Is David Carr all that bad?

[michaelm]

I was not sure if you were a Carr naysayer as well, so I spoke for the naysayer nation without really having any mandate to do so.

Dude...
come on, tell the truth...
you just like saying naysayer, don't you...?

That's ok, I like Tenacious D too!

"you're always ****ing naysaying!" LOL

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Dude...
come on, tell the truth...
you just like saying naysayer, don't you...?

That's ok, I like Tenacious D too!

"you're always ****ing naysaying!" LOL

I like to say naysayer and a fan of the D. Saw them in Australia December 2004 with the Wilson Brothers. Pretty cool night.

Back on topic, Carr is not as good as his current contract and pending extension.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Reggie bush is great too, but he won't handle the ball each down. so, he won't make an overall difference. once again, that is just an opinion.

Okay, so we should only draft Centers and QBs!!!! They are the only two players who touch the ball on each down, so they are the only one's who can make a difference.

I couldn't resist!

 

[jerek]

The fact is he has had 4 years to show signs of improvement. Not in the W-L column but in the decision making coloumn.

Is the O-line that bad, really? Or does he make them look that bad. How is it that 5 guys and all their backups can runblock like horses but all those guys collectively can't pass block worth a lick. You would almost have to plan that. The 1st O-ine sure was horrible but this years wasn't yet they are getting alot the blame for the 68 sax. That's crap considering that the 1st ever O-line we had gave up 76 sax. They are not that bad. Carr and his decision making is bad, Great QB skills, Bad QB mind. Yet the staff seems deadset on keeping him around 3 more years.

If you or me anyone else had that kind of boss, then we would walk in his office and piss in the corner cuz we knew that nothing would happen to us. Imagine a new company offers you a job as sales manager from a sales position with a different company (smaller) from, hmmm let's say Fresno CA.

OK year 1 expectations low but 1st week on the job you land a big client (beat Dallas). The rest of the year goes as planned and your new boss is happy but expects to see more. 4-12

OK year 2 you make another splash on the scene in your first week (beat Miami in Miami) but the rest of the year goes as planned on the under side of "as planned". Not to mention you missed most of the middle part of the year due to injury and your asst sales mng (Banks) held down the fort awfully well and actually landed a new client (beat Panthers, eventual SB team later on that year) and almost landed another (SB winning Pats had to take us to OT in order to win). You had a courageous effort coming back to work early and landing a big client (Falcons, with a just as injured as Carr was Vick) but only pulled 1 or 2 more clients by years end. 5-11

OK season 3 and you are making remarkable progress, you actually get enough money to get a haircut (back to back wins finnally thanx in large part to Colemen, the loser). The year is going as planned and you project to your boss that you might make qouta, break even (the possibilty of going .500). Yet you finish with falling short once again and you work mates (fans) are getting fed up (booing you when you come back on the field after an injury that sends Banks back to the bench). Sason a failure 7-9

OK season 4, after demanding that your other bosses change things up for you you fall flat on your face actually doing collectively worse than you did in your 1st year as sales manager. Echoes thru the halls and cubicles are that maybe the big office, big job, big pay, big city, etc are too much and are not cut out for it. But one of the guys that hired you say that it isn't your fault and fires one of your workmates in an attempt to help you get better but you still get worse an worse. The abilityis there, but it seems as the heart isn't, it seems that you are comfy with the base salary and that the bonus $$ is just extra but not needed. Season a failure, 2-14

In the real world, contract or not, we'd be canned in a minute, on the mere fact that we would keep breeding that losing attitude if we were to stick around. Heck some of us would get the call to just not show back up and our things will be mailed to us.

This is just a lame reason for the team to not look like they made a bad decision. It's gonna take a while to become a playoff team, is McNair gonna re-up his contract after the 3 yr option is up to the tune of 5 year 80 mill if still don't have a playoff appearance? If so then we've got issues, if not the who's the QB, can we have Henson back (J/K)

For the one thousandth time, there is a substantial difference between run blocking and pass blocking:

(1) Push forward vs. drop backward
(2) RB finds a hole and is gone (~1 sec) vs. block until ball is let go of (>1 sec)

Your highly speculative and vaguely analogous "enlightened" business model aside - which I will not analyze further lest I be kicked off the board - I could construct a counter version of the tale that would place the majority (note I use: majority, not "all") of the blame exactly where it belongs: bad management (leadership), inept IT/office services (don't give you the tools you need to succeed), budget cuts, etc. etc. etc. I could construct a very compelling scenario but it would be a waste of my time since the story doesn't end with "draft Vince Young."

And wtf is this ("This is just a lame reason for the team to not look like they made a bad decision") ... honestly? With all of you UT folk screaming for blood if we don't draft Vince ... if McNair and Co. were convinced that Carr was a mistake, wouldn't this be the absolute best time to phase him out, draft Young instead? ... Cave to the Vince Young fanset and say, look at us, we want to bring a championship to Houston, we're here for the fans, bla bla bla bla bla? Are you telling me that McNair made his multi millions selling **** nobody wanted? Study that aspect of Business in marketing 101?

Or is McNair honestly convinced that winning will put fans in the seats, and accordingly, he is honestly convinced that Carr is going to be the QB that will help bring us there?

 

[bigTEXan8]

For the one thousandth time, there is a substantial difference between run blocking and pass blocking:

(1) Push forward vs. drop backward
(2) RB finds a hole and is gone (~1 sec) vs. block until ball is let go of (>1 sec)

Your highly speculative and vaguely analogous "enlightened" business model aside - which I will not analyze further lest I be kicked off the board - I could construct a counter version of the tale that would place the majority (note I use: majority, not "all") of the blame exactly where it belongs: bad management (leadership), inept IT/office services (don't give you the tools you need to succeed), budget cuts, etc. etc. etc. I could construct a very compelling scenario but it would be a waste of my time since the story doesn't end with "draft Vince Young."

And wtf is this ("This is just a lame reason for the team to not look like they made a bad decision") ... honestly? With all of you UT folk screaming for blood if we don't draft Vince ... if McNair and Co. were convinced that Carr was a mistake, wouldn't this be the absolute best time to phase him out, draft Young instead? ... Cave to the Vince Young fanset and say, look at us, we want to bring a championship to Houston, we're here for the fans, bla bla bla bla bla? Are you telling me that McNair made his multi millions selling **** nobody wanted? Study that aspect of Business in marketing 101?

Or is McNair honestly convinced that winning will put fans in the seats, and accordingly, he is honestly convinced that Carr is going to be the QB that will help bring us there?

YEAH!!! for jerek. I can't give you anymore props, but solid post. You speak the truth brotha!

 

[MightyTExan]

Carr will be fine. Most Carr haters only focus on his negatives, which all QB's have. Does anyone have examples of anything he's done right? I've seen a lot through these past 4 years, and I think it outweighs the negatives. For example:2 50 TD passes in one game? I don't know about you, but that's firggin' awesome.

 

[Koolbrz]

The fact is he has had 4 years to show signs of improvement. Not in the W-L column but in the decision making coloumn.

Is the O-line that bad, really? Or does he make them look that bad. How is it that 5 guys and all their backups can runblock like horses but all those guys collectively can't pass block worth a lick. You would almost have to plan that. The 1st O-ine sure was horrible but this years wasn't yet they are getting alot the blame for the 68 sax. That's crap considering that the 1st ever O-line we had gave up 76 sax. They are not that bad. Carr and his decision making is bad, Great QB skills, Bad QB mind. Yet the staff seems deadset on keeping him around 3 more years.

If you or me anyone else had that kind of boss, then we would walk in his office and piss in the corner cuz we knew that nothing would happen to us. Imagine a new company offers you a job as sales manager from a sales position with a different company (smaller) from, hmmm let's say Fresno CA.

OK year 1 expectations low but 1st week on the job you land a big client (beat Dallas). The rest of the year goes as planned and your new boss is happy but expects to see more. 4-12

OK year 2 you make another splash on the scene in your first week (beat Miami in Miami) but the rest of the year goes as planned on the under side of "as planned". Not to mention you missed most of the middle part of the year due to injury and your asst sales mng (Banks) held down the fort awfully well and actually landed a new client (beat Panthers, eventual SB team later on that year) and almost landed another (SB winning Pats had to take us to OT in order to win). You had a courageous effort coming back to work early and landing a big client (Falcons, with a just as injured as Carr was Vick) but only pulled 1 or 2 more clients by years end. 5-11

OK season 3 and you are making remarkable progress, you actually get enough money to get a haircut (back to back wins finnally thanx in large part to Colemen, the loser). The year is going as planned and you project to your boss that you might make qouta, break even (the possibilty of going .500). Yet you finish with falling short once again and you work mates (fans) are getting fed up (booing you when you come back on the field after an injury that sends Banks back to the bench). Sason a failure 7-9

OK season 4, after demanding that your other bosses change things up for you you fall flat on your face actually doing collectively worse than you did in your 1st year as sales manager. Echoes thru the halls and cubicles are that maybe the big office, big job, big pay, big city, etc are too much and are not cut out for it. But one of the guys that hired you say that it isn't your fault and fires one of your workmates in an attempt to help you get better but you still get worse an worse. The abilityis there, but it seems as the heart isn't, it seems that you are comfy with the base salary and that the bonus $$ is just extra but not needed. Season a failure, 2-14

In the real world, contract or not, we'd be canned in a minute, on the mere fact that we would keep breeding that losing attitude if we were to stick around. Heck some of us would get the call to just not show back up and our things will be mailed to us.

This is just a lame reason for the team to not look like they made a bad decision. It's gonna take a while to become a playoff team, is McNair gonna re-up his contract after the 3 yr option is up to the tune of 5 year 80 mill if still don't have a playoff appearance? If so then we've got issues, if not the who's the QB, can we have Henson back (J/K)

What games have you been watching this yr? Carr had what, maybe 2 1/2 seconds to do something with the ball almost all yr. That is until Reeves showed up. Funny how the line started to play. Pass blocking was horrible this yr. no matter what anyone says. The best line we had was last yr. i believe. Only had 48 sacks. Not bad considering it still was not a really great line. Look at things this way. Your on an assembly line were you have to pull a bottle from the line, look it over make sure it's not cracked, slap a label on it, and put it back all in 2 1/2 seconds. It's just not gonna happen. You know football, how do you expect a QB to get the snap, drop back make his 1st 2nd and maybe 3rd read in 2 1/2 seconds. Manning could not pull this off. Of course the guy is gonna be gun shy and want to get rid of the ball in a hurry, maybe even run with it ala VY. The things you are talking about can be fixed with better coaching, better line, and a better reciever to complement AJ. Look at who he had to throw the ball too. Gaffney, Bradford...please!! With the exception of AJ the other WR's are not that great. They couldn't catch the ball when needed, and the majority of the time Carr was runnning for his life. Everyone attacked there weakness this yr. and blitzed. Enough said

 

[Big B Texan Fan]

koolbrz and bigtexan8 and jerek-

1st off jerek, i know that run blocking and pss blocking are 2 different thing, just funny how 5 guys and all their backups can only do one and not the other. Go back and read the post.

koolbrz and bigtexan8- you can quit the post-nuzzlin' of jerek when he comes up with a miraculous come back on me that he probably gets off the radio or reads in a magazine or something. Me and him have a bet going and the 2 of us are probably gonna duke it out until the 04/29 all the way up until the saints go on the clock.

Back to you jerek. If I owned a big business and had all the tools, limited they may be, in the business world but all the departments were iffy at best, I'd be looking for the leader of my team to at least make progress at least. If any decension were to take place then it had better be minimal. Very disimilar to what carr has shown.

 

[TEXANFAN23435]

I'm sorry Big B Texan Fan but this David Carr bashing has got to be founded on all the stats, not just the stats that say his numbers went down this past season. Please help me out here, take the Top 6 QB's (Based on the QB Rating System) from the 2004 season and put them in Carr's place for the 2005 season and which of them would have improved on their QB Rating???

I mean it should be fairly easy to improve on your QB Rating..... when AJ misses enough games to contribute a total of 650+ receiving yards and a whopping 2TD's for the season. Then you have a MASH Unit as RB's with no one capable of staying healthy enough to reach a 1,000 yards rushing and by the way, exactly which one of our "running wounded", (STUD RB"s) would force any NFL Defense to respect our running game??? And, oh yes!!! Our awesome OL, who was so busy passing out "Sack Our QB Tickets" to opposing defenses that they plum forgot their blocking assignments. Oh, by the way, they managed to hand out a lot more tickets than just the 68 winners.

So Big B Texan Fan, find me a legitimate QB who would improve his QB rating over his 2004 season, playing in place of Carr for the 2005 season. Your answer and reasoning are much anticipated.

 

[jerek]

koolbrz and bigtexan8 and jerek-

1st off jerek, i know that run blocking and pss blocking are 2 different thing, just funny how 5 guys and all their backups can only do one and not the other. Go back and read the post.

koolbrz and bigtexan8- you can quit the post-nuzzlin' of jerek when he comes up with a miraculous come back on me that he probably gets off the radio or reads in a magazine or something. Me and him have a bet going and the 2 of us are probably gonna duke it out until the 04/29 all the way up until the saints go on the clock.

Back to you jerek. If I owned a big business and had all the tools, limited they may be, in the business world but all the departments were iffy at best, I'd be looking for the leader of my team to at least make progress at least. If any decension were to take place then it had better be minimal. Very disimilar to what carr has shown.

The lowest of low shots! Now you are accusing me of plagarizing some dip**** on the radio or some magazine? Has it come to that? All of my comebacks are 100% homegrown.

Hope you plan on honoring that bet.

 

[Big B Texan Fan]

Hope you plan on honoring that bet.

I'm already saving for it in case it comes that. Leading up to the draft we need to figure out a way to get one another paid.

 

[Big B Texan Fan]

I'm sorry Big B Texan Fan but this David Carr bashing has got to be founded on all the stats, not just the stats that say his numbers went down this past season. Please help me out here, take the Top 6 QB's (Based on the QB Rating System) from the 2004 season and put them in Carr's place for the 2005 season and which of them would have improved on their QB Rating???

I mean it should be fairly easy to improve on your QB Rating..... when AJ misses enough games to contribute a total of 650+ receiving yards and a whopping 2TD's for the season. Then you have a MASH Unit as RB's with no one capable of staying healthy enough to reach a 1,000 yards rushing and by the way, exactly which one of our "running wounded", (STUD RB"s) would force any NFL Defense to respect our running game??? And, oh yes!!! Our awesome OL, who was so busy passing out "Sack Our QB Tickets" to opposing defenses that they plum forgot their blocking assignments. Oh, by the way, they managed to hand out a lot more tickets than just the 68 winners.

So Big B Texan Fan, find me a legitimate QB who would improve his QB rating over his 2004 season, playing in place of Carr for the 2005 season. Your answer and reasoning are much anticipated.

Do you watch the games or does your daddy read you a box score before he tucks you in t night.
I don't care too much for stats when my team is losing, I'm looking for a strong finish, a finish that would make the team, the city, and the owners proud to call themselves a part of the organization. Not some lame duck squandering in th last week of the season 2 seasons in a row. One season had the promise of not having a losing record yet we lost to one of the worst teams in the league and the next was the season that all we needed to do finish with a win and beat the team that had the #1 in last years draft and avoid the #1 pick ourselves.
Look, I've supported carr ever since he came and think he's a classy guy, with good christian values and would want either of my boys to grow to be like him, but when it comes to football and what I perceive as good football instincts, he's lacking. Not because he cannot play, just that I believe he cannot pull it off in this town, he's never gonna live up to the hype he was much less any other QB in the upcoming draft with the name Lienert, Cutler and Young. Forget the o-line and the injuries for a minute. The Pats keep plugging in guys (including Brady when Bledsoe went down) and they keep winning/stay in contention for a playoff spot every year the past 4 years although they fell a game or two short after their 1st SB win. His O-line guys were practically nobodies and they were the same guys that got Bledsoe murdered yet they were able to get Brady to a SB (or at least to a playoff game where the infamous "tuck rule" happened and kept that SB win a possibility). Is that coaching or is it the will to win with a leader who will guide his team to victory, even with his predeccessor on the bench watching. The following season Bledsoe was gone.
So I guess to answer you question, Brady is one.
Besides, most coaches that get a new team usually gets a new/different QB right away. The list is more than twice as long as the other as far coaches switching QB's ince the inception of free-agency and the salary cap.
Am I carr bashing, yes....
Do I want a change, yes....
Do I think carr can be successful elsewhere, yes.....
Do I like Bush or the thought of trading down, yes....
Would I rather have VY more than Bush or trade down, yes...
Does stats mean anything to me, yes.... (don't know why I added that)
I just don't want to see us keep a guy for the sake of not wanting to look bad and like we don't know what we're doing draft wise. IMHO that's what keeping carr will make me think and feel. Why stop at the coaches when it comes time to pass blame, the players on the field are the ones whoe either get it done or not.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Do you watch the games or does your daddy read you a box score before he tucks you in t night.

I don't care too much for stats when my team is losing

Look who's behaving like a child...That is really uncalled for. Since stats don't matter when you lose, then you shouldn't care about our W/L record because it is a stat.

Goodnight.

 

[Big B Texan Fan]

Look who's behaving like a child...That is really uncalled for. Since stats don't matter when you lose, then you shouldn't care about our W/L record because it is a stat.

Goodnight.

The W/L record is a RECORD
Stats are stats:
Main Entry: sta·tis·tics
Pronunciation: st&-'tis-tiks
Function: noun plural but singular or plural in construction
Etymology: German Statistik study of political facts and figures, from New Latin statisticus of politics, from Latin status state
1 : a branch of mathematics dealing with the collection, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of masses of numerical data
2 : a collection of quantitative data

Sorry but I had to go Websters on ya.

 

[thunderkyss]

What games have you been watching this yr? Carr had what, maybe 2 1/2 seconds to do something with the ball almost all yr. That is until Reeves showed up. Funny how the line started to play. Pass blocking was horrible this yr. no matter what anyone says.

So you think Carr must've said something at halftime to Peeve the O-line off again?? hmm.... wonder what he said to make all five guys not want to protect him........... their leader.

 

[thunderkyss]

The Pats keep plugging in guys (including Brady when Bledsoe went down)....
......His O-line guys were practically nobodies and they were the same guys that got Bledsoe murdered yet they were able to get Brady to a SB (or at least to a playoff game where the infamous "tuck rule" happened and kept that SB win a possibility). Is that coaching or is it the will to win with a leader who will guide his team to victory, even with his predeccessor on the bench watching. The following season Bledsoe was gone.
So I guess to answer you question, Brady is one.

I thought Brunnel was a god in Jacksonville, but he couldn't stay on his feet either. Got hurt two games into the season(I think it had something to do with that "not being able to stay on his feet" problem) the Rookie who was too raw for the NFL came in and wooped ****....... so that's two.. And Leftwich's numbers aren't really better than Carr's, and their rushing offense only avg's 9 more yards per game.

so that's two.

 

[Sam_24]

After reading all of your post and seeing that your O-line is really good in run blocking schemes. I really dont see Gary Kubiak making much changes there, he loves to run the ball even in the 3rd and long situations.
I think he'll more less convince Mcnair to let him trade away David Carr and bring in another vet QB along with draft VY.
Also I dont follow the Texans to much but it sounds like David isnt to durable, I think he'd be great in the right situation he just needs to relax and make better decisions. Im not saying that its his fault for being sacked so many times, maybe alot of has to do the O-line but if they are that good in run blocking, there arent gonna be to many changes there.

 

[thegr8fan]

I mean it should be fairly easy to improve on your QB Rating..... when AJ misses enough games to contribute a total of 650+ receiving yards and a whopping 2TD's for the season. Then you have a MASH Unit as RB's with no one capable of staying healthy enough to reach a 1,000 yards rushing and by the way, exactly which one of our "running wounded", (STUD RB"s) would force any NFL Defense to respect our running game??? And, oh yes!!! Our awesome OL, who was so busy passing out "Sack Our QB Tickets" to opposing defenses that they plum forgot their blocking assignments. Oh, by the way, they managed to hand out a lot more tickets than just the 68 winners.

this post is hilarious in its ignorance.

yeah, must have been all those games AJ missed for the reason his numbers were down, couldn't have possibly had anything at all to do with Carr and his poor playing. All we gotta do to fix that is tape up AJ some more, figure out how to get him under center so he can both pass AND catch the ball more.

which one of our RB's would "force any NFL Defense to respect our running game", only every team we played. Yeah it is that awesome passing game that dictated 8 men in the box to protect against DD, who almost STILL got another 1000 yds this season.

As for our O-line, yeah they could have done better, and should have. But not all of the bad playing goes on them either, alot of it goes back to (ding, ding, ding) Carr and his lack of ability to read a defense and know when a blitz was coming so he could get the ball out.

But hey, keep blaming everything but the problem, Carr. I am sure when the entire team is changed, including the coach's, and Carr is still playing poorly we will try and maybe change the OWNER next, or something.

 

[thegr8fan]

Also I dont follow the Texans to much but it sounds like David isnt to durable,

even I, as much as I dislike Carr's lack of playing ability, have to say I am somewhat amazed by Carr's durability. He manages to get up time after time, and he deserves many props for that.

Durability is NOT one of his faults, but one of his strengths.

 

[Jack Bauer]

The W/L record is a RECORD
Stats are stats:
Main Entry: sta·tis·tics
Pronunciation: st&-'tis-tiks
Function: noun plural but singular or plural in construction
Etymology: German Statistik study of political facts and figures, from New Latin statisticus of politics, from Latin status state
1 : a branch of mathematics dealing with the collection, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of masses of numerical data
2 : a collection of quantitative data

Sorry but I had to go Websters on ya.

Collection of quantitative data. Do you know what quantitative means? One definition is relating to number. How many wins did the Texans have last year? 2. That is quantitative data. You also define a stat as the collection and analysis of numerical data. The Texans won 12.5% of their games this year. They did not win very many games. I have collected their win total versus their total number of games and analyzed the number. This is a stat. Do I need to go on???

 

[cadahnic]

Wow this thread has become a childish patchwork of attacks and ignorant rhetoric. Guys just discuss the thread, insert your VY or Bush comments as you see fit and back them up with like Jack Bauer said Quantitative data. Like that word used it alot in financial management and advanced financial statistics class. BTW Jerek and Big B you guys need to settle down and J.S. if you win the bet I want a quarter to throw at someone.

 

[michaelm]

Guys just discuss the thread, insert your VY or Bush comments as you see fit and back them up with like Jack Bauer said Quantitative data.

Actually, this thread started out as a David Carr thread, but as usual evloved into a RB/VY thread...

 

[TEXANFAN23435]

Let's see, I'm really going to hate my self. Since several posters are so eager to turn each post into their "I want VY post".... Had the great (With no QB's his equal.) VY declared for last year's draft, how many of you VY homers would have demanded the Texans to rid themselves of DC in favor of drafting VY for the 2005 season??? Heck, where is Jiminey Cricket when you need him.

What I'm most concearned about is the learning curve VY will have to endure in reading defensive pass coverages pulling out from under center. That is a totally different game and at this time I don't see any NFL team willing to adjust their offensive schemes to include Shotgun Formations 90% of the time. At the NFL level, VY is going to have to re-learn the QB position. Owners, GM's and HC's do not want to invest millions into a QB who relies more on his legs than his ability to read defenses ( maybe the NYJ will!!!). I make this statement based on MV's failure to improve his game or his teams ability to win. As soon as the MV novelty at the QB position wore off and NFL defenses decided to shadow him with a containment style defense his inability to read most defensive coverages became his glaring weakness. For the record, I will say MV will become an absolute bust as a QB if he doesn't start working on how to read defenses.

Now, if this truely is DC's weakness and he is solely responsible for the collapse of the Texans (Still can't figure out why they fired Capers, it's very appearant it wasn't CC or his fault.) then I say go ahead and trade him (I like this opinion best of all) to the Miami Dolphins for Ricky Williams and whatever pick they are willing to throw in. With our #1 pick, I take Matt Leinert, NOT VY, because ML has played in an NFL style offense, since we no longer have a QB we will need one that can start right away, he has played under center, can make all the throws, has pocket smarts, has escapabilty speed that is good for 5 to 10 yard runs when all else fails and has played a meaningful game against opposing teams who treated the game as their Bowl Game in every one of his starts!!! This guy's success as a QB in the NFL will happen even quicker than Carson Palmer's.

 

[jim rome]

I am so tired of this conversation if someone with kubes stats says Carr is a good qb who the hell are you people to say he isnt what you know more about football than him. Yea thats why yall are ac techs and mechs and truck drivers and he is an nfl coach. sometimes you need to step back and let the people who know what their doing do the job, and not sit there and act like you could do better! If you were so good how many of these nfl teams with out a coach this offseason interviewed you?

 

[infantrycak]

I am so tired of this conversation if someone with kubes stats says Carr is a good qb who the hell are you people to say he isnt what you know more about football than him. Yea thats why yall are ac techs and mechs and truck drivers and he is an nfl coach. sometimes you need to step back and let the people who know what their doing do the job, and not sit there and act like you could do better! If you were so good how many of these nfl teams with out a coach this offseason interviewed you?

There is something to the proposition that Reeves/Kubiack have better judgment than the average fan, but condescending to the entire MB is an unwise and ineffective way to get your point across.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

I am so tired of this conversation if someone with kubes stats says Carr is a good qb who the hell are you people to say he isnt what you know more about football than him. Yea thats why yall are ac techs and mechs and truck drivers and he is an nfl coach. sometimes you need to step back and let the people who know what their doing do the job, and not sit there and act like you could do better! If you were so good how many of these nfl teams with out a coach this offseason interviewed you?

If the real Jim rome made this statement, i would at least be comfortable that his tongue was some version of planted in his cheek. I have never done any of those jobs, but in the big scheme of things those guys; mechanics, AC techs, and truck drivers are a heck alot more important that any football coach to most of the planet.

 

[jerek]

If the real Jim rome made this statement, i would at lest be comfortable that his tongue was some version of planted in his cheek. I have neve done any of those jobs, but in the bid scheme of things those guys mechanics, AC techs, and truck drivers are a heck alot more important that any football coach to most of the planet.

You think?

I too find it difficult to manuever this board at times, some of the threads make me laugh and others, I just shake my head in disbelief. But isn't discussion and opinion the point of the board?

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Never underestimate the imagination of a Texan's fan.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

You think?

I too find it difficult to manuever this board at times, some of the threads make me laugh and others, I just shake my head in disbelief. But isn't discussion and opinion the point of the board?

Hey, its been a warm winter. I may be needing one of the AC techs who post here sooner than later

 

[Koolbrz]

So you think Carr must've said something at halftime to Peeve the O-line off again?? hmm.... wonder what he said to make all five guys not want to protect him........... their leader.

Sorry guy, Carr did not have to say anything! The O-Line just plain out sux!! I don't care if you put Brady, Manning, or any of the top rated QB's in the league behind this line. THEY WILL NOT HAVE A PRODUCTIVE YR. What makes you think VY could play behind this line. His running ability? Guess what he will be another M. Vick, R. Cunningham, K. Stewart...etc...etc...etc... He can not throw the ball deep cause it looks like a wounded duck, and NFL defenses will put a beating on him. I just don't see anyone having much sucess behind this line.

 

[Koolbrz]

koolbrz and bigtexan8 and jerek-

1st off jerek, i know that run blocking and pss blocking are 2 different thing, just funny how 5 guys and all their backups can only do one and not the other. Go back and read the post.

koolbrz and bigtexan8- you can quit the post-nuzzlin' of jerek when he comes up with a miraculous come back on me that he probably gets off the radio or reads in a magazine or something. Me and him have a bet going and the 2 of us are probably gonna duke it out until the 04/29 all the way up until the saints go on the clock.

Back to you jerek. If I owned a big business and had all the tools, limited they may be, in the business world but all the departments were iffy at best, I'd be looking for the leader of my team to at least make progress at least. If any decension were to take place then it had better be minimal. Very disimilar to what carr has shown.

Sorry Dude i'm not post-nuzzlin with anyone

 

[thunderkyss]

Sorry guy, Carr did not have to say anything! The O-Line just plain out sux!! I don't care if you put Brady, Manning, or any of the top rated QB's in the league behind this line. THEY WILL NOT HAVE A PRODUCTIVE YR. What makes you think VY could play behind this line. His running ability? Guess what he will be another M. Vick, R. Cunningham, K. Stewart...etc...etc...etc... He can not throw the ball deep cause it looks like a wounded duck, and NFL defenses will put a beating on him. I just don't see anyone having much sucess behind this line.

Well see, my post was in response to someone saying that Carr had an excellent half, against the Rams.... scored 24 points.... my question, is what happened to them in the second half?? Why were they blocking for him the first half, but not the second??

Now, you're saying that Vince wouldn't be able to get to the sideline?? Whaa.... the thing that makes Vince different from David, is that once he gets out of the pocket, your chances are better, that he'll do something with the ball, other than take it out of bounds with him. Sure, David made some plays while on the move, but admit it... it's not his strong suit, and there are many times you wish he'd have just chunked it out of bounds. Say what you want, Vince can get it done from the pocket, and if he has to he's better outside the pocket, than David is.

How long does it take Carr to get to the sideline?? What are the odds that a reciever had gotten open in that time??

 

[Koolbrz]

Well see, my post was in response to someone saying that Carr had an excellent half, against the Rams.... scored 24 points.... my question, is what happened to them in the second half?? Why were they blocking for him the first half, but not the second??

Now, you're saying that Vince wouldn't be able to get to the sideline?? Whaa.... the thing that makes Vince different from David, is that once he gets out of the pocket, your chances are better, that he'll do something with the ball, other than take it out of bounds with him. Sure, David made some plays while on the move, but admit it... it's not his strong suit, and there are many times you wish he'd have just chunked it out of bounds. Say what you want, Vince can get it done from the pocket, and if he has to he's better outside the pocket, than David is.

All i'm saying is that noone even VY could possibly play behind this line. You have to admit VY does need a lil work with his throwing. Not hating on the guy just a fact. There is no doubt in mind he is a great athlete as is MV. Tell me how many SB's has he won. They are the same type of player. We would be to predictable with VY at QB cause you would have to be in shotgun formation about 90% of the time in order to benefit from his abilities. He needs to learn how to read defense's and develope that arm. Lookin at 3-4 yrs before you can see what he might be able to really do. Honeymoon will be over by then and there will be many PO fans!

 

[vtech9]

I am so tired of this conversation if someone with kubes stats says Carr is a good qb who the hell are you people to say he isnt what you know more about football than him. Yea thats why yall are ac techs and mechs and truck drivers and he is an nfl coach. sometimes you need to step back and let the people who know what their doing do the job, and not sit there and act like you could do better! If you were so good how many of these nfl teams with out a coach this offseason interviewed you?

Kubiak basically said what most of the Carr bashers on here have been saying for a long time. Kubiak stated that he thinks Carr can be successful in the NFL but that Carr needs alot of work. Most of us believe that Carr has the potential and the physical ability to be a successful NFL QB. Nobody is denying that, but he just hasn't shown that he has the mental capacity to be successful. He doesn't have very good pocket presence, and he doesn't make the best decisions. Some of you keep saying that he doesn't have any other WR's to throw it to. What good would it do to have another stud WR on the field if Carr never looks to them? Carr stares down his 1st option, so any other WR's on the field, no matter who they are, wouldn't make that much difference because if they weren't the 1st option, they probably wouldn't get looked at anyway.

 

[Koolbrz]

Kubiak basically said what most of the Carr bashers on here have been saying for a long time. Kubiak stated that he thinks Carr can be successful in the NFL but that Carr needs alot of work. Most of us believe that Carr has the potential and the physical ability to be a successful NFL QB. Nobody is denying that, but he just hasn't shown that he has the mental capacity to be successful. He doesn't have very good pocket presence, and he doesn't make the best decisions. Some of you keep saying that he doesn't have any other WR's to throw it to. What good would it do to have another stud WR on the field if Carr never looks to them? Carr stares down his 1st option, so any other WR's on the field, no matter who they are, wouldn't make that much difference because if they weren't the 1st option, they probably wouldn't get looked at anyway.

Do you in all honesty believe he had the time to look at his 2nd and 3rd options this yr, and i do believe the coaching he was recieving was not all that great.

 

[powerfuldragon]

yup. if i'd eaten as much well-manicured turf as carr had the last few years, there wouldn't even be a 2nd or 3rd option. snap and throw, no drop, no nothing.

 

[jmerog]

If nothing else,he is certainly durable. He should get some kind of stud points for still playing,game after game, after the licking he has taken for four years.

 

[vtech9]

Do you in all honesty believe he had the time to look at his 2nd and 3rd options this yr, and i do believe the coaching he was recieving was not all that great.

Yes, I do. If you knew anything about QB's you wouldn't have asked this question. In a 3-step drop, once that third step hits ground, the QB is supposed to fire the ball or look to his next option if his 1st option is covered. Carr would not do this. If Carr's 1st option was covered, he would hold the ball and stare at his 1st option until he got hit or panicked and ran.

If you have copies of any of the games, watch how Carr takes the snap and immediately focuses on his 1st option. Watch and you will see how he never takes his eyes off of him. As a QB, you just can't do that if you want to be successful. You can get away with it in high school, and you can sometimes get away with it in college. Carr did get away with it for the most part in college. He had more time in college to stare down his WR's and wait for someone to come open because of the talent of the teams he played against. I remember seeing this while watching him play in college, but I thought that NFL coaching could take care of that. I saw that Carr had the physical abilities to be a star QB in the NFL, and didn't care about his shortcomings because I believed our coaches could correct them. I was wrong. Carr has been in the league for 4 years and he still has the same problems.

 

[Samer]

No he isnt that bad, no QB is good if they spend that much time on their behind, not even Peyton Manning, give the guy credit for not quitting and played through the harsh OLine

 

[TreWardTxn]

All i'm saying is that noone even VY could possibly play behind this line. You have to admit VY does need a lil work with his throwing. Not hating on the guy just a fact. There is no doubt in mind he is a great athlete as is MV. Tell me how many SB's has he won. They are the same type of player. We would be to predictable with VY at QB cause you would have to be in shotgun formation about 90% of the time in order to benefit from his abilities. He needs to learn how to read defense's and develope that arm. Lookin at 3-4 yrs before you can see what he might be able to really do. Honeymoon will be over by then and there will be many PO fans!

OK, if VY needs work on his "throwing" which includes reading defenses, mechanics, etc...then YOU have to admit that Carr needs those same adjustments, Kubiak himself has said so. The arm strength argument has little bearing, if Brady (knocked for having weak arm strength out of college) and Chad Pennington can play in this league (sans shoulder injuries) then so can Young. He CAN throw the deep out, and the deep ball are some of his best throws. Vick and VY are incomparable in that Young is 6'5'' with greater pocket prescence and did not run a TRUE option offense in college like Vick did. Vick did not throw the ball nearly as much; if you don't believe me, check the stats. So what do we really have here; an upcoming 5th year player who needs all the work with reading defenses, pocket presence, and leadership ability, or a potential ROOKIE, who while needs work with defense and presence, already possesses greater athletiscism and PROVEN leadership ability...Now, without taking names into consideration, which player woudl you rather have on your team?

 

[Waltman]

Here we go

 

[thunderkyss]

yup. if i'd eaten as much well-manicured turf as carr had the last few years, there wouldn't even be a 2nd or 3rd option. snap and throw, no drop, no nothing.

there were some sacks, where he wasn't able to take a three step drop.... but he did manage to get outside the pocket, and away from danger many, many times. Peyton Manning, Jake Delhomme, and many others, would not have been able to have done much better, if any, than David. Bret Favre, McNabb, Culpepper, McNair, may very well have done something to help us to more wins. If Carr had time to make it to the sideline, He had time to make a play.

 

[TEXANFAN23435]

TreWardTxn, if dumping the damaged goods, that we will call DC is the only option, then getting a QB who can start the 2006 season is at the top of the priority list. As I've stated before the only college QB ready to step under center in the NFL is Matt Leinert. This guy has had 3 outstanding seasons at USC and has played in a NFL style offense in each of those seasons. As successful as Carson Palmer was this year, I think ML can come in and be a year to year and half ahead of CP's learning curve. As I've mentioned in previous post, VY needs a 2 year seasoning process as a clip board carrier, much like McNair so he can enjoy optimal success at the NFL level.

The man's best year as a college QB came as a shotgun formation QB. There is a big difference in taking the snap 4-6 yards behind center and getting under center and having to take a 3-5 step drop. In the shotgun, VY was allowed to start his reads quicker and most important was allowed to view the pocket protection and pickup the blitzes faster. In the 3-5 step drop, QB's are stepping back, then as they're setting up and begin to make the reads a lot of times you just don't have time to pickup the blitzes, that's where the ultimate trust in your OL comes in. When your OL is suspect, defenses just pin their ears back and fly in, so when you hit that 3rd step you may have instant heat on you forcing a bad throw or in the 5 step drop, you get hit so hard that your cleats were left right where you was last standing. You have this done to you for more than 3 seasons and I don't care who the QB is, you just begin to question everything and throws your confidence into a tailspin. Anyone remember how Vinny Testeverde got hit so many times in Tampa Bay that by his 4th or 5th season, HE CLAIMED HE WAS FRICKIN COLOR BLIND!!!!!! Anyone on this MB think Steve Young wouldn't have suffered the same fate had he been forced to stay?????

 

[HoustonFrog]

If the real Jim rome made this statement, i would at least be comfortable that his tongue was some version of planted in his cheek. I have never done any of those jobs, but in the big scheme of things those guys; mechanics, AC techs, and truck drivers are a heck alot more important that any football coach to most of the planet.

Also, if all of these "football" guys were so much smarter than all of us then there wouldn't be 8 coaching openings a year. Hate to tell you but I'd much rather have some of the posters here construct a team and look at salary cap issues than I would some of the so called experts...lol. Look at Matt Millen. Just because you played football and seem like a good guy doesn't make you a great evaluator of talent and a good person to run a team. Just staying..football and all of the professions named have morons that don't belong in it. Do they know more about their own sport? Definitely but there have been alot more players and coaches that have let people down over time than have succeeded.

 

[TEXANRED]

Now, you're saying that Vince wouldn't be able to get to the sideline?? Whaa.... the thing that makes Vince different from David, is that once he gets out of the pocket, your chances are better, that he'll do something with the ball, other than take it out of bounds with him. Sure, David made some plays while on the move, but admit it... it's not his strong suit.

How long does it take Carr to get to the sideline?? What are the odds that a reciever had gotten open in that time??

Alright now I am going to have to say Whaa...

Not his strong suit? David is not a statue. He has been the leading AFC QB in rushes for the last three years and finishes second only to Vick. David's runs are not planned and improved unlike Vicks were it is in the play book. Carr's got the Pirellis and with Kube's coming in hopefully he will design some running plays to utillize his skills and keep the D on there toes.

Does anyone else get tired of posting the same thing over and over. Typical dialoge: David Carr is not a good QB. Typical response: Carr has no line, can't be effective. Typical responce: Oh horse doody, I am tired of that excuse.

But its true. He has no line. Thats not opinion, thats fact. It would be like saying you are tired of a one legged marathon runner coming in last and tired of hearing "Its b/c he only has one legg" excuse. Well.......Facts are facts. Until we get a solid O-line who are filling more than just a roster spot then we will never know how good David Carr can be. But he could also help himself out by not running out of bounds with the ball.

 

[Hardcore Texan]

Alright now I am going to have to say Whaa...

Not his strong suit? David is not a statue. He has been the leading AFC QB in rushes for the last three years and finishes second only to Vick. David's runs are not planned and improved unlike Vicks were it is in the play book. Carr's got the Pirellis and with Kube's coming in hopefully he will design some running plays to utillize his skills and keep the D on there toes.

Does anyone else get tired of posting the same thing over and over. Typical dialoge: David Carr is not a good QB. Typical response: Carr has no line, can't be effective. Typical responce: Oh horse doody, I am tired of that excuse.

But its true. He has no line. Thats not opinion, thats fact. It would be like saying you are tired of a one legged marathon runner coming in last and tired of hearing "Its b/c he only has one legg" excuse. Well.......Facts are facts. Until we get a solid O-line who are filling more than just a roster spot then we will never know how good David Carr can be. But he could also help himself out by not running out of bounds with the ball.

I agree with you on that assessment. Personally I would have used the "one legged man in an as* kicking contest" analogy, but that's just me. But seriously, good point.

 

[TEXANFAN23435]

Very good point, TEXANRED.

 

[kevlar_h]

Taking Jake with in my opinion would be suicide. With a lack of production at offensive line, you need a scrambling quarterback. Jake does not fit that mold whatsoever.
I'd rather test my water with Carr.

What's this guy smoking? Jake is not a scrambling QB? Jake is twice as acurate passing when he's flushed out of the pocket.

I hope Kubiak brings the bootleg to Houston. I think Carr and Plummer are very much alike as far as ability. With Kubiak at the helm and a line up front, Carr will be a Pro Bowl QB.

 

[thunderkyss]

What's this guy smoking? Jake is not a scrambling QB? Jake is twice as acurate passing when he's flushed out of the pocket.

I hope Kubiak brings the bootleg to Houston. I think Carr and Plummer are very much alike as far as ability. With Kubiak at the helm and a line up front, Carr will be a Pro Bowl QB.

Except Carr isn't nearly as accurate when he is on the move...

Alright now I am going to have to say Whaa...

Not his strong suit? David is not a statue. He has been the leading AFC QB in rushes for the last three years and finishes second only to Vick. David's runs are not planned and improved unlike Vicks were it is in the play book. Carr's got the Pirellis and with Kube's coming in hopefully he will design some running plays to utillize his skills and keep the D on there toes.

Does anyone else get tired of posting the same thing over and over. Typical dialoge: David Carr is not a good QB. Typical response: Carr has no line, can't be effective. Typical responce: Oh horse doody, I am tired of that excuse.

You're not feel'n me Tex..... Michael Vick can run all day long, and it'll get him some wins, and people will enjoy the show. But that's about as far as that'll go. He's not going to be all that he can be, till he is able to get that big play down the field..... yeah, go get your first down, go ahead, do it again.... that third time, go for the juggular, and make the big play down the field.

Carr's got wheels, he can get away, he can pick up the first down. Every now and again, he'll make the big play, but it's too far and in between. Vince is better at playing when he is flushed out of the pocket.

Picture this. The pocket collapses, David Carr will either run into the arms of a defensive player, curl up like a baby and wait for the sack, run out of bounds with the ball(technically, it is a sack, if it's behind the line of scrimmage) or pickup the first down.

Now, picture this. The pocket collapses, Vince young jukes....... then he jives.... then..he pump fakes... then .... he.... bobs.. then........... weeves.... then... I don't even know what to call that move, because I ain't never seen not'n like that.... then he throws the ball back across the field, because his tightend managed to get open... and he scores........

You give him time.... Carr's going to hurt you...... so will Vince.. You blitz him, and the man of steal is going to make you pay....

 

[thunderkyss]

O my gosh now we are making stuff up alow me to try.

David Carr gets his extentionfor another 3 years, We draft Reggie Bush. Kubiak and Carr work like mad dogs during the offseason(like he always has!). Carr excels under Kubiaks Offense because he finally has all the right people he should have had in the first place. The O is pumped about the NEW Offense, people are working hard, watching film to get ready for the game.
We get some good O Lineman in here next year, Bentley, Hutchenson we FINALLY give Carr the protection he needs(and we all know what Carr does with time he can hurt you).

Carr has a great game and Reggie and Dre catch for a 100+ yards each, Carr goes for 270 and 4 TDs, Reggie makes some out of this world juke more then once and rushes for 90 yards, Carr is kept off his back and half way through the season Carr is one of the guys for the MVP and you know what he says,"Give it to someone else I dont want it", WHY they ask? "Because I have not done anything different then I have the last 4 years I have been here". Then we get to the Superbowl and win it, Carr gets up there and says"This is for Bob, Kubes, the coaching staff my family and the "fans" that never gave up on me or my team. "I am out"

PS- They still give him the MVP because he throws for 3,800 yards 38 TDs and 7 INTs.

The pocket collapses, David Carr will either run into the arms of a defensive player, curl up like a baby and wait for the sack, run out of bounds with the ball(technically, it is a sack, if it's behind the line of scrimmage) or pickup the first down.

You ain't never seen none of this???? really??