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Hollings to Fins?

Beastlyman2003 said:
Oh im sure AJ was blocking downfield, but there is no way that he was blocking his man 56 yards down field.
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The way I remember the play: AJ was moved in motion across the formation, i think, to the left from the right to help the TE's block down on the D-line, LBs, and the other saftey coming down into the box. It was 3rd and 1. Davis got by one guy and took off down field, but not before AJ took off and was chasing the saftey, that hadnt come down to blitz, to block him for DD. The saftey was taking an angle up the field because AJ was there and he knew he couldnt get DD with AJ in the way so he saw DD taking an angle towards the sideline and ran upfield to cut DD so he would have to go back to the middle of the field but AJ was too fast, caught up with him and was blocking him 40 yards down the field. DD couldnt get by AJ in time and the CB caught him from behind....
 
Dude, thats a what i call a photographic memory! but anyways, dude, you may be right but im just trying to tell yall, we have not seen anything from Hollings to say that he will take Domanicks job.
 
Beastlyman2003 said:
Dude, thats a what i call a photographic memory! but anyways, dude, you may be right but im just trying to tell yall, we have not seen anything from Hollings to say that he will take Domanicks job.
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I am saying all of this on potential. Yeah, we do have to see what Hollings can do but the Texans had to have seen something to give up a 2nd round pick to get him. Hollings has all the qualities, prototypical size, great speed and great acceleration, now we just have to see if he can bring everything together. I cant wait for camp!!!!
 
Fiddy said:
The way I remember the play: AJ was moved in motion across the formation, i think, to the left from the right to help the TE's block down on the D-line, ..
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must have been one of the 6 times we actually used motion year last year.
 
What's funny about all of this is that DD has the ES intangibles. He's not suppose to be able to get it done, but he does. Did ES dominate every game he played, NO. Will DD dominate every game he plays, NO.

BUT IT IS A STATED FACT THAT THE COACHING STAFF HAS CHANGED THE BLOCKING SCHEME TO BETTER TAKE ADVANTAGE OF DD's SKILL TO QUICKLY SEE HOLES WHERE EVER THEY ARE FOR A QUICK BURST THROUGH AND GET HIM IN THE SECONDARY WHERE HE RUNS OVER PEOPLE. IT SEEMS TO BE THEY HAVE VOTED AND RIGHT NOW DD IS THE WINNER.
 
Beastlyman2003 said:
Fred Taylor DO NOT have elite speed.
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Are we talking about the same Fred Taylor? Fred Taylor is a speed RB with great size. He has the ability to take any given play to the house. Taylor can cut on a dime, is a dynamic presence between the tackles. One of his most dynamic traits is is speed and explosion. You lose crediblity points on that one.
 
What Do You Mean I Lost Credability Points? Me And Fiddy Were In Agreement. And His Hamstring Has A History Of Naggin Injuries, And Has Decreased The Speed And Explosion That He Might Have Had At Florida, But No More.
 
Well have a pat on the back fest if y'all like, but that isn't exactly what happened. 1st Joe Pendry was brought in to coach the interior linemen. He and the other O-line coaches decided with Capers that zone blocking would get the potential from the athletic linemen on the roster and hopefully allow them not only to open holes but make blocks at the second level. When the original announcement was made that was the main selling point along with the comparison to Denver and their ability to get a whole bunch of RB's to produce. It was then noted that DD's patience, decisiveness and burst to the hole would play along well in that system. Hollings' acceleration should also play well in the system.
 
I doubt that the fins would trade for hollings due to the fact that travis minor is almost the same as him except for the killer speed that hollings has. But then again they traded a 2nd rounder for feeley. and they would have to change their offense around because williams was a masher between the tackles, so most likely they will sign mack or the lions old rb stewart.
 
I think Taylor has lost a little speed because of the hamstring injuries, but I only saw him 2 times last year so I may not be the best person to pass a judgement on him....
 
Fiddy said:
I think Taylor has lost a little speed because of the hamstring injuries, but I only saw him 2 times last year so I may not be the best person to pass a judgement on him....
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He sure looked plenty fast on that 62-yard run against us.
 
Well, i had a nice conversation(while keeping my mind off work) i gotta go home(where i do not own a cpu). So i want yall to know im not conceding my argument, just gotta go home. Later!
 
Beastlyman2003 said:
Top 5 Running Backs
1. LaDanian Tomlinson
2. Jamal Lewis
3. Priest Holmes
4. Shawn Alexander
5. Fred Taylor(when healthy)

Jamal Lewis, Shawn Alexander, & Fred Taylor DO NOT have elite speed.
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Jamal Lewis doesnt have elite speed? He's probably the fastest RB of those guys you listed.
 
Duce Staley was pretty darn good before he injured his foot 4 years ago. He's lost explosiveness since then.

Frankly, who cares if a RB can break run 80 yards or not... That's not why you run the ball... Dominick Davis has Emmitt Smith speed, strength, and probably quickness- referring to when Emmitt was young. Now, he may not have the vision or some of the intangibles, but I certainly haven't seen anything in him to say his potential is limited.

That being said, Hollings could be a special player, and I'd hate to give him up, especially if the organization believes in him. We certainly don't need Ogunleye and we frankly don't need more draft picks. It's time for these guys to learn to win on the field together. While this team may be a year away from competing at a consistantly elite level, the talent is now in place. Now let's get them out there and see what they can do for a couple of years.
 
Why would Miami trade one of the best DE's in the NFL for a RB that hasn't proven anyting ? That would make absolutely no sense. The texans would have to offer more than just Hollings in a potential trade, and I don't think the Texans need another OLB that bad. That's why we traded our 2nd and 3rd picks to draft Babin remember ?
 
infantrycak said:
... Joe Pendry was brought in to coach the interior linemen. He and the other O-line coaches decided with Capers that zone blocking would get the potential from the athletic linemen on the roster and hopefully allow them not only to open holes but make blocks at the second level. When the original announcement was made that was the main selling point along with the comparison to Denver and their ability to get a whole bunch of RB's to produce. It was then noted that DD's patience, decisiveness and burst to the hole would play along well in that system. Hollings' acceleration should also play well in the system.
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Good explanation, but I would add a point. While we most often mention Denver, I believe the Ravens also employ a zone blocking O-line (generally), with tremendous success. Also, on defense I believe the number of teams playing 3-4 has increased, with more teams saying they will imploy the 3-4 some of the time (the Raiders and C'boys, I believe). With a variable front (4-3 shifting to 3-4), it might be easier for O-linemen to pick up their assignments.

I hope someone with more understanding of O-line play than me will comment on the point that the fluid assignments of a zone blocking scheme help when faced with a shifting defensive front.
 
So what if he only gained just over 1,000 yards. You need to take into consideration that he started late in the season...well not late but only played 10 games. With those ten games, that's averaging 100 yards per game and had he played all 16 he probably would have made 1400-1600 yards....if 1600 isn't among the elite...I don't know what is. Sure he didn't make that amount but his average shows that he might have.

Dominic has earned my respect and he's used to being the under dog...that just makes him work harder (from interviews I've seen or read). Either way...I'm glad we have this to debate about......two solid runners. :headbang:
 
SBTexans08 said:
With those ten games, that's averaging 100 yards per game and had he played all 16 he probably would have made 1400-1600 yards....if 1600 isn't among the elite...I don't know what is. Sure he didn't make that amount but his average shows that he might have.
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DD averaged 84 yards per start, and that would be around 1300 yards over a 16 game season....
 
Those of you that are Oilers fans. Remember how Gary Brown had just over 1000 yards with only 8 starts in 1993? He had an awesome 5.1 YPC average that season. The rest of his career, he only had one season where he averaged more than 4.0 YPC (4.3 in 1998).

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/BrowGa00.htm

My point is to be realistic about DD. He could be a star, but one season doesn't make him so. Gary Brown is a perfect example of that.


*edit* Corrected an erroneous statement
 
Ogre or someone else with good Oilers knowledge--was that more his fault or did the line or something else fail in the subsequent seasons?

And by the way--your link says he averaged 4.3 ypc and got over 1000 yards in 1998.
 
Gary Brown had two 1000 yard seasons. One in Houston and one in NY. Brown had excellent O-lines here featuring Brad Hopkins, Kevin Donnalley, Irv Eatman, and Hall-of-Famer Bruce Matthews. The line was not the problem with Brown. Davis and Brown is probably an outstanding comparison.
 
I don't think anyone here is knocking DD, but there is definately an attempt to keep his accomplishments in perspective. He did a tremendous job in carrying the load last year, and Hollings will only help alleviate that load this year. Is Hollings or Davis worthy of such high praise early on? No, but being its a Texans message board a bit of 'homerism' clouds all of our perspectives. People are no doubt excited by Hollings potential when watching him perform in college, and people are no doubt excited given Davis performance last season. Let's not be hasty and annoint either of them as a "Elite" running back yet. The preseason will be a good determining factor for Hollings, and if he performs well then the regular season as well. When you have two viable options at any position its natural for their to be competition over who deserves the top spot. All in all I think "Nice problem to have" is the quote that best sums it up.


PS By 'homerism' I didn't mean this.
wp_homer_bkg.jpg
 
__V__ said:
Davis and Brown is probably an outstanding comparison.
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that was my thinking when i had previously stated that Beastly probably thought that Brown was elite too. Brown had 1,002 yards in just 8 starts. Very close to DD's stats. Lets just hope that DD ends up being the better of the two.
As far as the DD vs TH debate, Ive been saying that TH will eventually be our starter since last years preseason. Last year he was just getting over a serious knee injury. With all this time to fully heal up, Im really thinking of this as his rookie season. He will be making a push for the starter job this time next year. And as long as DD continues to do well, its probably his job to lose. Dont get me wrong, I like DD a lot, he has a very similar build to Emmitt. Whether he can consistently break tackles like 22 could and remain healthy remains to be seen. I just think that Hollings has far more potential.
 
Trading Hollings will not be the smart thing to do. Do you really want J. Wells to be the backup? Great pic of Homer, texasguy.
 
Ogre or someone else with good Oilers knowledge--was that more his fault or did the line or something else fail in the subsequent seasons?
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Gary Brown had his good year when Lo got hurt in that bizarre '93 season. They broke up the team in '94. Brown benefitted greatly from the R&S system. The Oilers led the league in pass attempts for something like 4 straight seasons and defenses never played to stop the Oilers running game because they were too worried about Hill, Givins, Duncan, and Slaughter. Moon was throwing more than 600 times per season back then. Lo had over a grand one season too and he and Pinkett combined for over a grand a couple other years. They may have somewhat similar styles but I don't think these Gary Brown and DD comparisons are all that relevant because the systems they were in are about as 180 out as you can get. Plus, Gary Brown was a 230 lb. RB who could take and dish a helluva lot more pounding than DD.

I hope all this Hollings optimism comes to fruition. A few good games against the likes of Vandy and Kentucky or whoever it was, and a year of spot play and rehab here doesn't give me a whole lot of data points. What I saw last year was a guy with little vision, drive, or cutback ability... unable to function between the tackles (yes, because of the knee). He did show great speed around the corner a few times on the toss-sweeps, but as I've said many times before he gets a rain check for last season because of the rehab. This year we will see whether he's going to be a legit NFL back or not. I hope he does emerge as a serious threat to take DD's job because if that happens, it's nothing but good for the Texans.
 
I dunno.. im pretty high on Hollings too.. but also, I think Davis is the man and can probably hold that starting spot for many seasons to come.

Hollings is definatly an enticing possibility for us, but do we need a "change of pace" back that is hardly a change of pace? Id rather see us get another quality player, and a draft pick.. and get us a nice BIG north and south runner in next years draft.. someone who could help out davis in goal line situations, and be an actual change of pace.

on the other hand, getting rid of hollings leaves us with who as a backup? Wells? Davis was injured in like 3 games last season.. so I think its safe to say that he is gonna need someone who can spell him at times.. and I dont think wells is it.
 
Id rather see us get another quality player, and a draft pick.. and get us a nice BIG north and south runner in next years draft.. someone who could help out davis in goal line situations, and be an actual change of pace.
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Can you point to a specific set of downs that Davis had a problem at the goal line last year--particularly where it was his fault rather than a blocking break down?

FYI--the two highest RB's for TD's in a season are Holmes--5' 9" 213lbs and Smith 5' 10" 209lbs--seems like talent (and good blocking) rather than size is the key to TD's.
 
Panther5407 said:
I'd keep Hollings. Trading him will only help out another AFC team. and you dont wanna do that.
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There are hundreds of reasons to keep Hollings, but that is not one. You cant worry about trading within the conference because the only time you make a deal is when you are sure that you are getting the better end of the deal. With your thinking we would not have Jason Babin or Tony Hollings because we had to make a deal with Oakland to get the pick we used for Hollings...
 
Wow, I can't believe the position many of you have taken on Dominick Davis. Comparing him to Gary Brown? The same Gary Brown who played behind a stellar offensive line in mid-season stride?!? The same Gary Brown who never met a donut he never liked?

C'mon, and be for real.

As far as Hollings, I personally never saw him run in college, and frankly it doesn't matter, I saw him last year and he never looked like much to me. I bet you could line up Jamal Lord, pitch him the ball, and he could run around the corner and be as effective or better than Hollings did last year (I know he is coming back from injury). Potential smopential. Time will tell, and I hope I am wrong. The coachs and management are obviously going to give Hollings the benefit of the doubt because they gave up a high second rounder for him but I really don't think he will be traded to Miami before the season.

Anyway, my point is, DD, for a fourth rounder drafted to be a kick return specialist (are those guys usually slow?) inserted mid-season as the starting running back for the Texans and averaging approximately 100 yards should EARN you some respect before people start tearing you down. The guy was a rookie without the benefit of training camp experince and DD was tearing up some good competition. The guy always seemed to be running hard and over people with great vision between the tackles.

Everyone can talk fantasy about what could happen, I could start listing Biakabutuka's, and KiJana Carters, and many others in regards to unseen potential.

Dominick has shown to be productive, a quick study, exhibits a great work ethic, a hard nose runner, keeps his legs pumping, great vision, quick feet, and perhaps he is not the fastest in the 100 yard dash but 4 rushes of 25 yards will still get the Texans in the end zone.

Mark my words that DD, with the benefit of last years experience along with a full training camp this year, combined with the physical improvements of a NFL offseason, will make DD, and the Texans offense a force in the league.

Lastly, don't forget Dominick is also a great receiver out of the backfield!! And don't even give me the Carr used him as a crutch and stunted his potential.

So keep Gary Brown out of the discussion and in the donut shops and recognize the contribution that DD has made to the Texans (for me as a fan, the excitement of a rushing touchdown and a few W's in the win loss. I sincerely hope Tony Hollings errupts into a great back also, but for now, the man who has proven a winner in my book is Dominck Davis.

GO DD!
 
I think most people are comparing production and the similar yards pumped out when Brown got his first taste of starting, not builds or anything else. Players are what they are despite what we want them to be. This has been a good discussion and there have been lots of nice personal insights in this thread. Its a good thing.
 
Texansbacker said:
...C'mon, and be for real...

....Anyway, my point is, DD, for a fourth rounder drafted to be a kick return specialist (are those guys usually slow?) inserted mid-season as the starting running back for the Texans and averaging approximately 100 yards should EARN you some respect before people start tearing you down. The guy was a rookie without the benefit of training camp experince and DD was tearing up some good competition. The guy always seemed to be running hard and over people with great vision between the tackles....

....Dominick has shown to be productive, a quick study, exhibits a great work ethic, a hard nose runner, keeps his legs pumping, great vision, quick feet, and perhaps he is not the fastest in the 100 yard dash but 4 rushes of 25 yards will still get the Texans in the end zone....
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We are being for real. Olandis Gary had about the same stats in about the same number of games.

Kick returners arent 'burners,' that just have great vision. And did anybody read when I posted that DD didnt average 100 yards per game!!!!!!! He averaged 84 yards per start and 74 yards per game!!!!!! And when DD has 4 rushes and each get around 25 yards, PM me and I will post an apology for DD.
 
It has been a good debate that I have read.. First off I like DD.. I like that he runs hard and seems to fall forward when he gets tackled.. now for people to say elite.. no.. and I am not going to say Hollings is going to be elite either. Both backs bring something unique to the table

To play Devil's advocate here and add to the debate....
Is DD that good or is it that he is the best we have seen in a Texan's uniform so our expectations of him unrealistic?
kinda like what Billy Miller was to us in our 1st season.. (BTW I like Billy too)

I mention this,because DD ,eventhough winning the rookie of the year, was way behind in the probowl race (it is narrowed given williams retired and portis is in the NFC now)
 
Wolf said:
I mention this,because DD ,eventhough winning the rookie of the year, was way behind in the probowl race (it is narrowed given williams retired and portis is in the NFC now)
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He still will have a hard time. Jamal Lewis, Fred Taylor, Priest Holmes, whoever takes over the Broncos job are canadaties, and LT better get in this year...
 
I just can't wait to see how it all plays out this year. Davis had a good first year last year, now we get to see how he will do over a full year. Another first season that compares to Davis was that of Rodney Thomas, who gained over 900 yards but then lost his job to Eddie George. I'm not saying that Davis = Thomas because I think Davis will have a better NFL career than Thomas, but it remains to be seen. I do know that Davis really stepped up last year and that if it wasn't for him, the Texans would have had a very dismal year and we wouldn't have anywhere near the same optimism for the 2004 season.

Tony Hollings will also make things interesting this year. He hasn't had much experience at running back, but Casserly and the scouting staff know a thing or two about talent so I have to assume that if Hollings is healthy he will be a pretty good RB. As just about everyone around here knows, it is the second season after knee surgery when a player will have his full speed and strength back, so the Hollings that we saw last year hopefully isn't the Hollings we will see this year. Hollings should still be developing as a RB just because he hasn't had the reps, especially in the passing game where he has to pick up the blitz. Regardless, we should finally get an idea this season about what kind of talent we have in Tony Hollings.

I think the RB position is very symbolic of the entire Texans team this year. This third year is the first year the Texans have enough talent and depth to be an average team in the NFL. It will be exciting to see how players like Davis, Hollings, Carr, Johnson, Gaffney, Joppru, Wand, Pitts, Peek, Babin, Robinson develop. All 11 of those guys were drafted by the Texans and should see quite a bit of playing time this year. If they play well, this could be a year we all remember for a long time.......the year the Texans served notice that they would be a factor from now on.
 
Cass is a fun guy to follow because of some of the unpredictable picks he makes
and he's a real gambler. But this Hollings pick was a real reach that I think may
exceed his grasp by a mile. He used what turned out to be a near first round pick for some guy that had 4 good games in college as a RB. That's it - 4 games. Period. Then he blew out his knee and really hasn't played much since
then (2002) - took all of last year to rehab. McGhee from Miami U. didn't go much higher than this guy and he was a top 5 and established as the best RB in
college before his knee injury. With the emergance of DD, if we could somehow
get a 2 from the Fins for Hollings - take it and run !
 
Fiddy said:
He still will have a hard time. Jamal Lewis, Fred Taylor, Priest Holmes, whoever takes over the Broncos job are canadaties, and LT better get in this year...
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Fred Taylor will be passed by DD this year. This is my prediction. KC's OL is beginning to lose players. Holmes' yards are a directly proportional to the OL's performance. LT has even less offensive weapons on his offense now. I think DD has better than average odds of getting to the pro-bowl.
 
Fred Taylor is one of the most gifted blends of size and speed in the NFL. Davis will not all of a sudden become more gifted. Ladanian is on a historic rushing pace. Tomlinson is 491 yards off Jim Brown's pace through 48 games, and 17 behind Walter Payton's. It's one thing to have confidence in fellow Texans but when you say Dom Davis is going to be better than Tomlinson you are saying he is on Jim Brown's or Walter Payton's production level.
 
LT also has Good Ol' Marty as his head coach, and more than likely will start the season with a rookie QB under center. What does all that add up to? A run first offense. He had an awesome year last year behind a patch-work offensive line. Just imagine what the guy could do behind a Denver or KC type O-Line. That being said, SD doesn't have a great O-Line, but it should be better than last year. Marty is a coach that consistently relies on the run, and LT will see plenty of carries and get plenty of yards. Don't write in DD as a Pro Bowler just yet.
 
Better late than never....has Hollings been traded yet idonno: If he has been good luck in Finn Land....what? You mean its all just rumor and idle speculation :idea:

Seriously how ridiculous. C'mon the Finns don't want Hollings anymore than that nunsguy. They should focus on trying to trade for Rudy out of Cincy or Marshall Faulk from St. Louis.

What did Dominack Davis do to get involved in this :crazy: remember he was a 4th round draft pick, mostly because of injurys during his college career @ LSU. However in the Texans system, with the revamped line and desire to run first/throw second Dominack Davis stands as good as chance as anybody to make the Pro-Bowl, only time will tell.

One might suppose a Finn 2nd round draft pick in 2005 will be worth close to a Raider 2nd round draft pick in 2004. Keep dreaming...............................
 
nunusguy said:
Cass is a fun guy to follow because of some of the unpredictable picks he makes and he's a real gambler. But this Hollings pick was a real reach that I think may exceed his grasp by a mile.
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Did you read the first page???
Hollings is the most enticing of this trio; he was the Texans' second-round pick in last year's supplemental draft, and league sources have in the past verified that his ability justifies the lofty draft status
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according to people from the league, his ability justifies him as a 2nd round selection.....
 
Also, the pick was originally a third round pick and an extra "expansion" pick that was traded to the Raiders for their second round choice in a later year. When we drafted Hollings the pick was something like 6 slots variance from our 3rd rounder. At the time we had Allen and Wells. I find it hard to be critical of taking a back with this pick especially since it was an extra pick and we never lost our second rounder.
 
HE PLAYED IN FOUR GAMES!!! That is not enough info tho validate A HIGH SECOND ROUND PICK!!! Tony Hollings WILL NOT start in Houston...EVER.
 
Beastlyman2003 said:
HE PLAYED IN FOUR GAMES!!! That is not enough info tho validate A HIGH SECOND ROUND PICK!!! Tony Hollings WILL NOT start in Houston...EVER.
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I guess you know more than our team of scouts? Hollings was an Option QB in HS and he converted to DB at Georgia Tech. He converted BACK to offense the year before we drafted him.
 
Beastlyman2003 said:
HE PLAYED IN FOUR GAMES!!! That is not enough info tho validate A HIGH SECOND ROUND PICK!!! Tony Hollings WILL NOT start in Houston...EVER.
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He is coming off of an ACL surgery. What do you want from him.

His ability justfies him as a 2nd round pick, remember that everyone thought Oakland was still going to be good a it was going to be a late 2nd round pick that would be as good as a early 3rd....

And he has already started a game for Houston...
 
Geeze lets tell Jamal lord not to even show up either. he hasn't played defensive back.. or lets just let coleman go being he hasn't played much safety..

The Texas took Hollings on what our scouts saw as in speed/ability/vison/talent etc..etc..

maybe it was 4 games at RB but they saw something in him and I am sure they looked at how he did in game film as a defensive back/special teams for GT
http://ramblinwreck.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/hollings_tony00.html


I am not going to say he is going to be elite.. but geeze let the man heal and lets see what he can do before judgement
 
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