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How bad is it?

infantrycak said:
It's in OB's contract he controls the 53. Ask your boy Texian. Oops he's been MIA since Watson was more than an average QB at best.
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He doesn't control the candidates that he's provided for the final 53.

What's up with the My Boy Texian reference? Certainly Tex isn't my boy.

The season is going up in flames due to lack of foresight, not participating in FA and depending on a rookie QB to save the franchise. Admitting there's a problem is the 1st step to resolving the problem. Unfortunately the Texans org hasn't been able to learn from their mistakes over the yrs and correct them. I don't really expect much to change this offseason.
 
steelbtexan said:
He doesn't control the candidates that he's provided for the final 53.

What's up with the My Boy Texian reference? Certainly Tex isn't my boy.

The season is going up in flames due to lack of foresight, not participating in FA and depending on a rookie QB to save the franchise. Admitting there's a problem is the 1st step to resolving the problem. Unfortunately the Texans org hasn't been able to learn from their mistakes over the yrs and correct them. I don't really expect much to change this offseason.
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So you are saying that Rick Smiths lack of clairvoyance to foresee the injury to Deshawn Watson represents a "lack of foresight" ? That's a rookie QB who was well on his way to competing with Tom Brady & Carson Wentz for the 2017 NFL MVP award. No Ricky hit this one out of the ball park with DW.
Youv'e got to step your game SB, you are still putting far too much goofy stuff up on the Board.
 
IDEXAN said:
So you are saying that Rick Smiths lack of clairvoyance to foresee the injury to Deshawn Watson represents a "lack of foresight" ? That's a rookie QB who was well on his way to competing with Tom Brady & Carson Wentz for the 2017 NFL MVP award. No Ricky hit this one out of the ball park with DW.
Youv'e got to step your game SB, you are still putting far too much goofy stuff up on the Board.
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We shall see about that, tell me how Watson's knees are going to hold up. (As CnD predicted) I do know that failing to fix the OL last offseason was a mistake and it could've been done.

Suppose Watson has a Bradford type career, what would you think about Ricky's draft then?
 
steelbtexan said:
I do know that failing to fix the OL last offseason was a mistake and it could've been done.

Suppose Watson has a Bradford type career, what would you think about Ricky's draft then?
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Ricky can only do so much. If Watson turns out like Bradford, you can't hold that against him.

As far as fixing the OL. He's tried. I'm sure Billy had input on Newton & signed off. Just like he did on Kendall Lamm & Breno Giacomini. Billy said Rick doesn't bring in players they don't want.

The coaches just haven't been able to get what they needed out of the players they got. & yeah, they've been bargain shopping for OTs, which doesn't make sense to me. But with O'Brien consistently forcing the ball up the middle & the investments we've made in interior linemen (XSF, Allen, Martin, Mancz, Fuller) it's hard for me to believe it's not a concerted effort.
 
TheKDog said:
Pretty sure he can say "go look at x player from x college and add him"
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BOB tells Ricky something like the team needs to add speed this offseason.

Then Ricky goes out and finds guys with speed. Whether the guys with speed Ricky finds can actually play is a different matter.
 
thunderkyss said:
Ricky can only do so much. If Watson turns out like Bradford, you can't hold that against him.

As far as fixing the OL. He's tried. I'm sure Billy had input on Newton & signed off. Just like he did on Kendall Lamm & Breno Giacomini. Billy said Rick doesn't bring in players they don't want.

The coaches just haven't been able to get what they needed out of the players they got. & yeah, they've been bargain shopping for OTs, which doesn't make sense to me. But with O'Brien consistently forcing the ball up the middle & the investments we've made in interior linemen (XSF, Allen, Martin, Mancz, Fuller) it's hard for me to believe it's not a concerted effort.
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The fact that you consider that trying (Bargin Bin Sho) means we will never be on the same page.

Right now the way I see the Texans org. is.

1. They have a double ACL surgery QB who may or may not be Sam Bradford. BTW, we were warned about this before the draft and spent two 1sts anyways.

2. An abysmal OL with no real way to improve to the level they need too to become championship worthy for atleast 3 yrs.

2. An aging defense that is talent deficient in the secondary. By the time the offense becomes good the defense will be old.

3. No leadership at the top that has a clue about roster building.

4. I've developed these thoughts about the Texans org over the last 15 yrs of watching them. But hey, we know how a team that's built correctly is supposed to look, YOUR 2017 World Champion Houston Astros. There now I feel much better just typing that.
 
I'm OK with the Texans going the route of the Astros. Fire O'Brien and go through a rebuilding process by trading away the core players. Suck badly for 3 or 4 years. All of you "Not my Head Coach" and "Never O'Brieners" with me? Or do you believe the Texans can bring in a rookie HC and have success right away? I really don't see that happening.
 
banned1976 said:
I'm OK with the Texans going the route of the Astros. Fire O'Brien and go through a rebuilding process by trading away the core players. Suck badly for 3 or 4 years. All of you "Not my Head Coach" and "Never O'Brieners" with me? Or do you believe the Texans can bring in a rookie HC and have success right away? I really don't see that happening.
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Didn't the previous Houston football team try that... 3 or 4 or 5 times? How did that work out? It's a crapshoot. More a matter of luck than anything in the NFL
 
steelbtexan said:
We shall see about that, tell me how Watson's knees are going to hold up. (As CnD predicted) I do know that failing to fix the OL last offseason was a mistake and it could've been done.

Suppose Watson has a Bradford type career, what would you think about Ricky's draft then?
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As long as we are supposing, OK I'll play. Suppose Watson supplants Tom Brady as the GOAT QB ? Suppose that !
 
banned1976 said:
I'm OK with the Texans going the route of the Astros. Fire O'Brien and go through a rebuilding process by trading away the core players. Suck badly for 3 or 4 years. All of you "Not my Head Coach" and "Never O'Brieners" with me? Or do you believe the Texans can bring in a rookie HC and have success right away? I really don't see that happening.
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Assuming Watson is even in the neighborhood of what he showed in 4-5 games this year, the Texans have little to no chance of outright sucking for that many years. The NFL is much more about not being totally awful in your worst area and being able to cover your other warts with a handful of difference makers. Seattle has had a below average OL for how long? The Pats always have some area that really not that good. Is there any other team in the league that is not some version of up and down (save the two or three awful ones)?
 
banned1976 said:
I'm OK with the Texans going the route of the Astros. Fire O'Brien and go through a rebuilding process by trading away the core players. Suck badly for 3 or 4 years. All of you "Not my Head Coach" and "Never O'Brieners" with me? Or do you believe the Texans can bring in a rookie HC and have success right away? I really don't see that happening.
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Yes, it will take awhile
 
JB said:
Didn't the previous Houston football team try that... 3 or 4 or 5 times? How did that work out? It's a crapshoot. More a matter of luck than anything in the NFL
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If Moon wasn't a choker it may have worked.
 
IDEXAN said:
So you are saying that Rick Smiths lack of clairvoyance to foresee the injury to Deshawn Watson represents a "lack of foresight" ? That's a rookie QB who was well on his way to competing with Tom Brady & Carson Wentz for the 2017 NFL MVP award. No Ricky hit this one out of the ball park with DW.
Youv'e got to step your game SB, you are still putting far too much goofy stuff up on the Board.
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I would say that failing to address extremely obvious OL issues in the offseason/s would qualify. You can't predict injury but you can predict suckage. It was obvious to 99% of non-brain dead NFL fans that the Texans were in trouble at every position but C and LT (with a healthy, non-holdout DB) but that was about it. Smith definitely has his weaknesess. So does OB. So do we all.
 
infantrycak said:
Ask your boy Texian. Oops he's been MIA since Watson was more than an average QB at best.
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Factor in Bortles' failures, Jimbo Fisher continually staying put in Tallahassee, Clowney playing well above Audray Bruce level, etc, etc, and I'm a bit surprised we haven't heard about him on the evening news..
 
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TheKDog said:
Yes, it will take awhile
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Grab a snickers candy bar and we'll be patient. Problem is we've been waiting 15 years for this team to show us something more than three wild-card wins against the Bengals (twice) and Raiders. I thought we would have played in a few AFC Championship games by now if not the Super Bowl. And here we are talking about rebuilding yet again. Not long ago we were the class of the AFC South division.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
Grab a snickers candy bar and we'll be patient. Problem is we've been waiting 15 years for this team to show us something more than three wild-card wins against the Bengals (twice) and Raiders. I thought we would have played in a few AFC Championship games by now if not the Super Bowl. And here we are talking about rebuilding yet again. Not long ago we were the class of the AFC South division.
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I believe we would have made it at least once if Schaub didn't get the lis franc injury
 
Bulls on Parade said:
Grab a snickers candy bar and we'll be patient. Problem is we've been waiting 15 years for this team to show us something more than three wild-card wins against the Bengals (twice) and Raiders. I thought we would have played in a few AFC Championship games by now if not the Super Bowl. And here we are talking about rebuilding yet again. ]
Not long ago we were the class of the AFC South division.
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Now we're the doormat, let's face it
 
Bulls on Parade said:
Grab a snickers candy bar and we'll be patient. Problem is we've been waiting 15 years for this team to show us something more than three wild-card wins against the Bengals (twice) and Raiders. I thought we would have played in a few AFC Championship games by now if not the Super Bowl. And here we are talking about rebuilding yet again. Not long ago we were the class of the AFC South division.
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Why have those expectations? What’s normal? I️ mean it took the Astros how long to get to their first World Series? 40 years I️ think?
 
dream_team said:
Why have those expectations? What’s normal? I️ mean it took the Astros how long to get to their first World Series? 40 years I️ think?
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55 years but 56th season (1962 expansion year as the Colt .45s). Oh my gosh, I don't know if most of us will be alive if it takes the Houston Texans that long to win a Super Bowl. 2002 expansion year to 2057.

40 more years. Ah yes, you're correct. I think I misread your post initially.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
Assuming Watson is even in the neighborhood of what he showed in 4-5 games this year, the Texans have little to no chance of outright sucking for that many years. The NFL is much more about not being totally awful in your worst area and being able to cover your other warts with a handful of difference makers. Seattle has had a below average OL for how long? The Pats always have some area that really not that good. Is there any other team in the league that is not some version of up and down (save the two or three awful ones)?
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I think they can buck the odds with Watson. Watson is, sad to say, already at least an injury concern with his knee. So, you're assuming best case scenario with Watson. I've learned to assume CnnD is correct in his expert analysis. Because that's a safe bet.
 
JB said:
Didn't the previous Houston football team try that... 3 or 4 or 5 times? How did that work out? It's a crapshoot. More a matter of luck than anything in the NFL
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Try, try and try again. This formula isn't working. Ownership is unlikely to change. In fact, it isn't because McNair loves his cash cow. So wash, rinse and repeat, upturning the staff until McNair gets his greedy hands on a trophy. And then we praise the racist bullet head.
 
DocBar said:
I would say that failing to address extremely obvious OL issues in the offseason/s would qualify. You can't predict injury but you can predict suckage. It was obvious to 99% of non-brain dead NFL fans that the Texans were in trouble at every position but C and LT (with a healthy, non-holdout DB) but that was about it. Smith definitely has his weaknesess. So does OB. So do we all.
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Yes true, failing to do more for the OLine than has been done in the last couple years is for sure a legit issue.
 
banned1976 said:
I think they can buck the odds with Watson. Watson is, sad to say, already at least an injury concern with his knee. So, you're assuming best case scenario with Watson. I've learned to assume CnnD is correct in his expert analysis. Because that's a safe bet.
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Even with Watson's long-term risk is higher than 'we would like, the team has to operate as if it has a difference maker until it doesn't. there is no Astros sell-off plan coming, nor should there be. If we were looking at Josh TJ Savage or Tom Johnson Yates or whatever the current QBs name is then selling the farm is probably the answer. Having a QB changes everything.
 
The Texans lost to a team today that had 10 consecutive losing seasons.

They had to call a timeout before a field goal attempt (missed) because they had 10 men on the field.

The offensive line is in shambles. Only 2 should be starters. Sua Filo should be somewhere down the roster as a 3rd or 4th. He's that bad and worse he cost the Texans the 33rd over all pick just 3 years ago.

The secondary consists of 2 older cornerbacks that are showing their age and another that has had difficulty staying healthy. They allowed a QB to have the best passing game (yardage) of his NFL career today.

Both of their defensive ends have injury concerns - Watt with his back and Clowney with his knee.

The only stability on this team are the LB's.

When the Texans hire a new HC he's going to want his own players.

So yes, I believe the Texans can be bottom dwellers for 3-4 years. They won't be alone, the NFL always has had their consistently bad teams for extended periods of time. Browns, Raiders, Jets, Rams (maybe not anymore), Titans for many years, Jacksonville for many years. Bears, Lions for a long time.

And lets face it, the Texans have owned a lousy division. They went 2-14, 9-7, 9-7 and 9-7. One playoff victory and one major butt whoppin' at home in the playoffs over the last 4 years. Not great and this year looks lost already. When looking at it, the Texans have only been a good team maybe for a season or two. But they never could beat the great teams and now they can't even beat bad teams at home, as was the case last Sunday.

For me it's time for a major shake-up; from the Front Office to the water boys/girls. Ownership has a lot to be desired as well but I don't see the McNair's selling the team. Which might actually prolong the suckage.
 
The Texans had a chance last season, but made a HUGE mistake by signing Osweiler to a ridiculous contract. They should've instead invested in an OL line and started Weeden at QB.

As for the future, if the OL isn't revamped to protect Watson, next season may get ugly as well.
 
banned1976 said:
When the Texans hire a new HC he's going to want his own players.

So yes, I believe the Texans can be bottom dwellers for 3-4 years.
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Nothing against O'Brien, but I think McNair did us no favors hiring a coach that didn't fit the team he had been building. We wasted years replacing Ben Jones, Chris Myers, & Brandon Brooks when we should have been trying to find replacements for Newton... & Duane Brown.

Or maybe O'Brien sold him a bill of goods, it did look like we were going to incorporate the outside zone running that first year. Then it looked like O'Brien changed his mind... & couldnt make up his mind. Thankfully Crennel was able to keep on keeping on. I doubt we'd have been 9-7 the first three years otherwise.
 
Thorsson said:
As for the future, if the OL isn't revamped to protect Watson, next season may get ugly as well.
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I'm not against improving our OL, but they looked good at times against a pretty good defense. Savage had moments where he had a nice pocket to step into & times when he had plenty of time to go through his progression. Had he made better throws... or receivers didn't drop routine catches, he'd have earned some respect & fear from defenses.
 
banned1976 said:
The Texans lost to a team today that had 10 consecutive losing seasons.

When the Texans hire a new HC he's going to want his own players.

So yes, I believe the Texans can be bottom dwellers for 3-4 years. They won't be alone, the NFL always has had their consistently bad teams for extended periods of time. Browns, Raiders, Jets, Rams (maybe not anymore), Titans for many years, Jacksonville for many years. Bears, Lions for a long
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Sean McVay just took over the Rams this year. Turned them into a playoff team. Doesn’t take 3-4 years.
 
TexansBull said:
Sean McVay just took over the Rams this year. Turned them into a playoff team. Doesn’t take 3-4 years.
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Hi second-year QB is healthy and we might be at or near their record with our rookie QB had he not IRed. Oh and then we also lot a couple D players for the year, one of them a guy nmae Watt. The announcer said today that the Rams starters missed very little time this year.
 
IDEXAN said:
Hi second-year QB is healthy and we might be at or near their record with our rookie QB had he not IRed. Oh and then we also lot a couple D players for the year, one of them a guy nmae Watt. The announcer said today that the Rams starters missed very little time this year.
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The Texans were 3-4 with Watson, so this is doubtful.

Quinn missed today's game for the Rams.

Excuses, fact is this team is lacking in talent.
 
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TexansBull said:
Sean McVay just took over the Rams this year. Turned them into a playoff team. Doesn’t take 3-4 years.
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They have more talent than the Texans. Because they had years of picking high in the draft. The Texans have been mediocre for 3 years. Now they are bad and have little to work with early in the 2018 draft.

I'm not saying it will unequivocally take several years of bad play to become a Super Bowl caliber team. But it most certainly can and if it does, I'm OK with it which was my initial comment on the subject. I'd rather have a team that can beat the good teams than a team that can only beat bad teams, limp into the playoffs and get destroyed.
 
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I'm going to be interested in seeing which starters this year are gone next year. I can think of a few that I believe will be gone-

Savage (obviously)
Su'a Filo
Breno Giacomini
Chris Clark (he'll be a FA in 2018 and has not played well)

Jonathan Joseph (he's a FA in 2018 and will be 33)
Brian Cushing
Marcus Gilchrist


A non-starter that should be released is Braxton Miller. There are others but he's the guy that really sticks out.
 
banned1976 said:
I'm going to be interested in seeing which starters this year are gone next year. I can think of a few that I believe will be gone-

Savage (obviously)
Su'a Filo
Breno Giacomini
Chris Clark (he'll be a FA in 2018 and has not played well)

Jonathan Joseph (he's a FA in 2018 and will be 33)
Brian Cushing
Marcus Gilchrist


A non-starter that should be released is Braxton Miller. There are others but he's the guy that really sticks out.
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I agree with all except Joseph. I think he'll be back.
 
I went to the game. Sat right behind the team. Savage would come off the field put on his cap and sit alone. No interaction with a coach etc. The other groups were watching the pads and talking.. Something strange going on
 
whodknee said:
I went to the game. Sat right behind the team. Savage would come off the field put on his cap and sit alone. No interaction with a coach etc. The other groups were watching the pads and talking.. Something strange going on
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It’s called the Brad Lidge effect.
 
Hey, look at the bright side.

At least we won’t go 2-14 this year. :)
 
Marcus said:
Brad Lidge.... :eek:

Hey, does anyone know if that ball that Albert Puhols hit is still circling the earth, or did it eventually burn up reentering the atmosphere?
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Sure, the ball finally landed in Ken Giles' backyard.
Kenny was startled and said, "I didn't give it up!"
 
banned1976 said:
They have more talent than the Texans. Because they had years of picking high in the draft. The Texans have been mediocre for 3 years. Now they are bad and have little to work with early in the 2018 draft.

I'm not saying it will unequivocally take several years of bad play to become a Super Bowl caliber team. But it most certainly can and if it does, I'm OK with it which was my initial comment on the subject. I'd rather have a team that can beat the good teams than a team that can only beat bad teams, limp into the playoffs and get destroyed.
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This is why you trade Clowney, Watt, Merciless, Miller and Hopkins for high draft picks. Draft is deep in Oline talent. Protect Watson first, then build your defense and put weapons around him. 2 year rebuild tops, but McNair, Ricky and BoB don't have the nuts to do it.
 
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