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If This Team Doesn't Quit On Kubiak, Bring Him Back!

DexmanC said:
Hey Kubes. What about these PSL holders who think you've done NOTHING
to take this team past the Capers era?

116p6o9.jpg


I agree, Kubes. I agree.
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This is the perfect gif animation that portrays Kubiak's season(s):

Railing against a ref's call, and unable to make his own luck.

An inability to get the team over the hump, or past the ref's calls.

Frustration.

Misplaced anger.

Suckage.
 
GP said:
This is the perfect gif animation that portrays Kubiak's season(s):

Railing against a ref's call, and unable to make his own luck.

An inability to get the team over the hump, or past the ref's calls.

Frustration.

Misplaced anger.

Suckage.
Click to expand...

Wow, man, that's really deep.

I just thought it was cool cuz he cussed on TV. :photos:
 
datchapin said:
I don't get it. The main argument for keeping Kubiak is that he's assembled a good squad.
Click to expand...

Unless you are reading the argument that he doesn't win because the players aren't good enough. Or old enough. Or vocal enough. Or smart enough.
 
DexmanC said:
He lost 2/3 of the INTERIOR of the offensive line. Where's the running game?
The offense is predicated on playaction, and we can't run. STILL, the
team remains competitive in spite of losing so much of our o-line. Teams
that lose offensive linemen left and right struggle. This is the first season
in which we've been bit by the injury bug, and still were not blown off
the field.

You also need a little luck to win. The Texans have got NO BREAKS all
year! The margin for error is SMALL in the NFL. EVERY team makes mistakes,
and this team's a lucky bounce or two away from a couple more wins. Yeah,
it sucks, but you don't blow up the whole team over it. You take the team,
and the circumstances they've faced, in its entirety. Whether you like it
or not, this is a good team. Both on the field, and in the front office. It
will be a lot clearer once you've backed off the ledge, and the '09 season
has ended.

Calling for the destruction of this team is WAYYYY premature. Sit back,
grab a pizza, and root for your team on Sunday. Jacksonville is in the same
boat as us, yet THEIR home fans will be blacked out. When you want to
talk about "8 years," LEAVE KUBIAK OUT OF IT. We've had the best
3+ years under his regime, and they have NOT topped out yet!
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Look, I'm not sure how this is responding to my post. I didn't say anything about the running game or injuries. I was pointing out that Kubiak gets away from it too much. Against the Colts we were having a good rushing performance and then in the second half we hardly ran it. Throughout his time here Kubiak has admitted as much, but continues to get away from it. This in spite of how important he stresses it is.

Yeah, luck has alot to do with it. However successful clock and time out management as well as choosing when to challenge also have alot to do with it. Our first game against the Colts we got screwed on the call at the two minute warning. However most teams try pulling off the play before the warning. We didn't that gave the Colts a chance to review the play. We've wasted time outs in situations where we were simply unprepared. Time outs that could have made a difference later in the game. I ask you how does it make sense to take a time out with one second on the clock in the 1st quarter (maybe third, can't remember) but it was a horrible time out to burn. I can't remember what game it was, but it was a 4th and something and our ST are out there when the other team was gonna go for it. That is simply horrible coaching, how can you not take a time out to get your proper personnel on the field. We got burned on that possession and all because our head coach wasn't paying attention to what was happening on the field. Again I bring up the Colts challenge on Johnsons TD. I was there, I saw the replay on the big screen as well as live and it was clear he lost control on the way to the ground. Me a spectator identified that, but somehow Kubiak who's paid to do so saw the same thing and challenged it? I didn't see it on TV and I don't have DVR, so I ask. In what way shape or form can that challenge be justified?

I'm not saying I want to blow up the team. I think we have a solid foundation. Of course I'll be rooting for them to win tomorrow same as I was last week and the week before that. However looking at the coaching staff I just think this is as far as they'll take us.

I don't just blame Kubiak, blame should also go to the coaches he's brought in. Bush, his defense at the beginning of the yr. was attrocious. No discipline, blown assigments. We went through a nice stretch, but now your seeing them struggle again. Bill Kollar, he's always favored smaller high motor speed guys. His lines have never been stout against the run. You see Mario getting pushed out of plays, because hes always trying to beat his guy to the outside. Gibbs Jr. our secondary is good for PI or IC penalties every game. Shanny Jr. Our offense may move the chains, but they can't score when they need to. Harris the RB coach couldn't solve Slatons fumbling issues. It's not just Kubiak it's the entire coaching staff. Kubiak was given the chance to upgrade his coaching staff and has failed to bring in coaches that would make the necessary improvements.

I'm not panicking, I'm making observations. I'm not saying we should blow up the team. Teams make coaching changes all the time and somehow survive. I feel Kubiak was given a fair shot here. He's a good guy and I wish him the best, but I think it's time someone else was given a chance here. I don't want a coach who brings in his friends to help run things even if they haven't proven themselves. I want a coach that'll bring in people that can win. Sure I would love to see us win out, but Kubiak is under a ton of pressure right now. I just don't think he's gonna perform in this situation. I hope I'm wrong, but that's just how I see it.
 
DexmanC said:
You also need a little luck to win. The Texans have got NO BREAKS all
year...this team's a lucky bounce or two away from a couple more wins.
Click to expand...
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Everyone likes to point out how close the Texans are to becoming a winner. Here's a lucky break that allowed the Texans to ice their first win of the year. They could easily be 4-7, right now.

The Texans are not 4-7. Or 9-2. They are a well-earned 5-6. It's very likely that even if the Texans win out, they're out of the playoffs. Which makes the month of December garbage time. Where wannabe teams build up meaningless wins that make their final record look respectable. Even though they were never in the playoff hunt.

Gary Kubiak's teams are 13-5 in the month of December. Sounds great. What a closer! That would be outstanding, if his teams didn't go 17-27 during the months prior to December. Did I mention that Kubiak is 7-16 vs. the AFC South? Or 7-22 against teams with winning records?

It doesn't matter what happens in December. These games have been rendered meaningless. This team is not getting better. Or getting worse. It's mired in mediocrity. Gary Kubiak is now a proven head coach. As proven as Bruce Coslet, Ray Rhodes, Dick Jauron, Wade Phillips, Norv Turner, Dave Wannstedt, and all of the other good NFL coordinators who couldn't cut it as NFL head coaches. We know what we have in Kubiak. And it's not good enough.
 
Lucky said:
102694_feature.jpg


Everyone likes to point out how close the Texans are to becoming a winner. Here's a lucky break that allowed the Texans to ice their first win of the year. They could easily be 4-7, right now.

The Texans are not 4-7. Or 9-2. They are a well-earned 5-6. It's very likely that even if the Texans win out, they're out of the playoffs. Which makes the month of December garbage time. Where wannabe teams build up meaningless wins that make their final record look respectable. Even though they were never in the playoff hunt.

Gary Kubiak's teams are 13-5 in the month of December. Sounds great. What a closer! That would be outstanding, if his teams didn't go 17-27 during the months prior to December. Did I mention that Kubiak is 7-16 vs. the AFC South? Or 7-22 against teams with winning records?

It doesn't matter what happens in December. These games have been rendered meaningless. This team is not getting better. Or getting worse. It's mired in mediocrity. Gary Kubiak is now a proven head coach. As proven as Bruce Coslet, Ray Rhodes, Dick Jauron, Wade Phillips, Norv Turner, Dave Wannstedt, and all of the other good NFL coordinators who couldn't cut it as NFL head coaches. We know what we have in Kubiak. And it's not good enough.
Click to expand...

The games haven't become meaningless, until they've earned their seventh
loss, or another team clinches the wild card. Neither has happened yet.
 
So let me get this straight: You suddenly have "Fire Kubiak" soap as your avatar?

Give me a f-----g break, hypocrite. You live with Kubes, you die with Kubes.
 
I gave the guy 'till the end of the season. Then, he removed all doubt at
his ineptitude. I can't blame this game on the defense. I can't blame this
game on Schaub. I can't even blame this game on Chris Brown. Kubiak
allowed this play to enter into Schaub's headset:

51udeg.jpg


I'm honest. I really wanted to hold my bar of soap 'till the offseason, but
damn. The offense was clicking on ALL CYLINDERS, and our coaches let
the team down. So, close. Yet, so far away. So, I've unwrapped my bar
of soap.
 
DexmanC said:
I gave the guy 'till the end of the season. Then, he removed all doubt at
his ineptitude. I can't blame this game on the defense. I can't blame this
game on Schaub. I can't even blame this game on Chris Brown. Kubiak
allowed this play to enter into Schaub's headset:

51udeg.jpg


I'm honest. I really wanted to hold my bar of soap 'till the offseason, but
damn. The offense was clicking on ALL CYLINDERS, and our coaches let
the team down. So, close. Yet, so far away. So, I've unwrapped my bar
of soap.
Click to expand...

You're full of s--t. What about the games we have left? Can't we still win ALL of those? According to you, we can. What did you see today that you haven't seen before?

Give me a break.
 
houstonspartan said:
You're full of s--t. What about the games we have left? Can't we still win ALL of those? According to you, we can. What did you see today that you haven't seen before?

Give me a break.
Click to expand...

I was wrong. What do you expect me to say? I'm man enough to admit it.
I just needed a huge amount of evidence to see it, but I see clearly now.
 
houstonspartan said:
So let me get this straight: You suddenly have "Fire Kubiak" soap as your avatar?

Give me a f-----g break, hypocrite. You live with Kubes, you die with Kubes.
Click to expand...

Got a question for ya... Where's this "living" you speak of? 8-8 isn't living. (and that's the BEST we've seen thus far)
 
houstonspartan said:
Ok, I respect that.

But, again: What changed your mind? Details.
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The drive on which this play happened changed my mind.

51udeg.jpg


Matt Schaub comes out of the locker room, with ONE ARM, and was driving
the team from deep in their own territory to the 10-yardline. Ryan Moats
was moving the chains. Schaub was completing passes on 3rd and long,
Walter and Johnson were involved. Then, when we need a play for 6, the
coaches allow that play to be called.

To make a long story short...
The defense made stops when we needed them to. Schaub was leading
the offense to score, and converted several huge 1st downs, and everyone
was doing their job except the coach. This was a must win game, because
a loss puts us at 1-5 in the division, swept by Jacksonville, and have no
shot to win any tiebreakers. The lack of discipline on key plays is also
apparent. Schaub had to scream at "veteran" Chris White for false-starting
on 3rd and 5 inside the 10-yardline. Jacoby Jones, one of our biggest
playmakers, consistently misses meetings. This was one game we couldn't
afford to not have him in there.

I don't know how much clearer I can make it. I even gave you a picture,
which is worth than any thousand words I can say. I'm disappointed, and
I'm sure Grandpa Bob will make a change.
 
Goatcheese said:
Norv turner took over the most talented team in the NFL, and has taken them backwards.

Kubiak took over the least talented team in the NFL. Absolute dead last, with a whole 3 players he felt worthy of keeping on the roster, and a horrible salary cap situation. He had to find 20 new starters, plus a punter and depth in 4 off seasons. 4 years is simply not enough time to replace 50 players with quality NFL talent. You're asking him to add 7-8 quality backups, and 5 NFL caliber starters every year.

Nobody can do that. 2006 was one of the best offseasons that any team has had in recent history, and it only netted us 5 NFL level starters. DeMeco Ryans, Mario Williams, Eric Winston, Owen Daniels and Kevin Walter. You can't reasonably expect them to bring in that kind of haul every year.

Add in that he's lost an All Pro TE, fringe Pro Bowl LG, and his starters at RG and FS to injury and it only gets harder.

Despite that mountain he's had to climb, this team has shown clear improvement this season over past years. They have only been 'beaten' once in 11 games. Every other game was competitive and exciting, with a chance for them to pull out a win. They've scored more points than they've surrendered for the first time in franchise history. The defense is no longer the worst in NFL history. The offense has been good despite the running game struggling this year; a problem you can realistically expect to be solved given this coaching staff's past success.

Personally I'm 50/50 on Kubes. He has been brilliant at times, and left me full on double facepalm at others. I think he's improved the team every year, and at this point, should get the final year of his contract to see if he can finish the 5 year plan. Maybe I'm being too patient, but I think a rookie head coach starting a team basically with AJ, and Pitts can't be expected to be a serious playoff contender(especially in the AFC South) after 4 years.

McNair understands the enormity of the task Kubiak has undertaken, and I can't see him throwing him under the bus without a serious collapse, and loss of confidence from the players.
Click to expand...

Just something I've been thinking about today and this part of your post brought it back to the front of my mind.

Kubiak inherited a 2-14 team correct?

He basically took that team, added that talented bunch of 2006 rookies and got them to 6-10. That was with David Carr at QB. Starting rookies from 2006 were Mario (who had a very sub par season thanks to his foot), DeMeco Ryans (great rookie year), Owen Daniels who started 12 games, Wali Lundy who almost averaged 4 yards a carry but scared nobody), and Eric Winston. I'd count Charles Spencer but we all know how that turned out.

So we started 5 rookies for much of the year, two on defense. The rest of the team was all those guys who needed to be replaced and presumably have been. I'm totally with you here on this. That was a lousy team.

6-10 though. That's two games worse than we've been holding at for the last two years and presumably will finish in the same neighborhood again this season. I always kind of consider a three game "spread" when predicting a win/loss record. I've always done that. I think the Texans will be, say "10-6" but I always feel like that's 9-7 if they don't get more of the calls and 11-5 if they get some breaks go their way.

It's subjective but the difference between 9-7 and 11-5 isn't anything really. It's a penalty here, a fumble there. I think a 9-7 team is just as good probably as an 11-5 team on average.

So I also think a 6-10 team is likely not all that much worse than an 8-8 team. The difference between the two is just a few plays. A season like the 2-14 disaster we lived through in 2005 is an aberration for the most part. It's a case of the losing taking on a life of its own. I don't think most 2-14 teams are really "2-14 bad" That same team was 7-9 the year before so other than the one terrible season this team has been hovering in that .500ish zone since 2004.

I find myself wondering what has Kubiak really accomplished in his four years here. Sure, the talent level is better but how much? How much of that 2 game improvement comes from simply having a decent QB as opposed to David Carr? Carr was a real train wreck I believe and so I find myself believing that if you took that 2006 team and just changed out David Carr for Matt Schaub you would more than likely find yourself around .500

I'm not trying to say that they're were good (back in 2006) or that we haven't gotten better. I'm trying to say that this coaching staff and in particular Gary are going to give you about a .500 record whether you give them chicken **** or chicken salad to work with. I think you could hand the 2009 New Orleans Saints over to Gary Kubiak & Co. and by the time they were done (about three years) the Saints would be inconsistent and turning in 8-8 and 9-7 seasons.

It's either that or these better players we're all excited about are just as bad as the bunch that these coaches inherited. I can't bring myself to believe that. I truly think that Gary's going to get you about .500 no matter what you give him.
 
Kubiak displayed the SAME DAMN CHARACTERISTICS last year as he's doing this year and NOW people want him gone.

He's a bad decision maker. He's horrible prepping his team. He lacks fire, and that bleeds over to his players. He puts key plays in the hands of CHRIS BROWN, who is a nobody in this league. This guy is a doofus play waiting to be called.
 
On the halfback pass play call (as quoted by Lopez and Kalu on 610)

Andre Johnson: of course I want the ball in that situation. We should have run something different.
Click to expand...

Eric Winston: You either look like a genius or you look like an *****
Click to expand...

Add that to Schaub's WTF look as he walked off the field, and I think you can see the team losing confidence in their coach. You do NOT make that call with the game on the line. I like the play, but it's something you try early on in a game when the outcome isn't necessarily at risk.
 
thats a thoughtful post one that certainly has its merit, but I think in these diasapointing times we forget the big picture. that of having an NFL team which has to compete against the best other cities around these United States has to offer, everybody is trying to win. the difference this season is we have the ability to do so much better but haven't yet figured out how to win & lose in the most inexplicable ways possible. players still make plays, yes the coaches assume the responsiblity but they don't score touchdowns or turnover the ball thats the players responsibility.

what I'm most excited about is #1 our fanbase passion for its team, the Texans. #2 our young players drafted by excellent scouting staff & in tune with coaching staff to address needs. #3 our younger coaches like Shanahan & Gibbs. the future is bright, sometimes there is no rhyme or reason for what happens but one more solid draft & resigning key players should put us over the top. :specnatz:
 
I was coming into this game thinking that Kubiak should probably keep his job for one more year. After seeing this game I think that the team has not really made the progress I expected. We had a schedule that could have easily gotten us to 10-6. We've had several huge setbacks this year, Owen Daniels, our old reliable kicker blowing 2 games, Chester Pitts going down, Slaton having a crappy sophmore season, etc. My feeling on all that, though, is that every team has setbacks, and they play through them.

I can't justify keeping Kubiak on as a coach for next season. I think he has the offensive knowledge to put together a good team, but he can't make decisive calls when they are needed. I think he'll go and have a good career as an offensive coordinator or even a head coach somewhere else. Right now, though, we need a coach who is going to light a fire under this team, be a leader that we badly need, and actually prepare the team to play every week.
 
DexmanC said:
I gave the guy 'till the end of the season. Then, he removed all doubt at
his ineptitude. I can't blame this game on the defense. I can't blame this
game on Schaub. I can't even blame this game on Chris Brown. Kubiak
allowed this play to enter into Schaub's headset:

51udeg.jpg


I'm honest. I really wanted to hold my bar of soap 'till the offseason, but
damn. The offense was clicking on ALL CYLINDERS, and our coaches let
the team down. So, close. Yet, so far away. So, I've unwrapped my bar
of soap.
Click to expand...

So you were that gung ho all year and even just yesterday about what a great coach Kubes was and will continue to be and how we were all wrong about him, but then after one game now, he's nothing of what you thought he was???? Wow. I'll take a nice hand full of salt on my way out.
 
Texecutioner said:
So you were that gung ho all year and even just yesterday about what a great coach Kubes was and will continue to be and how we were all wrong about him, but then after one game now, he's nothing of what you thought he was???? Wow. I'll take a nice hand full of salt on my way out.
Click to expand...

It's not just one game. I figured he'd learn from his boneheaded decisions,
and coach properly. Running that play, in that situation, with EVERYTHING
on the line, did it for me. The Texans losing today's game effectively ended
their season. The coaches didn't put the game into the hands of its players,
they lost it for them.

Go ahead, type the magic words (I told ya so), and feel good about yourself.
The mature posters on this board know where I'm coming from. I'm man
enough to admit I was wrong. I just hate that Kubiak had to hit me upside
the head with the evidence.
 
DexmanC said:
It's not just one game. I figured he'd learn from his boneheaded decisions,
and coach properly. Running that play, in that situation, with EVERYTHING
on the line, did it for me. The Texans losing today's game effectively ended
their season. The coaches didn't put the game into the hands of its players,
they lost it for them.

Go ahead, type the magic words (I told ya so), and feel good about yourself.
The mature posters on this board know where I'm coming from. I'm man
enough to admit I was wrong. I just hate that Kubiak had to hit me upside
the head with the evidence.
Click to expand...

Give me a break with your "the mature posters" bull---t. You have been arrogant and conceited with your defense of Kubiak, to the point where you didn't even listen to anyone else.

You even had the nerve to say that the only thing that mattered was that "Uncle Bob" listened to you. How arrogant is that? And, how MATURE is that?

I am all about admitting when you were wrong, which you did, but spare me the "mature posters" crap. Not only were you wrong, but you changed your avatar in 2 seconds flat.
 
Texecutioner said:
So you were that gung ho all year and even just yesterday about what a great coach Kubes was and will continue to be and how we were all wrong about him, but then after one game now, he's nothing of what you thought he was???? Wow. I'll take a nice hand full of salt on my way out.
Click to expand...

Exactly. And, he had the nerve to change his avatar to Fire Kubiak soap.

LOL.
 
houstonspartan said:
Give me a break with your "the mature posters" bull---t. You have been arrogant and conceited with your defense of Kubiak, to the point where you didn't even listen to anyone else.

You even had the nerve to say that the only thing that mattered was that "Uncle Bob" listened to you. How arrogant is that? And, how MATURE is that?

I am all about admitting when you were wrong, which you did, but spare me the "mature posters" crap. Not only were you wrong, but you changed your avatar in 2 seconds flat.
Click to expand...

I expected that kind of response from him. The people that lash out at others for not drinking the homerish Kool Aid usually come with something like that when there false expectations have been crushed. I'm sure that next he'll tell us that we aren't real fans since or some **** like that. :turtle:
 
DexmanC said:
It's not just one game. I figured he'd learn from his boneheaded decisions,
and coach properly. Running that play, in that situation, with EVERYTHING
on the line, did it for me. The Texans losing today's game effectively ended
their season. The coaches didn't put the game into the hands of its players,
they lost it for them.

Go ahead, type the magic words (I told ya so), and feel good about yourself.
The mature posters on this board know where I'm coming from. I'm man
enough to admit I was wrong. I just hate that Kubiak had to hit me upside
the head with the evidence.
Click to expand...

I still think well of you.

You tried to remain optimistic. No harm in that, man.

Glad to have you aboard the U.S.S. Pink Soap.

It's just the natural progression of things. The guy has done a really god job of moving the Texans up the ladder, in terms of offensive production. But his ability as a gameday manager and tactician is spotty.

It's a fine line in this league.
 
They should fire Kubiak now there is no reason to wait until of the season to do it, we can replace with one of the other senior coaches on the staff the way that we are losing games is sad.
 
The players did not quit on Kubiak, they hung in there & made the best out of a bad situation. I had a really bad feeling going into this game, just didn't want to interject more negativity but Texans needed Steve Slaton. He makes that throw & breaks other runs for extra yards, that comibned with our LT Duane Brown trying to play hurt & TE's just unable to fill Owen Daniels shoes.

The problem this year has been Texans lack of depth. Kubiak & Smith need at least one more year to develop experienced NFL continuity, lets be fair :handshake:
 
beerlover said:
The players did not quit on Kubiak, they hung in there & made the best out of a bad situation. I had a really bad feeling going into this game, just didn't want to interject more negativity but Texans needed Steve Slaton. He makes that throw & breaks other runs for extra yards, that comibned with our LT Duane Brown trying to play hurt & TE's just unable to fill Owen Daniels shoes.
Click to expand...

Yes, they need Slaton. They needed him when he was healthy and benched too.

During camp the board was electric with the opinion that Daniels is easy to replace - he's just a tight end after all. This season smacked the fan base in the face with that theory.
 
Gary Kubiak DID HAVE the Texans at 5-3 just before the Indy 2-in-the-next-3 Gauntlet, did he not?

How soon we forget that. Just BEFORE that Gauntlet of Games, the Texans lost the BEST performing tight end at that point in time!

When a team is struggling with the run, relying on the passing game which had been effective in a big way...losing a top tier tight end certainly affects the on-field dynamics. While the Texans still compile nice yards, they are not the timely yards that we had with Owen Daniels catching everything in between.

And just so it happened, the loss of Daniels came before the first Colts game.

Losses of the premier tight end and two quality OL-men...not Gary Kubiak, are the main factors in the recent struggles. If we still had those two quality EXPERIENCED linemen, who's to say that the running game would not have turned itself around?

All through this year, it's not Kubiak that coached two crucial field goal misses, a goal line fumble and such. Winning is not easy in the NFL and if players don't make the plays at the end of close games, as Bob McNair correctly asserted, winning is all that more difficult.

The Jags game was already distorted having Schaub out for a spell, then being down 17; it's still a credit that the Texans got to 18-23 with 4:00 left (the Titans got their a--es handed on a platter in that same stadium). It was just an uphill battle against a decent Jags team that fell short. This is a game where the lack of Steve Slaton's open field services hurt, on top of not having Owen Daniels, Chester Pitts and Mike Briesel.

The Texans defense is currently one to run interference conditional to a HEALTHY offense dominating things. And clearly the Texans offense is NOT healthy. In fact I give credit to Kubiak for having the Texans offense still moving the ball enough even if they're not at full capacity to beat the Colts, Titans and Jags tough defenses.

Here Texans fans get mad when Kubiak insists on punching it in with Chris Brown...yet when he deems to do something different with Brown (at least), to change things up...there's this "FIRE KUBIAK," or "WHERE'S THAT SOAP" nonsense over one such play that did not work out? Amazing.

Let's not forget these Texans are still young. They don't yet have the veteran moxy to overcome that bad of a start (ala the Colts). But it will come, even with Kubiak at the helm!

Sure, that was a very questionable HB pass with 12:00 left, but do you use that one play to fire Gary Kubiak? No, I wouldn't.

Like I've said, it's adversity that shows what a team is all about down the road. All I know FOR FACT is that Gary Kubiak had the Houston Texans at 5-3 just before a difficult stretch of games with the Indianapolis Colts (and a bonus roadblock called the Titans). The Texans had never been 5-3 before. Curse the schedule makers for not giving us the Seahawks, Rams and Dolphins after that start instead of Indy TWICE in the next three games then.

These Texans simply were not ready to beat a prime time team like the Indy Colts in any capacity. We can talk out-coached, out-smoached all we want. But the fact is that the Texans still gave a good account of themselves against the Colts. I credit the players' young talent as well as the coaching to keep them motivated for that. The Colts at this point are STILL BETTER. SIMPLY BETTER. PERIOD.

When we saw Owen Daniels go down, the realistic fans knew that development could be a REAL ROADBLOCK to this team's further progress this season. He was a through-the-air bulldozer that kept drives alive and opened up the field BIG TIME.

Hypothetically, how well can the Colts offense perform at PEAK LEVEL for a STRETCH of games WITHOUT Dallas Clark considering their non-existent running game? How well do the Cowboys do without Jason Witten when the run game is struggling? Did you see the Cowboys-Giants today? The Cowboys couldn't run squat so Witten wound up catching over 150 yards. A passing team sans a running game DEFINITELY needs a productive tight end.

So no, I don't blame Gary Kubiak as the main reason for the bad second half of this season. I see the Texans players still playing hard to come back despite being short-handed on offense. Sure, there's boneheaded plays called...but what team out there really doesn't make boneheaded plays (ala Joseph Addai's similar pass attempt)?

Thank goodness they don't let angry short-sighted, instant-gratification fans (who can't seem to correctly take in all the factors) make personnel decisions with pro sports teams.
 
worldlyman said:
Gary Kubiak DID HAVE the Texans at 5-3 just before the Indy 2-in-the-next-3 Gauntlet, did he not?

How soon we forget that. Just BEFORE that Gauntlet of Games, the Texans lost the BEST performing tight end at that point in time!

When a team is struggling with the run, relying on the passing game which had been effective in a big way...losing a top tier tight end certainly affects the on-field dynamics. While the Texans still compile nice yards, they are not the timely yards that we had with Owen Daniels catching everything in between.

And just so it happened, the loss of Daniels came before the first Colts game.

Losses of the premier tight end and two quality OL-men...not Gary Kubiak, are the main factors in the recent struggles. If we still had those two quality EXPERIENCED linemen, who's to say that the running game would not have turned itself around?

All through this year, it's not Kubiak that coached two crucial field goal misses, a goal line fumble and such. Winning is not easy in the NFL and if players don't make the plays at the end of close games, as Bob McNair correctly asserted, winning is all that more difficult.

The Jags game was already distorted having Schaub out for a spell, then being down 17; it's still a credit that the Texans got to 18-23 with 4:00 left (the Titans got their a--es handed on a platter in that same stadium). It was just an uphill battle against a decent Jags team that fell short. This is a game where the lack of Steve Slaton's open field services hurt, on top of not having Owen Daniels, Chester Pitts and Mike Briesel.

The Texans defense is currently one to run interference conditional to a HEALTHY offense dominating things. And clearly the Texans offense is NOT healthy. In fact I give credit to Kubiak for having the Texans offense still moving the ball enough even if they're not at full capacity to beat the Colts, Titans and Jags tough defenses.

Here Texans fans get mad when Kubiak insists on punching it in with Chris Brown...yet when he deems to do something different with Brown (at least), to change things up...there's this "FIRE KUBIAK," or "WHERE'S THAT SOAP" nonsense over one such play that did not work out? Amazing.

Let's not forget these Texans are still young. They don't yet have the veteran moxy to overcome that bad of a start (ala the Colts). But it will come, even with Kubiak at the helm!

Sure, that was a very questionable HB pass with 12:00 left, but do you use that one play to fire Gary Kubiak? No, I wouldn't.

Like I've said, it's adversity that shows what a team is all about down the road. All I know FOR FACT is that Gary Kubiak had the Houston Texans at 5-3 just before a difficult stretch of games with the Indianapolis Colts (and a bonus roadblock called the Titans). The Texans had never been 5-3 before. Curse the schedule makers for not giving us the Seahawks, Rams and Dolphins after that start instead of Indy TWICE in the next three games then.

These Texans simply were not ready to beat a prime time team like the Indy Colts in any capacity. We can talk out-coached, out-smoached all we want. But the fact is that the Texans still gave a good account of themselves against the Colts. I credit the players' young talent as well as the coaching to keep them motivated for that. The Colts at this point are STILL BETTER. SIMPLY BETTER. PERIOD.

When we saw Owen Daniels go down, the realistic fans knew that development could be a REAL ROADBLOCK to this team's further progress this season. He was a through-the-air bulldozer that kept drives alive and opened up the field BIG TIME.

Hypothetically, how well can the Colts offense perform at PEAK LEVEL for a STRETCH of games WITHOUT Dallas Clark considering their non-existent running game? How well do the Cowboys do without Jason Witten when the run game is struggling? Did you see the Cowboys-Giants today? The Cowboys couldn't run squat so Witten wound up catching over 150 yards. A passing team sans a running game DEFINITELY needs a productive tight end.

So no, I don't blame Gary Kubiak as the main reason for the bad second half of this season. I see the Texans players still playing hard to come back despite being short-handed on offense. Sure, there's boneheaded plays called...but what team out there really doesn't make boneheaded plays (ala Joseph Addai's similar pass attempt)?

Thank goodness they don't let angry short-sighted, instant-gratification fans (who can't seem to correctly take in all the factors) make personnel decisions with pro sports teams.
Click to expand...

I really do appreciate your perspective and I actually agree with you that it's silly to fire a coach over one play call. I also think the injuries to the interior Oline and to OD has derailed this team. And, I also hate it when fans start screaming to fire someone mainly because they are just disappointed in an outcome. However, here is where I disagree with you:

1. Injuries are no longer an excuse. Indy lost their entire secondary and a starting WR for the season and yet they are 12-0. Not only that, but they came back to beat us in a game where they didn't even have Dwight Freeney. The Saints lost their entire secondary the past couple weeks and just destroyed the Pats and are still undefeated. Injuries happen and must be overcome. If Schaub had gone down for the year along with AJ, Ryans, and Mario... then my perception would be different. But, everyone has to deal with injuries. Also, I think the Eugene Wilson injury really affected them yesterday. However, instead of giving the coaching staff a pass, I see it as another illustration of their incompetence: starting Busing! He's been hideous and been making the same mistakes that have cost this team all season. Furthermore, when I think that the coaches were content to start this season with the group of safeties it had (and no Pollard!), then I know they don't know what they are doing.

2. The Chris Brown playcall is symptomatic of a larger issue. It says more about confidence. Tony Dungy said at the beginning of the year that all this team needs to be a contender is confidence. Well, that is still the case and that call in that situation is an illustration of Kubiak's lack of confidence in his team and inability to instill it into his players and his QB... not to mention the fact that he can't even watch the play when it happens. In my mind, the only time you make a ballsy call like that is : 1. out of desperations or 2. when you are supremely confident in it's effectiveness. Well, I'm not sure why they would be desperate on 1st and goal at the 6 and clearly Kubiak wasn't confident in the playcall since he couldn't watch the play!
 
dalemurphy said:
I really do appreciate your perspective and I actually agree with you that it's silly to fire a coach over one play call. I also think the injuries to the interior Oline and to OD has derailed this team. And, I also hate it when fans start screaming to fire someone mainly because they are just disappointed in an outcome. However, here is where I disagree with you:

1. Injuries are no longer an excuse. Indy lost their entire secondary and a starting WR for the season and yet they are 12-0. Not only that, but they came back to beat us in a game where they didn't even have Dwight Freeney. The Saints lost their entire secondary the past couple weeks and just destroyed the Pats and are still undefeated. Injuries happen and must be overcome. If Schaub had gone down for the year along with AJ, Ryans, and Mario... then my perception would be different. But, everyone has to deal with injuries. Also, I think the Eugene Wilson injury really affected them yesterday. However, instead of giving the coaching staff a pass, I see it as another illustration of their incompetence: starting Busing! He's been hideous and been making the same mistakes that have cost this team all season. Furthermore, when I think that the coaches were content to start this season with the group of safeties it had (and no Pollard!), then I know they don't know what they are doing.

2. The Chris Brown playcall is symptomatic of a larger issue. It says more about confidence. Tony Dungy said at the beginning of the year that all this team needs to be a contender is confidence. Well, that is still the case and that call in that situation is an illustration of Kubiak's lack of confidence in his team and inability to instill it into his players and his QB... not to mention the fact that he can't even watch the play when it happens. In my mind, the only time you make a ballsy call like that is : 1. out of desperations or 2. when you are supremely confident in it's effectiveness. Well, I'm not sure why they would be desperate on 1st and goal at the 6 and clearly Kubiak wasn't confident in the playcall since he couldn't watch the play!
Click to expand...


You're right about that but the Colts especially are a veteran team. They just have that moxy...but Peyton Manning is still THE key to that Colts team. Schaub is becoming excellent but he's not there yet. Indy's bread and butter at the end of the day is still offense. Their sharp offense is what won them difficult games like at Miami when Indy's defense could never get off the field. Imagine the Colts going without a clutch component like Dallas Clark for a good stretch of games. The Cowboys HAD to rely on their premier tight end Jason Witten when their running game was squat in NY. And they would have beaten the Giants with that type of ball control had it not been for the defensive and special teams breakdowns.

Losing Owen Daniels (as well as Mike Briesel and Chester Pitts) simply hurts more than we let on. The Texans rely on offense to win, not defense. The defense has improved to middle of the pack but it's not the pillar. At least not yet. I credit Gary Kubiak for getting the defense better than it has been the past couple of years and with getting more playmakers. And yes, they need to get more on that end.

There are simply factors like key injuries that can keep a team from winning that go beyond coaching or some coaching decisions. The Texans still play hard for Kubiak and that is the key thing right there.

The Saints simply have a swagger that the young Texans don't at this point. Sometimes a team that's really good, especially on the offensive end, like the Saints just have the ball literally going their way. I can't compare the Texans to them just yet.

The fact is, the Texans sans Zgonina and Turk, are the youngest NFL team just about. They don't have the experience to overcome adversity. But at this stage, it's about how they deal with it down the road. That's what interests me. Do they still play hard? They do.

I still maintain, it's not coaching that missed two game-closing field goals, an end zone fumble and necessarily a four-and-out at the red zone goal line (where Schaub barely missed Dreesen in the end zone).

Taking chances once in a awhile is what it's all about in the NFL. It's not always about desperation. It can be about throwing off balance or such. Bill Belichick tried it. Joseph Addai tried it. Kubiak tried it with Chris Brown and that HB option thing. Like other Texans fans, I don't agree with that call at all but I'm not going to want to fire Kubiak because of it.

The Jags game had so many bad elements going against us, that it didn't really matter. They still got that TD with 4:00 left to get to 18-23...and if only the defense could've stopped Jones-Drew in the crucial moments at the end. Who's to say? Jax players made the clutch plays at the right moments and at the end. But it's not like the Texans quit...such as the Titans when they got blown out there 30-13. Or the Jags themselves got blown out 40 to 17 at Tenn.

Kubiak had the Texans at 5-3 and they simply had a bad stretch against a Colts team that is just simply better. But I want Kubiak to fix that running game for next year and keep adding pieces to the defense. I know he will do that. Losing Briesel and Pitts, who's to say that there wouldn't have been a rushing game turnaround if they stayed healthy? He did manage a very good rushing game last year, so there's no reason to believe he won't rebuild that.
 
worldlyman said:
Gary Kubiak DID HAVE the Texans at 5-3 just before the Indy 2-in-the-next-3 Gauntlet, did he not?

How soon we forget that. Just BEFORE that Gauntlet of Games, the Texans lost the BEST performing tight end at that point in time!

When a team is struggling with the run, relying on the passing game which had been effective in a big way...losing a top tier tight end certainly affects the on-field dynamics. While the Texans still compile nice yards, they are not the timely yards that we had with Owen Daniels catching everything in between.

And just so it happened, the loss of Daniels came before the first Colts game.

Losses of the premier tight end and two quality OL-men...not Gary Kubiak, are the main factors in the recent struggles. If we still had those two quality EXPERIENCED linemen, who's to say that the running game would not have turned itself around?

All through this year, it's not Kubiak that coached two crucial field goal misses, a goal line fumble and such. Winning is not easy in the NFL and if players don't make the plays at the end of close games, as Bob McNair correctly asserted, winning is all that more difficult.

The Jags game was already distorted having Schaub out for a spell, then being down 17; it's still a credit that the Texans got to 18-23 with 4:00 left (the Titans got their a--es handed on a platter in that same stadium). It was just an uphill battle against a decent Jags team that fell short. This is a game where the lack of Steve Slaton's open field services hurt, on top of not having Owen Daniels, Chester Pitts and Mike Briesel.

The Texans defense is currently one to run interference conditional to a HEALTHY offense dominating things. And clearly the Texans offense is NOT healthy. In fact I give credit to Kubiak for having the Texans offense still moving the ball enough even if they're not at full capacity to beat the Colts, Titans and Jags tough defenses.

Here Texans fans get mad when Kubiak insists on punching it in with Chris Brown...yet when he deems to do something different with Brown (at least), to change things up...there's this "FIRE KUBIAK," or "WHERE'S THAT SOAP" nonsense over one such play that did not work out? Amazing.

Let's not forget these Texans are still young. They don't yet have the veteran moxy to overcome that bad of a start (ala the Colts). But it will come, even with Kubiak at the helm!

Sure, that was a very questionable HB pass with 12:00 left, but do you use that one play to fire Gary Kubiak? No, I wouldn't.

Like I've said, it's adversity that shows what a team is all about down the road. All I know FOR FACT is that Gary Kubiak had the Houston Texans at 5-3 just before a difficult stretch of games with the Indianapolis Colts (and a bonus roadblock called the Titans). The Texans had never been 5-3 before. Curse the schedule makers for not giving us the Seahawks, Rams and Dolphins after that start instead of Indy TWICE in the next three games then.

These Texans simply were not ready to beat a prime time team like the Indy Colts in any capacity. We can talk out-coached, out-smoached all we want. But the fact is that the Texans still gave a good account of themselves against the Colts. I credit the players' young talent as well as the coaching to keep them motivated for that. The Colts at this point are STILL BETTER. SIMPLY BETTER. PERIOD.

When we saw Owen Daniels go down, the realistic fans knew that development could be a REAL ROADBLOCK to this team's further progress this season. He was a through-the-air bulldozer that kept drives alive and opened up the field BIG TIME.

Hypothetically, how well can the Colts offense perform at PEAK LEVEL for a STRETCH of games WITHOUT Dallas Clark considering their non-existent running game? How well do the Cowboys do without Jason Witten when the run game is struggling? Did you see the Cowboys-Giants today? The Cowboys couldn't run squat so Witten wound up catching over 150 yards. A passing team sans a running game DEFINITELY needs a productive tight end.

So no, I don't blame Gary Kubiak as the main reason for the bad second half of this season. I see the Texans players still playing hard to come back despite being short-handed on offense. Sure, there's boneheaded plays called...but what team out there really doesn't make boneheaded plays (ala Joseph Addai's similar pass attempt)?

Thank goodness they don't let angry short-sighted, instant-gratification fans (who can't seem to correctly take in all the factors) make personnel decisions with pro sports teams.
Click to expand...

I was in the same boat as you before yesterday's game, but that game
illustrated everything a lot of anti-Kubiak posters were screaming at
me. I was just too blind to see it. Gary Kubiak went against his own
philosophy with the HB Pass. This is the same guy, when asked about
lining up Casey in the Wildcat, said "We have to worry about OUR cat, before
the wildcat."

Kubiak is ALSO the same guy who REFUSES to allow Marciano to call a
fake, although Joe is one of the best special teams coaches in the game.
Also, calling that play, in that SITUATION (1st and goal at the 5, down
by ELEVEN, with a quarterback who had lead his team a good 60 yards
to be in that position.) You take the ball, and game, out of the hands
of your quarterback, and place it into the hands of your THIRD STRING
runningback, who ALREADY cost you two games with his legs at the
1-yardline!!
 
DexmanC said:
I was in the same boat as you before yesterday's game, but that game
illustrated everything a lot of anti-Kubiak posters were screaming at
me. I was just too blind to see it. Gary Kubiak went against his own
philosophy with the HB Pass. This is the same guy, when asked about
lining up Casey in the Wildcat, said "We have to worry about OUR cat, before
the wildcat."

Kubiak is ALSO the same guy who REFUSES to allow Marciano to call a
fake, although Joe is one of the best special teams coaches in the game.
Also, calling that play, in that SITUATION (1st and goal at the 5, down
by ELEVEN, with a quarterback who had lead his team a good 60 yards
to be in that position.) You take the ball, and game, out of the hands
of your quarterback, and place it into the hands of your THIRD STRING
runningback, who ALREADY cost you two games with his legs at the
1-yardline!!
Click to expand...


Unfortunately, Chris Brown has become our 1st String RB. That may say more about the coaching than that playcall does! They still think he's our best short yardage option... That is truly disturbing!

He's our best short yardage option on 1st down.. that is true.
 
DexmanC said:
I was in the same boat as you before yesterday's game, but that game
illustrated everything a lot of anti-Kubiak posters were screaming at
me. I was just too blind to see it. Gary Kubiak went against his own
philosophy with the HB Pass. This is the same guy, when asked about
lining up Casey in the Wildcat, said "We have to worry about OUR cat, before
the wildcat."

Kubiak is ALSO the same guy who REFUSES to allow Marciano to call a
fake, although Joe is one of the best special teams coaches in the game.
Also, calling that play, in that SITUATION (1st and goal at the 5, down
by ELEVEN, with a quarterback who had lead his team a good 60 yards
to be in that position.) You take the ball, and game, out of the hands
of your quarterback, and place it into the hands of your THIRD STRING
runningback, who ALREADY cost you two games with his legs at the
1-yardline!!
Click to expand...

That game was already an uphill climb when Schaub was out for a spell and the score read 0-17.

Yeah, the HB thing was bad. You are correct that the Texans should have used something more reliable, like a throw to AJ or another RB punch-in like in the first half. I don't agree with the HB pass at all. But I'm not going to call for Kubiak's head for it considering all that's gone.

But my basic assertion is not about one game or one play. I'm talking about the body of this season.

Kubiak had them at 5-3 before going up against an Indy team that nobody else has beaten...and with the loss of a CRUCIAL offensive piece like Owen Daniels just before that gauntlet. Sometimes for a young team like the Texans, the snowball just gets larger.

But they fought hard against those Colts. They showed they had the weapons to fight Indy for a good stretch but in the end, the Colts are just better at this time. Out-coached, out-smoached. As long as we see that it's not like 2005 or 2007 when the Colts had their way. The Texans fought hard, gave them a load even if there was a bad call here or dumb play there.

The Texans should fix their running game...and get some guys that can get after the QB more consistently. I don't blame Kubiak per se for the bad second half of the 2009 season. They need to grow from it and give him his last year. They are finally showing signs of becoming a very, very good team for awhile...but there are always the bitter waters before the sweet for some teams.

Kubiak should stay for his last year.

1. He got the the Texans to 5-3 first time ever before the Indy barrier.
2. The defense has shown consistent life after the first few difficult weeks.
3. He's had the 3 key Texans offensive players in the top 5 stats, first time in Texans history, I believe.

It has gotten better than last year, as these developments prove. One bad stretch against an insurmountable team that pretty much got a snowball rolling against them doesn't tarnish the tangible positives of this year. These Texans even with one win against Indy are not a contender just yet anyway.

The Houston Texans are being built for a good stretch period and not some one or one and a half year wonder like some other teams.
 
Last edited:
worldlyman said:
That game was already an uphill climb when Schaub was out for a spell and the score read 0-17.

Yeah, the HB thing was bad. You are correct that the Texans should have used something more reliable, like a throw to AJ or another RB punch-in like in the first half. I don't agree with the HB pass at all. But I'm not going to call for Kubiak's head for it considering all that's gone.

But my basic assertion is not about one game or one play. I'm talking about the body of this season.

Kubiak had them at 5-3 before going up against an Indy team that nobody else has beaten...and with the loss of a CRUCIAL offensive piece like Owen Daniels just before that gauntlet. Sometimes for a young team like the Texans, the snowball just gets larger.

The Texans should fix their running game...and get some guys that can get after the QB more consistently. I don't blame Kubiak per se for the bad second half of the 2009 season. They need to grow from it and give him his last year. They are finally showing signs of becoming a very, very good team for awhile...but there are always the bitter waters before the sweet for some teams.

1. He got the the Texans to 5-3 first time ever before the Indy barrier.
2. The defense has shown consistent life after the first few difficult weeks.
3. He's had the 3 key Texans offensive players in the top 5 stats, first time in Texans history, I believe.

It has gotten better than last year, as these developments prove. One bad stretch against an insurmountable team that pretty much got a snowball rolling against them doesn't tarnish the tangible positives of this year. These Texans even with one win against Indy are not a contender just yet anyway.

The Houston Texans are being built for a good stretch period and not some one or one and a half year wonder like some other teams.
Click to expand...

The coach's job is to put the players in the best situation to win the game.
The players had PLAYED THEMSELVES TO A CHANCE to lessen the deficit
by 6-8 points. They would have been down 5, or three with over
TWELVE MINUTES left in the game! The coaching staff RIPPED THE
OPPORTUNITY away from the players, to lose the game FOR THEM. It's
inexcusable. Momentum does play a role in football games. It's an emotional
sport. The coach stole the momentum from the Texans and handed to the
Jags with THAT call, in THAT situation. It's not the first time it's happened
to this team this season, but I can't defend the guy who stuck it to his
team again.

I swear. Worldly man sounds like I did just last week. I gave Kubiak till the end of the season,
which unfortunately ended yesterday.
 
You know what, Worldlyman, you're right. Kubiak made the right call.
It's Vonta Leach's fault for missing the block on that cornerback who
fired thru to tackle Brown. If Leach makes that block, then the call doesn't
seem so stupid!

:sarcasm:

2dgu9w2.jpg
 
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