Texas Jake
Rookie
When healthy is the catch. We need to add another wr because Fuller can't stay healthy and coutee hasnt stayed healthy.
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infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The fact he had options is irrelevant. We have no idea what success he would have had outside Kubiak's offense. Foster thrived off extreme outside zone, especially backside. Very few teams run that as a staple.
On track to tie.
They need a LT and probably a RT.
What did all of that get Kubiak
I would agree with you but the WR'S are never healthy.
I stick by my post about lack of consistency. You're not going to see it until the issues I pointed out are fixed. I've got faith in Gaine being able to fix them this offseason.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Tex the offensive line may not pass your eye test, but most grading metrics have them just as you describe... Average. Watson has among the most time to throw in the league. Kid is responsible for ALOT of what's happening to him. Your precious run game is ranked 6th in the league! Who would have thought that? Not me certainly. O'Brien has been getting his due when deserving, You speak of moving goalposts and then you want to discredit every data point available when trying to assess and analyze the guy you say stuff like "1st round talent that fell" isn't that also moving the posts a little? it comes down to very black and white numbers. He's doing a better job as HC. Limited managerial mistakes you just have to understand that alot of guys are running out of patience in the same way that people ran out of patience with Koobs.
So Obrien couldn't bring in players he wanted for his system because Rick Smith wouldn't listen to his needs and selected guys Jerry Jones style? I guess I am just having a hard time believing that.
Not resigning guys like Glver Quinn, Brooks, Bouye, Ben Jones .. getting rid of Demeco .. the way Andre left .. that was Rick Smith in his glory .. couldn't be a good GM WITHOUT the input of a successful coach vocalizing what he wants/needs.
Look the Koobs thing is irrelevant and really not productive I'll admit that. I'll also say that Bill Obrien is trending up. His signature moments are near and I wouldn't be surprised if the Texans continue to play well under him. His methodical preparation is evident in the focus of the team during 0-3.
We're going to the playoffs, and we are going to need Bill O'Brien at the top of his game and the players executing the plays that by now should be easy enough to run blindfolded.
What if Bell is a real possibility next year? Gaine is some draft savant and he nails a few more picks and Bill finds a good OC to let him focus on being a HC which he is doing a good job at (2nd time I said he's doing a good job) then you could have the makings of a dynasty. I'm just not fond of Bill the playcaller. Call it aesthetic, lack of talent or informational absorbtion issues there is definitely a pro and con list, but it's not all one OR the other. :Thumbsup:
OBrien would run Foster up the middle.
And yes the team is winning with defense as it has the past 5 years. The offense is 19th in TDs but at least they kick a lot of field goals. Most games they are just getting around 20 points. That's not winning with offense
And yes the team is winning with defense as it has the past 5 years. The offense is 19th in TDs but at least they kick a lot of field goals. Most games they are just getting around 20 points. That's not winning with offense
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
This team is still about a year away. This was my stance at the beginning of the season and I still feel that way. The o-line was gonna be an issue and it was going to hinder us. I also don’t believe this defense is as good as everyone thinks. I’ve watched the games, done the splits and they’re good, but not championship elite imo. Last week vs the Colts was pretty close to what I thought was gonna happen. Once the Colts got rolling, they couldn’t stop them when they needed to.
Lot to unpack here, but I hear what you’re trying to say. My thing is I watch this team every Sunday and I don’t necessarily see how BoB calling the plays takes away from him as an overall HC. Fans make the assumption that it takes away from him being able to manage the game and there’s really no proof of that. What some here try to point out as game management errors are really just differences in strategy that didn’t work out. Which is pretty much how it goes with pro sports.
Aside from that, Most of the mistakes being made that cause this team to lose games and stall out offensively at times center on fails in execution for reasons unrelated to coaching and are mostly on the player.
Better coaching wasn’t at the root of Clowney jumping offsides last week. Sure a different play call here and there possibily would help in certain situations, but the guy isn’t going to bat 100% calling plays anymore than DW4 is going to complete 100% of his throws accurately...anymore than the defensive guys are going to make 100% of the tackles they attempt.
Furthermore, we as fans don’t know what BoB is seeing/hearing from his coaches/trainers down on the sideline nor do we know what DW4/Sean Ryan are telling him that they’re seeing from the defense. So to chastise the guy for making certain calls that u don’t agree with is kinda shortsighted.
Play calling is an art and yes some guys are better at it than others, but even the best don’t bat 100%.
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Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I dont doubt that they turn over even 3/5 of the line next year if they can truly find 'good' linemen, but alot of things have to happen. Draft night you can't be boxed into position, you take best player MAYBE that's a LT maybe not. Then you're back to scrambling around overextending .. I stand by my point .. the offensive line is average at best and definitely not the shining reason why this team fails they are just an easy scapegoat at times, hell yeah they screw up.
So then how do you explain the 9 game win streak? Were they not being consitent in several different aspects during the streak?
Very easily, they won 9 games by running the ball (Sometimes not successfully) shortening the game, playing defense and hitting Nuk/Fuller on 2/3 big plays a game. Very simple really, they started throwing the ball alot less and protected the crap OL. (Smart Coaching byBOB) Notice they threw the ball more last Sunday and lost?
Texazan
Our HOF 34
Man you guys are serious. 
Gotta give it to this board over the “official” board that died.
A lot of good points being made. I’d just say that I’m not looking too far forward and I’m definitely not going backwards and aside from it being why we're here now to me it’s irrelevant at this point.
I just think for as many issues as we have on both sides of the ball NO ONE here should say they thought we were a SB contender so it’s been a great season thus far. Now, if Gaine and BOB screw the pooch wth picks and BOB continues to underperform then it’s all bets off. Patience is already thin, they have to hit a HR with this next draft.
Gotta give it to this board over the “official” board that died.A lot of good points being made. I’d just say that I’m not looking too far forward and I’m definitely not going backwards and aside from it being why we're here now to me it’s irrelevant at this point.
I just think for as many issues as we have on both sides of the ball NO ONE here should say they thought we were a SB contender so it’s been a great season thus far. Now, if Gaine and BOB screw the pooch wth picks and BOB continues to underperform then it’s all bets off. Patience is already thin, they have to hit a HR with this next draft.
Texazan
Our HOF 34
We really miss a REAL burner like Fuller....
Gotta find one of those type guys in Draft/FA.
O'Brien remakes the offense every year doesn't he? Probably looking at a new OL and some new gadget players on offense next year.
So O'B got credit for "bringing in" RC and Vrabel, but Kubiak was lucky that Gibbs was available and that Wade was forced on him.
Got it.
I never said Kubiak was 'lucky', just that he knew Gibbs and was able to talk him out of retirement
You're just being argumetative now. I'm not going to rise to your bait. Even you can't deny that Gibbs established the ZBS here
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yeah
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
They threw the ball more in the first matchup with indy and won. I'm sure if we picked apart each game there was alot more than 'running better and protecting' that won 3 or 4 of those in the streak. Guess what the defense played lights out during the streak too! Ground breaking yeah? Last game; save 4 consecutive scoring drives; they did enough to win, but when the team struggles it's not accurate to say it was 'just this or just that' up to and including O'Brien struggling like he did Sunday by losing another challenge/timeout and playing a 3rd string QB in the slot during a meaningful game.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
It's just grasping at straws. If this team did nothing on the OL and we had Leveon Bell we would be 1 or 2 in rushing more than likely. Still would be an average line. Of course you can upgrade LT and whatever else, but unless it's significantly better you're just introducing another new guy who will take time to acclimate. It's no wonder the line has played better as the season wears on because OL chemistry is a real thing.
Maximize your players strengths, have an identity, have bread and butter plays that you know will work. This is what I expected:
https://www.baltimoresportsandlife.com/erhardt-perkins-system-part-2/
We try so hard to be the Patriots but NE doesn't need all these elite players to be successful. They coach then up and depend on the QB and solid defense. Watson will get there, just need continued offensive malleability and growth.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
BoB and the Texans have an identity. It’s run the ball well, limit DW4’s drop backs and play solid defense. The offensive malleability part is using DW4 to supplement and at times jumpstart the run game. DW4 does this naturally sometimes but BoB also assistswith a zone read or qb keeper play call. As U noted though, DW4 has to continue to grow...more so as a passer. Teams have to fear him more as that for this offense to go to the next level.
But those guys on the other side of the ball get paid too.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Absolutely. I saw somewhere that the Texan defense is last in the league in red zone scoring % .. thats no bueno. RAC isnt devoid of criticism either, he's been slipping with those huge coverage cushions and stubborn zone blitz that isnt getting there. When he goes man he's doing it in horrible matchups BUT you have to also admit that there have been plenty of times where this defense has saved the day and then that will spawn a 'well the competition was inferior' tangent and keeps that revolving door spinning. Like I've been trying to say its a combination of many different factors, not just OL, not just WR, not just CB, not just, poorly excuted or timed plays .. a little of everything. As far as Watson, hey man we're all going to have to take those rough days in stride. If you yourself are looking towards next year as a serious contender type year, then Watson will be better by then for sure. Year 5? He's smart enough to run Bills system, and he's definitely shown flashes of stardom. Consistency is key for all young guys, I have no doubt he'll get there. He knows how to win, you cant teach that.
It's accurate to say they got away from the type of ball that lead to the winning streak.
If Watson would have completed those 2 passes they would've put up 35 pts. That's not BOB struggling. Yes he missed on a challenge, all HC's do. I wouldn't call that struggling. This is the reason I cant wait for next yr, so BOB can be more of a game manager with Ryan calling the plays.
BOB managing the games/ Ryan calling plays with the OL being fixed, good times are ahead, if Cal is willing to spend the $$$$.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Bro look up Bill Obriens challenge win % and then get back to me about struggling, but thats just part of the big picture. Its a part of being HC. Painting a broad stroke that 'everybody is doing it' doesnt fully capture those individual moments when its OK to question. Last Sunday everyone and their momma knew that there wasnt enough to overturn that call, early in the year he goofed up on the 'Gronk catch' its still not lowering in him his grave to say that. You're trying to hard to prop him up and dont seem to find common ground when its not a negative to want certain things that seem to be weaknesses to become strengths? If a player is having a hard time picking up a blitz, he hits the film room, he practices, he tries to get better at that aspect, well those innate, instinct type coaching moments I feel can also be improved with more time being subjected to such stress and learning how to deal with it the next time.
If 'if's' and 'buts' were candies and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Bingo that right there has been the main reason that NE has been the kings for so long and the main reason they are slipping now. Watson is no Tom Brady but Tom Brady wasn't Tom Brady in his first, full season either. I posted in another thread the stat comparison and Watson looks better than Brady did at this point in his career. That's the main reason I want the O Line fixed not because I think that is the magic bullet that will take us to the Super Bowl but so that Watson doesn't get broken down like Carr did and has time to become the franchise QB that all signs seem to point to.
Some say this team is a year away from a Super Bowl I say more like 2 years if this current team can stay mostly healthy. We have serious needs in this draft/FA and teams that have serious needs, beyond a player or two, rarely are ready for a super bowl run the next year. We fix those needs best we can in this year and then in 2020 draft hopefully we are just adding depth and/or filling in those few key players. Then we are ready for a super bowl run and that actually lines up with NE since everyone, everywhere loves to compare us to them for some reason. Brady was drafted in 2000, first full season in 2001, first SB in 2002.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I agree if BoB can get away from trying to call the plays while also manage the game then our offense will but much harder to predict and BoB challenge stats might even go up because he will have had better focus on that. I don't care what people say there is no way anybody can have both the OC and the HC job and do both to the best of their ability. You just can't do two, full time jobs and be as good as possible at both. You might be passable, which is what I think BoB has been, but you won't be at your best.
I'd be mostly exited about not seeing Miller be run up the middle every other play.
As far as Cal goes something tells me he is going to be in the "win this one for my dad" mode. I don't know the McNair's but Cal and Bob seemed to be pretty close and this team was his dad's very hard fought legacy. Nobody in the NFL wanted Houston to have a team, they wanted LA to have it, but McNair made the deal to sweet to resist. So I think for at least a couple of years it might be damn the expense just get this team a ring.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
We have a **** ton of cap space too. Why not sign a high quality player, AND have a knock out draft? I mean the playoffs havent even started and you guys are already looking at next year and beyond. Im trying to see how these guys can catch lightning in a bottle THIS YEAR.
Thing is trying to emulate NE was a designed approach just like being "Denver South" for all those years. We dont necessarily have a "Houston Texans" identity, and Im ok with that, I just want to at least get to the AFC Champ game this year. It could be the difference from swaying FA's on the fence about coming here. It's too late in the season for the pessimism, at this point all we can do as fans is try and determine HOW could the impossible actually become possible and Im just saying this team has plenty to play for, this team has its own identity on the line this playoffs. They can create what could be a coming dynasty or go down in a ball of flames and we can continue to ***** and moan about talent, or coaches or owners. 16 years man. 16 years.
Sean McVay seems to do pretty well
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Sean McVay was probably a good OC to begin with. O'B on the other hand probably wasn't.
This is the knock on him. I think he can be but he seems to be stubborn in trying to run a certain system and force players to it instead of trying to adapt a system that will bring the best out of the players he has.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Looking to the future and trying to figure out how to improve the team isn't pessimism. That is exactly how you build long lasting dynasties like NE or the 90s Cowboys, and yes I threw up in my mouth a bit typing that. In fact I hope that is exactly what our scouts have been doing all year, looking at the draft and who is coming up in FA and figuring out how to get the most bang for the buck. Yeah you can have a good year and maybe even get a SB win but then you end up like Denver where you put everything into winning that year and then the next who knows how many years you are basically just a step above rebuild mode.
That's ok, somewhat, if you actually win the SB but if you don't then you have gone all in and rolled snake eyes. Would I love for them to win this year, of course but I'm also realistic enough to know that if they do its due to a fluke and not because the team is ready for it. You seem to only care about getting that one big win, that's understandable but for me I would rather build a team that is a serious contender rather than one that has a flash of glory and then 10 years of .500 record at best.
Also what about 16 years? The Browns, Lions and Jaguars have never even been to a Super Bowl, you want to talk about long painful waits go talk to them. In terms of Championships 16 years is nothing. How long did we wait before the Astros figured it out?
I didn't say infallible, but the Rams didn't lose because McVay couldn't handle calling plays and handling game management... or you think all good coaches should go 19-0?
Sean McVay was probably a good OC to begin with. O'B on the other hand probably wasn't.
Your opinion... he never would have made OC for BB in that case or been hired after
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
No it was more of a joke, though I will say that I think the Rams wouldn't be having a much better season than us if the NFC as a whole wasn't so weak this season. Also I didn't say it couldn't be done just that you can't do it and give both jobs your best.
Who knows, you could be right and McVay just might be that much better a coach than BoB. I know you didn't say that, that's me putting the idea out there. But you go to war with the army you have and I think the general leading this army will be much better if he gets a colonel to command the offense and let him just oversee the war as a whole.
Okay, but that's not how you came across. I think hiring a colonel (to use your analogy) is more harmful than good if you wind up with a Klink. We may have the guy already on the team. Just saying making a move to appease fans is generally not the way to conduct business
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Agreed and that is how we ended up with BoB as the OC in the first place. He felt he was getting burned by the OCs hired and it was his ass on the line so he said to hell with it I'll do it myself. I don't blame him, I would have done the same but now with a new GM and a team coming together I think its time to try again. Also while doing something to appease fans may not be the way to conduct business, debatable if you are just trying to sell tickets and that is your main goal, neither is allowing a HC to continue to try and wear a lot of hats when it seems to be holding you back.
Or do you think BoBs offense has not become fairly predictable and sending Miller up the middle every other play will start working to win games?
It was still OB's offense... it's not the coordinator that always makes the difference
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I hate the idea of promoting from within to OC. Get an outside E-P guy for a fresh perspective. But I'm sure OB will promote from within to effectively stay OC.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Jaguars went to AFC championship in their first few years. Browns have been to AFC Championship games. Lions have been to an NFC Championship (long freaking time ago, but still) .. We've never been much more than 2nd round fodder for the most part that leaves the team in limbo about the direction it needs to go. Im not big on moral victories, but getting to at least the AFC Champ game would be a huge step in the solidifying this team as legit, and the beauty is that its within reach. I mean some guys have been spending 16 years waiting on a big win, im tired of trying to build this dynasty that has never materialized. Yes I want a signature moment for our team. As assembled this shouldnt be a one and done roster, but football is funny and as a fan of Houston professional football its a miracle im not institutionalized somewhere doing this:
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Exactly, the Cowboys saved their season with one trade. Cooper has been a big time trade for them.
Selling tickets is not nor likely to ever be a concern for the Texans
The best thing for the Cowboys is that they appear to have understood and self-scouted themselves enough to know that a difference maker at WR mattered. All of a sudden they have a young WR, Stud RB and at least acceptable QB to good along with good OL and an improving defense.
(or I can be negative for negative's sake and say they just got lucky)
Remember basically no one except the Cowboys thought it was a good idea to send a 1st round pick for Cooper. At least for 2018, it looks good for them.
The Cowboys WR trade was smart for these reasons IMO:
1. Best wr available and still getting better at his age.
2. Signed through next year, so they can offer him an extension to keep him at a good value.
3. Conversely if he leaves, they get compensation picks.
By contrast, the Demaryius deal is almost guaranteed to be a half-year rental with no compensatory picks if he leaves because the Texans will likely cut him. Only possibility is he likes it here so much he takes a discount. If they keep him at his current deal, he's overpaid.
1. Best wr available and still getting better at his age.
2. Signed through next year, so they can offer him an extension to keep him at a good value.
3. Conversely if he leaves, they get compensation picks.
By contrast, the Demaryius deal is almost guaranteed to be a half-year rental with no compensatory picks if he leaves because the Texans will likely cut him. Only possibility is he likes it here so much he takes a discount. If they keep him at his current deal, he's overpaid.
Even if not used like "we the fans" think D Thomas should be, I personally have no interest in the Webb/Coates/UDFA rookie combo that would have been there w/o that trade on Sunday. Having another legit NFL WR even on the field for 8 or so games is worth that 4th round pick.
If I were Gaine I'd be trying to rework DT's deal longer term.
Three seasons in, Fuller has yet to finish one.
DT, OTOH, has played every game the last six seasons. Was a 1000-yd guy in five of them. Yeah, I'd try to get a couple more years out of an, experienced, big-bodied RZ target.
Yeah, yeah the deal has to be right. But I wouldn't just cut him.
edit: it would be just our luck that as soon as we cut him, he ends up in Indy or Tenn.
Good luck with this.
Ryan is going to be the OC next yr.
Fixing the OL and finding a speed WR would do far more for fixing the OL than getting a new OC would. IMHO
I would like to see DT stay but that's highly unlikely. The DT trade helped save the season and that's why the trade was well worth a 4th whether DT is back or not.
Texas Jake
Rookie
I think we may have a better chance keeping DT than you think. The opportunity to catch passes from Watson is a plus, the locker room is a plus, and we are a few pieces away from becoming a serious contender. I would think the situation would be a appealing to DT, but we will have to wait and see if this is true.
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