Beastlyman2003
Waterboy
But, we have seen what domanick can do and we have seen that ability from tony
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Hollings to Fins?
- Thread starter cuppacoffee
- Start date
Panther5407
Rookie
If I remember right Hollings averaged really high when he played for Georga Tech. I think it was somewhere between 5-6 yards. And thats not bad for anybody.
Beastlyman2003
Waterboy
once again, that was in college(not the pros), and before he torn his knee up.
Panther5407
Rookie
But it shows his potential.
Beastlyman2003
Waterboy
Where you at Fiddy? Is this case closed?
Fiddy
All Pro
I am going to guess you meant havent.Beastlyman2003 said:
We are grading Hollings on potential and think he will take the job in by the start of next year because of he has more potential then DD. Vinny makes a great comparisions when he compares DD to Duce Staley and Hollings to Bennett. Staley can get the job done, but Bennett gives the threat that he can take it to the house anytime he touches the ball. Hollings offers more for the offense. He spreads them out more because of his speed, he provides a homerun threat that all great offenses have. DD doesnt provide that threat....
Since I'm pretty sure most people here realize that Hollings isn't going to Miami and this thread has morphed into something altogether different, I thought I'd share my thoughts about Hollings & Davis.
The things that jumped out at me watching Tony Hollings at training camp last year were 1) he has special speed, and 2) he was small for a NFL RB. I've taken a lot of flak from infantrycak & others on Tony's size (and please don't list the weights of all the NFL RBs again), but hey that was my perception. I think it was backed up by his performance has Hollings seemingly was knocked around by defenders like a pinball hitting bumpers. Tony's propensity in dropping the ball after a big hit was another indicator of his lack of strength.
But, there was never any question about Hollings' speed, as he showed the ability to turn the corner both in the preseason and the Chief game. Now, Tony is coming off his 1st NFL off season training program. I feel that the time between a player's 1st & 2nd year is where he will make the biggest jump in physical development. I'm expecting a bigger, stronger Hollings this year with the same type of speed that can put fear into an opposing defense. If so, Tony can be a real weapon for the Texans this year.
I saw Domanick Davis in the 1st Texan night practice last year and my impression was probably the same as what the Texans thought they were getting. Quick to the hole, good hands out of the backfield, caught punts with his hands not his body. Davis was also on the small side, but about the size you'd expect in a 3rd down back/return man. Then Domanick injured his hand, and I completely forgot about him. I was actually a little surprised the Texans didn't put him on IR at the beginning of the season and only go with 3 RBs. I'm glad they didn't.
I guess DD caught my attention 1st in the "Leap of Faith" drive, were he almost single handedly drove the Texans into position for the winning TD. Then he looked good again in the Titan road game, then the Jet game, then the Colt game, then the...until I realized, "Hey, we've got something pretty good here in this Davis guy". Domanick's success kind of sneaks up on you, because he's not special in any obvious way. His moves, his ability to slip tackles, his vision, how he uses his blockers, everything about him is subtle. I mean his college coach considered moving Davis to defense at one point at LSU, even Saban didn't know what he had. But DD has something, look at his stats compared to the other Texan RBs last season.
Davis - 238 rushes, 1031 yards, 4.3 ypc
Other Texan RB's - 136 rushes, 369 yards, 2.7 ypc
I'm sorry, but a 4.3 ypc behind a decent, not great, o-line means something. A difference of 1.6 yards per carry between DD & the other backs means something. Looking at Davis and saying, "I don't see anything special", doesn't mean that the guy isn't special. Will Domanick become a HOF RB? It doesn't matter. What matters is if the combination of Davis & Hollings can help the Texans win games. I think they can.
The things that jumped out at me watching Tony Hollings at training camp last year were 1) he has special speed, and 2) he was small for a NFL RB. I've taken a lot of flak from infantrycak & others on Tony's size (and please don't list the weights of all the NFL RBs again), but hey that was my perception. I think it was backed up by his performance has Hollings seemingly was knocked around by defenders like a pinball hitting bumpers. Tony's propensity in dropping the ball after a big hit was another indicator of his lack of strength.
But, there was never any question about Hollings' speed, as he showed the ability to turn the corner both in the preseason and the Chief game. Now, Tony is coming off his 1st NFL off season training program. I feel that the time between a player's 1st & 2nd year is where he will make the biggest jump in physical development. I'm expecting a bigger, stronger Hollings this year with the same type of speed that can put fear into an opposing defense. If so, Tony can be a real weapon for the Texans this year.
I saw Domanick Davis in the 1st Texan night practice last year and my impression was probably the same as what the Texans thought they were getting. Quick to the hole, good hands out of the backfield, caught punts with his hands not his body. Davis was also on the small side, but about the size you'd expect in a 3rd down back/return man. Then Domanick injured his hand, and I completely forgot about him. I was actually a little surprised the Texans didn't put him on IR at the beginning of the season and only go with 3 RBs. I'm glad they didn't.
I guess DD caught my attention 1st in the "Leap of Faith" drive, were he almost single handedly drove the Texans into position for the winning TD. Then he looked good again in the Titan road game, then the Jet game, then the Colt game, then the...until I realized, "Hey, we've got something pretty good here in this Davis guy". Domanick's success kind of sneaks up on you, because he's not special in any obvious way. His moves, his ability to slip tackles, his vision, how he uses his blockers, everything about him is subtle. I mean his college coach considered moving Davis to defense at one point at LSU, even Saban didn't know what he had. But DD has something, look at his stats compared to the other Texan RBs last season.
Davis - 238 rushes, 1031 yards, 4.3 ypc
Other Texan RB's - 136 rushes, 369 yards, 2.7 ypc
I'm sorry, but a 4.3 ypc behind a decent, not great, o-line means something. A difference of 1.6 yards per carry between DD & the other backs means something. Looking at Davis and saying, "I don't see anything special", doesn't mean that the guy isn't special. Will Domanick become a HOF RB? It doesn't matter. What matters is if the combination of Davis & Hollings can help the Texans win games. I think they can.
Beastlyman2003
Waterboy
You just nade my point, Hollings already had durability problems as Bennett. Domanick has broken his hand but that doesnt unltimatley effect the way you run, cuz i have seen running backs with broken hands still playing. but not with broken foot(bennett) or torn acl. Domanick IS NOT SLOW, just not as fast as Tony. He could still take it to the house any time. And as for Tony. He cant break a tackle, and the only person who could take it to the house without being touched was Barry, and Tony is not Barry.
Wolf
100% Texan
Hollings didn't do much last season by design from the coaching staff. I recall seeing flashes of good things from Hollings.. If you count of the jags game where Hollings had 19 yards on 18 carries.. Horrible performance by our offense.. they just teed off on us. they knew Hollings would be starting and Ragone making his first start.. and down in Jacksonville.. Yeah I could make excuses but Del rio was licking his chops for this one.. Taylor ran for a buck sixty.. they came to play
Beastlyman2003
Waterboy
when Domanick broke about 4 tackles in one run(right after an injury) it didnt look to me like he was thinkin," Hmmm, I better just go down cus i dont wanna get hurt again." and if thats what Hollings is thinkin, then he doesnt need to be playin football period.
Beastlyman2003
Waterboy
well if youre tip-toeing through the holes worrying about not getting hit, then you are not a full-contact sport contender. if he loves football but doesnt wanna get hurt, he should sign up for a flag-football league. And you know as well as i do, Domanick DOES NOT tip-toe in those holes. He hits them like mike tyson did "The Hurricane"
Fiddy
All Pro
DD also hasnt torn an ACL. I really need to find some Hollings highlights for you because he went through the hole in college, there was no fear of getting injured. The carry he hurt himself on was to run out the clock. You are Superman until you get hurt. Edge was tenative his first year back from his ACL. You cant blame them for being a little tenative after they just had their career put in jeperody...Beastlyman2003 said:
Beastlyman2003
Waterboy
yes, but that keeps coming up. Domanick HAS NOT messed up anything in his legs. Tony is always gonna be hesitant to run up the middle just like Fred Taylor(this ones for __V__) . Since his hamstring injury, he has not been willing to drive for those extra yards after contact anymore. Hollings could never do it anyway( drag people or break tackles) so the injury isnt gonna make him better at it.
Beastlyman2003
Waterboy
I didnt compare Hollings to Taylor directly, i compared their INJURIES.(both having to do with their legs) And once again,Hollings maybe be faster than Domanick, but Domanick IS NOT SLOW, to any extent.
Beastlyman2003
Waterboy
AND Taylor was always able to break tackles, i was refering to when he was going down, saying he would just drop, instead of even trying to drive for EXTRA yards. i didnt say that Taylor never broke a tackle, because he did. thats how he got 1500yards. But Tony doesnt have the power to go with the outstanding speed, and CANNOT break a tackle.
Beastlyman2003
Waterboy
yes, but ALL OF THOSE BACKS HAVE ENOUGH STRENGTH TO BREAK TACKLES.
Wolf
100% Texan
how do YOU know he can't break tackles? you seen him after he gets his confidence back and gets used to the speed of the game? have you seen him in practice?
I am amazed that you are saying he can't do this or that when all you have seen of him is limited duty of last season
edit
where you there to see what kind of conditioning/strength program he was on last season and this offseason?
BTW I haven't seen any of it either but I do have faith that our front office knows what it takes to get a player healthy and NFL ready
Hollings came out as a junior..Yes he needs work still..
I am amazed that you are saying he can't do this or that when all you have seen of him is limited duty of last season
edit
where you there to see what kind of conditioning/strength program he was on last season and this offseason?
BTW I haven't seen any of it either but I do have faith that our front office knows what it takes to get a player healthy and NFL ready
Hollings came out as a junior..Yes he needs work still..
Beastlyman2003
Waterboy
definatly agreed. but nice argument and no hard feelings. and a good point about not having seen him, but ill tell ya how hes looking when i see him in practice. I got tix to 3 practices in early August. I really wanna see Babin, Robinson, & Lord.
Beastlyman2003
Waterboy
but yea ill give yall an UNBIASED report if you want.
Beastlyman2003
Waterboy
Thats what my dad says ALL the time.
Beastly Man,
You may end up being right about your prediction ... who knows, right?
But the flaw in your argument is that you're using actual performance alone as your measure of talent, instead of upside potential. An athletic, even if raw, specimen will always raise eyebrows in whatever league...from Hollings to Dwight Howard. Why?
Because it's better to have a specimen that has the full spectrum of qualities, both the unteachable and the teachable...than a lesser raw specimen with the teachable.
...assuming the coach is confident in his coaching abilities...
You may end up being right about your prediction ... who knows, right?
But the flaw in your argument is that you're using actual performance alone as your measure of talent, instead of upside potential. An athletic, even if raw, specimen will always raise eyebrows in whatever league...from Hollings to Dwight Howard. Why?
Because it's better to have a specimen that has the full spectrum of qualities, both the unteachable and the teachable...than a lesser raw specimen with the teachable.
...assuming the coach is confident in his coaching abilities...
LiveForTheGame
Waterboy
In my opinion it isn't essential to have the perfect physical qualities. They are important because of the physcial nature of the game, but it all comes down to heart, work ethic, and what we all want- making plays. So I don't care who they put out there as long as the guy can represent the Texans both on the field and off the field with dignity and will make the plays when it needs to be done.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Taking Hollings in the supplemental draft was a gamble & far from a sure bet. As are several of the later picks in this past draft. One that needs mentioning is Jammal Lord now here is a gifted talent that just needs a chance to shine and has the size to play multiple positions. I bet a cold beverage IF he gets a chance to play WR he will excell, along with AJ that would be a couple big strong receivers.
Why do I mention this
because both are gambles but given the right situation both can succeed. The problem is that there was such a glut of talent in the 2004 draft that blue chip starting capable players went deeply through the entire 2nd round. I'm sick and tired of hearing excusses that the Oakland pick was predicated as only a late second round pick, even so WORSE CASE a wonderful talent would have been available without the question marks of rehab or changing positions. Those should be reserved for later rounds.
I would rather have Greg Jones with the 55th pick than Hollings (33rd pick) anyway, as long as we're all dreaming in never never land
Why do I mention this
because both are gambles but given the right situation both can succeed. The problem is that there was such a glut of talent in the 2004 draft that blue chip starting capable players went deeply through the entire 2nd round. I'm sick and tired of hearing excusses that the Oakland pick was predicated as only a late second round pick, even so WORSE CASE a wonderful talent would have been available without the question marks of rehab or changing positions. Those should be reserved for later rounds.I would rather have Greg Jones with the 55th pick than Hollings (33rd pick) anyway, as long as we're all dreaming in never never land
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Beastlyman2003 said:
FYI--Domanick Davis underwent arthroscopic left knee surgery (torn meniscus) after 2000 spring drills, in 2001 he suffered a left knee medial collateral ligament sprain and a high ankle sprain. Seems he has messed up things in his leg and that people do recover from leg injuries to not run hesitant after a while.
Also, in terms of pro-scouts seeing potential in him, here is a quote from John McClain about him:
beerlover
Hall of Fame
1. This type of resoning to me is flawed- "That means general manager Charley Casserly surrendered the second-round pick he acquired from the Raiders, which should be a low No. 2 pick considering Oakland played in the last Super Bowl". Frankly I don't buy it, never have and never will.
2. Statements like this- "a player who's among the top-seven or top-10 prospects in the country, depending on which scouting combine you trust the most". Sounds like several stock recommendations I recieved 5 years ago, don't believe any of them. Heck I'd rather trade Hollings to the Finns for the rights to Ricky Williams, take my chances in a change of scenery & returning to Texas might ease his mind enough to return to football. That has more potential than traveling down the path were on in this thread.
2. Statements like this- "a player who's among the top-seven or top-10 prospects in the country, depending on which scouting combine you trust the most". Sounds like several stock recommendations I recieved 5 years ago, don't believe any of them. Heck I'd rather trade Hollings to the Finns for the rights to Ricky Williams, take my chances in a change of scenery & returning to Texas might ease his mind enough to return to football. That has more potential than traveling down the path were on in this thread.
BuffSoldier
Veteran
OK personally I think that there will be no way that Hollings takes the job from Davis unless Davis get injured, or plays horribly.
What has hollings showed yall that gives you a reason to believe that he will be an elite NFL RB. He has speed, wow, thats wonderful, what else does he have? Average vision, basically no quickness and cutback ability, no receiving talent, not good at picking up Blitzing LBs, what is it.
DD may not have the seed to break 70 yards, but he will give you positive yardage basically every play because he falls forward, stop on a dime agility, hands that at this point I say are more reliable than Corey Bradfords, great balance and the ability to bounce off defenders like a pinball, low center of gravity, nice blocking skills. Oh and 1031 yards after starting after the 6th game and being out for a couple. Had he been the starter in game one he probably would have had over 1300 yards. Yeah Hollings is going to challenge DD.
If the Fins give us a 1st rounder for Hollings id trade him in a new york second, firstly because their O revolved around Ricky Williams so they will probably win like 5-6 games this year. A top 10 pick would be extraordinary.
What has hollings showed yall that gives you a reason to believe that he will be an elite NFL RB. He has speed, wow, thats wonderful, what else does he have? Average vision, basically no quickness and cutback ability, no receiving talent, not good at picking up Blitzing LBs, what is it.
DD may not have the seed to break 70 yards, but he will give you positive yardage basically every play because he falls forward, stop on a dime agility, hands that at this point I say are more reliable than Corey Bradfords, great balance and the ability to bounce off defenders like a pinball, low center of gravity, nice blocking skills. Oh and 1031 yards after starting after the 6th game and being out for a couple. Had he been the starter in game one he probably would have had over 1300 yards. Yeah Hollings is going to challenge DD.
If the Fins give us a 1st rounder for Hollings id trade him in a new york second, firstly because their O revolved around Ricky Williams so they will probably win like 5-6 games this year. A top 10 pick would be extraordinary.
i honestly doubt hollings will be traded to the fins...who would we have for back up...wells? please no way casserly would go into a season with our main back up being wells...hollings isn't going anywhere for the time being...although i have to agree with buffsoldier on this one...if they offer their 1st rounder for him...i'd take it...next years draft should be a good one and without ricky we could be in line for derrick johnson or some other high profile rookie...maybe jammal brown the OT from OU
S
SESupergenius
Guest
potential is all we are riding on at this point. The guys hasn't made it through a season as a running back and only played 4 games before getting injured. If he switched from DB to HB because of injuries, I just don't get that. The oxymoron is that even though he's dodging DB injuries, now he has to cope with RB ones. It was just way too high of a pick for this type of player. Was it really that hard to imagine Oakland's slide considering how old the talent was? If we didn't gamble on him we could have got Tatum Bell, Greg Jones, or Julius Jones. Not a bad group at all in addition to the slew of other talented players at other postions to chose from. We just might have missed on that one.
TheOgre
All Pro
It is one thing to think the Raiders might slide a bit. It seems like a huge stretch though to think the pick would slide 30 slots.
1. Everyone one of the "with the 33rd pick in the draft we could have gotten [insert player]" are just irritating. A REASONABLE expectation would have had the Raiders around 8-8. Now if you ask who we could have gotten around the 50th pick, I could buy that. Talking about the 33rd pick in the draft is assuming we could see the future. If I had that I would have won the lottery a few times by now.
2. At this point DD has shown he can get 1000 yards in a season. He has shown some good things, but he doesn't look like a 1st tier RB to me. That is my opinion.
3. Scouts around the NFL were big on Hollings for a good reason. He has the tools to be a big time back. The reason more teams didn't step up to the plate (in the supplemental draft) is the same reason that McGahee fell in the draft, he is a risk due to the injury. Hollings fell some more because of his limited college experience. But let me reiterate, scouts like this guy. He has the "p" word. While he may never live up to it, he has higher potential than DD IMO. Is he a roll of the dice? Sure.
1. Everyone one of the "with the 33rd pick in the draft we could have gotten [insert player]" are just irritating. A REASONABLE expectation would have had the Raiders around 8-8. Now if you ask who we could have gotten around the 50th pick, I could buy that. Talking about the 33rd pick in the draft is assuming we could see the future. If I had that I would have won the lottery a few times by now.
2. At this point DD has shown he can get 1000 yards in a season. He has shown some good things, but he doesn't look like a 1st tier RB to me. That is my opinion.
3. Scouts around the NFL were big on Hollings for a good reason. He has the tools to be a big time back. The reason more teams didn't step up to the plate (in the supplemental draft) is the same reason that McGahee fell in the draft, he is a risk due to the injury. Hollings fell some more because of his limited college experience. But let me reiterate, scouts like this guy. He has the "p" word. While he may never live up to it, he has higher potential than DD IMO. Is he a roll of the dice? Sure.
S
SESupergenius
Guest
You are right, I wouldn't have guessed that high in the draft. At the time however there were many grumblings on these boards that said we might end up with a better pick than last in the round. I would have thought the Raiders would finish in the 9-7 10-6 range, but still would have kept it due to fact that he was damaged goods for that high of pick with minimal experience. Just my opinion. O didn't expect DD to do anything last year but be a 3rd down out of the backfield reciever. I felt that Mack and a backup were was sufficient, and we still had Wells. I wouldn't put MCGahee and Hollings in the same class when you compare stats and ability. McGahee I would have taken a chance on if he were in the same situation as Hollings. Hollings just didn't prove enough by only playing 4 games against weaker opponents.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Ses, they mean the starting RB's were injured so Hollings asked to be tried out at RB to replace them, not that he had injuries as a DB and so moved to RB.
S
SESupergenius
Guest
Thanks Infantry, I stand corrected.
I know its been a while since last season.. but EVERYONE was agreeing last season that DD was awesome but just didnt have the size to muscle his way into the endzone. Thats not a terrible thing.. alot of backs dont have that .. and yah you can blame it on blocking if ya want.. but the fact of the matter is that if you had had Mack in there when it was 2 yards to the goal.. he probably could have muscled his way in unless blocking just totally collapsed.
And the Patriots game. We had it on the goal line.. either in the 4th quarter or in overtime.. and DD couldnt get it in on 3 attempts.
i absolutely love DD.. he is my favorite player on the team.. im NOT knocking him. I just really think that a big back backing him up would be prefferable to a small speedy one.
And the Patriots game. We had it on the goal line.. either in the 4th quarter or in overtime.. and DD couldnt get it in on 3 attempts.
i absolutely love DD.. he is my favorite player on the team.. im NOT knocking him. I just really think that a big back backing him up would be prefferable to a small speedy one.
LoNghoRn-TeXaN
Waterboy
Tony Hollings is perfect in backing up DD. I hope the Texans use Jarrod Baxter coming up this season in goalline situations because it could get very rough and the potential of being injured increases significantly. I just don't want either DD or TH getting injured. We need them to make a serious playoff push!!! 
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Grid said:
Hazarding a guess here, but I doubt there has ever been a subject that EVERYONE here agreed on. Anyway, given that the two RB's with the highest season totals for TD's ever Emmitt Smith 5'10" 209 lbs and Priest Holmes 5' 9" 213 lbs (heights and weights included for Lucky) are basically the same size as DD, I would say the line work and for lack of a better description a nose for the end zone count more. Compare them to Fred Taylor who even though 232 lbs has had some difficulty at the goal line and thus the Jags had first Mack and now Greg Jones to punch the ball in.