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Injury Thread

CloakNNNdagger said:
They cut him, then restructured his contract (possibly under the threat of grievance). He can't make the week 1 roster until week 1. Letting him participate in "offseason conditioning" and cutting him prior to week 1 would make things much less messy for the team.
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It's my understanding that his contract was restructured on May 12, 2017 and the contract is nullified now that he's been cut -- nothing more to 'prove' or week 1 roster concerns as he's gone. Not sure if we're on the same page with that.

Something interesting I found when looking into the grievance -- he thinks he should be due 500k because his Dr said he shouldn't have failed the team's physical. Yet he was paid 1MM more than he would have been by the team if he hadn't renegotiated the contract. Seems like the team's been more than fair to him.

The $2,250,000 in cash is over a million dollars more than Newton would have been entitled to under injury protection had the team released Newton from his contract.
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http://texanscap.com/2017/05/23/derek-newton-contract-renegotiation/
 
Max said:
It's my understanding that his contract was restructured on May 12, 2017 and the contract is nullified now that he's been cut -- nothing more to 'prove' or week 1 roster concerns as he's gone. Not sure if we're on the same page with that.

Something interesting I found when looking into the grievance -- he thinks he should be due 500k because his Dr said he shouldn't have failed the team's physical. Yet he was paid 1MM more than he would have been by the team if he hadn't renegotiated the contract. Seems like the team's been more than fair to him.



http://texanscap.com/2017/05/23/derek-newton-contract-renegotiation/
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Thanks for the clarification. I took it from the ambiguous tweets (and from the order of the tweets) that he may have renegotiated after being cut now, but apparently you are correct. The "renegotiation to a split salary" was from last year. Either way, there was no way in my mind that he would be on the week 1 roster this year or any other year.

The timing of the grievance is still odd.
 
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If Newton's basis for grievance is that he was not passed on physical but passed by Dr. James Anderson, I don't see that he stands on firm ground. Criteria for passing a physical differs from team to team. The CBA does not dictate a standard. That's why you see a player fail with one team and be released........then 2 days later passed by another and signed. [And don't forget that Dr. Anderson is the team physician that called RGIII OK to return to play..........when he could hardly walk back to the huddle before his fateful injury.] Newton could not complete leg extensions and was found to have significant knee swelling..............both of these findings after 2 years would be sound reasons to fail him on physical. Permanent loss of range of motion and of leg extension strength are your main concerns following patellar tendon rupture.
 
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Our new strength and conditioning coach Richesson is turning the Texans program on its head.................for the good. Weight training has essentially been converted to the use of bands...........a change that I feel will contribute to lower numbers of injuries, especially preventable low grade nagging ones. He has taken full charge of the nutrition aspect, carefully monitoring and directing each player's food choices and intake. He will also be monitoring and directing players' sleep habits..........you can't be at your best when you're playing Madden or touring the nightclubs all night.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-med...9dbed76e#7333d81c-4f54-4d59-98b8-e88298b55916

Note how he has "adjusted" Watt's box jump height...........something that should have been done long time ago.........before his injuries. You won't see tire flips either.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
Our new strength and conditioning coach Richesson is turning the Texans program on its head.................for the good. Weight training has essentially been converted to the use of bands...........a change that I feel will contribute to lower numbers of injuries, especially preventable low grade nagging ones. He has taken full charge of the nutrition aspect, carefully monitoring and directing each player's food choices and intake. He will also be monitoring and directing players' sleep habits..........you can't be at your best when you're playing Madden or touring the nightclubs all night.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-med...9dbed76e#7333d81c-4f54-4d59-98b8-e88298b55916

Note how he has "adjusted" Watt's box jump height...........something that should have been done long time ago.........before his injuries. You won't see tire flips either.
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Awright glad to see you approve of the the new guy OTJ and his changes/improvements C&D, that's a strong endorsement in my book !
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Our new strength and conditioning coach Richesson is turning the Texans program on its head.................for the good. Weight training has essentially been converted to the use of bands...........a change that I feel will contribute to lower numbers of injuries, especially preventable low grade nagging ones. He has taken full charge of the nutrition aspect, carefully monitoring and directing each player's food choices and intake. He will also be monitoring and directing players' sleep habits..........you can't be at your best when you're playing Madden or touring the nightclubs all night.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-med...9dbed76e#7333d81c-4f54-4d59-98b8-e88298b55916

Note how he has "adjusted" Watt's box jump height...........something that should have been done long time ago.........before his injuries. You won't see tire flips either.
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but don't high jump boxes and giant tire flips look really cool on youtube and NFLnetwork clips???
 
Someone who is knowledgeable about these things help me understand the why rubber bands are better than weights or Nautilus-type machines. Or are they just another way to accomplish the desired strength increases?

I mean, why do they use weights at the combine if bands are better?

 
ObsiWan said:
Someone who is knowledgeable about these things help me understand the why rubber bands are better than weights or Nautilus-type machines. Or are they just another way to accomplish the desired strength increases?

I mean, why do they use weights at the combine if bands are better?
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Evander Holyfield was one of the first big time athletes to utilize "Bands" in his daily routine. To the nest of my recollection, he mentioned that it kept him more flexible while maintaining his strength. P90X follows the same concept with it's use of "Bands" to build muscle and strength. I'm looking forward to see the results from this approach for NFL players.
 
ObsiWan said:
Someone who is knowledgeable about these things help me understand the why rubber bands are better than weights or Nautilus-type machines. Or are they just another way to accomplish the desired strength increases?

I mean, why do they use weights at the combine if bands are better?
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This is an ongoing heavy debate, but..................

When using free weights, the resistance you feel comes from gravity. This gravity builds momentum. If you stop lifting a weight, the weight is going to fall. Building muscle comes from fighting this force. However, this momentum can cause problems. You need to control the weight when working out. However, you become more fatigued and your ability to control the weight diminishes with each repetition. Without proper control, the risk of injury increases. When the you get to the last rep, your muscles are entirely fatigued, yet you have to force that weight one last time into it cradle position........a maneuver that is where injury commonly occurs.

When using resistance bands, you do not fight gravity. Instead, you are fighting the tension in the bands, but can move freely in any direction. With gravity, the only way is down. The ability to move freely allows you to mimic and recreate natural movements in sports. You have total control of the movement, and the ability to smoothly release resistance when fatigue is overwhelming.

Proper form is essential for building proper muscular strength and symmetry, along with greatly reducing the risk of injury. With free weights, you are more prone to using other muscles to help you with an exercise. For example, when doing standing dumbbell curls, you not only may use your biceps, but also may use your back to sway the weight up. This defeats the whole purpose of using just your biceps for this exercise and building the most muscle possible. Resistance bands completely isolate the muscles you are training and allow you to focus on and improve your form.

Injuries on the field are numerous enough without having them occur in workouts which subsequently encourage more on the field.
 
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Agree w/ CNNND here. I had shoulder weakness and would get stingers if I didn't strengthen them before games -- elastic bands were far superior for this. The motion that needed resistance was up and to the right or a 45 degree angle which I was able to accomplish w/ the bands and as Doc mentioned -- weight resistance is only down because of gravity. No training on the matter, but from experience agree w/ Doc again on momentum. You can get weights moving in a direction initially w/ a movement that might not be healthy just to get a rep in. Free weights were helpful for my shoulder but not close to as effective as the bands.
 
Houston Texans running back D'Onta Foreman is not expected to be ready for the start of training in camp.

In fact, the Houston Chronicle reported that Foreman may not be recovered from a torn Achilles in time for Week 1 and could open the season on the physically unable to perform list.

https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/NFL...oreman-potential-PUP-candidate/4941524325320/


Three weeks ago:

Texans head coach Bill O'Brien said Tuesday that he thinks Foreman (Achilles) will be ready for training camp, John McClain of the Houston Chronicle reports.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...ns-donta-foreman-could-be-ready-for-camp/amp/
 
The average return to play after an Achilles rupture is ~6 months. Thirty percent of all players will never make it back at all. Specifically, a RB's chances of coming back to play are very marked less. Those that did manage to make it back on the field ended up being wasted roster spots at best.

From Jan 12 in another thread:

CloakNNNdagger said:
There has been no NFL RB that has ever recaptured sustained pre-injury form after rupturing an Achilles tendon. This would not be unexpected as the position relies so heavily on a combination of explosiveness, speed, cutting ability and physicality against repeated massive resistance. And that is not even taking into account that this injury is infamous for leading to further lower extremities injuries when attempting return.
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Expect wishful thinking to keep pushing rehabbed return for Foreman further into the future, until................
 
TheKDog said:
So what's with OBrien being optimistic? He sure does a lot of "coachspeak" (ie dumb comments)
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The difference between three weeks ago and how appears to be one of specific information. The players actually have returned to actual official workouts with real evaluation being made. Three weeks ago O'Brien's answer was some version of he "thinks."

The report (not an actual quote) has occurred after the players returned formal off-season workouts and Foreman has been evaluated by medical staff. Of course, there is not Texan staff member named stating this more negative prognosis.

The real answer is "no one knows" until Foreman's body does or does not heal properly and he performs or (does not perform) on the field.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
The real answer is "no one knows" until Foreman's body does or does not heal properly and he performs or (does not perform) on the field.
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Whether we like it or not, this is always the real answer.

But the press keeps asking (seldom the medical staff so pretty much always the wrong people) and we keep eating those answers up
idonno:
 
ObsiWan said:
But the press keeps asking (seldom the medical staff so pretty much always the wrong people) and we keep eating those answers up
idonno:
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And to be fair to the medical staff, we don't know that the coaches/players accurately pass along what they say. Odds are they always hear and tell us the most rosy scenario.
 
My problem is 3 weeks ago we were in free agency and OBrien thought foreman would be back for training camp
 
[from HoustonTexans.com just 3 weeks ago]

D’Onta Foreman back for Week 1?
Posted Feb 28, 2018

Deepi Sidhu Texans Insider/Lead Writer HoustonTexans.com

D’Onta Foreman had the breakout game of his rookie season, rushing for two touchdowns against Arizona on Nov. 19, before being carted off the field for a season-ending Achilles injury.

The Texans running back could be ready to return for Week 1 of the 2018 regular season.

“I won’t speak specific to injuries but I’m fairly optimistic that the answer would be yes,” Texans general manager Brian Gaine said Wednesday at the NFL Combine.
********************************

Again none of these statement mean anything at this point in time.
 
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infantrycak said:
Rather draft one anyway. But some of us have been warning they should draft as if Foreman doesn't exist.

I'd be looking hard with one of those 3rds.
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TC agrees...
Stephanie Stradley‏Verified account@StephStradley
A #Texans 7 rd mock I did, no trades. Felt odd to have these pick gaps. Thoughts?
3-68 W Richardson OT NC State
3-80 A Averett CB Alabama
3-98 K Johnson RB Auburn
4-103 R Green DE USC
6-177 D Smythe TE ND
6-211 C Gossett OG App St
6-214 C Wilson WR Boise St
7-222 J. Kalu S Neb

3:01 PM - 20 Apr 2018
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(I miss her)
 
ObsiWan said:
TC agrees...


(I miss her)
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I'd question Steph's 3rd rnd pick of RB Kerryon Johnson. He has a very worrisome history of injuries. In high school, in 2012, he sustained a significant MCL tear. He then dislocated his shoulder sustaining a significant labrum tear which he played through. The following offseason, he underwent repair of his shoulder. It should be mentioned that while playing basketball, he broke his hand, an injury which required surgery in 2013. Then, later that year, while playing football, he again dislocated the same repaired shoulder, and opted not to undergo surgery(as I've written in the past, once a dislocation occurs without repair, it becomes significant risk for future dislocation). Later that year, he dislocated his other shoulder twice in one game , and underwent surgical repair of that shoulder. As an aside during that game, he played both RB and safety and changed his shoulder brace from side to side as needed. In addition he sustained a major high ankle sprain during the year and played through these injuries with significant effect on his play. After his 1st season at Auburn, he required yet another shoulder surgery. His 2nd season was marred by significant high ankle and hamstring injuries. 2017, his 3rd and last year at Auburn, he dislocated his shoulder and sustained bruised and fractured ribs.

There is no doubt in my mind that he is a very tough kid to be able to play through his injuries and still be able to have a commendable ave yds/carry (~4.6) at Auburn when he was able to play............but his extensive injury history does not bode well for him being able to stay on an NFL field.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
I'd question Steph's 3rd rnd pick of RB Kerryon Johnson. He has a very worrisome history of injuries. In high school, in 2012, he sustained a significant MCL tear. He then dislocated his shoulder sustaining a significant labrum tear which he played through. The following offseason, he underwent repair of his shoulder. It should be mentioned that while playing basketball, he broke his hand, an injury which required surgery in 2013. Then, later that year, while playing football, he again dislocated the same repaired shoulder, and opted not to undergo surgery(as I've written in the past, once a dislocation occurs without repair, it becomes significant risk for future dislocation). Later that year, he dislocated his other shoulder twice in one game , and underwent surgical repair of that shoulder. As an aside during that game, he played both RB and safety and changed his shoulder brace from side to side as needed. In addition he sustained a major high ankle sprain during the year and played through these injuries with significant effect on his play. After his 1st season at Auburn, he required yet another shoulder surgery. His 2nd season was marred by significant high ankle and hamstring injuries. 2017, his 3rd and last year at Auburn, he dislocated his shoulder and sustained bruised and fractured ribs.

There is no doubt in my mind that he is a very tough kid to be able to play through his injuries and still be able to have a commendable ave yds/carry (~4.6) at Auburn when he was able to play............but his extensive injury history does not bode well for him being able to stay on an NFL field.
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Sounds like the kind of player RS would've traded up for. Hoping for different with Gaine.
 
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TheKDog said:
My problem is 3 weeks ago we were in free agency and OBrien thought foreman would be back for training camp
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I think he said he might be there for week 1 I believe...

but what was he supposed to say (this guy is done, now we HAVE to get another back!)?
 
JB said:
I think he said he might be there for week 1 I believe...

but what was he supposed to say (this guy is done, now we HAVE to get another back!)?
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He could say they don't know. Every time OBrien says something dumb, people defend it as coachspeak. But he didn't have to say it
 
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TheKDog said:
He could say they don't know. Every time OBrien says something dumb, people defend it as coachspeak. But he didn't have to say it
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Then some poster (maybe not you) would be saying BOB doesn't even know what going on with his own team...so damned if a coach gives a best guess at the moment or damned if he says nothing.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
Then some poster (maybe not you) would be saying BOB doesn't even know what going on with his own team...so damned if a coach gives a best guess at the moment or damned if he says nothing.
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He doesn't have to say he doesn't know what is going on with the team. He could say the injury is uncertain. Instead, he seems to have had incorrect information.
 
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TheKDog said:
He doesn't have to say he doesn't know what is going on with the team. He could say the injury is uncertain. Instead, he seems to have had incorrect information.
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Saying an injury is uncertain = I don't know= the impression that O'Brien is dumb for some posters.

Most of us know that when a coach (not just O'Brien) says anything about any injury, he is responding to a question with some version of guessing. Experience tells us that he is probably wrong and just to "wait and see"

The error is taking a random quote from a coach in the offseason or a single sentence rumor from a reporter as any sort of truth about a specific injury.
 
Coaches aren't injury experts. You see a lot of injuries but that doesn't make you an expert on the healing process. All athletes are different. Recover differently, heal differently, rehab differently. It's all a guessing game as a coach. That's what the training staff is for.

I will say this. The guys that sit on the end of the bench always seem to come back from injury sooner than you thought they would. And your best players always seem to come back at a snail's pace. Is that a real interpretation of time? I don't think so. But it feels that way.

My guess would be that OB wants Foreman back sooner than he'll actually be able to return, and that feeling distorts his perception of the timetable.
 
bah007 said:
Coaches aren't injury experts. You see a lot of injuries but that doesn't make you an expert on the healing process. All athletes are different. Recover differently, heal differently, rehab differently. It's all a guessing game as a coach. That's what the training staff is for.

I will say this. The guys that sit on the end of the bench always seem to come back from injury sooner than you thought they would. And your best players always seem to come back at a snail's pace. Is that a real interpretation of time? I don't think so. But it feels that way.

My guess would be that OB wants Foreman back sooner than he'll actually be able to return, and that feeling distorts his perception of the timetable.
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Agreed, that's what I'm saying. O'Brien's perception is distorted right in the middle of free agency when big needs should be filled.
 
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/p...y-nfl-draft/prZV1PxLOVAaAgp6oQIZUN/story.html

With the wide availability of college film now, teams can compile more data than ever before, if they want it. In addition to comparing 40 times and broad jumps, teams find different ways to track a player’s health, his productivity at various positions and alignments, his performance in the fourth quarter, and so on. The goal is to find players who can fit specific roles — special teams, slot cornerback, nickel linebacker — and also players who have the best chance of staying healthy.
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TheRealJoker said:
Do you think he starts off year on PUP?
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Steadman Hawkins Clinic in Denver compiled data on 22 NFL players who suffered 24 patellar tendon ruptures between 1994 and 2004. In their study, 100% of the injured players were re-signed by NFL teams, and they participated in training camps after recovery. Only 19 of the 24 players returned to play in the regular season. Using that criterion, roughly 80% of elite athletes returned to the same or higher level of play after patellar tendon rupture.

If Ervin doesn't make it back by TC (~10 months post rupture), I would expect him to be released rather than PUPed. But we'll have to wait and see.
 
I guess they're still optimistic about Foreman.

@sarahbarshop 23m23 minutes ago
The Texans announced they have re-signed running back Alfred Blue. Lamar Miller and D’Onta Foreman will get the bulk of the touches, but Blue had more carries than Miller in the last three games of the season while Foreman was hurt.
 
John McClain said yesterday that Watt's injury last year had nothing to do with his back, that it was just a freak injury.

Is that correct? I thought it was a compensatory injury?
 
TheKDog said:
John McClain said yesterday that Watt's injury last year had nothing to do with his back, that it was just a freak injury.

Is that correct? I thought it was a compensatory injury?
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I would not expect the Texans to put this out there, as it would refocus concern on this back/back surgeries and sports hernia surgeries. I posted what I saw on the play that the fracture occurred (can't find it now). His core did not allow him to recover from a change in direction (an important function of the core), placing extreme stress on his lower limb. Despite denials, his most recent injury was affected by a compromised core.
 
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