Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

How bad is it?

This is why you trade Clowney, Watt, Merciless, Miller and Hopkins for high draft picks. Draft is deep in Oline talent. Protect Watson first, then build your defense and put weapons around him. 2 year rebuild tops, but McNair, Ricky and BoB don't have the nuts to do it.

The problem with that is this crew of talent evaluators will blow those picks because they suck at talent evaluating. Yeah, they'll hit on a 1st rounder where there's a higher percentage of getting it right, but beyond that it's been pretty blah.

So until that brain trust changes, whoever it is, you can't even have hope in a rebuild.
 
It's not really very complicated. The problem is and always has been our GM. We can never move forward until he is replaced.
Sadly, it doesn't look like that will ever happen.
 
15966124_10154271491647475_5551013572583994234_n.jpg
 
Has anybody taken a hard look at Watson? I love the kid but he's downright frail. He's a thin little thing on pin legs. I mean, just look at him and compare with other QBs in the league. Can he put some meat on those legs?
 
This is why you trade Clowney, Watt, Merciless, Miller and Hopkins for high draft picks. Draft is deep in Oline talent. Protect Watson first, then build your defense and put weapons around him. 2 year rebuild tops, but McNair, Ricky and BoB don't have the nuts to do it.

I can agree with this with the exception of Hopkins. They won't bring enough in trade to replace them in talent. You have to figure salary cap in...
 
Nothing against O'Brien, but I think McNair did us no favors hiring a coach that didn't fit the team he had been building. We wasted years replacing Ben Jones, Chris Myers, & Brandon Brooks when we should have been trying to find replacements for Newton... & Duane Brown.

Or maybe O'Brien sold him a bill of goods, it did look like we were going to incorporate the outside zone running that first year. Then it looked like O'Brien changed his mind... & couldnt make up his mind. Thankfully Crennel was able to keep on keeping on. I doubt we'd have been 9-7 the first three years otherwise.

The inherent problem is an owner that was not a football man and had no football background when he bought the team. He doesn't know what he's building other than a great marketing company. Maybe that's for the best, but he needs to figure out how to hire competent football minds to do it.

He hired Casserly based on a resume built on Joe Gibbs. He hired Capers because he had already been a HC of an expansion team with the Panthers. I'm convinced that the other owners' recommendations of these two were the proverbial "kick me" sign on the new guy's back.

It was fun for three seasons while we still had that new team smell, but time to rebuild after 2-14 pursuant to company policy.

Kubiak had a solid asst. coach resume and a great feel good hometown story. Apparently he also got the experience that non-football-minded McNair thought he needed between 2001 and 2006. Of course, the conditions of employment was to waste the first year of his head coaching career by trying to fix a broken Carr (bless his heart). And oh yeah, help hire a GM. Thank Gary for Rick Smith.

Fast forward 8 seasons, the Special Friends of Gary program at DC, and eventually listening to a Houston legend about hiring his son as DC, and McNair finally has the much coveted skins on the wall. Small ones, but still better than the 20 year drought the Saints experienced. I'm thankful for it as a fan, though. I'm not sure how Saints fans endured two decades without a winning record.

Unfortunately, 2-14 reared it's ugly head again (which ended up being one of the best things that ever happened to Gary Kubiak in hindsight). Company policy dictates that you lose your coaching gig at 2-14. Bye, Gary!

So, at that point, McNair was not sure what to do, because everything his successful business acumen had told him about resumes and previous experience had failed him.

He did get a new stepson, though, who seemed to act like he knows about football, and, most importantly, he liked Cal!. . .errr. . .I mean, he's trustworthy. Yeah, that part is important. MOST IMPORTANT, so let's keep him around for at least 15 years.

Then the boardroom braintrust of Bob, Cal, and Rick had to figure out what they wanted in a new HC. Previous HC experience is important (apparently at any level). Uncle Bob really liked the way his buddy Robert Kraft does things, so maybe take someone from that coaching tree (in spite of no edible fruit EVER coming from that tree in the past). Along comes Bill O'Brien to fill that need.

It was three blind mice trying to play real world Madden franchise mode.

Regrettably, now we are facing an inevitable 3-13 record, and this is a critical moment for Bob McNair and his hapless Texans. While O'Brien has added some skins to the wall with the team that mostly Gary and Wade built, he's got a potty mouth, is mean to his stepson, and doesn't know how to find a QB. Typically, a 3-13 record would usher in a coaching change for McNair (company policy!), especially under the previously mentioned circumstances.

The McNairs and stepson are at a crossroads right now. Hiring yet another head coach is another traumatic experience. . .I swear if they bring in Lovie Smith. . .I'm just not sure what I'll do beyond laughing maniacally and begin barking at the moon. . .

The problem is that all of the above coaches probably talk great football to someone that does not have a deep background in it.

Has anybody taken a hard look at Watson? I love the kid but he's downright frail. He's a thin little thing on pin legs. I mean, just look at him and compare with other QBs in the league. Can he put some meat on those legs?

Same thing was said about Teddy Bridgewater and he. . .errr. . .crap.
 
This is why you trade Clowney, Watt, Merciless, Miller and Hopkins for high draft picks. Draft is deep in Oline talent. Protect Watson first, then build your defense and put weapons around him. 2 year rebuild tops, but McNair, Ricky and BoB don't have the nuts to do it.
10-Billy-Madison-quotes.gif
 
The inherent problem is an owner that was not a football man and had no football background when he bought the team. He doesn't know what he's building other than a great marketing company. Maybe that's for the best, but he needs to figure out how to hire competent football minds to do it.

He hired Casserly based on a resume built on Joe Gibbs. He hired Capers because he had already been a HC of an expansion team with the Panthers. I'm convinced that the other owners' recommendations of these two were the proverbial "kick me" sign on the new guy's back.

It was fun for three seasons while we still had that new team smell, but time to rebuild after 2-14 pursuant to company policy.

Kubiak had a solid asst. coach resume and a great feel good hometown story. Apparently he also got the experience that non-football-minded McNair thought he needed between 2001 and 2006. Of course, the conditions of employment was to waste the first year of his head coaching career by trying to fix a broken Carr (bless his heart). And oh yeah, help hire a GM. Thank Gary for Rick Smith.

Fast forward 8 seasons, the Special Friends of Gary program at DC, and eventually listening to a Houston legend about hiring his son as DC, and McNair finally has the much coveted skins on the wall. Small ones, but still better than the 20 year drought the Saints experienced. I'm thankful for it as a fan, though. I'm not sure how Saints fans endured two decades without a winning record.

Unfortunately, 2-14 reared it's ugly head again (which ended up being one of the best things that ever happened to Gary Kubiak in hindsight). Company policy dictates that you lose your coaching gig at 2-14. Bye, Gary!

So, at that point, McNair was not sure what to do, because everything his successful business acumen had told him about resumes and previous experience had failed him.

He did get a new stepson, though, who seemed to act like he knows about football, and, most importantly, he liked Cal!. . .errr. . .I mean, he's trustworthy. Yeah, that part is important. MOST IMPORTANT, so let's keep him around for at least 15 years.

Then the boardroom braintrust of Bob, Cal, and Rick had to figure out what they wanted in a new HC. Previous HC experience is important (apparently at any level). Uncle Bob really liked the way his buddy Robert Kraft does things, so maybe take someone from that coaching tree (in spite of no edible fruit EVER coming from that tree in the past). Along comes Bill O'Brien to fill that need.

It was three blind mice trying to play real world Madden franchise mode.

Regrettably, now we are facing an inevitable 3-13 record, and this is a critical moment for Bob McNair and his hapless Texans. While O'Brien has added some skins to the wall with the team that mostly Gary and Wade built, he's got a potty mouth, is mean to his stepson, and doesn't know how to find a QB. Typically, a 3-13 record would usher in a coaching change for McNair (company policy!), especially under the previously mentioned circumstances.

The McNairs and stepson are at a crossroads right now. Hiring yet another head coach is another traumatic experience. . .I swear if they bring in Lovie Smith. . .I'm just not sure what I'll do beyond laughing maniacally and begin barking at the moon. . .

The problem is that all of the above coaches probably talk great football to someone that does not have a deep background in it.



Same thing was said about Teddy Bridgewater and he. . .errr. . .crap.

Eloquent and spot on.

Sad isn't it
 
The inherent problem is an owner that was not a football man and had no football background when he bought the team. He doesn't know what he's building other than a great marketing company. Maybe that's for the best, but he needs to figure out how to hire competent football minds to do it.

He hired Casserly based on a resume built on Joe Gibbs. He hired Capers because he had already been a HC of an expansion team with the Panthers. I'm convinced that the other owners' recommendations of these two were the proverbial "kick me" sign on the new guy's back.

It was fun for three seasons while we still had that new team smell, but time to rebuild after 2-14 pursuant to company policy.

Kubiak had a solid asst. coach resume and a great feel good hometown story. Apparently he also got the experience that non-football-minded McNair thought he needed between 2001 and 2006. Of course, the conditions of employment was to waste the first year of his head coaching career by trying to fix a broken Carr (bless his heart). And oh yeah, help hire a GM. Thank Gary for Rick Smith.

Fast forward 8 seasons, the Special Friends of Gary program at DC, and eventually listening to a Houston legend about hiring his son as DC, and McNair finally has the much coveted skins on the wall. Small ones, but still better than the 20 year drought the Saints experienced. I'm thankful for it as a fan, though. I'm not sure how Saints fans endured two decades without a winning record.

Unfortunately, 2-14 reared it's ugly head again (which ended up being one of the best things that ever happened to Gary Kubiak in hindsight). Company policy dictates that you lose your coaching gig at 2-14. Bye, Gary!

So, at that point, McNair was not sure what to do, because everything his successful business acumen had told him about resumes and previous experience had failed him.

He did get a new stepson, though, who seemed to act like he knows about football, and, most importantly, he liked Cal!. . .errr. . .I mean, he's trustworthy. Yeah, that part is important. MOST IMPORTANT, so let's keep him around for at least 15 years.

Then the boardroom braintrust of Bob, Cal, and Rick had to figure out what they wanted in a new HC. Previous HC experience is important (apparently at any level). Uncle Bob really liked the way his buddy Robert Kraft does things, so maybe take someone from that coaching tree (in spite of no edible fruit EVER coming from that tree in the past). Along comes Bill O'Brien to fill that need.

It was three blind mice trying to play real world Madden franchise mode.

Regrettably, now we are facing an inevitable 3-13 record, and this is a critical moment for Bob McNair and his hapless Texans. While O'Brien has added some skins to the wall with the team that mostly Gary and Wade built, he's got a potty mouth, is mean to his stepson, and doesn't know how to find a QB. Typically, a 3-13 record would usher in a coaching change for McNair (company policy!), especially under the previously mentioned circumstances.

The McNairs and stepson are at a crossroads right now. Hiring yet another head coach is another traumatic experience. . .I swear if they bring in Lovie Smith. . .I'm just not sure what I'll do beyond laughing maniacally and begin barking at the moon. . .

The problem is that all of the above coaches probably talk great football to someone that does not have a deep background in it.



Same thing was said about Teddy Bridgewater and he. . .errr. . .crap.

McNair's major problem was taking the advice of his competitors and fellow billionaires and thinking they would lead him down the golden brick rd. He listened when they told him to hire Casserly/Capers... and that they were 'on the right track' etc...

No one he wants to listen to has told him to hire the right guy and get out of the way because none of those guys want him to succeed.

He needs to stop being the 'new kid on the block'
 
McNair's major problem was taking the advice of his competitors and fellow billionaires and thinking they would lead him down the golden brick rd. He listened when they told him to hire Casserly/Capers... and that they were 'on the right track' etc...

No one he wants to listen to has told him to hire the right guy and get out of the way because none of those guys want him to succeed.

He needs to stop being the 'new kid on the block'

Yep. Pro sports is a cut-throat business, and you'd better be a shark to swim with the sharks. The championship owners of any sport do not allow nepotistic attitude dictate who to keep around if there is potential to upgrade.

Status quo is safe and comfortable for a profitable business. But is that all this is to the McNairs? He talks the talk, but inevitably, truth comes from walking the walk.
 
Your statement on Rick is hardly secret (and I generally agree), but the offensive line woes fall more on your friend O'Brien. Smith is a glorified gopher, he doesn't demolish a system unless someone tells him to. O'B inherited 3 probowlers on the offensive line, not including Brandon Brooks. With the release of Brown (because ethics are more important than winning - criminals are ok), we're now down to our standout centers who's claim to fame is rarely getting trucked.

Where are those pro bowlers you were talking about?
 
Yep. Pro sports is a cut-throat business, and you'd better be a shark to swim with the sharks. The championship owners of any sport do not allow nepotistic attitude dictate who to keep around if there is potential to upgrade.

Status quo is safe and comfortable for a profitable business. But is that all this is to the McNairs? He talks the talk, but inevitably, truth comes from walking the walk.

Amen

To answer your question, yes that's what the McNairs are all about. I've been saying this since 2010.
 
Your statement on Rick is hardly secret (and I generally agree), but the offensive line woes fall more on your friend O'Brien. Smith is a glorified gopher, he doesn't demolish a system unless someone tells him to. O'B inherited 3 probowlers on the offensive line, not including Brandon Brooks. With the release of Brown (because ethics are more important than winning - criminals are ok), we're now down to our standout centers who's claim to fame is rarely getting trucked.

So, BOB'S responsible for acquiring the talent for the OL?

OK, but that's not what BOB has said in the past.
 
It' so bad

I can't watch anymore. It's awful to see.
Nothing remotely entertaining

The game day thread is all I need. And it's so much more entertaining
 
Yep. Pro sports is a cut-throat business, and you'd better be a shark to swim with the sharks. The championship owners of any sport do not allow nepotistic attitude dictate who to keep around if there is potential to upgrade.

Status quo is safe and comfortable for a profitable business. But is that all this is to the McNairs? He talks the talk, but inevitably, truth comes from walking the walk.

McNair is Elmer Fudd and the rest of the league is Buggs Bunny . They're not going to tell him how to win anymore than you're going to tell a novice at the poker table not to bet so high .

In one of your post above you said Casserly road Gibbs coat tails , he also road Bobby Beathards . Bob , Cal , and Rick want to copy teams that are successful but that means the league is adapting to that successful system and another innovator is waiting in the wings . The acceptation to the rule is you have Tom Brady , Joe Montana or insane talent like the 70's Steelers or the 90's Cowboys .
 
Assuming Watson is even in the neighborhood of what he showed in 4-5 games this year, the Texans have little to no chance of outright sucking for that many years. The NFL is much more about not being totally awful in your worst area and being able to cover your other warts with a handful of difference makers. Seattle has had a below average OL for how long? The Pats always have some area that really not that good. Is there any other team in the league that is not some version of up and down (save the two or three awful ones)?

This is very true and you can’t go into a season with one or two groups that are god awful.
 
My point is, where are those guys? Brooks, Jones, the guys you mentioned were all moved or not re-signed.

Does anyone really believe OB signed off on that and then the subsequent follow up?

I think that was Scooters point... they are gone with no adequate replacements. Does that fall on OB or RS? Both I'm thinking
 
I think that was Scooters point... they are gone with no adequate replacements. Does that fall on OB or RS? Both I'm thinking

Yep. I think it is indicative of ALL the decision makers. Unfortunately, only one of them will probably take the fall, and the other half of that team most likely has a lifetime 'get out of jail free' card to avoid accountability.

When you've got a player like Watson, provided he can stay healthy, the owner should do everything possible to put the BEST at every position from the GM on down. Watson is the kind of player that has the skillset and intangibles to play championship football, but his type of play can also cover up a lot of deficiencies of a team.
 
It is my opinion that an offensive coach would not prefer to get rid of good players on the offensive line in exchange for journeymen being paid $3M per year, especially when that coach has repeatedly pointed out that all he does is coach the team. He said it last year and again this year when asked about Kaepernick.
 
My point is, where are those guys? Brooks, Jones, the guys you mentioned were all moved or not re-signed.

Does anyone really believe OB signed off on that and then the subsequent follow up?
I put that on RS. Every coach wants an All Pro at every position. The GMs realize the infeasibility of that, in a hard salary cap era, and have to have a keen eye for talent to stock a roster with enough top tier talent to excel and enough mid tier talent to have good depth. RS does very well at the top tier level but is abysmal in the mid rounds.
 
Not sure, but I think he was referring to Chris Meyers, Wade Smith and now Duane Brown

Those guys are retired and good riddance to Brown. What hurt was Ricky giving Newton that contract extension and letting Brooks go and replacing them with turds like Gio and Allen in addition to busty XSF.

This is just another case of fail on Ricky's part and not at all surprising.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JB
I think that was Scooters point... they are gone with no adequate replacements. Does that fall on OB or RS? Both I'm thinking

Both.

OBrien said they have never taken a disagreement to McNair. He said Rick wouldn't get them someone they don't want. He had an interview with Mad Radio before the season that went into more detail. I have the link if you want it. He said he and Rick have a great relationship.

When he was hired did anyone doubt that Rick just got the players coaches wanted? We knew Kubiak and Wade picked out guys for their system.

We believed the same was true of Obrien until the moves started blowing up and he'd give vague quotes or leaks about how he didn't want certain players or even that maybe had nothing to do with the roster at all.

And why would Rick take that responsibility anyway and bring over a bunch of New England retreads? Why would he deviate from what he did with Kubiak if everything he did was great and they just needed better coaching? And how come the defense was good for so long? (Crennel was picking guys for defense imo)

I think OBrien is the one who wanted to be aggressive in free agency and draft, basically overpaying for a lot of guys who didn't work out while dismantling the talent we had here.

But Rick went along so they should both be gone.
 
My point is, where are those guys? Brooks, Jones, the guys you mentioned were all moved or not re-signed.

Does anyone really believe OB signed off on that and then the subsequent follow up?

Why not?

I don't remember many people complaining about those moves when they happened.

We can probably dig up old threads.
 
Why not?

I don't remember many people complaining about those moves when they happened.

We can probably dig up old threads.

I remember people being upset about Brooks going, and then obviously the last few drafts and set of FAs. I’m not sure about the others.

As to why not, OB is an offensive coach. It doesn’t make sense for him to consistently choose to let good OL go and not replace them with anything but journeymen. The only guy they added for significant money was Allen, who like many draft picks and FA acquisitions of the last 10 years, was injured before even arriving.
 
I remember people being upset about Brooks going, and then obviously the last few drafts and set of FAs. I’m not sure about the others.

As to why not, OB is an offensive coach. It doesn’t make sense for him to consistently choose to let good OL go and not replace them with anything but journeymen. The only guy they added for significant money was Allen, who like many draft picks and FA acquisitions of the last 10 years, was injured before even arriving.

Here's the Jeff Allen thread. People started off questioning it but by the end most people were happy with the Brooks replacement. No one was predicting disaster.

http://www.texanstalk.com/threads/jeff-allen-og-agrees-4-years-28-million.110281/page-4
 
Here's the Jeff Allen thread. People started off questioning it but by the end most people were happy with the Brooks replacement. No one was predicting disaster.

http://www.texanstalk.com/threads/jeff-allen-og-agrees-4-years-28-million.110281/page-4

Probably because most people don’t focus on the OL when they watch other teams. I don’t, atleast not much. Doubt you’ll find many people say anything definitely about an OL signing in FA. You’ll find many more who know about our own OL and how they’ve performed.

Many people were upset about Brooks. When Allen was signed, I’m sure many hoped it meant that we were getting an equal player for close to the same $. Good thing we aren’t paid to make those decisions, because none of us prepare to do that. I do think that CND had a post early on detailing his medical situation that was quite negative.

I’m not sure of your point.
 
Probably because most people don’t focus on the OL when they watch other teams. I don’t, atleast not much. Doubt you’ll find many people say anything definitely about an OL signing in FA. You’ll find many more who know about our own OL and how they’ve performed.

Many people were upset about Brooks. When Allen was signed, I’m sure many hoped it meant that we were getting an equal player for close to the same $. Good thing we aren’t paid to make those decisions, because none of us prepare to do that. I do think that CND had a post early on detailing his medical situation that was quite negative.

I’m not sure of your point.

My point is just that OBrien did sign off on these moves. There weren't many people saying these were terrible moves, not even the worst one which was Brock Osweiler
 
Both.

OBrien said they have never taken a disagreement to McNair. He said Rick wouldn't get them someone they don't want. He had an interview with Mad Radio before the season that went into more detail. I have the link if you want it. He said he and Rick have a great relationship.

When he was hired did anyone doubt that Rick just got the players coaches wanted? We knew Kubiak and Wade picked out guys for their system.

We believed the same was true of Obrien until the moves started blowing up and he'd give vague quotes or leaks about how he didn't want certain players or even that maybe had nothing to do with the roster at all.

And why would Rick take that responsibility anyway and bring over a bunch of New England retreads? Why would he deviate from what he did with Kubiak if everything he did was great and they just needed better coaching? And how come the defense was good for so long? (Crennel was picking guys for defense imo)

I think OBrien is the one who wanted to be aggressive in free agency and draft, basically overpaying for a lot of guys who didn't work out while dismantling the talent we had here.

But Rick went along so they should both be gone.

Simple answer is Ricky grabbed in the vacuum that was created after he basically stabbed Kubiak in the back. Other than the New England retreads/ 2 stop gap QB's, what high priced FA's have the Texans signed in FA. If you don't believe Ricky has control over all things personnel related. Look no further than Brian Gaine leaving to go to Buffalo of all places and the Hiring of Jimmy Raye who's failure to in FA to get talent resulted in the mess that's in Indy right now.

The talent the Texans had when BOB got here was still good but aging. See: the retirements of AJ/AF/Myers/Wade Smith. Cushing on his last legs etc... so the turnover you pointed out was inevitable.

With all of this said, I still want both of them gone, however BOB was really put in a no win situation from the 1st draft when Ricky decided to gamble and draft XSF over Jimmy G who it was reported BOB really wanted. Everything has gone downhill since then even though the Texans have been treading water ever since.
 
Back
Top