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Houston Texans 2017 2nd round pick, Zach Cunningham, LB, Vanderbilt

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I think you are thinking about me. I never wanted Clowney. I also liked when traded him, and I like what we got in return.
The only thing the Texans got out of that trade was not to have to pay premium money, which is fine by me for a team that's going nowhere.


But the return was dismay.

It doesn't matter all that much to me as I had said that Clowney is best as a hired gun for a contending team.

At the time of the draft, my opinion was that it only makes sense if the medical team proclaim him as low risk (which never was the case).

I'd rather that they traded down, but I believe McNair was a Gamecock.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
For the record, Over the years, I've been one who have complained about Cunningham's arm tackles and his coverage skills and speed did not match his draft reputation. BOB and Easterby made a mistake giving him that contract and I really didn't pay attention to the reasons Caserio restructured the contract.

I just find it funny that he is considered a JAG. But Caserio gets kudos for signing JAGs from other teams like Kirksey and KGH who are being mentioned as quality players you can build around.
Difference is a young guy like KGH is just getting his 1st real playing time and has proven to be a much better player than Cunningham. I would put Cunningham and Kirksey on the same talent level scale. However Kirksey is a little better in coverage. IMHO
 

vtech9

Veteran
The only thing the Texans got out of that trade was not to have to pay premium money, which is fine by me for a team that's going nowhere.


But the return was dismay.

It doesn't matter all that much to me as I had said that Clowney is best as a hired gun for a contending team.

At the time of the draft, my opinion was that it only makes sense if the medical team proclaim him as low risk (which never was the case).

I'd rather that they traded down, but I believe McNair was a Gamecock.
I wanted Khalil Mack from the jump. I always said I didn't like Clowney because he took too many plays off. I did say if he played up to his potential, he would be one of the best, but he never did. I know the Mingo portion of the Clowney trade didn't work out in the end, nor the draft pick we got, but I like Martin, so I'm not complaining.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
And that’s fine but again like I said his piers and a bunch coaches view his play totally different than yours. Thus the reason he was picked up less than 24 hours of his release.
And of course the experts on here wanted him traded or cut. But what does that really means bro?
The Titans are way down on the list. Im sure it’s safe to say most teams passed.

Week 13 draft order has the Titans at 29. In other words 27 teams other than the Texans didn’t want him.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I think you're being biased as you have always had a disdain for Clowney.

What's most telling is that the Browns fans want the FO to extend him.
Money talks.

Maybe you want to malign him because he doesn't live up to the lofty expectation of a No. 1 overall pick; but I have no interest in that.

I'm not claiming that he's a great player, but you will find people around the league calling him a disruptive player (for the opponent).

Back to the money talk; as you can see, Clowney never had any problem getting a job at a pretty good salary.
That ought to tell you something about his value.
Nobody is talking
obnoxious money, just good money.

As to the point of having another good-great player on the line; sometimes it helps, at other times, that guy may get the credit because one defender can chase the QB or RB into another defender.
The defender that gets the credit may even be another guy (a DT, a LB, a blitzing DB, depending on how the play evolves.)
Obviously, you have not watched the Browns games, otherwise you would see where the label lame came from. I guess I should choose not to believe my lying eyes.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Obviously, you have not watched the Browns games, otherwise you would see where the label lame came from. I guess I should choose not to believe my lying eyes.
Why on earth do the Browns fans want the FO to extend him then?

I don't watch the Browns much, only from time to time.
Right now, Mayfield's injury is probably their main concern.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
The Titans are way down on the list. Im sure it’s safe to say most teams passed.

Week 13 draft order has the Titans at 29. In other words 27 teams other than the Texans didn’t want him.
Like I said, there are many reasons why teams don't pick up players from the waiver.

Also, Ihe Titans are 8-4, the same as several team, and worse than 5 teams.
Using 27th may not be correct.

Contending teams are the ones most likely to pick up a player; that include the Rams and the Pats, both reported as interested.
The Pats were especially mentioned as Cunningham was heavily scouted by them in 2017.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I wanted Khalil Mack from the jump. I always said I didn't like Clowney because he took too many plays off. I did say if he played up to his potential, he would be one of the best, but he never did. I know the Mingo portion of the Clowney trade didn't work out in the end, nor the draft pick we got, but I like Martin, so I'm not complaining.
Martin is just a pass rush specialist for the most part.
He's not making anywhere near the overall impact that a less-than-healthy Clowney does.

A part of Clowney's game that goes underappreciated by some fans is his ability to contain the edge.
 
I'm "meh" on this. Another overpaid player on a bad football team. I don't know if the restructuring of his contract (30 March 2021) was to help facilitate a trade or if it was for cap space this year. If it was to facilitate a trade that means the current regime didn't see him as an integral part of the future since the restructure was long before the season. In this scenario the Texans asking price must have been too high since a new team would have next to no financial risk because there was no more guaranteed money after 2021 and his base is ultra low. Those factors lead me to believe that the restructure was for cap space. Heck Cunningham may have realized to get out of this mess he just needed act up a few times. He was a no show at practice in training camp, he was late to meetings leading up to the Browns game and now missing his Covid test especially since he is unvaccinated and missed a game already as a close contact.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Like I said, there are many reasons why teams don't pick up players from the waiver.

Also, Ihe Titans are 8-4, the same as several team, and worse than 5 teams.
Using 27th may not be correct.

Contending teams are the ones most likely to pick up a player; that include the Rams and the Pats, both reported as interested.
The Pats were especially mentioned as Cunningham was heavily scouted by them in 2017.
How far you think Darius Leonard would slide through waivers? 28? 31?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I'm "meh" on this. Another overpaid player on a bad football team. I don't know if the restructuring of his contract (30 March 2021) was to help facilitate a trade or if it was for cap space this year. If it was to facilitate a trade that means the current regime didn't see him as an integral part of the future since the restructure was long before the season. In this scenario the Texans asking price must have been too high since a new team would have next to no financial risk because there was no more guaranteed money after 2021 and his base is ultra low. Those factors lead me to believe that the restructure was for cap space. Heck Cunningham may have realized to get out of this mess he just needed act up a few times. He was a no show at practice in training camp, he was late to meetings leading up to the Browns game and now missing his Covid test especially since he is unvaccinated and missed a game already as a close contact.
As I had said, there was a clause in Cunningham's contract that calls for guarantee for injury in 2022.
Not sure what it really entails.

If the Texans did try to shop him during the season, nobody knows about the asking price.
So like you said, the asking price was probably too high.
(If the $8M something guarantee for injury can be avoided.)

At the beginning of the season, if a team only has to pay Cunningham 900K something (and doesn't have to worry about next year), most teams would jump for it, even if he only serves as a backup.

Maybe we'll know more about the guarantee for injury portion later, maybe during the off-season, to have a better idea of what it may entails.

If a team has to concern with that, along with a high asking price (during the last off-season); it's easy to see the lack of buyer.

The most important thing is we don't know the asking price.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
The only thing the Texans got out of that trade was not to have to pay premium money, which is fine by me for a team that's going nowhere.


But the return was dismay.

It doesn't matter all that much to me as I had said that Clowney is best as a hired gun for a contending team.

At the time of the draft, my opinion was that it only makes sense if the medical team proclaim him as low risk (which never was the case).

I'd rather that they traded down, but I believe McNair was a Gamecock.
I recall the Texans WERE trying to trade down, and I even recall rumors the Bills were interested. Not sure what happened though?
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
I wanted Khalil Mack from the jump. I always said I didn't like Clowney because he took too many plays off. I did say if he played up to his potential, he would be one of the best, but he never did. I know the Mingo portion of the Clowney trade didn't work out in the end, nor the draft pick we got, but I like Martin, so I'm not complaining.
I never thought "taking plays off" was a problem with Clowney when he was with the Texans. Staying healthy, lack of pass rush moves, and finishing plays were my top 3 issues with Clowney.

With that being said, I think Clowney is a good football player. I thought he was very good with the Texans. I understand, though, that he was a disappointment as a #1 overall pick.
 

banned1976

sleeper mode
Cunningham wanted out and he found a way to make it happen. That’s becoming a problem for the Texans and regardless of what you may think of him, he’s a pretty good player when motivated. He’s young and healthy as well.

We didn’t see the best of Cunningham because at some point last season he stopped caring. Not unusual for Texans players recently. It’s a problem.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
I recall the Texans WERE trying to trade down, and I even recall rumors the Bills were interested. Not sure what happened though?
I remember reading the same thing. Think they traded with someone else for Sammy Watkins. It takes two to tango and when Blake Bortles is the first QB drafted its hard to get teams to trade up to 1.
 
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Earl34

All Pro
That's what I think.
Me too. If Cunningham really wanted to be here. He would have told Culley he was late to meetings because he was stuck in traffic on 59 and he thought Culley would understand because taking three hours to go 100 yards was the standard being set by the offense.

On the other hand. Culley might say, "that's no excuse. we traded Mercilus months ago".
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Me too. If Cunningham really wanted to be here. He would have told Culley he was late to meetings because he was stuck in traffic on 59 and he thought Culley would understand because taking three hours to go 100 yards was the standard being set by the offense.

On the other hand. Culley might say, "that's no excuse. we traded Mercilus months ago".
And to be fair, what could those meetings possibly be about? With what they do, or don’t do, on the field every Sunday, it doesn’t appear to be football related meetings.

Guys like KGH talk the good talk because he’s a starter on an NFL team for the first time in his career, and knows this is probably the only place he can do that. I think guys like Justin Reid hit the door running at season’s end.

This culture bullshit is just that, bullshit. What happened to the culture of winning and competing for championships? That kind of culture sure would be nice.
 

Earl34

All Pro
And to be fair, what could those meetings possibly be about? With what they do, or don’t do, on the field every Sunday, it doesn’t appear to be football related meetings.

Guys like KGH talk the good talk because he’s a starter on an NFL team for the first time in his career, and knows this is probably the only place he can do that. I think guys like Justin Reid hit the door running at season’s end.

This culture bullshit is just that, bullshit. What happened to the culture of winning and competing for championships? That kind of culture sure would be nice.
Exactly. I think it was Zierlein who mentioned that BOB and staff wanted to put posters around the facility to reinforce their Smart, Tough, Dependable motto. At some point, they realized the acronym was STD or if they spelled it out, the capital letters would catch everyone's eye as STD. So, they spent time discussing the acronym and changing the order of Smart, Tough, Dependable.

If, this story is true. It's just another example of how they spend so much effort on crap not related to winning games and makes me wonder if there is a box of STD signs in a storage room at NRG?
 

Texanmike02

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Cunningham wanted out and he found a way to make it happen. That’s becoming a problem for the Texans and regardless of what you may think of him, he’s a pretty good player when motivated. He’s young and healthy as well.

We didn’t see the best of Cunningham because at some point last season he stopped caring. Not unusual for Texans players recently. It’s a problem.
Watson's agent is on the phone trying to figure out the magic words right now...
 

Texanmike02

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
We're remembering things very differently. I don't remember one person excited or relieved that Cunningham was resigned. Most were upset that it happened & more upset at the amount.

I liked McKinney better. If I were going to keep one overpriced LB it would have been McKinney.



I'm not defending the cut, per se... I'm just saying it is not something to get worked over about. Most here wasn't happy he was on the team getting paid what he was getting paid.

We learned the Texans tries to trade him in the offseason & again at the deadline. No takers. So far not claimed off waivers.

He's been a disciplinary problem twice that we know of. They decided to cut ties. Absolutely nothing to get excited about.




My point is if we were getting rid of offensive players, or disciplining offensive players I could believe it's an issue of a rookie HC imposing his will. But since most of it is defensive players, I can't make that connection.
He's one of the few guys on defense who might have accidentally scored and screwed up the draft? Guys on the O know better than to score, that much is obvious.
 

Clowney grading out as the 45th ranked edge rusher is not particularly 'good', given the double-teams are largely on Myles Garrett (#1 ranked edge rusher in the NFL).

Clowney's PFF ranking and scoring are significantly below where he was in his peak Texans seasons, when he was typically top-15 in the league with scores around or above 80.
In 2020 he had his worse PFF score since 2014
In 2021 his 67.4 score and #45 rank are markedly worse still. He's currently ranked below Jacob Martin and barely above Whitney Mercilus and Charles Omenihu.

We'll never know how good he might have been without the knee issues, but while still a decent player, he appears to be in decline.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Clowney grading out as the 45th ranked edge rusher is not particularly 'good', given the double-teams are largely on Myles Garrett (#1 ranked edge rusher in the NFL).

Clowney's PFF ranking and scoring are significantly below where he was in his peak Texans seasons, when he was typically top-15 in the league with scores around or above 80.
In 2020 he had his worse PFF score since 2014
In 2021 his 67.4 score and #45 rank are markedly worse still. He's currently ranked below Jacob Martin and barely above Whitney Mercilus and Charles Omenihu.

We'll never know how good he might have been without the knee issues, but while still a decent player, he appears to be in decline.
You guys might be going off name recognition a bit too much.

 

austins23

Hall of Fame
And to be fair, what could those meetings possibly be about? With what they do, or don’t do, on the field every Sunday, it doesn’t appear to be football related meetings.

Guys like KGH talk the good talk because he’s a starter on an NFL team for the first time in his career, and knows this is probably the only place he can do that. I think guys like Justin Reid hit the door running at season’s end.

This culture bullshit is just that, bullshit. What happened to the culture of winning and competing for championships? That kind of culture sure would be nice.
This ^^^^
Culture, dependable, blah blah blah….
Give me a team of dudes! Just DUDES. Dudes that walk around and want to kick mofos arses. Nasty, mean guys. This culture crap is way overrated. This team hasn’t had a mean nasty mofo since Cushing. Say what you what about him but he wanted nothing more than to knock a mofo out.
 


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