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I Luv The Guy, But Andre Is Done
- Thread starter thetexanator
- Start date
noxiousdog
Rookie
Maybe Posey can't play the Z in O'Brien's offense, and he's not going to beat out Hopkins and Andre?
That would be my guess. Martin and Demeris are just completely different body types.
That would be my guess. Martin and Demeris are just completely different body types.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
I would agree with this. Need a short area speed guy for that position. Damaris seems perfect for the role, but man watching him try to block down field is pitiful. I could also see someone like Trindon Holiday in that role if he could catch.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Every scouting profile emphasized that he had impeccable route running skills. After his Achilles, I was focused on watching his performance.......it was obvious that his route running suffered enormously due to his inability to explode off the line, quickly change speed (takeoff and sudden stops) and sharply cut.
We haven't seen him in quite a while. But I suspect that this may still be a problem........and moreso in OB's scheme.
How do you define "speed guy"?
Welker ran a 4.6 forty & I doubt Edelman was much faster.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
I said short area... I guess I meant short area quickness. Quick and shifty. Not top end speed.
I didn't know the Achilles diminished his skills that badly. Surprised he even made the team.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Drops are (a) subjective and (b) rare by the scorers. But the plot this season is cut AJ so all the sudden he has dropped 52.
I would have predicted 2.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
I'm not saying he's dropped a lot nor do I want to cut him. I just remember at least one being an obvious drop, maybe two.
I understand it's in the eye of the beholder, but dang. Makes me wonder what's considered a drop.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Sorry, I should have designated that response as general rather than to you. Your post was a springboard.
I wouldn't count drops when the ball touches the WR's hand but required an amazing grab. However AJ has dropped a couple that were right in the hands, so I wouldn't trust those numbers.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
As long as they're consistent it gives a point of reference.
I mean, do you really think they have an AJ conspiracy? If not, then other WRs are getting the same when you look at the rankings.
Seegara
Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
You're just saying that 'cause it's true. He also can no longer catch the ball consistently. Let's get rid of him in whatever way we can save the most cap space.
We are getting to the point where posters try to prove how smart/tough on players they are by making stronger and stronger statements to support the dumb hypothesis. The good that comes from it is a few laughs.
noxiousdog
Rookie
It's the new media mentality. It's better to be first than it is to be right.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I'm not sure what you'll are watching... The thread's title is a bit misrepresentative of the central point, which is that Andre Johnson does not have the explosiveness to be a high paid #1 WR anymore. I certainly didn't see any evidence today to refute that hypothesis. I certainly wouldn't want AJ cut from the team right now. If he was injured, it would hurt this team's chances to make a playoff run.
This is a cap management issue. The team needs to make a determination, based on what AJ can still do, how much of their salary cap should be allocated to AJ in 2015 and 2016... and, if the number he is scheduled to receive is greater than his value, they need to decide what to do about it. For the rest of this season, though, here's hoping he helps this team finish strong and enjoys the benefit of improved play at the QB position.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Why are you still in this thread honestly? I challenged you to make a case early on in this thread about why AJ was a top 10 receiver this year and why he is still an elite level type of guy according to you, and you couldn't muster up jack. YOu just ignored and ducked the question several times and have snuck back in here just to bash the thread without adding any type of rebuttal or an explanation for your claims or your vitriol towards the OP for creating the thread. At this point, you're just hacking up flem all over the thread, because you aren't capable of backing up your arguments. If anything should be deleted, it should be your whining posts that didn't have one ounce of substance at all.
And please don't respond again until you can at least attempt to back up your claims about how AJ hasn't lost a thing at the age of 33/34 or whatever he is. Good luck with that.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Dre has lost a step and hell Yeah he Seems to have a lot of critical drops. Hopefully mallet will start a fire in his belly.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I tried explaining this to him earlier, but you're wasting your time. He doesn't understand the cap or player contracts, because AJ's salary is the main reason why this thread exists.
NYTexansFan
Waterboy
How many yards did he have today? How many did he average with Fitz?
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amazing80
Hall of Fame
62.5 with Fitz, 65 today. If after the rest of the games Aj has the same average, I will come back and eat my crow, but I will give it more than 1 game.
68 yds today, averaged 62.5 with Fitz
haven't seen him on many deep middle routes like we used to... Kubiaks offense got him open a lot more imo
Or had him on more deep routes
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Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Fair enough. You do that and I'll give you props. For the record, I don't want you to eat any crow. All of us would rather you dish it out.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
I just had a long post, it got deleted for my profanity. Not re-typing it. I already agree he is slightly over paid and I said its due to his accomplishments he has achieved already. But you're original post said he gets no separation and is done as a receiver, that is far from the truth. Today he had lots of separation. His TALENT level is still elite in this league, even though he has lost a step. His stats are reflective of his poor qb play.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Targets and conversion percentage...
w/Fitz converted 56% of targets
w/Mal converted 78% of targets
Just one game.
And, ummmm, yeah.... he caught that.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2mGn5XCYAA0P5G.jpg
(look at which way his lower body is pointing)
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Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
He doesn't have the same top speed anymore. Hell, he lost that two years ago. I'm not sure how people didn't see that. The last two years he has made a living off of being more of a possession receiver. Especially last season. Last season he was extremely impressive for getting the numbers he did, because he was catching a lot of short passes and getting YAC. You could clearly see the decline in the down hill speed though. AJ was just good enough to get his yards through shorter routes.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
So basically you came back cursing and screaming because you aren't willing to make a case for claims that are pretty far off base?? Gotcha.
Show me where I stated that AJ was done? I never stated that in here anywhere. I stated that he doesn't get separation anymore, and you'd have to be blind not to see that. Either that, or the hero worship is to strong for you to admit that an aging receiver can't run like he used to or you just can't force yourself to admit that you are wrong here. In this same post you are still calling him elite which is something no one around the league would agree with other than some Texans fans with blue and red colored glasses on. He hasn't even been close to elite this season. That doesn't make him a bad receiver by any stretch, but he isn't worth anywhere near what his contract is at this point, and that has been the focal point of all of my arguments in this thread. You are just looking silly to continue arguing this at this point.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
To me it is because Kubiak used more play action double move routes, O.B seems to use virtually no Play action and the WRs seem to rarely use a double move on their routes. Hell with as good as we were running it today i just knew any minute we would run play action and take a deep shot, BUT we never did.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
No there were lots of other points in the post but I dropped a few insults too. I'm not arguing anymore. I could care less what you think. He is clearly a top talent in the league still regardless what you think.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Sorry T but last season he was still being called elite by many all over the NFL, to be fair he has had Fitz throwing him the ball this season until now, New offensive scheme, new QBs, new plays. This is an offense until recently has been limited by the QBs limitations. Let's see what he can do now that he has someone who can sling it before we pack the poor guy up and send him to the old folks home.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I'm not disagreeing with your statement... but AJ actually ran a double move on the first series of the game that sprung him WIDE open, but Mallet underthrew him. Questionable if it would have been a long TD though, as the safety may have caught him. Should have been really big play though.
Under Kubiak, other guys were clearing out for and being decoy for AJ, this year there doesn't seem to be near as much of that
Part of the reason I think because AJ missed precamp work and had bad attitude, has slowed a bit and is clearly having a down year for him
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
That's funny because the game I watched had Mallet running at least three well executed play action passes.
corytx8
Rookie
I have no idea what you are talking about but I saw the use of play action quite a bit today.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Yep, beautiful double move that had him 5 yds behind the db, but had to stop and dive inside to try to catch a ball that many thought he should have...
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
It may well have been more, but I distinctly remember three throws off play action passes because they all targeted receivers 25 yards plus downfield. One to A. Johnson, one to Hopkins and one to Martin.3 out of 30 passes
3 out of 30 passes
He used the play action but he's not near as good at selling it as Schaub was
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
He used the play action but he's not near as good at selling it as Schaub was
Watched a lot of Malletts old college film and he sells it pretty well. To me it is really how OBs offense is ran, we run a majority of stuff from the shot gun, everything looks different. With Kubiak every play/formation basically looked the same so the D couldn't key in on what we were doing.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I agree with this sentiment.
However, when the off-season arrives, and the team has to make decisions about re-signing players and free agent moves, I sure would hate to see the Texans let Kareem Jackson go, fail to address linebacker meaningfully, attempt to lowball Newton or get a RT on the cheap, etc... because of AJ's $17 million cap hit and loyalty for a WR, who used to be elite... especially when Hopkins looks to be an excellent posession/ top end #2 WR.
So you're saying we get rid of our potential HOF WR #1 WR and replace him because we have an excellent #2? So we can keep our #2 CB and RT that many think should be let go anywho? And replace the #1 WR with who?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
So you're saying we get rid of our potential HOF WR #1 WR and replace him because we have an excellent #2? So we can keep our #2 CB and RT that many think should be let go anywho? And replace the #1 WR with who?
Taking a quick look at prospective FA WRs, here is a list of players that we could get for a fraction of AJ's cap cost the next two years:
Eddie Royal
Reggie Wayne
Cecil Shorts
Wes Welker
Miles Austin
or we could go for young talent with upside and similar skill set who would still be less than 1/2 of AJ's cost:
Crabtree
Ken Britt
Cecil Shorts
or we could spend 1/2-2/3 of his cap cost and sign someone like
Maclin
Torrey Smith
Randall Cobb
in order to upgrade the offensive speed.