now, after this offseason I think he's starting to look like a GM.
But if he can't convince a coach to stay away from a guy who suffered a Lisfranc & missed a good chunk of the previous 2 season with the 3rd overall pick with an equally good prospect right there with no red flags... c'mon. You know better.
"That was Lovie's pick" is a bs excuse that doesn't exonerate Caserio. Unicorns, rainbows be damned. I don't hate the pick as much as I hate this excuse.
I want to agree with you, but I know the McNairs are a meddlesome, hard-headed, stubborn arrogant bunch and Caserio has a job to do. He has to pick and choose his battles. Scouts were split on Stingley and team doctors gave the okay so why would Caserio try to over-rule the owner?
Everyone needs a hobby.
The Jets picked 4th and 10th so it's not like they pulled Gardner and Wilson out of the 6th rounds. But, often times top picks don't pan out but theirs came through big time.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
I don’t think Caserio speaks Cal’s language. I mean - Cal is a guy who gave OB the GM title, brought in Easterby, and almost hired McCown.
Caserio speaks word salad.
Maybe Caserio needed to put more croutons on his word salad when talking to McNair or draw him a picture. I don’t know.
But Cal seems the type that it doesn’t matter how much logic and science you use it won’t matter. That guy has to be sold. And if you are a word salad guy and not a salesman you aren’t going to have much success.
Why are y’all hung up on Cal? He’s got nothing to do with it. Once he tells Nick the 1st pick belongs to Lovie, Cal is out of it.
Lovie says, “I want the best CB in this draft.”
Then it’s on Caserio to convince him who the best CB is in the draft.
Personally I think Caserio convinced him to take Stingley because he’s the better man CB (you don’t draft a zone CB in the top 5). But that doesn’t fit the narrative. Lovie says, “He’s going to cover the best receiver.”
But plays Qtrs.
But Lovie said "I want Stingley"
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I believe Stingley’s Combine results clouded Lovie’s judgement. Coming off his foot injury and still not 100% healed…..Stingley did the unexpected by running a 4.37-40, then a 38.5” Vertical, and a 10’-2” Broad Jump.
Lovie wanted a Cover Corner who had the ability to play on an island. When Stingley was on the field, he showed that his potential was worth the pick. Lovie’s biggest mistake was running his foolish and ineffective Bend But Don’t Break defense…..especially with no ability to stop the run or get pressure on the QB. This defense, in no way, was going to make anyone look special. Pitre looked special, but he had no ducking reason to lead the team in tackles as Safety.
As for Gardner…..he was the top Zone Corner and the Jets defense fit his abilities perfectly. He enjoyed a great rookie season.
This is season 2 for Stingley, so I will hold out hope that Ryans will be the coach that gets the best out of Stingley and justify Lovie’s desire to draft him ahead of Gardner.
Lovie wanted a Cover Corner who had the ability to play on an island. When Stingley was on the field, he showed that his potential was worth the pick. Lovie’s biggest mistake was running his foolish and ineffective Bend But Don’t Break defense…..especially with no ability to stop the run or get pressure on the QB. This defense, in no way, was going to make anyone look special. Pitre looked special, but he had no ducking reason to lead the team in tackles as Safety.
As for Gardner…..he was the top Zone Corner and the Jets defense fit his abilities perfectly. He enjoyed a great rookie season.
This is season 2 for Stingley, so I will hold out hope that Ryans will be the coach that gets the best out of Stingley and justify Lovie’s desire to draft him ahead of Gardner.
I think Cal speaks word salad like an expert. Remember this quote from Cal about the Texans being a flatter organization.
"We've been really busy working on [team management] this offseason. It's a flatter organization with a faster management style. The organization is totally re-energized with a team-based approach and new leadership based on sub programs with each sub program being fully optimized as a goal."
If that is not a perfect example of 'word salad' or corporate doublespeak I don't know what is. It is very hard to believe the man is talking about a football team.
I 100% agree with you on Stingley. It was a wasted pick. It's also not terribly difficult to look decent in coverage when teams are running the ball down your throat.
That's opposite of the narrative in 2022. Gardner was a pure man coverage corner. Stingley was supposedly picked for his versatility.
One can hope all they want that Stingley will improve in year two. With his lis franc injury, we will see Schaub 2.0. Good starts to seasons, but as wear and tear increases, so will compensatory injuries. Chronic injuries do not just go away.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Terribly so, when you consider they could've drafted Charles Cross and then traded Tunsil this year for the Anderson pick, saving hundreds of millions in cap space and a #1 pick in 2024. Absolutely no foresight in the Kirby boardroom. Besides that compared to Sauce, Stingley has been a major blunder. The Kenyon Green pick doubled down on a dumb draft, but this is what the Cal McNair Texans do.
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TexansBull
Hall of Fame
And if Lovie didn’t say “I want the best CB in the draft” but insisted on a CB and said “I want Stingley” what is Caserio to do then?
Cal doesn’t get a pass. He gave the power to Lovie and stripped Caserio of control.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I keep hearing that Stingley's performance last season was due to him being in the wrong defensive system. The argument is that he was used as a cover CB, where as his strength was in a man system. The repeated stress on a Lisfranc foot with a cover CB (whose man is in front of him, giving him more time to react to change of direction) is much less than with a man CB who has to change direction on a dime (a sudden change.......many times repeated changes, controlled by the receiver). I watched him carefully last season, and when pushing off his Lisfranc foot, his reaction was definitely blunted as compared when needing to change direction pushing off of his opposite foot. That is why he was played most mostly on the right side, as opposed to being played on the side of the opponents' best receivers (as was emphasized so many times by Lovie.........i.e., we will always play him against the opponent's best receiver........he seldom followed the best receiver in games when they changed sides) I'll be interested in watching him this season, but I don't think that man will be his friend.
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Lovie's own words.
Porky
Hall of Fame
He is versatile. He can injure a foot one week, and then turn around and injure a shoulder the next week, if that isn’t versatility, I don’t know what is.
Dunta Robinson and Kevin Johnson also drafted in round 1, and also spent way too much time in the tub, especially the latter. Kareem Jackson is the only 1st rd corner this team has ever taken that’s had longevity in the NFL. If I had to guess, I’d say Sting is more likely to be Kevin instead of Kareem.
Dunta Robinson and Kevin Johnson also drafted in round 1, and also spent way too much time in the tub, especially the latter. Kareem Jackson is the only 1st rd corner this team has ever taken that’s had longevity in the NFL. If I had to guess, I’d say Sting is more likely to be Kevin instead of Kareem.
Cal
Are you into no excuses mode this year?
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Disagree
Caserio has to deal with meddlesome ownership, make no mistake, he's going to do whatever Cal, Hannah want him to do to keep cashing those checks. He's got 26 million reasons to think this way and I can't say that I blame him.
Except Lovie worked out Sauce, Stingley and gave his recommendations. Caserio never went to a workout of either Sauce or Stingley. Now Caserio did workout Woolen and he didn't pick him, so there is that.
I want to see if they can stay healthy and perform well in year 2 before I come to this conclusion. But 2024 is the yr of no more excuses for the Texans org.
Which is why it seemed like Caserio wanted to exit Kirby, but didn't because 36 mil.
IMO, and I have no facts to really back this up, trading the picks to get WA was the cost of doing business to get the guy Caserio really wanted after drafting CJ. The Texans got potential cornerstone players on both sides of the ball. Job well done IMO. We'll see how it works out. Hoping for the best.