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Honest Question to People Who Are Unsatisfied with the Free Agency Period

House of Pain

House of Pain

Wild Speculator
I've held my tongue here for a few years during Free Agency time, think I'm going to uncork one.

Before I speak my mind, I would like to say that I don't necessarily think that you shouldn't be trashing the Texans organization, coaching, and scouting departments. However:

I find it fascinating that the same people who trash the Texans organization, coaching, and scouting departments on the reg are the same people that think that they can take a cast-off OT with significant injury history and turn him into Jonathan Ogden because "He used to be good so obviously he can get back to that level!" and "He can be as good as Ephraim Salaam!" I'm beginning to think that y'all suffer from Schizophrenia, Bipolar disorder, or some sort of extreme cognitive dissonance. I know there is an exception to every rule, but how often do does a free agent with serious injury history who got cut from a team that needs him, actually pan out? Now ask yourself how many times that a completely clueless and inept coaching staff and organization (The Texans) took a team's trash and made it into a treasure? Not often. I think the kids on the twitters say "Change my mind" or at least have to say Breno's name seven times in a mirror, holding a red pencil in the dark.

I'm not the biggest TT diehard, nor been on TT longer than the "OGs" but I have been here long enough to realize when Cloak stamps a guy damaged goods, to heed his call. Dr. Jean is one of the only reasons I keep ignoring the "chicken little" numbskulls and serial bed wetters and sift through the TT dirt to find the gems of information that I cannot find anywhere else. I should probably give the Doctor a portion of the money I've made off my FF championships based on his armchair injury prognoses, but I digress.

If you really think that disregarding Cloak's advice to pass on this guy, and getting a name (cough, cough, Ed Reed, cough) for the sake of getting the name is dumb and fiscally irresponsible, then just ignore this post and carry on. Anyone who has watched this league for any sort of significant time and isn't completely delusional knows that you don't reach for crap guys and overpay them. That never works out well.

Just looking for a little consistency in thought and logic.

PS - Big shout out to all the people that rehashed the Carr@QB dilemma in the FA thread--thanks for the nightmares.
 
Texansphan

Texansphan

Football connoisseur
House of Pain said:
I've held my tongue here for a few years during Free Agency time, think I'm going to uncork one.

Before I speak my mind, I would like to say that I don't necessarily think that you shouldn't be trashing the Texans organization, coaching, and scouting departments. However:

I find it fascinating that the same people who trash the Texans organization, coaching, and scouting departments on the reg are the same people that think that they can take a cast-off OT with significant injury history and turn him into Jonathan Ogden because "He used to be good so obviously he can get back to that level!" and "He can be as good as Ephraim Salaam!" I'm beginning to think that y'all suffer from Schizophrenia, Bipolar disorder, or some sort of extreme cognitive dissonance. I know there is an exception to every rule, but how often do does a free agent with serious injury history who got cut from a team that needs him, actually pan out? Now ask yourself how many times that a completely clueless and inept coaching staff and organization (The Texans) took a team's trash and made it into a treasure? Not often. I think the kids on the twitters say "Change my mind" or at least have to say Breno's name seven times in a mirror, holding a red pencil in the dark.

I'm not the biggest TT diehard, nor been on TT longer than the "OGs" but I have been here long enough to realize when Cloak stamps a guy damaged goods, to heed his call. Dr. Jean is one of the only reasons I keep ignoring the "chicken little" numbskulls and serial bed wetters and sift through the TT dirt to find the gems of information that I cannot find anywhere else. I should probably give the Doctor a portion of the money I've made off my FF championships based on his armchair injury prognoses, but I digress.

If you really think that disregarding Cloak's advice to pass on this guy, and getting a name (cough, cough, Ed Reed, cough) for the sake of getting the name is dumb and fiscally irresponsible, then just ignore this post and carry on. Anyone who has watched this league for any sort of significant time and isn't completely delusional knows that you don't reach for crap guys and overpay them. That never works out well.

Just looking for a little consistency in thought and logic.

PS - Big shout out to all the people that rehashed the Carr@QB dilemma in the FA thread--thanks for the nightmares.
Click to expand...
First question - I would imagine not too often.
Second question - the list is unfortunately short: Jonathan Joseph, Antonio Smith (2009), receiver Kevin Walter (2006), guard Wade Smith (2010) and punter Shane Lechler (2013).
Of course, there have been bad ones too - erm (cough BO, ER cough)
Free agency signings can go wrong due to scheme unfitness or whatever. Texans are not the only organization to have failures in this regard.
The only team that has the ability to turn chumps into champs with regularity that springs to my mind are the NE Patriots - very few teams seem to have that ability.
I imagine even the mighty Pats have failures in this regard as well.
 
steelbtexan

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
House of Pain said:
I've held my tongue here for a few years during Free Agency time, think I'm going to uncork one.

Before I speak my mind, I would like to say that I don't necessarily think that you shouldn't be trashing the Texans organization, coaching, and scouting departments. However:

I find it fascinating that the same people who trash the Texans organization, coaching, and scouting departments on the reg are the same people that think that they can take a cast-off OT with significant injury history and turn him into Jonathan Ogden because "He used to be good so obviously he can get back to that level!" and "He can be as good as Ephraim Salaam!" I'm beginning to think that y'all suffer from Schizophrenia, Bipolar disorder, or some sort of extreme cognitive dissonance. I know there is an exception to every rule, but how often do does a free agent with serious injury history who got cut from a team that needs him, actually pan out? Now ask yourself how many times that a completely clueless and inept coaching staff and organization (The Texans) took a team's trash and made it into a treasure? Not often. I think the kids on the twitters say "Change my mind" or at least have to say Breno's name seven times in a mirror, holding a red pencil in the dark.

I'm not the biggest TT diehard, nor been on TT longer than the "OGs" but I have been here long enough to realize when Cloak stamps a guy damaged goods, to heed his call. Dr. Jean is one of the only reasons I keep ignoring the "chicken little" numbskulls and serial bed wetters and sift through the TT dirt to find the gems of information that I cannot find anywhere else. I should probably give the Doctor a portion of the money I've made off my FF championships based on his armchair injury prognoses, but I digress.

If you really think that disregarding Cloak's advice to pass on this guy, and getting a name (cough, cough, Ed Reed, cough) for the sake of getting the name is dumb and fiscally irresponsible, then just ignore this post and carry on. Anyone who has watched this league for any sort of significant time and isn't completely delusional knows that you don't reach for crap guys and overpay them. That never works out well.

Just looking for a little consistency in thought and logic.

PS - Big shout out to all the people that rehashed the Carr@QB dilemma in the FA thread--thanks for the nightmares.
Click to expand...
I'm a big believer in CnD, he does a better predicting injury outcomes than the Texans medical staff does without the resources they have. He warned us about Schaub/Cushing/DDW etc... and was spot on. Watt too,

He's currently warning us about Clowney and doesn't want Penn. I'm on board with moving Clowney.

I disagree with him about signing Penn. I would sign Penn on a 1 yr deal and hope he could play parts 4-5 games before getting hurt and showing the young rookie OT I drafted the ropes so the rookie will have some experience under his belt before having to take over full time. If you get extremely lucky then Penn plays well and stays healthy all season and the rookie gets his NFL feet wet in the NFL at RT.

I'm just thankful for CnD teaching me a different way to watch football. It's been a real eye opener for me.
 
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xtruroyaltyx

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
TLDR;

But I’m just tired of not feeling like this team can go into any playoff game and have a chance to win. There was maybe one or two years under kubiak I felt that way.

I’ve never felt that way under OB and the thing is I think under OB the talent has been better than the results on the field

Not necessarily that our W/L would have been drastically different but I think with better decisions by this front office and coaching staff we’d have had a better shot.

So this off season isn’t the sole reason I’m bitter about the team, it’s simply a microcosm of mostly their entire existence.

Until they get off this hamster wheel and make legit changes that I feel are conducive to winning or actually play better despite what decisions I think they should have made, my feelings about the team or my ever growing apathy probably won’t change either.

Btw if you quote my post and put tldr, I wouldn’t blame you :)
 
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beerlover

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Slipped up over years in addressing OL and all 32 teams need OL help so it’s very competitive in the open market for their services. IMO not taking care of Duane Brown when they had the chance before relationship soured was beginning of the end. They should have restacked their draft board (Dawkins over Cunningham for one example) and been prioritizing FA lineman or making smart trades to address this gaping hole.

To go out there in one off season and expect to overcome something that’s been largely ignored is just not doeable. O’Brian mentality is mostly to blame. I wonder if he still gets it? But I know Gaine does so we gotta give him time to rectify the damage done. That’s all I’m saying. SBT :bluesbro:
 
steelbtexan

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
beerlover said:
Slipped up over years in addressing OL and all 32 teams need OL help so it’s very competitive in the open market for their services. IMO not taking care of Duane Brown when they had the chance before relationship soured was beginning of the end. They should have restacked their draft board (Dawkins over Cunningham for one example) and been prioritizing FA lineman or making smart trades to address this gaping hole.

To go out there in one off season and expect to overcome something that’s been largely ignored is just not doeable. O’Brian mentality is mostly to blame. I wonder if he still gets it? But I know Gaine does so we gotta give him time to rectify the damage done. That’s all I’m saying. SBT :bluesbro:
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Like I said in an other thread, I would offer Miami this yrs 1 and next yrs 2 for Tunsil. Then I would try to trade Clowney for a 1.

Gotta think outside the box when you've screwed around with the OL so long. This would also give you more cap space.
 
C

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
xtruroyaltyx said:
TLDR;

But I’m just tired of not feeling like this team can go into any playoff game and have a chance to win. There was maybe one or two years under kubiak I felt that way.

I’ve never felt that way under OB and the thing is I think under OB the talent has been better than the results on the field

Not necessarily that our W/L would have been drastically different but I think with better decisions by this front office and coaching staff we’d have had a better shot.

So this off season isn’t the sole reason I’m bitter about the team, it’s simply a microcosm of mostly their entire existence.

Until they get off this hamster wheel and make legit changes that I feel are conducive to winning or actually play better despite what decisions I think they should have made, my feelings about the team or my ever growing apathy probably won’t change either.

Btw if you quote my post and put tldr, I wouldn’t blame you :)
Click to expand...
Read every word and that's pretty much where I'm at.
 
infantrycak

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
steelbtexan said:
Like I said in an other thread, I would offer Miami this yrs 1 and next yrs 2 for Tunsil. Then I would try to trade Clowney for a 1.

Gotta think outside the box when you've screwed around with the OL so long. This would also give you more cap space.
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Yeah, definitely outta the box to give up so much for a guy at essentially the same talent level.

Clowney's worth a 1st now?
 
JB

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
steelbtexan said:
Like I said in an other thread, I would offer Miami this yrs 1 and next yrs 2 for Tunsil. Then I would try to trade Clowney for a 1.

Gotta think outside the box when you've screwed around with the OL so long. This would also give you more cap space.
Click to expand...
steelbtexan said:
I think he's worth moving up high enough to get your franchise LT, or a late 1st. I would also want a 4th in either scenario.
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Instead let's trade Clowney to Miami for Tunsil and a 4th
 
steelbtexan

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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JB said:
Instead let's trade Clowney to Miami for Tunsil and a 4th
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With Clowney's contract/knee, Tunsil is more valuable.

Plus Mia wants draft picks to start their rebuild. It's the only reason Tunsil might be available.
 
JB

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
steelbtexan said:
With Clowney's contract/knee, Tunsil is more valuable.

Plus Mia wants draft picks to start their rebuild. It's the only reason Tunsil might be available.
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Tunsil is more valuable in your opinion. I don't think most NFL teams would agree with you not have listened to Doc Jean

They also want a dominant complement to Campbell. They want value, Clowney could give them that in spades
 
cuppacoffee

cuppacoffee

Resident Grouch
steelbtexan

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
JB said:
Tunsil is more valuable in your opinion. I don't think most NFL teams would agree with you not have listened to Doc Jean

They also want a dominant complement to Campbell. They want value, Clowney could give them that in spades
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Tunsil plays for Mia.

I assume by Campbell you're talking about Jacksonville?
 
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Uncle Rico

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
As awesome as it is to have a PHD here who contributes to the board I think Doc himself would say he isnt batting 1.000 on some of his medical opinions here. If that is seriously the only reason that you visit these forums, then why not just get his email or hit him up in a private message instead of delivering a cringe inducing Jerry McGuire manifesto moment?

Fact is this team has been painted incompetent for many years, now they are not only that, but cheap to boot and true die hards who arent wearing the damn blinders and chugging the Kool Aid have a right to be upset. You have a great defensive nucleus in place, finally a stud franchise QB and then you have a TON of cap space and somehow your defense gets worse and the issues on offense are now going to have to be shored up by rookies? SMH.
 
steelbtexan

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Uncle Rico said:
As awesome as it is to have a PHD here who contributes to the board I think Doc himself would say he isnt batting 1.000 on some of his medical opinions here. If that is seriously the only reason that you visit these forums, then why not just get his email or hit him up in a private message instead of delivering a cringe inducing Jerry McGuire manifesto moment?

Fact is this team has been painted incompetent for many years, now they are not only that, but cheap to boot and true die hards who arent wearing the damn blinders and chugging the Kool Aid have a right to be upset. You have a great defensive nucleus in place, finally a stud franchise QB and then you have a TON of cap space and somehow your defense gets worse and the issues on offense are now going to have to be shored up by rookies? SMH.
Click to expand...
Exactly,

And Doc is only right about 90% of the time.

I'm sure that if he had the resources the Texans org has he could improve that number.
 
JB

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
Uncle Rico said:
As awesome as it is to have a PHD here who contributes to the board I think Doc himself would say he isnt batting 1.000 on some of his medical opinions here. If that is seriously the only reason that you visit these forums, then why not just get his email or hit him up in a private message instead of delivering a cringe inducing Jerry McGuire manifesto moment?

Fact is this team has been painted incompetent for many years, now they are not only that, but cheap to boot and true die hards who arent wearing the damn blinders and chugging the Kool Aid have a right to be upset. You have a great defensive nucleus in place, finally a stud franchise QB and then you have a TON of cap space and somehow your defense gets worse and the issues on offense are now going to have to be shored up by rookies? SMH.
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The eye is in the beholder . Stop stating that your opinion is fact. Texans have sucked since 2002, but let's keep opinions where they belong
 
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BattleBull

BattleBull

Practice Squad
cuppacoffee said:
For those complaining about the Texans lack of activity. Doing something just for the fact of doing something is well...kinda dumb. IMHO

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001023169/article/2019-nfl-free-agencys-worst-contracts-broncos-raise-eyebrows?icampaign=trendingNews

Really eye opening are the comments on the Broncos and Bills signings. Hell...most of it is eye opening, look at Atlanta....unless one chooses to close their eyes.

:coffee:
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That's a good article.

The issue with FA is role players get paid like All-Pros and I'm happy that we don't take part in that(for the most part.)
 
House of Pain

House of Pain

Wild Speculator
Uncle Rico said:
As awesome as it is to have a PHD here who contributes to the board I think Doc himself would say he isnt batting 1.000 on some of his medical opinions here. If that is seriously the only reason that you visit these forums, then why not just get his email or hit him up in a private message instead of delivering a cringe inducing Jerry McGuire manifesto moment?
Click to expand...
I guess expecting someone to be able to read is asking too much. Cloak is ONE OF THE ONLY REASONS to come to this board. Thanks for twisting my words. You should work for a news outlet. Also, FWIW he's been 100% on people that have had lisfranc fractures. I love the good Doctor. No need to creep him out with unsolicited PMs or emails. I'll just read his posts, thank you for your input.

Jerry McGuire? Strange projection. I didn't know that I wasn't allowed to compliment another board member. Especially one that clearly uses a lot of his personal time to provide quality information. If you were curious, you are squarely in the "serial bed wetters" group of people on this board.

Uncle Rico said:
Fact is this team has been painted incompetent for many years, now they are not only that, but cheap to boot and true die hards who arent wearing the damn blinders and chugging the Kool Aid have a right to be upset. You have a great defensive nucleus in place, finally a stud franchise QB and then you have a TON of cap space and somehow your defense gets worse and the issues on offense are now going to have to be shored up by rookies? SMH.
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If they are incompetent, aren't they just going to screw that up too? I just don't see this logic. Spending on FAs for the sake of spending is one of the biggest mistakes you can make with a franchise. See @cuppacoffee 's article above. You probably are the same type of fan that would complain in 2020 or 2021 when the Texans are in cap hell and can't sign the guys we've drafted because we overpayed for free agents in previous years.

Once again, I'm not saying that people shouldn't be critical of the Texans. They definitely should. The media/fanbase is too easy on this team and this is part of the reason we have a mediocre team. But I don't see on giving the "incompetent" Texans staff a blank check to sign (and overpay) for free agents is going to make the team better. Outside of the year we got JJo and Manning, I can't think of a year that we really did well in free agency.
 
T

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
They just need to do a better job.

OBrien is awful at evaluating talent. Crennel is pretty good
 
Mangler

Mangler

Toro de España
steelbtexan said:
With Clowney's contract/knee, Tunsil is more valuable.

Plus Mia wants draft picks to start their rebuild. It's the only reason Tunsil might be available.
Click to expand...
So Devlin can make him regress and have him looking like Suafilo 2.0? Thanks. But, no thanks! I’d rather keep the guy who is being coached up by a competent coach rather than bringing in a good guy to get coached, errr coached DOWN by an incompetent wannabe! I wouldnt trust Devlin even if we swapped offensive lines with the Colts! He’d probably eff that all the way up...
 
steelbtexan

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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Mangler said:
So Devlin can make him regress and have him looking like Suafilo 2.0? Thanks. But, no thanks! I’d rather keep the guy who is being coached up by a competent coach rather than bringing in a good guy to get coached, errr coached DOWN by an incompetent wannabe! I wouldnt trust Devlin even if we swapped offensive lines with the Colts! He’d probably eff that all the way up...
Click to expand...
So you're against adding a guy who is currently starting and can be a starting OT for 10 yrs (Tunsil and the cost is a guy who's about to be really expensive (Clowney) with questionable knees, plus you get draft picks that are badly needed.

You dont want to do this because you dont like Devlin (I dont like him either) so you're against doing what would be best for the team.
 
I

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
cuppacoffee said:
For those complaining about the Texans lack of activity. Doing something just for the fact of doing something is well...kinda dumb. IMHO

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001023169/article/2019-nfl-free-agencys-worst-contracts-broncos-raise-eyebrows?icampaign=trendingNews

Really eye opening are the comments on the Broncos and Bills signings. Hell...most of it is eye opening, look at Atlanta....unless one chooses to close their eyes.

:coffee:
Click to expand...
I'm happy for Kareem and his agent for getting over on Elway and this story also makes our GM look real savvy for keeping his powder dry.
 
DocBar

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
steelbtexan said:
I'm a big believer in CnD, he does a better predicting injury outcomes than the Texans medical staff does without the resources they have. He warned us about Schaub/Cushing/DDW etc... and was spot on. Watt too,

He's currently warning us about Clowney and doesn't want Penn. I'm on board with moving Clowney.

I disagree with him about signing Penn. I would sign Penn on a 1 yr deal and hope he could play parts 4-5 games before getting hurt and showing the young rookie OT I drafted the ropes so the rookie will have some experience under his belt before having to take over full time. If you get extremely lucky then Penn plays well and stays healthy all season and the rookie gets his NFL feet wet in the NFL at RT.

I'm just thankful for CnD teaching me a different way to watch football. It's been a real eye opener for me.
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I get where you’re coming from re Penn, but how do you know that he would be interested in mentoring his replacement or that he would be a good addition to the OL room? I think that if you were honest with yourself, you want the Texans to do something for the sake of doing something. Penn isn’t an answer to anything for the Texans.
 
steelbtexan

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
DocBar said:
I get where you’re coming from re Penn, but how do you know that he would be interested in mentoring his replacement or that he would be a good addition to the OL room? I think that if you were honest with yourself, you want the Texans to do something for the sake of doing something. Penn isn’t an answer to anything for the Texans.
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How do you know he wouldn't be? He's looking for a starting job and at this point of his career this is his path to a starting job. If he plays well next yr he keeps the starting job. If he doesn't or (More likely) gets hurt then you have a rookie to step in. This isn't a case of doing something just to do something. This is a case of doing whatever it takes to make sure Davenport isn't protecting Watson's blindside ever again.
 
T

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
steelbtexan said:
How do you know he wouldn't be? He's looking for a starting job and at this point of his career this is his path to a starting job. If he plays well next yr he keeps the starting job. If he doesn't or (More likely) gets hurt then you have a rookie to step in. This isn't a case of doing something just to do something. This is a case of doing whatever it takes to make sure Davenport isn't protecting Watson's blindside ever again.
Click to expand...
Teams don't sign guys for 6 games expecting them to get hurt.
 
DocBar

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
steelbtexan said:
How do you know he wouldn't be? He's looking for a starting job and at this point of his career this is his path to a starting job. If he plays well next yr he keeps the starting job. If he doesn't or (More likely) gets hurt then you have a rookie to step in. This isn't a case of doing something just to do something. This is a case of doing whatever it takes to make sure Davenport isn't protecting Watson's blindside ever again.
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I completely think it's a case of doing something for the sake of doing something. I'd prefer Jordan Mills, OT from Buffalo if I'm going to do that. I don't see Gaine signing Penn. Why would you sign an injury-prone "stopgap"? Just to pay him to hang out with the trainers?
 
E

Earl34

Hall of Fame
DocBar said:
I completely think it's a case of doing something for the sake of doing something. I'd prefer Jordan Mills, OT from Buffalo if I'm going to do that. I don't see Gaine signing Penn. Why would you sign an injury-prone "stopgap"? Just to pay him to hang out with the trainers?
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While Penn is a LT, Mills is strictly a RT and it appears the geniuses on Kirby are banking on Seantrel Henderson recovering from his ankle injury and taking the RT spot without any competition.
 
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