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Houston Texans 2017 2nd round pick, Zach Cunningham, LB, Vanderbilt

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Man you guys are spot freaking on. This organization is moving in the right freaking direction.
Nobody is saying that.

Yall are spot on Cunningham was straight up trash and shouldn't have been in the league period.
Not saying this either. But KGH has out performed him this season. A JAG. Cunningham might have more tackles, but KGH & Kirksey have had more impact
 

banned1976

sleeper mode
Nobody is saying that.


Not saying this either. But KGH has out performed him this season. A JAG. Cunningham might have more tackles, but KGH & Kirksey have had more impact
KGH is playing himself into a new contract next offseason when he becomes a FA. Not sure where he will be playing but it probably won't be for the Texans because they likely won't be able to afford him.

At this point in his career, Kirksey is a JAG and has played like one.

When 2022 rolls around, the linebacker situation will be shuffled again with a new set of refurbished products.

Last but not least, the Texans, with KGH and Kirksey are dead last against the run. As we have seen with Cunningham, having the most tackles on a miserable defense doesn't mean all that much.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Nobody is saying that.


Not saying this either. But KGH has out performed him this season. A JAG. Cunningham might have more tackles, but KGH & Kirksey have had more impact
Brother Thunder its about getting value for your main players. They didn't for Hopkins, Clowney and a many more players. And watch them not get equal value for Watson. I really don't understand you gents way of thinking. I remember most of yall complaining about not getting equal value for players. And then yall are cool with this move.

Like I said this MWD hand will stick with the oilfield directional chair and not the Texans GM chair.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club

$12.8 million in dead cap money next year by waiving him!! He was an asset you could have traded and got something. I was told Nick Caserio was competent and smart. His moves have sucked. One of the idiot that gave Cunningham that ridiculous contract and was responsible for the worst trade in NFL history is STILL employed. This team continues to set the bar for stupidity. Proud of our city for giving this team the finger by no longer going to games or watching this crap on TV. That’s that only way that change will happen. We are giving up our PSLs. We have had tickets since the beginning. **** Cal, Easterby, Caserio and Culley.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Continuity among offensive linemen might be kinda important. Which also answers your second question.

I know you like Caserio and that's cool. I'm willing to give him a second off-season myself. But Culley is a place holder and his in-house disciplary management is clearly screwing the pooch. The Cunningham cut was just outright stupid. Short of us finding out Zach's at parlors daily, he was one of the few assets we have. Worst case scenario, make him inactive for the rest of the season and deal him. Instead, we lost a tradeable asset and cap space all to feed Culley's ego. With the info we have now, this was horribly managed.
Even if they'd kept Cunningham, and somehow traded him after the season the Texans still would be saddled with the dead-money because nobody was assuming that obligation, right ?
On the Culley hire, a minority coach, weren't the Texans in large part were placating Watson ?
And we have 50 M in dead money year, ? Wow, just wow ! But the bulk of that is primarily Watsons contract, and Casserio certainly is completely inculpable for the Watson mess.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Lol… ?

You know this means the 20 teams ahead of the Titans did not want him? That’s more than half the teams in the league.
Not every team needs a LB at this stage of the season.
And as I had mentioned; some team, like the Rams, may not be able to afford him, depending on how the Injury Clause in his contract is worded.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
...Last but not least, the Texans, with KGH and Kirksey are dead last against the run. As we have seen with Cunningham, having the most tackles on a miserable defense doesn't mean all that much.
What positions do they play? Who has primary responsibility for the run in a 43? I have always thought it was the MIKE. Who is playing this position?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame

I imagine Vrabel knows what Cunningham can do.
Or……. he’s desperate as hell b/c he no longer has Derrick Henry to carry his offense/team and Tanny has turned back into a pumpkin….& his suspect defense also lost Dupree. He also picked up Clowney last year too..how’d that work out for him? Wouldn’t read too much into the pick up at all other than “hey, I know you!”
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Or……. he’s desperate as hell b/c he no longer has Derrick Henry to carry his offense/team and Tanny has turned back into a pumpkin….& his suspect defense also lost Dupree. He also picked up Clowney last year too..how’d that work out for him? Wouldn’t read too much into the pick up at all other than “hey, I know you!”
They're a thing called playbook.
You know this is not sand lot flag football.
A player has to come in and learn the playbook.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
The Texans brass is starting to rub off on a lot of members on here. Their identity and mentality when it comes to players value.

Most of yall beat down the notion of how important it is to build through the draft. You had a opportunity to get a draft pick or two for a quality starting player. And you cut him for what, that's right basically nothing. And you gents are fine with that. Lol
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The Texans brass is starting to rub off on a lot of members on here. Their identity and mentality when it comes to players value.

Most of yall beat down the notion of how important it is to build through the draft. You had a opportunity to get a draft pick or two for a quality starting player. And you cut him for what, that's right basically nothing. And you gents are fine with that. Lol
it remains to be seen if they could’ve gotten anything…which is what you dudes don’t understand. Just b/c someone picked him up for Pennie’s on the dollar doesn’t mean there was a market for him & they would’ve given us compensation for him. It isn’t either or buddy
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Lol… ?

You know this means the 20 teams ahead of the Titans did not want him? That’s more than half the teams in the league.
Why would any of the bad teams want him right now? I mean, what difference does he make for the Jags or Jets or Giants, etc?

Tennessee actually makes sense because Vrabel has had him and might be able to get something out of him.

I was ignorant about how the contract stuff worked so that’s why I didn’t think he’d get claimed. It appears though that the Texans once again made it easy for someone else while they bite the bullet.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
he got claimed…remains to be seen whether you could’ve gotten anything for him in a trade…your theory is still just that…a theory. Aside from that, it still doesn’t mean he’s any good.
I never claimed that he was "that good".

Your view was that if he doesn't get claimed, he has no value; therefore, when he gets claimed he has certain value.

Plain and simple.
There's no use getting into what kind of a value it is.

Player on waiver does not give the team that waives him a draft pick.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Brother Thunder its about getting value for your main players. They didn't for Hopkins, Clowney and a many more players. And watch them not get equal value for Watson. I really don't understand you gents way of thinking. I remember most of yall complaining about not getting equal value for players. And then yall are cool with this move.

Like I said this MWD hand will stick with the oilfield directional chair and not the Texans GM chair.
There is no value to crap players.

Knowing all of Derrick's issues, what's a fair value IYO?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The Texans brass is starting to rub off on a lot of members on here. Their identity and mentality when it comes to players value.

Most of yall beat down the notion of how important it is to build through the draft. You had a opportunity to get a draft pick or two for a quality starting player. And you cut him for what, that's right basically nothing. And you gents are fine with that. Lol
A JAG.

Not a quality player.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I never claimed that he was "that good".

Your view was that if he doesn't get claimed, he has no value; therefore, when he gets claimed he has certain value.

Plain and simple.
There's no use getting into what kind of a value it is.

Player on waiver does not give the team that waives him a draft pick.
And that’s the bottom line right there, they didn’t get anything for him. It’s like no matter who the New England retreads are, they come here and make some of the dumb hasty decision ever.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
In 2019 and 2020, Clowney received the most double team than any pass rusher in the NFL.

Each situation is different.
Clowney is a fairly expensive hired gun.
He had some injury issues last year (which is fairly normal for him).
But he's having a good season so far this year.
Your definition of good eludes me.
As to what I responded to............He is not having a good season..............and that is with Myles Garrett on the other side.............which by all reports/predictions were to have most of the pressure taken off of him................and it did.............and still his production has been lame.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
A JAG.

Not a quality player.
I can guarantee you he’s viewed as a quality player amongst his piers and to a bunch of coaches across the league. They’re paid the big bucks to actually evaluate these players. Unlike us arm chair GM’s , coaches and football executives on here.
 

vtech9

Veteran
I'm confused. I seem to remember a lot of the talk about Cunningham from earlier this season, wanting him to be cut or traded. Or that it was a mistake to give him the contract extension. I don't understand why people are coming out and saying that this is a bad move now. They tried to trade him, and couldn't, so.....c'ya, wouldn't want to be ya.

The only positive things I remember hearing about him is that he is good in run defense. Conversely, I've also hear how bad he is in pass defense. If he was so good in run defense, why was the Texans defense so bad at stopping the run? Was the rest of the defense that bad? Possibly. Maybe my memory is faulty, but I don't remember him having an overabundance of stops at or behind the LOS. I seem to recall most of his stops coming after the RB has already gained 3 or 4 yards, or more.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I can guarantee you he’s viewed as a quality player amongst his piers and to a bunch of coaches across the league. They’re paid the big bucks to actually evaluate these players. Unlike us arm chair GM’s , coaches and football executives on here.
& we just disagree. All I remember is complaint after complaint about him. Before the contract & even more after it.

I know I don't remember any game changing plays. I've never wanted a 41 jersey (& I still rock my 12).

I never put Cunningham on that tier with Hopkins, Clowney... heck I put Greenard, KGH, & Reid above Cunningham. Let those guys go for nothing & I'll be mad.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
& we just disagree. All I remember is complaint after complaint about him. Before the contract & even more after it.

I know I don't remember any game changing plays. I've never wanted a 41 jersey (& I still rock my 12).

I never put Cunningham on that tier with Hopkins, Clowney... heck I put Greenard, KGH, & Reid above Cunningham. Let those guys go for nothing & I'll be mad.
Be careful what you ask for.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
As to what I responded to............He is not having a good season..............and that is with Myles Garrett on the other side.............which by all reports/predictions were to have most of the pressure taken off of him................and it did.............and still his production has been lame.
I think you're being biased as you have always had a disdain for Clowney.

What's most telling is that the Browns fans want the FO to extend him.
Money talks.

Maybe you want to malign him because he doesn't live up to the lofty expectation of a No. 1 overall pick; but I have no interest in that.

I'm not claiming that he's a great player, but you will find people around the league calling him a disruptive player (for the opponent).

Back to the money talk; as you can see, Clowney never had any problem getting a job at a pretty good salary.
That ought to tell you something about his value.
Nobody is talking
obnoxious money, just good money.

As to the point of having another good-great player on the line; sometimes it helps, at other times, that guy may get the credit because one defender can chase the QB or RB into another defender.
The defender that gets the credit may even be another guy (a DT, a LB, a blitzing DB, depending on how the play evolves.)
 
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beerlover

Hall of Fame
Cunningham is a playmaker and run stopper in the right system (no longer here, obviously). Tennessee is better fit with Vrabel and in a fight with Colts to win Division if it works he’s a genius, if it doesn’t well least they tried. That’s what good teams, in contention do, of course we’ve forgot. Rebuild from hell if you ask me, hardly ideal, very painful, wasteful use of resources. We’ll see it unfold, on our TV’s, monitors, cell phones or sports bar play out in playoffs. While we sit and wait for outcome of Deshaun Watson saga and 2022 Draft :texflag:
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I'm confused. I seem to remember a lot of the talk about Cunningham from earlier this season, wanting him to be cut or traded. Or that it was a mistake to give him the contract extension. I don't understand why people are coming out and saying that this is a bad move now. They tried to trade him, and couldn't, so.....c'ya, wouldn't want to be ya.

The only positive things I remember hearing about him is that he is good in run defense. Conversely, I've also hear how bad he is in pass defense. If he was so good in run defense, why was the Texans defense so bad at stopping the run? Was the rest of the defense that bad? Possibly. Maybe my memory is faulty, but I don't remember him having an overabundance of stops at or behind the LOS. I seem to recall most of his stops coming after the RB has already gained 3 or 4 yards, or more.
The majority of the complaints is that Cunningham doesn't deserve the big contract.

There's a big number of LBs in the league.
Here, PFF doesn't divide them up into OLB in a 3-4 or ILB in any scheme, so there could be more than 100 starting LBs in the NFL.

And they ranked him 13th last year, even though they did note that he missed several tackles.

Even if you knock that off by 32 spots (to make sure to remove any type of bias); that would still be 45th out of more than 100 linebackers.

Right now, I think a few who likes to defend Caserio have been trying a bit hard to bury him to fit their agenda.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
& we just disagree. All I remember is complaint after complaint about him. Before the contract & even more after it.

I know I don't remember any game changing plays. I've never wanted a 41 jersey (& I still rock my 12).

I never put Cunningham on that tier with Hopkins, Clowney... heck I put Greenard, KGH, & Reid above Cunningham. Let those guys go for nothing & I'll be mad.
And that’s fine but again like I said his piers and a bunch coaches view his play totally different than yours. Thus the reason he was picked up less than 24 hours of his release.
And of course the experts on here wanted him traded or cut. But what does that really means bro?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
& we just disagree. All I remember is complaint after complaint about him. Before the contract & even more after it.

I know I don't remember any game changing plays. I've never wanted a 41 jersey (& I still rock my 12).

I never put Cunningham on that tier with Hopkins, Clowney... heck I put Greenard, KGH, & Reid above Cunningham. Let those guys go for nothing & I'll be mad.
Splash plays are good, but they're not everything.
The other guys have had their share of bad plays, too.

When you realize that the opponents march up and down the field, when Cunningham was not in there, scoring at will, then maybe you'll get off his case.

Look at the snap counts here:


Cunningham wasn't playing in either game that the Texans got shut out.
And the opponents scored a bunch.

In the 3 games that he played the fewest snaps, the opponents scored a bunch, too.

In the two games that the Texans won, he played 100% of the snaps.

Overall, in the five games where he played 100% of the snaps, the opponents scored the fewest points.
 
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Earl34

All Pro
I can guarantee you he’s viewed as a quality player amongst his piers and to a bunch of coaches across the league. They’re paid the big bucks to actually evaluate these players. Unlike us arm chair GM’s , coaches and football executives on here.
I guess Titans players have more respect for Cunningham's game than we do. Here is Henry and Lewan talking about Cunningham.

 

Earl34

All Pro
A JAG.

Not a quality player.
For the record, Over the years, I've been one who have complained about Cunningham's arm tackles and his coverage skills and speed did not match his draft reputation. BOB and Easterby made a mistake giving him that contract and I really didn't pay attention to the reasons Caserio restructured the contract.

I just find it funny that he is considered a JAG. But Caserio gets kudos for signing JAGs from other teams like Kirksey and KGH who are being mentioned as quality players you can build around.
 


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