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Hopkins traded to Cardinals?

thunderkyss said:
True.

But to say it was something they, "complained" about is a little misleading. As if they wanted to trade him. Far as I know no one here wanted him gone.
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They didn't want to trade him. But after the trade, it was similar to the posts about he wasn't practicing or running wrong routes or getting too many targets. It was to justify the trade.
It's not worth the effort to search the forum. The posters know who they are.
 
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I believe someone found it hilarious that I mentioned Hopkins as a future HoF receiver. How could any Texans fan with a set of eyes find that statement untrue? I'm going to take it another step and say he'll be a first ballot HoF selection. If he keeps up his private life.....he'll probably get the first annual "Janice McNair Genetic Jackhammer Of The Year" award as well.
 
Earl34 said:
They didn't want to trade him. But after the trade, it was similar to the posts about he wasn't practicing or running wrong wrongs or getting too many targets. It was to justify the trade.
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....you mean BULL-SHITE!!!!!!! Stupid arses were trying to cover the absolute stupidity of this trade like a cat trying to cover shite on a hardwood floor. They stood there after announcing the trade looking for some kind of congratulatory gesture and only got laughed out of the building by everyone and anyone who knows football....including the old janitor who was leaning on his mop in the back of the room and pointing his old arse finger at Chin-Hole while laughing.
 
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thunderkyss said:
True.

But to say it was something they, "complained" about is a little misleading. As if they wanted to trade him. Far as I know no one here wanted him gone.
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It was less about digging up something on Nuk and more about defending their boy OB and trying to justify his move. Oh, and taking shots at Watson too, him focusing too much on Nuk, blah, blah, blah. Nobody here wanted to trade Nuk, and certainly not for a bag of day old donuts, and nobody was complaining about his targets, until after the fact. That's when the blind, head up your ass comments rose it's ugly head - if that's even physically possible.
 
Carr Bombed said:
I said it before.. He was the best WR who played for this franchise.. and Bill didn't get crap for him. HOF player in his prime, nothing in return.
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AJ was by far the best WR to ever play for this franchise...not close imo. AJ had a much larger impact than Nuk ever had.

HOF player by the numbers..... but those numbers have average/below average impact on his teams' W-L's.... that will be on the tombstone of Nuk's career when he is compared to other guys with similar gaudy numbers. & its why i've never been all that P'Oed about the trade really. I've just never viewed Nuk in that high a regard like that. We had him here for years & we never saw our offense go beyond 15 & we're kinda seeing the same thing in AZ. The gaudy numbers he puts up simply don't translate to much better offense & more wins for his teams for whatever reason.

Hell, just look at him compared to Diggs. The numbers of both are virtually identical but Diggs has had way more of an impact on Buffalo's offense than Hop has on AZ's....Buffalo was ranked 23-24 offensively last year, this year with the addition of diggs they are ranked top 5 offensively; Dude has effectively helped turn Allen into a fringe MVP candidate. AZ? better than they were last year at scoring points, but only modestly..but you would expect them to make a more significant jump in this area with the so-called "best WR in the game"...
 
Mr teX said:
AJ was by far the best WR to ever play for this franchise...not close imo. AJ had a much larger impact than Nuk ever had.

HOF player by the numbers..... but those numbers have average/below average impact on his teams' W-L's.... that will be on the tombstone of Nuk's career when he is compared to other guys with similar gaudy numbers. & its why i've never been all that P'Oed about the trade really. I've just never viewed Nuk in that high a regard like that. We had him here for years & we never saw our offense go beyond 15 & we're kinda seeing the same thing in AZ. The gaudy numbers he puts up simply don't translate to much better offense & more wins for his teams for whatever reason.

Hell, just look at him compared to Diggs. The numbers of both are virtually identical but Diggs has had way more of an impact on Buffalo's offense than Hop has on AZ's....Buffalo was ranked 23-24 offensively last year, this year with the addition of diggs they are ranked top 5 offensively; Dude has effectively helped turn Allen into a fringe MVP candidate. AZ? better than they were last year at scoring points, but only modestly..but you would expect them to make a more significant jump in this area with the so-called "best WR in the game"...
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No he didnt.. AJ before injury was a much better athlete, but as far as pure receiver and hands Dhop is much better and made a bigger impact. His 50/50 balls are more like 80/20 and he scored with a hellava lot more regularity than AJ did (who never even recorded a double digit TD season.. Dhop was a much better redzone receiver hence bigger impact.
 
Carr Bombed said:
No he didnt.. AJ before injury was a much better athlete, but as far as pure receiver and hands Dhop is much better and made a bigger impact. His 50/50 balls are more like 80/20 and he scored with a hellava lot more regularity than AJ did (who never even recorded a double digit TD season.. Dhop was a much better redzone receiver hence bigger impact.
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Lol, bro, no. AJ has 3-4 seasons that rival or are flat out better than Nuk's best season to date. Literally the only thing Nuk has over him is double digit TD seasons. But Kubes also never threw up the 50/50 balls to any WR in the end zone like that......he always preferred to run the ball in...you know that. AJ also never played with a talent anywhere close to a WFV opposite him in his prime & he never enjoyed a talent throwing him the ball like DW4 either. He also played in a different era..not this wide open **** these guys play in now. That underneath stuff that OD and Foster used to catch was open b/c of AJ.

AJ is/was the prototype WR that tilted schemes. Nuk is a reincarnation of Anquan Boldin that enjoys more targets....imo of course.
 
AJ and Hopkins.....1A & 1B. Simple, if AJ would've been at his peak with Hopkins, they would've been the dynamic duo.
 
Either stats matter in evaluating situations or they don't.

But regardless, it never really seems to consider the JAG QBs Nuk played with before #4 arrived. The dude thrives regardless of who is throwing the ball to him.

This was clearly a stupid decision by the Texans and 99% of people across the country agree. The 1% are just doing what they do and nobody really cares or takes them seriously.
 
Double Barrel said:
Either stats matter in evaluating situations or they don't.

But regardless, it never really seems to consider the JAG QBs Nuk played with before #4 arrived. The dude thrives regardless of who is throwing the ball to him.

This was clearly a stupid decision by the Texans and 99% of people across the country agree. The 1% are just doing what they do and nobody really cares or takes them seriously.
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The decision to trade him for what they got wasn't being debated..whether he was a better WR than AJ is what CB & i were discussing.

& Here's that great list of QB's AJ spent his career catching passes from:

Matt Schaub
Tony Banks
Sage Rosenfels
David Carr
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Case Keenum
TJ Yates
Luck (1)
Mariota (2)

& a few other guys well past their primes (Hasselbeck) and/or never was' (Ryan Lindley).

It ain't as black & white as you try to portray it. Stats & accolades do matter...just depends on how much weight do you wanna assign to them is all. when they're so ridiculous as in the case of a guy like Wilt Chamberlain, it doesn't even matter who you played against & how you got them.. In this case though, they don't really matter a whole lot imo.

& yes Nuk has played with a bunch of garbage too...a few of those he & AJ shared. but clearly the lionshare of Nuk's numbers comes from the most talented Qb this franchise has ever had & he was traded to play with another guy that is clearly more talented than anyone AJ ever got to play with for more than a few games. hell he caught almost as many TD's from DW4 in 3 years (25) that AJ caught from Schaub in 6 (32). That disparity isn't b/c Nuk is that much better of a WR than AJ was...it's b/c of the talent getting them the rock & AJ was always at a clear disadvantage in that regard when compared to his contemporaries.

At the end of Nuk's career, the numbers will look great..better than more than a few guys already in the HOF...or soon to be going..but he will not have had anywhere close to the impact they had on their respective teams' offenses...unless he goes on a run like Fitzgerald did in the very near future.
 
Mr teX said:
Lol, bro, no. AJ has 3-4 seasons that rival or are flat out better than Nuk's best season to date. Literally the only thing Nuk has over him is double digit TD seasons. But Kubes also never threw up the 50/50 balls to any WR in the end zone like that......he always preferred to run the ball in...you know that. AJ also never played with a talent anywhere close to a WFV opposite him in his prime & he never enjoyed a talent throwing him the ball like DW4 either. He also played in a different era..not this wide open **** these guys play in now. That underneath stuff that OD and Foster used to catch was open b/c of AJ.

AJ is/was the prototype WR that tilted schemes. Nuk is a reincarnation of Anquan Boldin that enjoys more targets....imo of course.
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A.J. had 3 1,500 yard seasons.. D Hop is already working on his 3rd 3 years younger.. He's going to smash all of Andre's stats by the time he hangs up his cleats.. receptions, yards, and TDs.. and the reason why he gets tossed more 50/50 balls is simply, because he's a much superior catcher of the football.. some of the greatest hands ever at the position..

Can't believe you invoked Will Fuller's name.. dude can never stay on the damn field.
 
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Mollywhopper said:
Andre, Hop, and Boldin all actually got targeted at almost exactly the same rate..
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rate doesn't quite measure up either. Nuk has never seen a season where he was targeted under 120 times but was healthy for 90% of his games. Boldin saw 4 in his playing days. If Boldin had come into the league around this same time, he'd be just as prolific of a WR as Nuk is now imo. Just a different era.
 
Carr Bombed said:
A.J. had 3 15,000 yard seasons.. D Hop is already working on his 3rd 3 years younger.. He's going to smash all of Andre's stats by the time he hangs up his cleats.. receptions, yards, and TDs.. and the reason why he gets tossed more 50/50 balls is simply, because he's a much superior catcher of the football.. some of the greatest hands ever at the position..

Can't believe you invoked Will Fuller's name.. dude can never stay on the damn field.
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Even in his sporadic playing time, Will Fuller is better than ANYONE AJ ever had opposite of him in his prime except Nuk himself for the few years they played together......I mean, that's not even debateable. & Yes Nuk is working on his 3rd 3 years younger, but has had much better talent throwing him the ball over the lionshare of his career....again not debateable. The "50/50" ball argument you're trying to make is clearly an opinion of yours, but lets not also not act like AJ still didn't snatch down his fair share of those 50/50 balls when he was given the opportunities to. Kubiak simply just didn't throw him those balls & Schaub was also one of the worst deep ball/touch throwers i've ever seen. How many times did we all watch Schaub underthrowing AJ on deep balls that more or less turned into 50/50 balls when AJ had to slow down & allow the db to catch up? How many of those same balls were CLEARLY touchdowns if Schaub leads him?

Nuk's stats look gaudy, but when i compare him against his contemporaries....Antonio Brown, Tyreke Hill...he's clearly #3 to those guys. Hell, AJ Brown & DJ Metcalf have already proven to be more impactful to their teams' offenses and teams than Nuk.
 
Mr teX said:
rate doesn't quite measure up either. Nuk has never seen a season where he was targeted under 120 times but was healthy for 90% of his games. Boldin saw 4 in his playing days. If Boldin had come into the league around this same time, he'd be just as prolific of a WR as Nuk is now imo. Just a different era.
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different receivers too.. in his prime Boldin like Andre was a YAC machine.. Hopkins still has superior receiving ability than both.
 
Johnson / Hopkins and Fitzgerald / Boldin.....4 pretty special receivers. All 4 could've had monster stats if they were with Patriots/Brady during the majority of their careers. Any speculation as to how TB would've enjoyed this?
 
Carr Bombed said:
different receivers too.. in his prime Boldin like Andre was a YAC machine.. Hopkins still has superior receiving ability than both.
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Disagree...Its just all in how they were used within thier offenses is all. I saw AJ go up and make some amazing catches when he had to...saw Boldin do the same thing. There was a time very early in Nuk's career when he was underrated. & much like the catch OBJ made against the cowboys that blew him up, i think when Nuk made that ridiculous catch against the steelers in that prime time game a few years ago...that meant nothing by the way in the grand scheme of that game, he's become more & more overrated as the years have gone on.
 
Mr teX said:
rate doesn't quite measure up either. Nuk has never seen a season where he was targeted under 120 times but was healthy for 90% of his games. Boldin saw 4 in his playing days. If Boldin had come into the league around this same time, he'd be just as prolific of a WR as Nuk is now imo. Just a different era.
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I'm going off of the first 8 years of their careers, as that's the only fair way to measure against the only time Hop has been in the league. And of course I'm going by rate as that's the only way to account for games missed for whatever reason.

All three of them had a career made up of 9 and half targets per game at that point.

They all also each had catch %'s of 61.2, 61.7, and 62.

Hopkins has just been healthier through that time span.
 
Mr teX said:
HOF player by the numbers..... but those numbers have average/below average impact on his teams' W-L's
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You can say the exact same thing about. . .Andre Johnson. :thinking:

I'm not going down the AJ vs. Nuk road. It's subjective at best. Both are HoF worthy WRs. Both deserved better than the Houston Texans. At least one got away while he was still in his prime.

You are one of the only people in this country still trying to justify this monumentally stupid trade.
 
Carr Bombed said:
gets tossed more 50/50 balls is simply, because he's a much superior catcher of the football.. some of the greatest hands ever at the position..
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while I agree....
Mr teX said:
but lets not also not act like AJ still didn't snatch down his fair share of those 50/50 balls when he was given the opportunities to.
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Truth....
1608736965296.png1608736993486.png1608737093947.png1608737121816.png+
Loved me some AJ...
 
Double Barrel said:
I'm not going down the AJ vs. Nuk road. It's subjective at best. Both are HoF worthy WRs. Both deserved better than the Houston Texans. At least one got away while he was still in his prime.
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How many times did AJ ask for his contract to be renegotiated? Did the Rick Smith and Bob McNair use that as an excuse to trade Andre? Was he ever even on the trade block?

Nope.
 
austins23 said:
You forgot Matt Leinart....
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Man, I had serious hopes that Leinart would bounce back with the Texans and finally show everyone why he was so good at USC.

As for the Johnson / Hopkins debate......AJ had the break away physicality and speed that Hopkins doesn't possess. Hopkins has the catch radius, hands, and 1 on 1 physicality over AJ. I really don't see the need for a debate....bottom line, they are the best 2 receivers in Houston professional football history. The sad part, the organization just didn't commit to a big time QB soon enough for AJ to easily hit his HoF numbers.

The Texans organization has only proved one thing in this debate, they absolutely know how to waste some fantastic talent and have the track record to prove it.
 
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Mr teX said:
AJ is/was the prototype WR that tilted schemes. Nuk is a reincarnation of Anquan Boldin that enjoys more targets....imo of course.
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I think he resembles more of a Fitzgerald to me. But yeah you can’t really go wrong with either of the two (AJ or Nuk). Both great players

I still remember in Nuk’s earlier years that because he didn’t have the top end speed, a few here thought he was nothing more than a number 2 wr:shrug:
 
OptimisticTexan said:
....you mean BULL-SHITE!!!!!!! Stupid arses were trying to cover the absolute stupidity of this trade like a cat trying to cover shite on a hardwood floor. They stood there after announcing the trade looking for some kind of congratulatory gesture and only got laughed out of the building by everyone and anyone who knows football....including the old janitor who was leaning on his mop in the back of the room and pointing his old arse finger at Chin-Hole while laughing.
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I believe I said many times I would've held onto Hopkins and made him play atleast 1 more yr in Houston before I considered trading him. Especially with the new CBA and the punitive nature that happens when a guy holds out.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Man, I had serious hopes that Leinart would bounce back with the Texans and finally show everyone why he was so good at USC.

As for the Johnson / Hopkins debate......AJ had the break away physicality and speed that Hopkins doesn't possess. Hopkins has the catch radius, hands, and 1 on 1 physicality over AJ. I really don't see the need for a debate....bottom line, they are the best 2 receivers in Houston professional football history. The sad part, the organization just didn't commit to a big time QB soon enough for AJ to easily hit his HoF numbers.

The Texans organization has only proved one thing in this debate, they absolutely know how to waste some fantastic talent and have the track record to prove it.
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Yep, and they keep on cashing those checks.
 
Speedy said:
It was less about digging up something on Nuk and more about defending their boy OB and trying to justify his move. Oh, and taking shots at Watson too, him focusing too much on Nuk, blah, blah, blah. Nobody here wanted to trade Nuk, and certainly not for a bag of day old donuts, and nobody was complaining about his targets, until after the fact. That's when the blind, head up your ass comments rose it's ugly head - if that's even physically possible.
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The Cardinals are not even moving Hopkins around. The majority of his targets are on the left side and defenses still cannot stop him.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1342991874135621641
 
Corrosion said:
How do you make WR's and RB's look better with quality QB play ? Ball placement .... (that's that accuracy thing I talked about months ago) the difference between in the catch radius and where the pass catcher can do something with it after the catch or is the only guy with a chance to catch it.

Last season DHop 25th in the league in total YAC but 3rd in catches. That 25th was the high on the team for 2019.

This year Brandin Cooks leads the team in YAC at 37th in the league , not another Texan in the top 80. Hopkins on the other hand is 7th and a 20% increase in YAC while the catch numbers are similar to last season.
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In this post, @Corrosion compared Hopkins' YAC with the Cardinals to his YAC with the Texans and blamed Watson's accuracy for the low YAC. So, instead of just defaulting to blaming Watson, I wanted to see what is different between 2019 and 2020. I came across this article with the following points.

All of us know that Hopkins is not a burner. We also know in 2019, O'Brien's ED scheme had him spending more and more time in the slot. So, what has changed? Besides putting him in motion more, it seems that the Cardinals are simply better at running WR screens than the Texans. They are targeting him more behind the LOS and fewer yards downfield and then allowing him to run (YAC). In other words, Hopkins is being targeted a career low 6.7 yards per pass, but his YAC has increased 20%. Now, you know the rest of the story. Coaching matters!

"Yards after catch is something I wanted to get better at going into this season. Something that I seen was low, but (Cardinals coach) Kliff (Kingsbury) put me in position to be able to do those things, make plays with the ball and put me one-on-one. It’s not just me but the blocking.”

"Arizona quarterback Kyler Murray is targeting Hopkins when the receiver is an average of 6.7 yards downfield, which is 3.3 yards fewer than he was targeted last year with the Texans. And last year was a career low for targeted air yards since NextGenStats has tracked the metric dating back to 2016. Many of Hopkins’ plays are starting behind the line of scrimmage, a feature of the Air Raid offense in the college game that isn’t so translatable to the NFL."

How DeAndre Hopkins is improving his YAC with the Arizona Cardinals (arizonasports.com)
 
Earl34 said:
In this post, @Corrosion compared Hopkins' YAC with the Cardinals to his YAC with the Texans and blamed Watson's accuracy for the low YAC. So, instead of just defaulting to blaming Watson, I wanted to see what is different between 2019 and 2020. I came across this article with the following points.
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Hold on there .... I didn't "Blame" anything , I just made a statistical observation.
 
Mr teX said:
I see folks are starting to complain about those pesky practice habits of his again....
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And them some folks have both feet in reality:

"Who needs practice? For the record, Hopkins routinely sat out of practices during his time with the Texans, too, but it didn't affect his play on game days. And consider this: In eight NFL seasons, Hopkins has only missed two regular-season games. Both times, it was for rest purposes in the final game of the year.:

Source: Talkin' 'bout practice, man: Cards' Hopkins might skip it once a week, but look at results

The head coach of the team doesn't seem to share the same concerns as those whining about it:

“DeAndre, he’s a unique and special talent,” Kingsbury explained. “He knows his body, he knows what he needs to do. He’s had some nicks and things here that have not allowed him to be out there as much as he’d like to be, or we’d like him to be at times.

“For us not being one of those teams that really airs it out, the numbers he’s putting up, the impact plays he’s putting up, all the pass interferences that he’s drawn, the first downs he’s accounted for, it’s really phenomenal. I just think the relationship between him and Kyler and our use of him and figuring out how to maximize him as a player is just going to get better.”
 
Earl34 said:
Based on your post. It appears, your statistical observation disingenuously based YAC on QB accuracy without taking into account how a WR is utilized in an offense. Otherwise, why associate accuracy and catch radius with low YAC?
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That word speaks to intent. I don't think he intended to deceive. That may legitimately be the way he understands the two to work together.
 
Double Barrel said:
And them some folks have both feet in reality:

"Who needs practice? For the record, Hopkins routinely sat out of practices during his time with the Texans, too, but it didn't affect his play on game days. And consider this: In eight NFL seasons, Hopkins has only missed two regular-season games. Both times, it was for rest purposes in the final game of the year.:

Source: Talkin' 'bout practice, man: Cards' Hopkins might skip it once a week, but look at results

The head coach of the team doesn't seem to share the same concerns as those whining about it:

“DeAndre, he’s a unique and special talent,” Kingsbury explained. “He knows his body, he knows what he needs to do. He’s had some nicks and things here that have not allowed him to be out there as much as he’d like to be, or we’d like him to be at times.

“For us not being one of those teams that really airs it out, the numbers he’s putting up, the impact plays he’s putting up, all the pass interferences that he’s drawn, the first downs he’s accounted for, it’s really phenomenal. I just think the relationship between him and Kyler and our use of him and figuring out how to maximize him as a player is just going to get better.”
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yeah, look at the results...supposed best WR in the game locked up in a win and in scenario.

Keep on worshipping his stats......bout as empty as they come.
 
JB said:
And AZ won how many games?
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I wasn't interested in a Hopkins debate. It was more about Hopkins laughing at giving up just a 2nd rounder for him. But since you asked:
  • They went from 4-12 to 8-8 with him
  • At one point they were 6-3
  • They lost 3 games by 3 points
  • They lost 1 game by 7 points
  • They lost 1 game by 8 points
  • They lost 2 games by 10 points
  • They lost 1 game by more than 10 points
So, yes they won only 8 games, but they made noticeable strides, were competitive and with some luck could have won 10 games and a playoff spot.
 
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Cant believe some on here care about Hopkins.

To me he's a non entity. Good riddance/taking out the trash.
 
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