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How can a call like that happen? honestly

run-david-run

run-david-run

All Pro
Just heard on Fox Sports this ref that blew our call was the guy who called Brady's fumble an incomplete pass! You have to say, if Brady's was not a fumble, than therer is no way that Carr's was a fumble. Unbelivable that the same guy made that call. Really is no excuse, you look at tape for 3 minutes and you call that a fumble :dangit:

I'm out, the more I think abut it the madder I get...

UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
 
I sat with my mouth open just really not knowing how to react. After they began to review the Carr tuck play I watched one replay and happily turned quickly to the Astros game with 100% assurance that when I turned back it we would still have the ball. Apart from holding and PI calls (which are totally subjective for the most part) I dont understand how you could have absoutle IRREFUTABLE evidence that his hand was still on the ball and it was going forward...for christs sake the ball went forward 5 yards. I just cant believe this isnt a bigger deal to anyone, ESPN and other highlight shows. We got absoultely robbed...that was our chance at the game winning drive (with no timeouts and no protection even on prevent you cant honestly expect us to go 80+ in 50 seconds without getting really lucky at the end of the game). I just sat motionless not really knowing how to react to that-even if we hadnt moved the ball after that we punt and its still a 3 point game with 4 minutes and a timeout and a shot for us to stop them on defense. I am still speechless and I have to imagine there must be some kind of former NFL apology issued tomorrow. If someone thinks Im wrong I would like to hear it because I still sick to my stomach.
 
If you don't want to have this problem, don't root for Houston teams. It's a stigma or something. I have my theories, but the fact is that Houston teams are always mistreated by refs, umps, whatever. Same reason they're always disrespected by the media. The media would love Carr (California) if he didn't play in Houston.
 
HJam72 said:
If you don't want to have this problem, don't root for Houston teams. It's a stigma or something. I have my theories, but the fact is that Houston teams are always mistreated by refs, umps, whatever. Same reason they're always disrespected by the media. The media would love Carr (California) if he didn't play in Houston.
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Funny thing is people in California think their is a bias against the West Coast by the East Coast media.

The Texans did get robbed of an opportunity to win the game.
 
LBC_Justin said:
Funny thing is people in California think their is a bias against the West Coast by the East Coast media.
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They're probably right, but only when they play against the east coast specifically and not to near the extent that Houston gets it, IMO.
 
Well, f the media and the refs and anyone else hating and disrespecting Houston teams. This definitely isn't the first time a bogus call like that was made against a team from Houston. But whatever. The refs and media can get booed like Sports Illustrated here in Houston.
 
I tought the call could of gone either way but the Houston should of not put them self in a situation were one ball call decides the game wich the way we were playing we would of been lucky to get a field at best. this style of conservitve football is not going to win games for us.
 
HJam72 said:
If you don't want to have this problem, don't root for Houston teams. It's a stigma or something. I have my theories, but the fact is that Houston teams are always mistreated by refs, umps, whatever. Same reason they're always disrespected by the media. The media would love Carr (California) if he didn't play in Houston.
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you've been watching too many x-files episodes :)
 
aliaspgk said:
I I just cant believe this isnt a bigger deal to anyone, ESPN and other highlight shows.
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They never do. I get pissed because I'll want to see or hear what they have to say and they give us no press, absolutely no coverage at all. They do week to week on NFL channel and still don't talk about the team like they do the others. Either they don't mention us at all, or breeze through the team we have to play/played.
 
Cheroqui said:
They never do. I get pissed because I'll want to see or hear what they have to say and they give us no press, absolutely no coverage at all. They do week to week on NFL channel and still don't talk about the team like they do the others. Either they don't mention us at all, or breeze through the team we have to play/played.
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But it works both ways. David Carr should be getting raked over by the nat'l media the way Tim Couch was, but he's been given a pass.

Sure, they didn't make a big deal out of the call (and they should have) but they also aren't saying anything about Carr's lack of progression (which they should)

I get the feeling that the nat'l media honestly doesn't care about this team. Of course, they will when you start winning, but right now they put your team as a footnote every chance they get.
 
Youngstown Colt said:
I get the feeling that the nat'l media honestly doesn't care about this team. Of course, they will when you start winning, but right now they put your team as a footnote every chance they get.
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That's exactly it. It's the same story for every Houston franchise. We are almost always in the shadow of Yankees, Red Sox, Lakers, Patriots, Eagles, etc. Even our winning teams are on the second page compared to those teams. I remember a timeline of the NBA mentioned a bunch of teams winning championships, and had the Bulls etc on there, but not a single mention of Houstons back to backs. It didn't even surprise me, to be honest. The reason Carr has been given a free pass for so long is partially because the media "experts" care so little about this team that getting their facts straight or putting intelligent backing into their opinions, really isn't that important.
 
That call was just one of many bad calls today on both sides... one of the worst called games I've ever seen. Holding where there was no holding, pass interference where there was no pass interference.... amazing.

If the refs are gonna party like that the night before a game, they should at least have the courtesy to invite us.
 
aliaspgk said:
I sat with my mouth open just really not knowing how to react. After they began to review the Carr tuck play I watched one replay and happily turned quickly to the Astros game with 100% assurance that when I turned back it we would still have the ball. Apart from holding and PI calls (which are totally subjective for the most part) I dont understand how you could have absoutle IRREFUTABLE evidence that his hand was still on the ball and it was going forward...for christs sake the ball went forward 5 yards. I just cant believe this isnt a bigger deal to anyone, ESPN and other highlight shows. We got absoultely robbed...that was our chance at the game winning drive (with no timeouts and no protection even on prevent you cant honestly expect us to go 80+ in 50 seconds without getting really lucky at the end of the game). I just sat motionless not really knowing how to react to that-even if we hadnt moved the ball after that we punt and its still a 3 point game with 4 minutes and a timeout and a shot for us to stop them on defense. I am still speechless and I have to imagine there must be some kind of former NFL apology issued tomorrow. If someone thinks Im wrong I would like to hear it because I still sick to my stomach.
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????? It had to do with the inimidation of being on Cincy's home field. Myself, the Texan offense,along with every TV comentator, radio comentators, fans, my dogs and cats, thought it was a forward pass. His arm was going forward, his hand still on the ball, and the ball went straight out and hit a lineman. Go figure how that ***** could call that play a fumble. It took the game away from us, knocked the wind out of our sails. BTW-they said that was the same crew that screwed up the "famous coin toss" too! Tar and feather them I say!!!!!!!

bobby119C :brickwall
 
There were bad calls on both teams. That intentional grounding penalty was a b.s. call that you guys got. Probably saved a touchdown. The procedure penalty that brought back the TD was b.s. Saved you another score. Guys, I agree that you got a bad call on the turnover, but come on. Get over it.

Without the zebras, you guys would have been beat worse. :penalty:
 
Youngstown Colt said:
But it works both ways. David Carr should be getting raked over by the nat'l media the way Tim Couch was, but he's been given a pass.

Sure, they didn't make a big deal out of the call (and they should have) but they also aren't saying anything about Carr's lack of progression (which they should)
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That is a great point. Harrington, Boller and several other young QB's are criticized when they play poorly, but for some reason Carr gets a pass.
 
The reffing was horrible the whole game and the Bengals definitely got the overall benefit of it but the Texans still didn't make a few key plays here and there when we needed it. That pass interference on Faggins that set up the Bengals only TD was garbage, and the fumble at the end was probably the worst call I've seen in an NFL game, possibly topped only by the infamous tuck rule that allowed the Patriots to get into the Super Bowl, and it was the same referee that made the call. I have to assume the ref didn't want to admit that he blew the call, but either way if our O-lineman had fallen on the ball rather than standing there and letting the Bengals get it then we wouldn't be arguing about it anyways. It hurts that our possible game-tying or winning drive was taken away from us like that and that the pass interference gave them a first down at the one yard line in the first half, but we still didn't make quite enough plays to win this one. We have the Titans coming in town this weekend and with the offense looking much improved this should be a great game for us against the Titans poor defense, and then we get to go to Seattle to face an equally poor defense, so we should win these next two and be back on track.
 
WhoDeyBengals said:
There were bad calls on both teams. That intentional grounding penalty was a b.s. call that you guys got. Probably saved a touchdown. The procedure penalty that brought back the TD was b.s. Saved you another score. Guys, I agree that you got a bad call on the turnover, but come on. Get over it.

Without the zebras, you guys would have been beat worse. :penalty:
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The calls that you speak of were in fact penalties. The procedure call was an illegal formation call and was correct the wr covered the te. The Grounding was grounding because the ball did not get back to the line. The fact is these are the rules. The fumble that was bs.
 
as for that intentional grounding, it was a good call because he ran back at least very close to within the tackles and the ball came no where near the line of scrimmage and no Bengal receiver was within 15 yards of it, not to mention the line got away with a hold on Peek on that play.
 
WhoDeyBengals said:
There were bad calls on both teams. That intentional grounding penalty was a b.s. call that you guys got. Probably saved a touchdown. The procedure penalty that brought back the TD was b.s. Saved you another score. Guys, I agree that you got a bad call on the turnover, but come on. Get over it.

Without the zebras, you guys would have been beat worse. :penalty:
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it was bad on both sides. the grounding & procedural calls you mentioned, the "fumble", the pass interference by faggins, the bogus holding calls & non calls (steinbech got flagged during a textbook block and shortly after no call as a lineman is BEHIND payne with his arms around his stomach) & weak offensive pass interference calls on both teams. we can only complain now about what could've been, but it could've been a very good game.
 
MorKnolle said:
as for that intentional grounding, it was a good call because he ran back at least very close to within the tackles and the ball came no where near the line of scrimmage and no Bengal receiver was within 15 yards of it, not to mention the line got away with a hold on Peek on that play.
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i'll concede the grounding call because there was infact a receiver in the area.
 
It was a great call. I mean all fumbles spiral for 5 yards. I actually went back and looked at the game. It turns out that Carr didn't have 1 fumble, he had 9 more that the ref missed. Some were so bad that they landed 20-30 yards away from him. I guess we got lucky
 
aliaspgk said:
I just cant believe this isnt a bigger deal to anyone, ESPN and other highlight shows.
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I saw the play on ESPN and Tom Jackson went on a 20 second rant about how terrible the call was. What do you want them to do; devote a whole Sportscenter to it and demand an investigation from the commissioners office?

The Texans have enought problems without worrying about perceived media slights.
 
ojthecat said:
The calls that you speak of were in fact penalties. The procedure call was an illegal formation call and was correct the wr covered the te. The Grounding was grounding because the ball did not get back to the line. The fact is these are the rules. The fumble that was bs.
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Um, on the grounding penalty, you're 100% wrong. Rudi Johnson was within 5 yards of where the ball landed. Take your homer blinders off.
 
WhoDeyBengals said:
Um, on the grounding penalty, you're 100% wrong. Rudi Johnson was within 5 yards of where the ball landed. Take your homer blinders off.
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1. Intentional grounding of a forward pass is a foul: loss of down and 10 yards from previous spot if passer is in the field of play or loss of down at the spot of the foul if it occurs more than 10 yards behind the line or safety if passer is in his own end zone when ball is released.

2. Intentional grounding will be called when a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion.

3. Intentional grounding will not be called when a passer, while out of the pocket and facing an imminent loss of yardage, throws a pass that lands at or beyond the line of scrimmage, even if no offensive player(s) have a realistic chance to catch the ball (including if the ball lands out of bounds over the sideline or end line).

Would you say Rudi Johnson had a realistic chance of catching the pass?
 
Okay robbed by the ref or robbed by todd wade who got schooled by atleast 2 steps by that cincy player.......... :challenge :challenge
 
WhoDeyBengals said:
Um, on the grounding penalty, you're 100% wrong. Rudi Johnson was within 5 yards of where the ball landed. Take your homer blinders off.
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On the replay it did show Rudi coming back for the ball. I'm not sure where he was when Palmer threw it but he did end up within 10 yards of the ball. I felt that that call kinda washed with the PI call on Faggins. Faggins had good coverage. Both were bad calls IMO.

All of the calls pale compared to one where the officials had 2 chances to get it right and failed both times.
 
Bottle-O-Bud said:
Okay robbed by the ref or robbed by todd wade who got schooled by atleast 2 steps by that cincy player.......... :challenge :challenge
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Didn't you read the feature article in the Chronicle during training camp? Todd Wade is so good he doesn't even have to compete for a starting position. According to that write-up, we're solid at RT, LT is the only problem.
 
chuckm said:
1. Intentional grounding of a forward pass is a foul: loss of down and 10 yards from previous spot if passer is in the field of play or loss of down at the spot of the foul if it occurs more than 10 yards behind the line or safety if passer is in his own end zone when ball is released.

2. Intentional grounding will be called when a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion.

3. Intentional grounding will not be called when a passer, while out of the pocket and facing an imminent loss of yardage, throws a pass that lands at or beyond the line of scrimmage, even if no offensive player(s) have a realistic chance to catch the ball (including if the ball lands out of bounds over the sideline or end line).

Would you say Rudi Johnson had a realistic chance of catching the pass?
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The measure of whether or not an offensive player has a realistic chance of catching the ball is determined by whether or not there are any eligible players in the vicinity of where the pass lands. The Bengals had a player in the vicinity of where the pass landed. Therefore, the intentional grounding penalty was a bad call.

Furthermore, the pass interference penalty on Faggins was a questionable call - but there were so many ticky tack penalties called in this game, I'm angry for both sides. That officiating staff needs to be dragged into the streets of Houston and beaten severely. Preferably by a firing squad armed with penalty flags (those things hurt if you get hit with one!).

Anyhow - good luck with the rest of your season.
 
WhoDeyBengals said:
The measure of whether or not an offensive player has a realistic chance of catching the ball is determined by whether or not there are any eligible players in the vicinity of where the pass lands. The Bengals had a player in the vicinity of where the pass landed. Therefore, the intentional grounding penalty was a bad call.
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Remember, the pass never made it past the line of scrimmage. That call was questionable as well, but it wasn't as blatantly horrible of a call as the fumble.
 
TEXANS84 said:
Remember, the pass never made it past the line of scrimmage. That call was questionable as well, but it wasn't as blatantly horrible of a call as the fumble.
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It doesn't have to if an eligible receiver is in the area...and there was.
 
At least you all didn't have to see Carr taking more sacks if they would have kept possesion. It was like your offensive line had stopped playing the last few drives.
 
WhoDeyBengals said:
Did that happen?

I hear a lot of "what if"'s here.
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Typical response from the benefactor.

"What if's" result from doubts. Doubts result from refs reviewing a play and trying to explain "we did not see what we saw". To be fair I'm not suggesting its 100% Vegas, but I am saying its unfortunate you have to consider these things when stunts like yesterday are pulled.

Now if you were equally fair you might agree that refs don't have 100% control of the outcome. You are correct...the Bengals did not score a TD, but the opportunity was there and put on a silver platter!
 
gallery051002-15.jpg
 
That shot looks more like a fumble than an inc pass. The ball didn't come out until the elbow was already hit.
 
stop complaining about one play, I agree with the refs when there wasn't enough evidence to overturn the call. It looks more like he's pushing the ball with his palm without his fingers even around it... thus is being a fumble. The bengals got screwed on big plays as well, it really does even out.
 
At least Carr's tackles were close by to support him. (See previous picture)
 
I went over the "fumble/inc pass" and it seems to me like his arm was moving forward at contact. He was trying to get a pass off, it shouldn't be relevant if it goes 1 yard or 100. He couldn't get any kind of follow through though so the pass was extremely weak and his hand hit it as it left his possesion. I still think it was an incomplete pass.

Rudi Johnson was "kind of" in the area, but honestly he comes in at the end of the frame after Palmer has drilled it into the dirt. He wasn't trying to complete a pass at all. He was trying to bail himself out of a sack after trying to do his best Vick impression.
 
ledzeppelin269 said:
Rudi Johnson was "kind of" in the area, but honestly he comes in at the end of the frame after Palmer has drilled it into the dirt. He wasn't trying to complete a pass at all. He was trying to bail himself out of a sack after trying to do his best Vick impression.
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That's a homer take. Reverse it and you say Carr has a guy in the area. Everyone dumps passes like that. :homer:
 
Vinny said:
That's a homer take. Reverse it and you say Carr has a guy in the area. Everyone dumps passes like that. :homer:
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Actually, watch the NFL films highlights of the game yesterday on the Texans front page. You'd be surprised at how far back Rudi was at the time. I'd say at least 10+ yards, and its decieving because he was running towards the ball bouncing.

It also has good slowed down version of the Carr fumble from different angles.
 
10 yards is close enough. I argued a play with a wider miss with Carr at hpf on my week 1 playsheet, there was really not a need for INT grounding on that one or this one (carr wasn't called on the one I'm talking about but he missed by a wider margin).
 
If you squint your eyes and turn your head to the right (and don't forget to dim the lights), then - wait. nope. still looks like an incomplete pass.
 
Cheroqui said:
They never do. I get pissed because I'll want to see or hear what they have to say and they give us no press, absolutely no coverage at all. They do week to week on NFL channel and still don't talk about the team like they do the others. Either they don't mention us at all, or breeze through the team we have to play/played.
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I understand that Detroit had a worse situation than we did, where the receiver caught the ball for a touchdown, but the instant replay overruled the TD. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/peter_king/10/03/mmqb.week4/index.html

I think this is the reason Houston's instant replay woes are being ignored.
 
Which part of the ball, arm, or hand did not go forward? Its really amusing that some can defend the call or that there are that many fans unfamiliar with the rule book. Its like saying there was no facemask after watching a slow motion replay of someone getting their head ripped off by the facemask...nope, play stands. The refs had been proven earlier that they were blind with a challenge. Maybe the ego could not take 2 for 2? Another motive perhaps? If this game was the primetime game would the same call had been made?

Once the zebra looked at the replay beyond 30 sec.s it was quite clear he was more concerned with the proper spot and we were about to get the shaft. I changed the station to the Stros to avoid hearing the ref explain that the sky is really purple...
 
what everyone is missing in this analysis is this IT IS THE SAME REFERREE WHO HAS NOW SCREWED UP NOT ONCE(Brady incomplete pass/fumble), NOT TWICE (coin toss debacle), BUT NOW, THREE TIMES(Carr incomplete pass/fumble)---AND HE IS STILL COLLECTING A PAYCHECK AFTER EVERY GAME

Until the NFL has full time Referee's who actually are accountable and the NFL is willing to actually FIRE one of them for incompetence, this will continue. Talk about a 'Good ol Boys club' of looking the other way group of imbeciles.
 
oso said:
I understand that Detroit had a worse situation than we did, where the receiver caught the ball for a touchdown, but the instant replay overruled the TD. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/peter_king/10/03/mmqb.week4/index.html

I think this is the reason Houston's instant replay woes are being ignored.
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Why can't instant replay be used in the way it's supposed to be used. I'm beginning to think its for commercial purposes only. Its tainted year in and year out. Is this the NFL or boxing?
 
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