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Houston: The City That Sold Its Soul

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Or Watson will end up like Stafford, Rivers, Ryan, Cunningham, McNabb & a whole slew of other really good QBs who never won a Super Bowl.

I know no one wants to get into this, but pretty soon it’s going to be all we talk about. Does Watson make the others around him better? Does he inspire those around him to be their best?

It’s a subjective thing & all we’re going to have as evidence are things we normally associate with coaching. Mistakes, pre snap penalties in crucial moments. Fumbles that come out of nowhere to end a game.

& we’re going to look at great games by guys like QT/Henson & say he’s doing his part.

His stats are right there with the top 5 QBs. But production? But not scoring on first drives?? How far back do we have to go to find a top 5 QB that lost 11 games?
So if he wins ONE SB in a 15-18 year career, then he gets catapulted to Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees status? They haven't even been to more than that one. Funny how that works. Gonna take a lot to get to reach the status of the great Eli Manning.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Agreed and DW4 shares in this responsibility.

I surely haven't seen enough, he's basically the same guy that he was coming into the league. (Hero ball) He has improved his accuracy somewhat.

What has he delivered in crunch time. 51-7

He's a very tough guy and has played hurt when most wouldn't have.
Watson has reached 52 NFL starts. During this stretch how many times has this guy delivered a tie or the lead in the 4th QTR only to watch the defense give up the lead? If you keep putting all your eggs in one basket...51-7...then it comes off as disingenuous and short-sighted. This offense, whatever the hail we want to call it, is as simple as run, run, throw deep. All these wonderful short or mid seem routes would be wonderful but exactly how many times per game have we seen the TE's and Slot's play a major role in the offense? How many times have we seen WR's on this team break routes off and move with Watson to give him targets when he's broken containment? I remember watching Demaryius Thomas break routes and move with Watson, giving him a target when he needed one. I'm sure you can go back to gameday post(s) where I hammered this exact sentiment.

I've seen Watson make every NFL throw with authority over his first 52 games. To say he lacks the ability to hit anything other than the deep ball is just plan wrong. I've seen Watson make mistakes that make you go, "aw shite".....and I've seen him make plays that make say, "AW SHITE"!!!! Watson has exceeded my expectations in his first 52 b/c of the overall failure of the Texans organization and the talent being put on the field. Better situation equals better results. If the Texans can't accomplish this....then like Watt, Watson deserves a shot with a better organization. I think Watson made it clear to the Texans what his expectations are based on the contract he signed. If Texans aren't moving in the right direction, Watson will have an out in 2023. He'll still be young enough to really attractive to the right organization.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Agree to some degree but how many top 5 QB's have been strapped to a defense as absolutely horrible as the Texans defense?
How bad would this defense look if they always played with the lead? Remember KCs defense was recently overhauled because they were so bad... but they didn't lose 11 games because of it.


....but how many times has the Texans defense shut down an open drive?
As often as we don't score on our first possession we've given up a score. Hand in hand why where almost always playing from behind.


I've seen enough over 3 seasons to know without a doubt that the moment Watson has a HC, OC, and team that is built around him....
I thought the same about Vick, McNabb, Rivers, Stafford, Luck, etc... that's my point.


As for being a leader on the field, Watson has delivered enough in crunch time and played thru enough injuries to have Texans respect. They know this guy wants to win and know they know that he's won at every level before arriving in Houston.
Well, I think Watt was speaking directly to his teammates on both sides of the ball. Somebody isn't falling in line with Watt & Watson. So Watson may have their respect, but he doesn't have their "want to work hard"
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
So if he wins ONE SB in a 15-18 year career, then he gets catapulted to Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees status? They haven't even been to more than that one. Funny how that works. Gonna take a lot to get to reach the status of the great Eli Manning.
Agree, slim line between Rivers & Rodgers.

Don't get me wrong I'd be happy if Watson gets us to one AFCCG. Or even if he just keeps playing as he has this season.

Playing a full season, has Roethlisberger ever lost 11 games? Has Tony Romo?

I know Aikman has, so I'm not saying there isn't any hope.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
This offense, whatever the hail we want to call it, is as simple as run, run, throw deep.
I wonder how many of those run plays were Watson's decisions. I know last season I kept looking to see if I could determine what the read was for Watson to give the ball on the many RPO runs we ran that went nowhere.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
How bad would this defense look if they always played with the lead? Remember KCs defense was recently overhauled because they were so bad... but they didn't lose 11 games because of it.



As often as we don't score on our first possession we've given up a score. Hand in hand why where almost always playing from behind.



I thought the same about Vick, McNabb, Rivers, Stafford, Luck, etc... that's my point.



Well, I think Watt was speaking directly to his teammates on both sides of the ball. Somebody isn't falling in line with Watt & Watson. So Watson may have their respect, but he doesn't have their "want to work hard"
Each man on the Texans can look at Watt / Watson and see what hard work and commitment can do.....on an individual basis. Both of these guys have led by example. Unfortunately, the Texans as a whole have failed this team. The team quit on O'Brien, then they quit on the McNair's b/c of Easterby being in the building.....then they quit on the team. Watt and Watson can only do so much but this team is teetering on the edge of true disaster and the only person that can salvage this from materializing is Cal McNair. If Cal has any desire of gaining the players respect.....he's got to kick Easterby out the door. That's the first step in the right direction.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Manning was great with Gase, I suspect Mahomes would be too.
LMAO. Adam Gase was Manning's OC for one year when Manning was a 37 year old HOF QB with 15 years of NFL experience.
Gase has not shown the ability to develop any young QBs. Putting Gase and Mahomes together would probably end up similar to Gase and Tannehill or Gase and Darnold. When has Gase developed a young QB?

Your ability to over simplify things and come to conclusions without any context or logic cracks me up.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
LMAO. Adam Gase was Manning's OC for one year when Manning was a 37 year old HOF QB with 15 years of NFL experience.
Gase has not shown the ability to develop any young QBs. Putting Gase and Mahomes together would probably end up similar to Gase and Tannehill or Gase and Darnold. When has Gase developed a young QB?

Your ability to over simplify things and come to conclusions without any context or logic cracks me up.
Your ability to twist proven facts is simply amazing. Did Manning set a record for TD passes with Gase as his OC or not?

Give Gase a guy with Mahomes talent or any HC/OC for that matter and I'm sure he will do well. Generational talents tend to do well regardless of the coaches around them. See: Brett Favre and Brad Childress.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
LMAO. Adam Gase was Manning's OC for one year when Manning was a 37 year old HOF QB with 15 years of NFL experience.
Gase has not shown the ability to develop any young QBs. Putting Gase and Mahomes together would probably end up similar to Gase and Tannehill or Gase and Darnold. When has Gase developed a young QB?

Your ability to over simplify things and come to conclusions without any context or logic cracks me up.
Wasn't this supposed to be the same reason OB was going to be a great HC/OC....b/c he "GOT TO BE" the OC for the Patriots while TB was in his prime? OB could've been standing on the sideline with his cap turned sideways, a clipboard hanging on chain around his neck, with a half shirt, one finger up his nose, and two digits deep in his arse.......and Tom Brady would've still delivered the same results. Gase took both Tannehill / Darnold and put on an exhibition as to how best to coach down your NFL QB's. No way in hail would he suddenly figure it out in Houston.....OB 2.0 is what we, the fans, would be treated to.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Or Watson will end up like Stafford, Rivers, Ryan, Cunningham, McNabb & a whole slew of other really good QBs who never won a Super Bowl.

I know no one wants to get into this, but pretty soon it’s going to be all we talk about. Does Watson make the others around him better? Does he inspire those around him to be their best?

It’s a subjective thing & all we’re going to have as evidence are things we normally associate with coaching. Mistakes, pre snap penalties in crucial moments. Fumbles that come out of nowhere to end a game.

& we’re going to look at great games by guys like QT/Henson & say he’s doing his part.

His stats are right there with the top 5 QBs. But production? But not scoring on first drives?? How far back do we have to go to find a top 5 QB that lost 11 games?
Brady and Mahomes are the current outliers, but most elite QBs have encountered a double digit loss season.
  1. Aaron Rodgers went 6-10 (4th season)
  2. Peyton Manning went 6-10 (4th season)
  3. Drew Brees went 2-9 (3rd season)
  4. Brett Favre went 4-12 (13th season)
  5. John Elway went 5-11 (8th season)
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Brady and Mahomes are the current outliers, but most elite QBs have encountered a double digit loss season.
  1. Aaron Rodgers went 6-10 (4th season)
  2. Peyton Manning went 6-10 (4th season)
  3. Drew Brees went 2-9 (3rd season)
  4. Brett Favre went 4-12 (13th season)
  5. John Elway went 5-11 (8th season)
So it really does happen.........oh noooooooo, say it ain't so!!!!!!
 

Earl34

All Pro
Your ability to twist proven facts is simply amazing. Did Manning set a record for TD passes with Gase as his OC or not?

Give Gase a guy with Mahomes talent or any HC/OC for that matter and I'm sure he will do well. Generational talents tend to do well regardless of the coaches around them. See: Brett Favre and Brad Childress.
According to you, stats are for losers. Did they win a Super Bowl setting a record for TD passes?

So, you think a first time OC was teaching and developing a 37 year old HOF QB? You must be one of these fans who believe BOB a first time NFL OC, helped "developed" a 34 year old HOF QB named Tom Brady. Bless your heart.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Your ability to twist proven facts is simply amazing. Did Manning set a record for TD passes with Gase as his OC or not?

Give Gase a guy with Mahomes talent or any HC/OC for that matter and I'm sure he will do well. Generational talents tend to do well regardless of the coaches around them. See: Brett Favre and Brad Childress.
Again, you totally missed the point. How old was Favre when he worked with Childress? You will not look it up. So I will tell you. He was 40, FORTY, freaking years old. These QBs were already in the HOF when BOB, Gase and Childress came along. Try again with a young QB that they actually developed.

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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Each man on the Texans can look at Watt / Watson and see what hard work and commitment can do.....on an individual basis. Both of these guys have led by example. Unfortunately, the Texans as a whole have failed this team. The team quit on O'Brien, then they quit on the McNair's b/c of Easterby being in the building.....then they quit on the team. Watt and Watson can only do so much but this team is teetering on the edge of true disaster and the only person that can salvage this from materializing is Cal McNair. If Cal has any desire of gaining the players respect.....he's got to kick Easterby out the door. That's the first step in the right direction.
Maybe... it's plausible. Still, I never thought we'd lose 11 games with a franchise QB.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Brady and Mahomes are the current outliers, but most elite QBs have encountered a double digit loss season.
  1. Aaron Rodgers went 6-10 (4th season)
  2. Peyton Manning went 6-10 (4th season)
  3. Drew Brees went 2-9 (3rd season)
  4. Brett Favre went 4-12 (13th season)
  5. John Elway went 5-11 (8th season)
I'm pretty sure Favre & Elway had leadership issues. Wasn't until they humbled themselves that they won a Super Bowl.

So like I said, Aikman lost 12 games in a 14 game season so there's hope for Watson.
 

FuzzyLogic

Mathematically Possible
How far back do we have to go to find a top 5 QB that lost 11 games?
I get what you're saying, and it's not quite 11 - but the 2018 packers 6-9-1, 9 losses, and a tie. Rodgers threw for 4000+, 25 TD's, 2, ints., 90+ passer rating but the team sucked. No one argues against Rodgers being a good/great/elite QB.

Rodgers first-year starting (it's been a few years) 2008 6-10.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I’d rather be a Brady/Patriot fan than a Manning/Colts fan. Also, 6 rings vs 2. Not even close buddy!
I get it. A lot of you guys hopped on that wagon after the third or fourth Super Bowl.

Completely understandable. But even then, Peyton was the better QB. So I guess it's like @FuzzyLogic said. It doesn't really matter who's top 5. Just win baby... & right now, we're not winning so Watson ain't Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.
 

CWTexansFan

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contributor's Club
Wasn't this supposed to be the same reason OB was going to be a great HC/OC....b/c he "GOT TO BE" the OC for the Patriots while TB was in his prime? OB could've been standing on the sideline with his cap turned sideways, a clipboard hanging on chain around his neck, with a half shirt, one finger up his nose, and two digits deep in his arse.......and Tom Brady would've still delivered the same results. Gase took both Tannehill / Darnold and put on an exhibition as to how best to coach down your NFL QB's. No way in hail would he suddenly figure it out in Houston.....OB 2.0 is what we, the fans, would be treated to.
Wait, when did Bob fist himself on the sideline? Please post links and video.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
I get it. A lot of you guys hopped on that wagon after the third or fourth Super Bowl.

Completely understandable. But even then, Peyton was the better QB. So I guess it's like @FuzzyLogic said. It doesn't really matter who's top 5. Just win baby... & right now, we're not winning so Watson ain't Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.
Same thing. Eli Manning vs. Dan Marino. Marino was by far the better QB, Eli was a good QB with a great team around him. And one of those teams wasn't really that great. What were they, 9-7 one year? Just got hot at the right time.

BTW, Peyton was 6-10 his 4th year.
 


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