Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

Houston: The City That Sold Its Soul

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
I almost didn't make it through the opening ad. I'm almost sorry I did. That was painful! The only thing that could make it hurt more is if they would have included the entire Oilers history

This is too big to be in this one small forum... can you duplicate it in the others?
 

banned1976

All Pro
"The whipping you continue to receive in the second half? You love it! It's what you live for. It fuels every single fiber of pessimism that weeps through your broken bodies." "Are you ready for the punishment Bill O'Brien's going to get for his gross incompetence for how he handcuffs the team as coach and executive? You sure you're ready? Here it is! Permanent GM." L

I'm sorry but I laughed way too hard at the video. Thanks for sharing DB! It could definitely go in the Texans Talk forum for more views.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
How many tainted championship rings does Tom Brady have? And everybody, myself included, still thinks he's the greatest QB ever. The Astros championship isn't any more tainted than those Patriot championships. #worthit #F###thehaters.
Brady is surely the goat of QBs in terms of accomplishments in post season NFL football but no where the goat of QBs in terms of
sheer talent, since there's a handful of more talented QBs than Brady in just todays NFL.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Brady is surely the goat of QBs in terms of accomplishments in post season NFL football but no where the goat of QBs in terms of
sheer talent, since there's a handful of more talented QBs than Brady in just todays NFL.
There’s probably half dozen QBs in every draft more talented than Brady. Being the GOAT is about production, not talent.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
If you say so,

It's not like they gave Brady great Wr's to throw too.
Moss wasn't chopped liver and before/after Moss they adjusted their offense to the talent. For a couple of seasons it was the Gronk and Hernandez show. Another few seasons they had the slots eating everyone alive. That's the difference between the Patriots and the Texans......the Patriots knew how to make adjustments to their offense and defense to best optimize their pool of talent and the Texans......well the Texans know how to burn through talent like they expected to be within the top 5 picks on an annual basis.
 
Last edited:

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Moss wasn't chopped liver and before/after Moss they adjusted their offense to the talent. For a couple of seasons it was the Gronk and Hernandez show. Another few seasons they had the slots eating everyone alive. That's the difference between the Patriots and the Texans......the Patriots knew how to make adjustments to their offense and defense to best optimize their pool of talent and the Texans......well the Texans know how to burn through talent like they expected to be within the top 5 picks on an annual basis.
The biggest differences between the PAts/Texans were/Are

1. Coaching
2. QB play when Brady was there.
3. Pats know how to develop young talent and thus have much greater depth.
4. The Pats will take chances on talented but troubled player, the Not Texans Worthy motto is alive and well.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
The biggest differences between the PAts/Texans were/Are

1. Coaching
2. QB play when Brady was there.
3. Pats know how to develop young talent and thus have much greater depth.
4. The Pats will take chances on talented but troubled player, the Not Texans Worthy motto is alive and well.
Good on three points but I cannot agree on #2 until I see Watson play a few seasons with the talent rich team's that Brady was fortunate enough to play with on a seasonal basis.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Good on three points but I cannot agree on #2 until I see Watson play a few seasons with the talent rich team's that Brady was fortunate enough to play with on a seasonal basis.
other.than a couple of seasons tell me what talent rich seasons Brady had.

Other than Moss for a couple of years tell me of a Wr that Brady had that compared to Hopkins.

You can't have it both ways.

Face it, Brady is the standard all QBs hope to live up to and DW4'S not in that neighborhood today.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Brady is the standard all QBs hope to live up to and DW4'S not in that neighborhood today.
Brady wasn’t always Brady.

& you’re right, we don’t know if Watson ever will be. I remember back in the day vehemently saying Brady is not Manning. And we know how that turned out.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Brady wasn’t always Brady.

& you’re right, we don’t know if Watson ever will be. I remember back in the day vehemently saying Brady is not Manning. And we know how that turned out.
Manning is poster boy for QBs who feast on less talented divisional foes and regular season opponents then stink it up in the playoffs. Rightly or wrongly, QBs are judged on championships. When it comes to post season success, Brady and Manning aren't even close.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
When it comes to post season success, Brady and Manning aren't even close.
I’m not saying any different. But I remember when they were both young, I & a bunch of others saw Manning playing the position at a much higher level & figured he’d win a Super Bowl soon enough.

While Brady wasn’t a particularly good QB (not bad) & already had two Super Bowls. & despite the general belief now, that Bradymade Belichick, in those days it was the other way around.

No doubt, Brady has become a much better QB, better even than Manning. But that’s the point. He was an avg QB at one time.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I’m not saying any different. But I remember when they were both young, I & a bunch of others saw Manning playing the position at a much higher level & figured he’d win a Super Bowl soon enough.

While Brady wasn’t a particularly good QB (not bad) & already had two Super Bowls. & despite the general belief now, that Bradymade Belichick, in those days it was the other way around.

No doubt, Brady has become a much better QB, better even than Manning. But that’s the point. He was an avg QB at one time.
Manning was a #1 overall pick in 1998 and Brady a #199 overall pick in 2000.
Manning also had a very favorable pedigree a reputation as being a cerebral player and was anointed as the starting QB straight out of the gate. Brady got stuck behind a very successful QB in Drew Bledsoe and was brought along as a game manager, playing in relief of an injured Bledsoe.
I wonder what the outcome would be if Belichick had gotten a QB the caliber of Manning.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Manning was a #1 overall pick in 1998 and Brady a #199 overall pick in 2000.
Manning also had a very favorable pedigree a reputation as being a cerebral player and was anointed as the starting QB straight out of the gate. Brady got stuck behind a very successful QB in Drew Bledsoe and was brought along as a game manager, playing in relief of an injured Bledsoe.
I wonder what the outcome would be if Belichick had gotten a QB the caliber of Manning.
How would you compare Bledsoe & Manning
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Manning was a #1 overall pick in 1998 and Brady a #199 overall pick in 2000.
Manning also had a very favorable pedigree a reputation as being a cerebral player and was anointed as the starting QB straight out of the gate. Brady got stuck behind a very successful QB in Drew Bledsoe and was brought along as a game manager, playing in relief of an injured Bledsoe.
I wonder what the outcome would be if Belichick had gotten a QB the caliber of Manning.
That game manager in his 2nd yr lead an underdog Pats team down the field with less than a minute left in the game for a FG to win a SB. Not bad for a game manager.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
That game manager in his 2nd yr lead an underdog Pats team down the field with less than a minute left in the game for a FG to win a SB. Not bad for a game manager.
I'm a big Brady fan, but his 1st 2-3 years as a starter, he wasn't asked to go out and win games with his arm. Around 2005, that changed.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Moss wasn't chopped liver and before/after Moss they adjusted their offense to the talent. For a couple of seasons it was the Gronk and Hernandez show. Another few seasons they had the slots eating everyone alive. That's the difference between the Patriots and the Texans......the Patriots knew how to make adjustments to their offense and defense to best optimize their pool of talent and the Texans......well the Texans know how to burn through talent like they expected to be within the top 5 picks on an annual basis.
A more accurate comparison IMHO is Mahomes and Reid vs Watson and .

Also having a GM not making dumb trades for nothing in return in the draft (Jaelen Strong) and existing players Hopkins).

Let’s not forget how beneficial it was that Reid has a simple offense that Alex Smith was able to learn and help mentor Mahomes in his first year. Having a stable QB and mentor for the next QB is a huge benefit. Watson had...Savage. Oh and TJ Yates.

Ownership/GM/HC has a huge impact on the success of a player.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
A more accurate comparison IMHO is Mahomes and Reid vs Watson and .

Also having a GM not making dumb trades for nothing in return in the draft (Jaelen Strong) and existing players Hopkins).

Let’s not forget how beneficial it was that Reid has a simple offense that Alex Smith was able to learn and help mentor Mahomes in his first year. Having a stable QB and mentor for the next QB is a huge benefit. Watson had...Savage. Oh and TJ Yates.

Ownership/GM/HC has a huge impact on the success of a player.
So he's not elite?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
No, they’re (everyone not named Watson) not elite?
Disagree

Mahomes has generational talent, he's like Favre with movement skills. He's the closest thing to Elway since Elway. He would be great without Reid, but with Reid he's got a chance to be a GOAT.

This doesn't mean DW4 is a bad QB, it just means he's not on the top 5 elite level right now. You have to perform well in big games regardless of the circumstances to be considered elite.

Example: I dont think McCarthy is an above avg HC but Rodgers still played at an elite level in the playoffs. LaFluer is a better HC and despite a change in scheme that Rodgers has played in his entire starting career, Rodgers is better than ever. Why? Because Rodgers is elite. If DW4 is elite and Bienemy (The guy DW4 wants and will get if Bienemy wants the job.) should you hold DW4 to the same standards that Rodgers has performed at? It's not like other than Adams Rodgers has this great receiving corp to throw too.
 

austins23

Hall of Fame
The biggest differences between the PAts/Texans were/Are

1. Coaching
2. QB play when Brady was there.
3. Pats know how to develop young talent and thus have much greater depth.
4. The Pats will take chances on talented but troubled player, the Not Texans Worthy motto is alive and well.
5. Pats have a 4 year plan and know how to manage their salary cap
#6. Belichik is the greatest cheat in the NFL. :hides:
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
#6. Belichik is the greatest cheat in the NFL. :hides:
If you aren't pushing the rules then you're cheating the team you're working for. I would be willing to give up a few draft picks for a ring. BTW, other teams were taping other teams signals. If other teams dont like this all they have to do is change their signals.

Deflate gate wasn't cheating, it was science. Football's have less air in them when it's cold outside. Kinda like when the warning light comes on in your car that tells you your tires are low when it's cold outside. BTW, the Colts were using deflated footballs too. Why because it was cold outside.
 
Last edited:

austins23

Hall of Fame
If you aren't pushing the rules then you're cheating the team you're working for. I would be willing to give up a few draft picks for a ring. BTW, other teams were taping other teams signals. If other teams dont like this all they have to do is change their signals.

Deflate gate wasn't cheating, it was science. Football's have less air in them when it's cold outside. Kinda like when the warning light comes on in your car that tells you your tires are cold when it's cold outside. BTW, the Colts were using deflated footballs too. Why because it was cold outside.
#7. The Patriots organization has the refs on its payroll.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Disagree

Mahomes has generational talent, he's like Favre with movement skills. He's the closest thing to Elway since Elway. He would be great without Reid, but with Reid he's got a chance to be a GOAT.

This doesn't mean DW4 is a bad QB, it just means he's not on the top 5 elite level right now. You have to perform well in big games regardless of the circumstances to be considered elite.

Example: I dont think McCarthy is an above avg HC but Rodgers still played at an elite level in the playoffs. LaFluer is a better HC and despite a change in scheme that Rodgers has played in his entire starting career, Rodgers is better than ever. Why? Because Rodgers is elite. If DW4 is elite and Bienemy (The guy DW4 wants and will get if Bienemy wants the job.) should you hold DW4 to the same standards that Rodgers has performed at? It's not like other than Adams Rodgers has this great receiving corp to throw too.
At Green Bay McCarthy and Rogers had Ted Thompson as GM.

If McCarthy is average - what does that tell you about Bill O’Brein the HC and William O’Brein the GM?

This isn’t just about the HC. It’s about the HC and the GM putting talent around the QB. It called setting up for success the opposite of setting up for failure. It’s why Elway sat a year and Eli wouldn’t pay for the Chargers.

It takes a lot more than the way you paint it.

Mahomes not only has had Reid, but GMs that have drafted well to surround him with talent.

And no - Mahomes wouldn’t be great with Gase or OB. He would look similar to Watson. Watson may not be as good as Mahomes, but he would have had the same success as Mahomes in KC.

I can’t wait to see how you dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge that.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
At Green Bay McCarthy and Rogers had Ted Thompson as GM.

If McCarthy is average - what does that tell you about Bill O’Brein the HC and William O’Brein the GM?

This isn’t just about the HC. It’s about the HC and the GM putting talent around the QB. It called setting up for success the opposite of setting up for failure. It’s why Elway sat a year and Eli wouldn’t pay for the Chargers.

It takes a lot more than the way you paint it.

Mahomes not only has had Reid, but GMs that have drafted well to surround him with talent.

And no - Mahomes wouldn’t be great with Gase or OB. He would look similar to Watson. Watson may not be as good as Mahomes, but he would have had the same success as Mahomes in KC.

I can’t wait to see how you dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge that.
1. Most Packers fans will tell you Thompson is the reason Favre/Rodgers each only have one ring.

2. What yr did Elway sit? He threatened to play baseball and that forced the trade. Manning threatened to sit and because the Manning family is well off financially this forced a trade.

3. Like I said before Gase was great with Manning. (Set record for passing TD's in a season.) So great he got 2 different HC jobs. So I imagine Mahomes would've been fine under Gase. We dont know how either DW4 or Mahomes would've looked under Gase. This is all just some kind of weird speculation to try to build DW4 up and tear Mahomes down.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
I don't want to post the stats but I feel pretty comfortable in using my memory to say that Manning and Elway's first 3 year stats as starters would not look to good compared to Watson's. Anyone who feels uncomfortable with this thought can pull the stats. Both of these QB's got better as they got older and their teams (INDY / DEN) upgraded the talent around them. Watson has gotten better while the team around him has gotten worse.....so it only stands to reason that if the Texans figure out how to build the team around Watson, his on field results and stats will take a substantial jump.
 

justmy2cents

Veteran
Contributor's Club
I don't want to post the stats but I feel pretty comfortable in using my memory to say that Manning and Elway's first 3 year stats as starters would not look to good compared to Watson's. Anyone who feels uncomfortable with this thought can pull the stats. Both of these QB's got better as they got older and their teams (INDY / DEN) upgraded the talent around them. Watson has gotten better while the team around him has gotten worse.....so it only stands to reason that if the Texans figure out how to build the team around Watson, his on field results and stats will take a substantial jump.

Amen Brother !
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I don't want to post the stats but I feel pretty comfortable in using my memory to say that Manning and Elway's first 3 year stats as starters would not look to good compared to Watson's. Anyone who feels uncomfortable with this thought can pull the stats. Both of these QB's got better as they got older and their teams (INDY / DEN) upgraded the talent around them. Watson has gotten better while the team around him has gotten worse.....so it only stands to reason that if the Texans figure out how to build the team around Watson, his on field results and stats will take a substantial jump.
It was a much different league (better) back then

Agreed
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
so it only stands to reason that if the Texans figure out how to build the team around Watson, his on field results and stats will take a substantial jump.
Or Watson will end up like Stafford, Rivers, Ryan, Cunningham, McNabb & a whole slew of other really good QBs who never won a Super Bowl.

I know no one wants to get into this, but pretty soon it’s going to be all we talk about. Does Watson make the others around him better? Does he inspire those around him to be their best?

It’s a subjective thing & all we’re going to have as evidence are things we normally associate with coaching. Mistakes, pre snap penalties in crucial moments. Fumbles that come out of nowhere to end a game.

& we’re going to look at great games by guys like QT/Henson & say he’s doing his part.

His stats are right there with the top 5 QBs. But production? But not scoring on first drives?? How far back do we have to go to find a top 5 QB that lost 11 games?
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Or Watson will end up like Stafford, Rivers, Ryan, Cunningham, McNabb & a whole slew of other really good QBs who never won a Super Bowl.

I know no one wants to get into this, but pretty soon it’s going to be all we talk about. Does Watson make the others around him better? Does he inspire those around him to be their best?

It’s a subjective thing & all we’re going to have as evidence are things we normally associate with coaching. Mistakes, pre snap penalties in crucial moments. Fumbles that come out of nowhere to end a game.

& we’re going to look at great games by guys like QT/Henson & say he’s doing his part.

His stats are right there with the top 5 QBs. But production? But not scoring on first drives?? How far back do we have to go to find a top 5 QB that lost 11 games?
Agree to some degree but how many top 5 QB's have been strapped to a defense as absolutely horrible as the Texans defense? This whole mess about first drives can be accredited across the entire offense and OC. The Texans want to establish the run when they have no running game, which sticks the team into a lot of 2nd - 3rd and long situations. They tend to make some really bone-headed mistakes when positive downs happen.....false starts and holding calls. Not sure about this.....but how many times has the Texans defense shut down an open drive?

I've seen enough over 3 seasons to know without a doubt that the moment Watson has a HC, OC, and team that is built around him.....he'll deliver. As for being a leader on the field, Watson has delivered enough in crunch time and played thru enough injuries to have Texans respect. They know this guy wants to win and that he's won at every level before arriving in Houston. Watson is a "Franchise QB" that the Texans can build a team around.
 
Last edited:

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Agree to some degree but how many top 5 QB's have been strapped to a defense as absolutely horrible as the Texans defense? This whole mess about first drives can be accredited across the entire offense and OC. The Texans want to establish the run when they have no running game, which sticks the team into a lot of 2nd - 3rd and long situations. They tend to make some really bone-headed mistakes when positive downs happen.....false starts and holding calls. Not sure about this.....but how many times has the Texans defense shut down an open drive?

I've seen enough over 3 seasons to know without a doubt that the moment Watson has a HC, OC, and team that is built around him.....he'll deliver. As for being a leader on the field, Watson has delivered enough in crunch time and played thru enough injuries to have Texans respect. They know this guy wants to win and know they know that he's won at every level before arriving in Houston. Watson is a "Franchise QB" that the Texans can build a team around.
Agreed and DW4 shares in this responsibility.

I surely haven't seen enough, he's basically the same guy that he was coming into the league. (Hero ball) He has improved his accuracy somewhat.

What has he delivered in crunch time. 51-7

He's a very tough guy and has played hurt when most wouldn't have.
 


Top