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Head Coach Candidate (Lovie Smith Hired) 2/7/22

ArlingtonTexan

Coming Soon: AcresHomeTexan
Staff member
Looking at the resumes of the various candidates I still can’t figure out what is that one factor that puts one candidate ahead of another. It’s not coaching experience alone because some have many years and others little. What human attribute makes the difference? N the end I’m afraid it’s just a crapshoot.
IMO, the aspects of head coaching are

1) can you gain the trust around 100 grown men to do what you think is best
2) Can you make quick logical decision in pressure situations
3) do you a vision which includes an administrative and organization plan

None of these fans can actually see from a coordinator or assistant by just watching the game.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
IMO, the aspects of head coaching are

1) can you gain the trust around 100 grown men to do what you think is best
2) Can you make quick logical decision in pressure situations
3) do you a vision which includes an administrative and organization plan

None of these fans can actually see from a coordinator or assistant by just watching the game.
I agree with all of the criteria you've listed. But, the truly great coaches also knew the game from a schematic view like the back of their hand. Landry, Shula, Walsh, and Belichick were/are football geniuses. And I think that type of genius tends to include the traits you've listed. I always want to look for that chess master. That sees the game two moves before everyone else.
 

ArlingtonTexan

Coming Soon: AcresHomeTexan
Staff member
I agree with all of the criteria you've listed. But, the truly great coaches also knew the game from a schematic view like the back of their hand. Landry, Shula, Walsh, and Belichick were/are football geniuses. And I think that type of genius tends to include the traits you've listed. I always want to look for that chess master. That sees the game two moves before everyone else.
This is excellent. And you might actually being able to sense this watching a game. For example, Mike Tomlin, is a stupid good coach, no losing records for 15 years, but I don't get Football Genius thing from him. Same with an Andy Reid much less the McCarthy's of the world who some how won a Superbowl.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
I do see some genius in Reid. I think he's a HC that needs strong assistants around him to organize and lead the players. Reid seems like the guy who would rather be watching film for 16 hours a day.
Yeah, I was about to say something similar. I lived in the Philly area for a couple of years while Reid was there. The guy was an offensive genius. Yeah, he's got tons of talented people in KC now, but he was able to do amazing things with his teams in Philly.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
Mike Tomlin, is a stupid good coach, no losing records for 15 years, but I don't get Football Genius thing from him.
Tomlin is the strong leader type of HC. Like the Harbaughs of today, or like Parcells, Cowher, or even Lombardi of the past. When Tomlin came in, his coordinators were Dick LeBeau and Bruce Arians. A lot of football smarts. Tomlin has won, but hasn't won a Super Bowl without them.
 

ArlingtonTexan

Coming Soon: AcresHomeTexan
Staff member
Tomlin is the strong leader type of HC. Like the Harbaughs of today, or like Parcells, Cowher, or even Lombardi of the past. When Tomlin came in, his coordinators were Dick LeBeau and Bruce Arians. A lot of football smarts. Tomlin has won, but hasn't won a Super Bowl without them.
And Arians is now putting himself in that tier just below the all-timers for me.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
I hope we are...I'd hate to see us taking our time, meanwhile all the others are doing their interviews and making their hires and here we stand taking our TIME!
Figure OUT who the F£$%# we want and go get them! Do the interview and be done with it!
This hiring cycle will be much slower this year due to all of the GM openings. Owners want to make sure the GM/HC are aligned on philosophy to avoid having to “pick one over the other” down the line like the Dolphins just did and OB era Texans did multiple times.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Flores has a few Red Flags that would make me a little nervous if I was in Caserio's shoes having just fired my 1st HC hire after one season. There are reports out that he stopped speaking with his assistant coaches over the last couple months. What's that all about?!?
You have to give him credit for the way he finished the season (8-1) but I'd have to really be comfortable with his explanation about what was going on with him concerning that.
I'd also love to hire Flores away from every other team just to lock Watson out from ever getting the opportunity to team up with him! That would almost be worth it by itself!
And people really believe that the Dolphins ran without the HC communicating with his coaches? SMH. Whatever anyone thinks of Flores (and I am not a fan), this is nothing but pure click bait.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
This hiring cycle will be much slower this year due to all of the GM openings.
But, how often are Super Bowls won because the team had this great GM or front office? The Steelers? Ravens? It comes down to coaches and players. I want a front office that can manage the cap and scout the players. But I'm not as concerned as to who is in charge overall. The head coach selection is more important than the GM.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Looking at the resumes of the various candidates I still can’t figure out what is that one factor that puts one candidate ahead of another. It’s not coaching experience alone because some have many years and others little. What human attribute makes the difference? N the end I’m afraid it’s just a crapshoot.
For me, in the end it's flexibility. The ability and willingness to try something different or new, especially when what you are doing isn't working.
 
I agree with all of the criteria you've listed. But, the truly great coaches also knew the game from a schematic view like the back of their hand. Landry, Shula, Walsh, and Belichick were/are football geniuses. And I think that type of genius tends to include the traits you've listed. I always want to look for that chess master. That sees the game two moves before everyone else.
The problem is geniuses are not common. I see a lot more people playing marbles (not even checkers) vs chess.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
Looking at the resumes of the various candidates I still can’t figure out what is that one factor that puts one candidate ahead of another. It’s not coaching experience alone because some have many years and others little. What human attribute makes the difference? N the end I’m afraid it’s just a crapshoot.
Osi made a great point on the BBC’s NFL Show when speaking about the Giants and how dysfunctional the organisation is and how they can’t find the right coach or GM to turn the ship.

“You are just a QB away from being great”

Now, hiring the right coach for the right QB to succeed is a part of that equation too, but when you have your QB, it masks a lot of the problems.
 

michaelm

vox nihili
The problem is geniuses are not common. I see a lot more people playing marbles (not even checkers) vs chess.
This is like the old joke about the two guys that come across a bear in the forest and one starts tightening his shoe laces.
"You don't actually think you can outrun a bear do you?"
"I don't have to outrun a bear, I just have to outrun you".

It helps if the HC is a genius, but on any given Sunday he just has to be smarter than the opposing HC.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
But, how often are Super Bowls won because the team had this great GM or front office? The Steelers? Ravens? It comes down to coaches and players. I want a front office that can manage the cap and scout the players. But I'm not as concerned as to who is in charge overall. The head coach selection is more important than the GM.
Very often & your a fool if you believe that FO’s & GM’s aren’t huge factors in SB’s.

…Bill Polian by himself has been chiefly integral to 3 different teams reaching championship games and 5 SB’s as a GM. Literally everywhere that dude went success followed.

Bobby Bethard with those 80’s Redskins

Ozzie Newsome for a decade plus with the Ravens

Even now Jon Lynch with the 49ers…

the best teams in the league typically have good GM’s with great scouting and player personnel teams under them
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Very often & your a fool if you believe that FO’s & GM’s aren’t huge factors in SB’s.

…Bill Polian by himself has been chiefly integral to 3 different teams reaching championship games and 5 SB’s as a GM. Literally everywhere that dude went success followed.

Bobby Bethard with those 80’s Redskins

Ozzie Newsome for a decade plus with the Ravens

Even now Jon Lynch with the 49ers…

the best teams in the league typically have good GM’s with great scouting and player personnel teams under them
This

You have to have three things to win in the NFL: (1)A good front office working with a (2)good head coach. And (3)some luck.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
Bobby Bethard with those 80’s Redskins
And Joe Gibbs was the HC. Two HOFers, so it's hard to miss out on championships with that.

Good point on Polian. He was exactly the type of head honcho I wanted the Texans to bring in to oversee the organization. Let the HC coach, let the personnel department pick players. Let the owners watch from the luxury suites. And let Polian handle the heat.

Too bad the Texans haven't gone that way on the organization chart.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame

Texian

Hall of Fame
But, how often are Super Bowls won because the team had this great GM or front office? The Steelers? Ravens? It comes down to coaches and players. I want a front office that can manage the cap and scout the players. But I'm not as concerned as to who is in charge overall. The head coach selection is more important than the GM.
There is the occasional outlier and anomaly but for the most part you are spot on. The few cases of a top-notch GM mostly coincide with a smart HC. As you noted it is mostly the players and coaches that make the difference. The Cowboys lost yesterday and the real reason they lost is the poor stats from their star players, Dak, Eliot, Pollard, Lamb, were just plain pitiful. My choice is find a GM with a long-term vision with an eye for talent know good qualities in a HC is my preference. Tex Schram is the gold standard. Success is on the side of the head coaches ie: Lombardi, Noll, Walsh, Johnson, Parcels, Belichick, Reid.
 
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Mr teX

Hall of Fame
And Joe Gibbs was the HC. Two HOFers, so it's hard to miss out on championships with that.

Good point on Polian. He was exactly the type of head honcho I wanted the Texans to bring in to oversee the organization. Let the HC coach, let the personnel department pick players. Let the owners watch from the luxury suites. And let Polian handle the heat.

Too bad the Texans haven't gone that way on the organization chart.
problem is, HC’s of this era don’t wanna just coach anymore..they want some level of control over the roster too…which is usually in the player personnel area…but as with Mike Holmgren and a few others, they want to be the GM too.

So in that regard, I think NC’s main goal is to find a HC candidate who just wants to coach & will respect the power dynamic where the GM makes all the moves….with the HC’s input…but not necessarily needing their final say.
 

Earl34

All Pro
problem is, HC’s of this era don’t wanna just coach anymore..they want some level of control over the roster too…which is usually in the player personnel area…but as with Mike Holmgren and a few others, they want to be the GM too.

So in that regard, I think NC’s main goal is to find a HC candidate who just wants to coach & will respect the power dynamic where the GM makes all the moves….with the HC’s input…but not necessarily needing their final say.
HC's in this era also want to report directly to the owner instead of the GM. No matter how many times, HCs have failed trying to be too involved with personnel, they all want to "shop for the groceries".

My concern is that Caserio is building a model that is too GM/front office centric and I don't think that will work either. I think it limits his hiring options because only a first time, inexperienced candidate or a coach he knows personally and trust would agree to his level of involvement with the coaching staff. Also, if it does work initially. Once the HC's contract renewal is being discussed. How long before the HC will want Caserio to take off the training wheels and give him more input on his coaching staff, game day personnel or more input? How long do they stay "aligned"?

IMHO. I want the team culture and personality coming from the HC and his players and not some GM in a suit or sweater vest. I know I might be unfairly judging Caserio based on the Culley hiring and it might be an outlier in how he operates in the future. But I'm skeptical of his GM centric power structure for the same reason I'm skeptical of a HC with the HC/GM titles trying to be Belichick.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
So in that regard, I think NC’s main goal is to find a HC candidate who just wants to coach & will respect the power dynamic where the GM makes all the moves
Caserio needs to find the best HC...period. Worry about the other stuff later.

The guys Caserio will choose from will not have the status to ask for roster control. Down the line? That's down the line. If a guy is a good enough to lead the Texans to a championship, figure it out then. Get the best guy now.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
And Joe Gibbs was the HC. Two HOFers, so it's hard to miss out on championships with that.

Good point on Polian. He was exactly the type of head honcho I wanted the Texans to bring in to oversee the organization. Let the HC coach, let the personnel department pick players. Let the owners watch from the luxury suites. And let Polian handle the heat.

Too bad the Texans haven't gone that way on the organization chart.
How many championships did Polian win with Kelly and Manning as his QB's for 2 decades?

I would've expected more and the refs ripped off the Pats or Polian wouldn't have gotten that championship. Polian lobbied for rule changes about contact with receivers to get that SB.

This is Polian's contribution to making the game what it is today. A penalty fest. In short Polian was selfish and the game has suffered because of his selfishness. But hey, he got his championship, the game be damned.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
My concern is that Caserio is building a model that is too GM/front office centric and I don't think that will work either.
This is exactly what I want.

Well, either the GM is the top dog, or the HC is the top dog. It cannot be the owner imo, at least not the McNairs, because one minute he’s with the HC, the next he’s with the GM & you’re going in two directions.

I don’t think Arians went to Tampa thinking he’d have total control. I’m sure McCarty didn’t go to Dallas thinking he’d have any control over personnel
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
HC's in this era also want to report directly to the owner instead of the GM. No matter how many times, HCs have failed trying to be too involved with personnel, they all want to "shop for the groceries".

My concern is that Caserio is building a model that is too GM/front office centric and I don't think that will work either. I think it limits his hiring options because only a first time, inexperienced candidate or a coach he knows personally and trust would agree to his level of involvement with the coaching staff. Also, if it does work initially. Once the HC's contract renewal is being discussed. How long before the HC will want Caserio to take off the training wheels and give him more input on his coaching staff, game day personnel or more input? How long do they stay "aligned"?

IMHO. I want the team culture and personality coming from the HC and his players and not some GM in a suit or sweater vest. I know I might be unfairly judging Caserio based on the Culley hiring and it might be an outlier in how he operates in the future. But I'm skeptical of his GM centric power structure for the same reason I'm skeptical of a HC with the HC/GM titles trying to be Belichick.
Too much of anything is not good for sure & there is a little concern from me as well, but after what BoB did, i'm not so sure this is a bad thing for the Texans right now. I just think it unfortunately is a necessary power structure that fans,players & HC's don't give enough creedence to. The position by nature has a negative stigma to it from all angles. From a fan perspective, there's a love hate relationship with GM's when it comes to draft results, contracts and roster moves....from a player perspective, the only time they really interact with those guys is during contract negotiations, which as you know can turn contentious as the GM is trying to pay as little as they can get away with.....& from a HC perspective, they probably feel like GM's step on their toes too much when they make roster moves concerning the players that they spend so much time developing & may want to keep.....not to mention those guys can fire them at any moment.

So There's an element of trust that has to be developed/understood and the best way to do that is looking for guys who understand what you're trying to do and/or trust you and know you know what you're doing..........which is why it only makes sense why NC keeps going back to the Patriot tree...& why folks need to stop losing their **** over that. Kubiak did the same thing when he came from Denver...it just worked in reverse. Not only did he bring Rick Smith over from there, he also brought Lil Shanny, Richard Smith, Rick Dennison and a bunch of other guys from there in the subsequent years.

I don't see anything NC has done that says he's in over his head..& i actually kinda like how his approach with everything has been thus far.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I think it limits his hiring options because only a first time, inexperienced candidate or a coach he knows personally and trust would agree to his level of involvement with the coaching staff.
I’m sorry. I didn’t think you meant coaching staff.

I don’t know that Caserio wants to hire coaching staff. I know Kelly was “forced” on Culley but not because Caserio thought he was a good coordinator.

at the same time I like the idea of a “Texans” coaching staff & just adding the HC at the top. Similar to what they do in Pittsburg, what the used to do in Philly.

my thinking is that you are developing those coaches, every one of them. A HC change should not be as devastating to a team as it commonly is, replacing an entire staff.

But I think we should ask a HC to come in & take over our staff & build it up in the future. We have an OC opening as well. It should be the HC’s job to fill that position.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
This is like the old joke about the two guys that come across a bear in the forest and one starts tightening his shoe laces.
"You don't actually think you can outrun a beard do you?"
"I don't have to outrun a bear, I just have to outrun you".

It helps if the HC is a genius, but on any given Sunday he just has to be smarter than the opposing HC.
I tried to outrun my beard one time but could only catch up with it. To be honest I only got within a whisker's length.
 

Dejaview

All Pro
Very often & your a fool if you believe that FO’s & GM’s aren’t huge factors in SB’s.

…Bill Polian by himself has been chiefly integral to 3 different teams reaching championship games and 5 SB’s as a GM. Literally everywhere that dude went success followed.

Bobby Bethard with those 80’s Redskins

Ozzie Newsome for a decade plus with the Ravens

Even now Jon Lynch with the 49ers…

the best teams in the league typically have good GM’s with great scouting and player personnel teams under them
I’m thinking along the same lines. Perhaps a good test is to analyze the Jags. Are they what they are because the GM has no eye for talent or because they can’t get the HC right To coach those high draft picks? The GM needs to be in sync with the HC to fill the roster with the players that fit the HC’s schemes. But to me the art a HC has to bring is to master the tempo of the O and to master momentum. I believe both prevented Kubiak from getting the Texans to the next level.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
Aaron Wilson reporting that Texans have requested Eagles DC Jonathan Gannon.

I like that we seem to be looking for a younger HC. Just hope one of these interviews is Cap'n Meco once he's available.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Gannon is 39, but already has 11 years NFL coaching experience as well as 3 years as a scout. From the Cleveland area, like Caserio.
 

Jack Burton

Veteran
I’m thinking along the same lines. Perhaps a good test is to analyze the Jags. Are they what they are because the GM has no eye for talent or because they can’t get the HC right To coach those high draft picks? The GM needs to be in sync with the HC to fill the roster with the players that fit the HC’s schemes. But to me the art a HC has to bring is to master the tempo of the O and to master momentum. I believe both prevented Kubiak from getting the Texans to the next level.
I’d like to go the route some teams have gone with a specific candidate. Belichick, Mike Shanahan with Denver, Holmgren with GB. Full GM-HC duties and let that person run the whole show and the owner stays wholly the F out of the any and all day to day activities and decisions. That’s why I am open to trading Derrick ASAP, and then using some of those picks to trade for Sean Payton and give him the GM-HC title and a 10 year contract and then let him run the show.
 

frethack

Rookie
Gannon is 39, but already has 11 years NFL coaching experience as well as 3 years as a scout. From the Cleveland area, like Caserio.
That's a lot of years for a 39 year old

I like that they are turning over stones, but Gannons defense wasn't so great in the playoffs. Then again, I was ready to jettison Vrabel after one year as DC, and the tacks definitely got the best branch from the "BOB tree".

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