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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

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FuzzyLogic said:
Agree... they move Mahomes a bunch - their last game against the Charges they ran this play (triple option?) two times in a row.

https://imgur.com/a/IovXuNO
https://imgur.com/a/D4rxfxJ

Texans have similar looks in the 'ol playbook, and this probably should have been the call in the 4th quarter when we needed 1 yard on 4th down to win the game. Let Watson decide to keep or throw.

https://imgur.com/a/SPtKLJ0
Click to expand...
I think we ran this after KC ran it against us. Not sure. Kind of like the qb sweep we did in second half of Bills game after they ran it on us in the first half. At least his ego allows him to copy plays that fit our system. Anybody else hear about how BOB showed Cecil Shorts and team NE highlights trying to convince them his system works using Brady, Welker, and Moss. I am sorry he is too stubborn to adapt. Just my feelings. We will find out this week based on how he calls game in the beginning. Hoping for Texans and Titans wins
 
steelbtexan said:
Great deflection

This is going nowhere.

I was trying to have a football discussion and somehow got caught up in an elementary school discussion. Lets move on for the good of the MB as a whole.
Click to expand...

I agree. Going nowhere. Frustrating part is you don’t need to make up things to hate on OB. He makes it rather easy.

I am going to try to take the high road. I think I have done enough rolling around with the pigs. I need to shower. Point has been made. Multiple times. Multiple threads. The board is probably tired of it.

Let’s get excited for our Texans. We need to start singing Kumbaya and be united against these Chiefs.

Go Texans!
 
Mr teX said:
The play highlighted here for KC we run at least 3-5 a game...usually to our TE’s.
Click to expand...

You are right and in some games it’s worked really well, in others not as much. My issue with running that play with the TEs is Fells is really limited in YAC ability. He’s had a great season for us and I’m really glad we signed him. However on that play I’ve seen Fells catch the ball and get tackled almost immediately for a 2 yd gain. If you want to go to a TE use Aikins on plays like that

I’d prefer we run that to a WR or RB, someone with better speed and running ability.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
That hesitation does not occur because of the coach telling him to play different. It's, at least for now, a matter of hesitancy in the processing/decision-making. You see it in his decisions to run or not to run..........to pass or not to pass...........to throw away the ball or not to throw away the ball. The hesitancy shows up when he allows the receiver's window to close by throwing the ball late..........or throwing the ball just after defenders are about to key onto what would have otherwise been an open receiver.
Click to expand...

In several games this season when Watson breaks the pocket he’s been sacked. To me it looks like he’s scanning the field looking to make a play downfield and it often allows the backside pass rusher time to close ground. There have been numerous times where I’ve wished he’d either it throw it away or just take off and get what he can. I don’t see it as a delay in processing as much as maybe trying to do too much. As Rich Gannon says, you’ll never go broke taking a profit.

Just to be clear I have also seen what you’re talking about, ie holding the ball too long and not throwing with anticipation as well. I chalk it up to still being young and learning the game. Everyone learns at different rates. If and when his internal clock speeds up he’ll be an absolute monster.

As I’m typing this another thought popped up, if I understand our system correctly, there are reads being made by both the WRs and QBs, and routes are adjusted based on those reads. If you think about our receiving corps over the past couple of years we’ve played quite a few young/new guys - Carter, Coutee, Stills, Smith, Fells, Thoms, and Akins. I wonder if some of the processing delays and hesitation is DW wanting to make sure he and the WRs are on the same page before actually delivering the ball, ie he wants to see what the receivers do vs anticipate which would cause a delay. I know I’ve seen him motioning to receivers during games indicating he wanted them to do something differently. Maybe this is another reason why the offense is really productive when Fuller is on the field, he just knows the system better and DW is more comfortable with him. Cecil Shorts has said it takes 2-3 yrs to truly understand the offense. The only receivers we have that have that kind of time invested are Fuller and Hopkin.

Im not trying to completely indemnify Watson, he‘s a young QB and he makes mistakes that most young QBs make, but maybe there are some other things at play as well, ie sometimes trying to do too much and maybe a lack of complete chemistry with our young/new receivers
 
otisbean said:
In several games this season when Watson breaks the pocket he’s been sacked. To me it looks like he’s scanning the field looking to make a play downfield and it often allows the backside pass rusher time to close ground. There have been numerous times where I’ve wished he’d either it throw it away or just take off and get what he can. I don’t see it as a delay in processing as much as maybe trying to do too much. As Rich Gannon says, you’ll never go broke taking a profit.

Just to be clear I have also seen what you’re talking about, ie holding the ball too long and not throwing with anticipation as well. I chalk it up to still being young and learning the game. Everyone learns at different rates. If and when his internal clock speeds up he’ll be an absolute monster.

As I’m typing this another thought popped up, if I understand our system correctly, there are reads being made by both the WRs and QBs, and routes are adjusted based on those reads. If you think about our receiving corps over the past couple of years we’ve played quite a few young/new guys - Carter, Coutee, Stills, Smith, Fells, Thoms, and Akins. I wonder if some of the processing delays and hesitation is DW wanting to make sure he and the WRs are on the same page before actually delivering the ball, ie he wants to see what the receivers do vs anticipate which would cause a delay. I know I’ve seen him motioning to receivers during games indicating he wanted them to do something differently. Maybe this is another reason why the offense is really productive when Fuller is on the field, he just knows the system better and DW is more comfortable with him. Cecil Shorts has said it takes 2-3 yrs to truly understand the offense. The only receivers we have that have that kind of time invested are Fuller and Hopkin.

Im not trying to completely indemnify Watson, he‘s a young QB and he makes mistakes that most young QBs make, but maybe there are some other things at play as well, ie sometimes trying to do too much and maybe a lack of complete chemistry with our young/new receivers
Click to expand...

After a full season together this yr. DW4 and the young guys should have developed better chemistry. Not meant to be a knock at you but this is just more excuses trying to explain away DW4's issues.

Hopefully he can improve the speed he procceses info at and improve his anticipation. I think the ability to anticipate and accuracy are things a QB is born with. Processing info is something that can be improved on.

If he can improve his areas of weakness like processing info (Yes he has weaknesses JIC crowd) then he can become truly great. He's already pretty good, I mean the Houston Watson's have made it to the divisional rd with the Run Deshaun run style of play. Imagine if he learns how to anticipate throws, at that point the Houston Watson's will be SB contenders.
 
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otisbean said:
In several games this season when Watson breaks the pocket he’s been sacked. To me it looks like he’s scanning the field looking to make a play downfield and it often allows the backside pass rusher time to close ground. There have been numerous times where I’ve wished he’d either it throw it away or just take off and get what he can. I don’t see it as a delay in processing as much as maybe trying to do too much. As Rich Gannon says, you’ll never go broke taking a profit.

Just to be clear I have also seen what you’re talking about, ie holding the ball too long and not throwing with anticipation as well. I chalk it up to still being young and learning the game. Everyone learns at different rates. If and when his internal clock speeds up he’ll be an absolute monster.

As I’m typing this another thought popped up, if I understand our system correctly, there are reads being made by both the WRs and QBs, and routes are adjusted based on those reads. If you think about our receiving corps over the past couple of years we’ve played quite a few young/new guys - Carter, Coutee, Stills, Smith, Fells, Thoms, and Akins. I wonder if some of the processing delays and hesitation is DW wanting to make sure he and the WRs are on the same page before actually delivering the ball, ie he wants to see what the receivers do vs anticipate which would cause a delay. I know I’ve seen him motioning to receivers during games indicating he wanted them to do something differently. Maybe this is another reason why the offense is really productive when Fuller is on the field, he just knows the system better and DW is more comfortable with him. Cecil Shorts has said it takes 2-3 yrs to truly understand the offense. The only receivers we have that have that kind of time invested are Fuller and Hopkin.

Im not trying to completely indemnify Watson, he‘s a young QB and he makes mistakes that most young QBs make, but maybe there are some other things at play as well, ie sometimes trying to do too much and maybe a lack of complete chemistry with our young/new receivers
Click to expand...

Excellent post and I hadn’t really thought about it like that.
 
otisbean said:
In several games this season when Watson breaks the pocket he’s been sacked. To me it looks like he’s scanning the field looking to make a play downfield and it often allows the backside pass rusher time to close ground. There have been numerous times where I’ve wished he’d either it throw it away or just take off and get what he can. I don’t see it as a delay in processing as much as maybe trying to do too much. As Rich Gannon says, you’ll never go broke taking a profit.

Just to be clear I have also seen what you’re talking about, ie holding the ball too long and not throwing with anticipation as well. I chalk it up to still being young and learning the game. Everyone learns at different rates. If and when his internal clock speeds up he’ll be an absolute monster.

As I’m typing this another thought popped up, if I understand our system correctly, there are reads being made by both the WRs and QBs, and routes are adjusted based on those reads. If you think about our receiving corps over the past couple of years we’ve played quite a few young/new guys - Carter, Coutee, Stills, Smith, Fells, Thoms, and Akins. I wonder if some of the processing delays and hesitation is DW wanting to make sure he and the WRs are on the same page before actually delivering the ball, ie he wants to see what the receivers do vs anticipate which would cause a delay. I know I’ve seen him motioning to receivers during games indicating he wanted them to do something differently. Maybe this is another reason why the offense is really productive when Fuller is on the field, he just knows the system better and DW is more comfortable with him. Cecil Shorts has said it takes 2-3 yrs to truly understand the offense. The only receivers we have that have that kind of time invested are Fuller and Hopkin.

Im not trying to completely indemnify Watson, he‘s a young QB and he makes mistakes that most young QBs make, but maybe there are some other things at play as well, ie sometimes trying to do too much and maybe a lack of complete chemistry with our young/new receivers
Click to expand...
Good point, some people blame DW4, I tend to think it is a bit on him, but more on some of the receivers. Offense must be damn complex to take 2-3 years in it, many guys don't last that long
 
Otisbean, like you, I have also entertained the alternative conclusions for the apparent QB "mistakes/faults in his game"...............giving the benefit of the doubt to Watson. On the other hand, though, the ultimate results can just as easily be explained by apparent flaws in the QB's reading/processing/executing. As you have posted, time is the only factor that will give us the definitive answer as to Watson's contribution to the "problems." Meanwhile, neither "theory" of "blame" should be discounted.

Time is not necessarily on our side in that there looms the little question of a new multi-million dollar contract which is quickly creeping in. Considering that upcoming potential long-term contract, prematurely having to take one side of the argument and being right can mean that this franchise can become a "superior" power. Prematurely taking the other side of the argument and being right can mean a huge setback with probably years to recoup, not to mention the addition of those contract years lost in hoping for those needed/anticipated changes.........all the while hoping his style of play will not end in major performance-affecting injury.

With all this said, there is no doubt that honest, unbiased, open-minded analysis must now be an extremely important approach for us in our discussions........................but much more importantly for those in their ivory castles making the actual decisions.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Otisbean, like you, I have also entertained the alternative conclusions for the apparent QB "mistakes/faults in his game"...............giving the benefit of the doubt to Watson. On the other hand, though, the ultimate results can just as easily be explained by apparent flaws in the QB's reading/processing/executing. As you have posted, time is the only factor that will give us the definitive answer as to Watson's contribution to the "problems." Meanwhile, neither "theory" of "blame" should be discounted.

Time is not necessarily on our side in that there looms the little question of a new multi-million dollar contract which is quickly creeping in. Considering that upcoming potential long-term contract, prematurely having to take one side of the argument and being right can mean that this franchise can become a "superior" power. Prematurely taking the other side of the argument and being right can mean a huge setback with probably years to recoup, not to mention the addition of those contract years lost in hoping for those needed/anticipated changes.........all the while hoping his style of play will not end in major performance-affecting injury.

With all this said, there is no doubt that honest, unbiased, open-minded analysis must now be an extremely important approach for us in our discussions........................but much more importantly for those in their ivory castles making the actual decisions.
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Well said
 
otisbean said:
lack of complete chemistry with our young/new receivers
Click to expand...
steelbtexan said:
DW4 and the young guys should have developed better chemistry
Click to expand...
Just speaking of this year....how many games has Watson had the top 3 WR's on the field together? The only constant is Hopkins. Fuller is always hurt (out 5 games), Stills missed three games, Coutee can't get on the field, and Mitchell (3 games, 6 targets season) and Carter (16 targets season) seem to never get any significant playing time. Hard to get "chemistry" like that, with the new guys anyway.
 
Forget about firing O'Brien this year after winning the division again, 10 wins on a tough schedule, and not one and done in the post season.
He'll be our coach for the 2020 season, and deservedly so, but the situation with the GM position is definitely in play starting right after the completion of the Texans in the P/Os.
 
austins23 said:
Just speaking of this year....how many games has Watson had the top 3 WR's on the field together? The only constant is Hopkins. Fuller is always hurt (out 5 games), Stills missed three games, Coutee can't get on the field, and Mitchell (3 games, 6 targets season) and Carter (16 targets season) seem to never get any significant playing time. Hard to get "chemistry" like that, with the new guys anyway.
Click to expand...

He has great chemistry with WFV and seems to have pretty good chemistry with Stills.
 
IDEXAN said:
Forget about firing O'Brien this year after winning the division again, 10 wins on a tough schedule, and not one and done in the post season.
He'll be our coach for the 2020 season, and deservedly so, but the situation with the GM position is definitely in play starting right after the completion of the Texans in the P/Os.
Click to expand...

Unlike most, i really don't think BoB wants the GM position, I just think he kinda got stuck with it after Cal and Easterby jumped the gun with recruiting Caserio. I expect that after this year, someone will officially be hired in that role. However, whether its Easterby or they complete the recruitment of Caserio is anyone's guess. I'd like to think Easterby has been the one pulling the trigger on alot of these moves anyway, BoB just set himself up as the target for criticism to protect him while he is in his trial phase.
 
Here is one of my pet peas when considering O'Brian coaching style. Does he have or take the time to discuss directly to Watson what he see's either positive or negative on the sidelines when drives conclude? Do Texans really have an OC other than O'Brian? What makes a great coach, that leads to success and Championships?

O'Brian does not relate well to his players personally. If a lot of people, talking to you Steelbtexan, where is accountability or blame belong in Watson's development?

I personally feel, that other than finally loading up and addressing OL, O'Brian has done little to mold or his offense around Watson's skill set. He still insists on running his offense, his way, hell or be damned, to the point Watson has to rely on his own playmaking and elite physical talent to manufacture a win from the jaws of defeat.
 
austins23 said:
Just speaking of this year....how many games has Watson had the top 3 WR's on the field together? The only constant is Hopkins. Fuller is always hurt (out 5 games), Stills missed three games, Coutee can't get on the field, and Mitchell (3 games, 6 targets season) and Carter (16 targets season) seem to never get any significant playing time. Hard to get "chemistry" like that, with the new guys anyway.
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And not just in games either. There’s not a lot of practices with the top 3. Even Nuk has been out lately.
 
austins23 said:
Because they get all the reps in practice I'm sure. As much as Fuller is out for Mitchell/Carter to only have 22 combined targets all season?
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True, But as much as WFV/Stills has been out, you would think Carter/Coutee/Mitchell/Coutee would have better chemistry. Maybe DW4 is uncomfortable throwing to the slot or in the middle of the field in general. Since DW4 got here what Slot WR has really been productive other than Coutee for a couple of games? this also could be somewhat because of play design. I think the slots really miss Welker, I know Coutee misses him.
 
beerlover said:
Here is one of my pet peas when considering O'Brian coaching style. Does he have or take the time to discuss directly to Watson what he see's either positive or negative on the sidelines when drives conclude? Do Texans really have an OC other than O'Brian? What makes a great coach, that leads to success and Championships?

O'Brian does not relate well to his players personally. If a lot of people, talking to you Steelbtexan, where is accountability or blame belong in Watson's development?

I personally feel, that other than finally loading up and addressing OL, O'Brian has done little to mold or his offense around Watson's skill set. He still insists on running his offense, his way, hell or be damned, to the point Watson has to rely on his own playmaking and elite physical talent to manufacture a win from the jaws of defeat.
Click to expand...

BOB loaded up on the OL and thought that would allow DW4 to run the offense BOB wants to run. BOB was wrong, DW4 cant throw from the pocket efficiently enough to be successful in the offense BOB wants to run. (You cant develop what's not there and this is the reason BOB/DW4 are a bad match) So now that they made the playoffs, BOB would be very smart to embrace the Run Deshaun Run offense that DW4 is most comfortable in. heck they may even make the AFCCG or a SB using this offense.
 
steelbtexan said:
True, But as much as WFV/Stills has been out, you would think Carter/Coutee/Mitchell/Coutee would have better chemistry. Maybe DW4 is uncomfortable throwing to the slot or in the middle of the field in general. Since DW4 got here what Slot WR has really been productive other than Coutee for a couple of games? this also could be somewhat because of play design. I think the slots really miss Welker, I know Coutee misses him.
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Coutee had 11 (?) receptions against the Colts in the playoff game, if I'm remembering right. Then he just went to crap. Active scratches several games this year. How can he just disappear like that?
Carter seems to have the skills to be a productive slot receiver. He's just never in the game and when he is he's just running routes. Not offering much more.
I'm not saying those guys should be getting the lions share of the targets. Maybe Watson just doesn't trust them. Coutee had that fumble and a drop or two this seaon when he was in the game.
 
austins23 said:
Coutee had 11 (?) receptions against the Colts in the playoff game, if I'm remembering right. Then he just went to crap. Active scratches several games this year. How can he just disappear like that?
Carter seems to have the skills to be a productive slot receiver. He's just never in the game and when he is he's just running routes. Not offering much more.
I'm not saying those guys should be getting the lions share of the targets. Maybe Watson just doesn't trust them. Coutee had that fumble and a drop or two this seaon when he was in the game.
Click to expand...

They need to draft WFV's replacement and another slot next draft.

Luckily this is one of the deepest WR groups I've seen coming out in the last 5 yrs. They should be able to get a very good slot in the 4th/5th rd. I really liked Renfrow coming out last yr and obviously DW4 had a connection with him.
 
TexansBull said:
First TD was scored in the third.
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The Bills dominated for 43 minutes of the game.

Yeah, technically it was the third quarter, but that first TD was with 2:09 left on the clock.

TexansBull said:
First possession in third Watson had an incomplete pass, a scramble for one yard, and then Watson was sacked.
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The Texans opening drive lasted three plays and went for negative six yards. How does that support the O'Brien makes-great-halftime-adjustments narrative? :um:

TexansBull said:
Second possession was the Hopkins fumble.
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Not directly O'Brien's fault, but certainly the lack of any offensive production for the first half+ had something to do with Nuk's attitude of trying to ignite a spark. Hopkins was pressing, trying to be a play maker, because the team was desperate.

TexansBull said:
(Then the Watt sack to hold Buffalo to a FG. Legendary. Momentum shift.)
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This had zero to do with O'Brien's adjustments, and everything to do with RAC (who the HC had thrown under the bus just weeks ago).

The fact that the anemic offensive production required a huge defensive play says a lot.

And this sparked WATSON into action, not O'Brien. You can clearly see it in the NFL Films footage where JJ was mic'd up and he was pumping up Watson to make some plays.

TexansBull said:
Third possession was a TD.

Still in the 3rd quarter. Why would someone conclude the adjustments did not happen until the 4th? The Watt sack was in the 3rd and so was the first TD.
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As mentioned above, with 2:09 left on the clock. Why did it take almost three full quarters for O'Brien's offense to wake the hell up?

Yeah, players have to execute. I get that, but let's be honest, players don't pick the schemes, don't design the game plan, don't make the halftime adjustments, and don't call the individual plays.

At some point, O'Brien and his offense need to be cohesive, to be symbiotic in nature instead of looking like Watson has to go sandlot to make something happen.

Obviously, JMO. I don't hate O'Brien, but rather just don't think he's a good fit for the talent at QB. Keep him as HC and get an OC that can further develop and maximize the potential.
 
Double Barrel said:
The Bills dominated for 43 minutes of the game.

Yeah, technically it was the third quarter, but that first TD was with 2:09 left on the clock.



The Texans opening drive lasted three plays and went for negative six yards. How does that support the O'Brien makes-great-halftime-adjustments narrative? :um:



Not directly O'Brien's fault, but certainly the lack of any offensive production for the first half+ had something to do with Nuk's attitude of trying to ignite a spark. Hopkins was pressing, trying to be a play maker, because the team was desperate.



This had zero to do with O'Brien's adjustments, and everything to do with RAC (who the HC had thrown under the bus just weeks ago).

The fact that the anemic offensive production required a huge defensive play says a lot.

And this sparked WATSON into action, not O'Brien. You can clearly see it in the NFL Films footage where JJ was mic'd up and he was pumping up Watson to make some plays.



As mentioned above, with 2:09 left on the clock. Why did it take almost three full quarters for O'Brien's offense to wake the hell up?

Yeah, players have to execute. I get that, but let's be honest, players don't pick the schemes, don't design the game plan, don't make the halftime adjustments, and don't call the individual plays.

At some point, O'Brien and his offense need to be cohesive, to be symbiotic in nature instead of looking like Watson has to go sandlot to make something happen.

Obviously, JMO. I don't hate O'Brien, but rather just don't think he's a good fit for the talent at QB. Keep him as HC and get an OC that can further develop and maximize the potential.
Click to expand...

My response to this is Run Deshaun Run
 
beerlover said:
I personally feel, that other than finally loading up and addressing OL, O'Brian has done little to mold or his offense around Watson's skill set. He still insists on running his offense, his way, hell or be damned, to the point Watson has to rely on his own playmaking and elite physical talent to manufacture a win from the jaws of defeat.
Click to expand...

BL this is what I have been saying for two years.

And its not that Watson is free from criticism , he does have a flaw or two but OB does absolutely nothing to mask those.

This offense blows chunks for 2-3 quarters a game before OB thinks …. maybe we should do something else.

When that something else has proven to work …. why the hell do you not start the game with what works instead of waiting until after halftime to make any adjustments.

They beat Buffalo on the backs of Watson and Watt. That wont be enough in KC & OB cant be a net negative or it will likely get ugly early.
 
Double Barrel said:
The Bills dominated for 43 minutes of the game.

Yeah, technically it was the third quarter, but that first TD was with 2:09 left on the clock.



The Texans opening drive lasted three plays and went for negative six yards. How does that support the O'Brien makes-great-halftime-adjustments narrative? :um:



Not directly O'Brien's fault, but certainly the lack of any offensive production for the first half+ had something to do with Nuk's attitude of trying to ignite a spark. Hopkins was pressing, trying to be a play maker, because the team was desperate.



This had zero to do with O'Brien's adjustments, and everything to do with RAC (who the HC had thrown under the bus just weeks ago).

The fact that the anemic offensive production required a huge defensive play says a lot.

And this sparked WATSON into action, not O'Brien. You can clearly see it in the NFL Films footage where JJ was mic'd up and he was pumping up Watson to make some plays.



As mentioned above, with 2:09 left on the clock. Why did it take almost three full quarters for O'Brien's offense to wake the hell up?

Yeah, players have to execute. I get that, but let's be honest, players don't pick the schemes, don't design the game plan, don't make the halftime adjustments, and don't call the individual plays.

At some point, O'Brien and his offense need to be cohesive, to be symbiotic in nature instead of looking like Watson has to go sandlot to make something happen.

Obviously, JMO. I don't hate O'Brien, but rather just don't think he's a good fit for the talent at QB. Keep him as HC and get an OC that can further develop and maximize the potential.
Click to expand...

Thank you for responding in a way we should all strive for. Maturely.

Please don’t mistake my initial post as support of OB. I was wanting to point out the “adjustments” if there were any started on the third quarter, not the fourth which we seem to be agreeing on.

I think the first drive things didn’t break their way. The second drive was an untimely and unusual turnover by Hopkins. Freak plays happen. But had this not been a turnover, they may have put it together. The third drive was an emotional lift, and they were able to put it together.

I agree Watson has to go “Sandlot Mode” to make the offense work. This falls on OB.

And it’s interesting that Watson needed some inspiration and a pep talk from JJ. Nothing wrong with that. Eventually he will learn to self motivate. He is still young and will get it as he matures and gets more experience. Going from last years loss to this years win in the playoffs will help.
 
steelbtexan said:
After a full season together this yr. DW4 and the young guys should have developed better chemistry. Not meant to be a knock at you but this is just more excuses trying to explain away DW4's issues.

Hopefully he can improve the speed he procceses info at and improve his anticipation. I think the ability to anticipate and accuracy are things a QB is born with. Processing info is something that can be improved on.

If he can improve his areas of weakness like processing info (Yes he has weaknesses JIC crowd) then he can become truly great. He's already pretty good, I mean the Houston Watson's have made it to the divisional rd with the Run Deshaun run style of play. Imagine if he learns how to anticipate throws, at that point the Houston Watson's will be SB contenders.
Click to expand...

I hear you and just to be clear, I know DW misses stuff in games. I've seen it and I get frustrated. I've seen inaccurate throws as well. The one thing I will say with regard to accuracy, yes some guys are just naturally better than others, BUT mechanics can play a major factor. I think at times DW doesn't have his feet completely set when throwing the ball and it leads to accuracy issues. This is one of the differences I see in Mahomes and DW. Mahomes has such a great arm he can get away with less than optimal mechanics. For the record Im NOT saying Mahomes has bad mechanics, just that his arm is so good he can still make great throws without having his body dialed in - see some of the no look throws for example.

I do have a feeling that the young/new receivers are at least partly affecting some of the anticipation throws, and I'm basing this off of guys like Wade Smith and Cecil Shorts discussing the time it takes to "really" get this system. I think at this point DW wants to see guys make a break in the route before throwing the ball, and because of that he misses opportunities from time to time. I'm basing my assumption on the that fact that multiple times in many different games this season he's talking with receivers after incomplete passes, often making gestures that look to me like he was expecting/wanting something different. I could certainly be wrong though.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
Otisbean, like you, I have also entertained the alternative conclusions for the apparent QB "mistakes/faults in his game"...............giving the benefit of the doubt to Watson. On the other hand, though, the ultimate results can just as easily be explained by apparent flaws in the QB's reading/processing/executing. As you have posted, time is the only factor that will give us the definitive answer as to Watson's contribution to the "problems." Meanwhile, neither "theory" of "blame" should be discounted.

Time is not necessarily on our side in that there looms the little question of a new multi-million dollar contract which is quickly creeping in. Considering that upcoming potential long-term contract, prematurely having to take one side of the argument and being right can mean that this franchise can become a "superior" power. Prematurely taking the other side of the argument and being right can mean a huge setback with probably years to recoup, not to mention the addition of those contract years lost in hoping for those needed/anticipated changes.........all the while hoping his style of play will not end in major performance-affecting injury.

With all this said, there is no doubt that honest, unbiased, open-minded analysis must now be an extremely important approach for us in our discussions........................but much more importantly for those in their ivory castles making the actual decisions.
Click to expand...

100% agree.
 
otisbean said:
I hear you and just to be clear, I know DW misses stuff in games. I've seen it and I get frustrated. I've seen inaccurate throws as well. The one thing I will say with regard to accuracy, yes some guys are just naturally better than others, BUT mechanics can play a major factor. I think at times DW doesn't have his feet completely set when throwing the ball and it leads to accuracy issues. This is one of the differences I see in Mahomes and DW. Mahomes has such a great arm he can get away with less than optimal mechanics. For the record Im NOT saying Mahomes has bad mechanics, just that his arm is so good he can still make great throws without having his body dialed in - see some of the no look throws for example.

I do have a feeling that the young/new receivers are at least partly affecting some of the anticipation throws, and I'm basing this off of guys like Wade Smith and Cecil Shorts discussing the time it takes to "really" get this system. I think at this point DW wants to see guys make a break in the route before throwing the ball, and because of that he misses opportunities from time to time. I'm basing my assumption on the that fact that multiple times in many different games this season he's talking with receivers after incomplete passes, often making gestures that look to me like he was expecting/wanting something different. I could certainly be wrong though.
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No. You are correct on his feet affecting his accuracy, Mahome's arm and the interaction with his WRs. When Watson is on, staying in the pocket and throwing darts across the field. All you have to do is watch the OL and then his feet. When he has time and making quick decisions, there is a bounce to his drop backs and his mechanics are on point.
 
Double Barrel said:
The Bills dominated for 43 minutes of the game.

Yeah, technically it was the third quarter, but that first TD was with 2:09 left on the clock.



The Texans opening drive lasted three plays and went for negative six yards. How does that support the O'Brien makes-great-halftime-adjustments narrative? :um:



Not directly O'Brien's fault, but certainly the lack of any offensive production for the first half+ had something to do with Nuk's attitude of trying to ignite a spark. Hopkins was pressing, trying to be a play maker, because the team was desperate.



This had zero to do with O'Brien's adjustments, and everything to do with RAC (who the HC had thrown under the bus just weeks ago).

The fact that the anemic offensive production required a huge defensive play says a lot.

And this sparked WATSON into action, not O'Brien. You can clearly see it in the NFL Films footage where JJ was mic'd up and he was pumping up Watson to make some plays.



As mentioned above, with 2:09 left on the clock. Why did it take almost three full quarters for O'Brien's offense to wake the hell up?

Yeah, players have to execute. I get that, but let's be honest, players don't pick the schemes, don't design the game plan, don't make the halftime adjustments, and don't call the individual plays.

At some point, O'Brien and his offense need to be cohesive, to be symbiotic in nature instead of looking like Watson has to go sandlot to make something happen.

Obviously, JMO. I don't hate O'Brien, but rather just don't think he's a good fit for the talent at QB. Keep him as HC and get an OC that can further develop and maximize the potential.
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Now this is all FACTS.

Great breakdown DB. Well said sir!
 
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Earl34 said:
No. You are correct on his feet affecting his accuracy, Mahome's arm and the interaction with his WRs. When Watson is on, staying in the pocket and throwing darts across the field. All you have to do is watch the OL and then his feet. When he has time and making quick decisions, there is a bounce to his drop backs and his mechanics are on point.
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Agreed, and also people are not factoring in the amount of hits this youngster has taken in his short career. That stuff will take its toll both mentally and physically.

Mahomes and Jackson are not going through what Watson has gone through.
 
ROO said:
You ain't kidding...

View attachment 5358
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CloakNNNdagger said:
View attachment 5359
Sometimes I just want to scream! He won't let me do what I'm really good at.............running around behind the line of scrimmage, holding the ball while I count to 8, and getting sacked........ View attachment 5360:banme
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Really the truth is somewhere between these two extremes.

Main thing is that Watson and OB just aren't a good match. Watson cant do what OB wants out of a QB and OB refuses to do what Watson excels at.
 
beerlover said:
Here is one of my pet peas when considering O'Brian coaching style. Does he have or take the time to discuss directly to Watson what he see's either positive or negative on the sidelines when drives conclude? Do Texans really have an OC other than O'Brian? What makes a great coach, that leads to success and Championships?

O'Brian does not relate well to his players personally. If a lot of people, talking to you Steelbtexan, where is accountability or blame belong in Watson's development?

I personally feel, that other than finally loading up and addressing OL, O'Brian has done little to mold or his offense around Watson's skill set. He still insists on running his offense, his way, hell or be damned, to the point Watson has to rely on his own playmaking and elite physical talent to manufacture a win from the jaws of defeat.
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And you base this on....
 
Corrosion said:
Really the truth is somewhere between these two extremes.

Main thing is that Watson and OB just aren't a good match. Watson cant do what OB wants out of a QB and OB refuses to do what Watson excels at.
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Main thing is that we can have some fun with it...

Picture100.jpg

But for real, I pray to the ghosts of SuperBowls past that Lombardi or Landry will appear in an Obrien dream and make him come to the realization that he needs to tweak his offense to help the players be successful.
 
Corrosion said:
Really the truth is somewhere between these two extremes.

Main thing is that Watson and OB just aren't a good match. Watson cant do what OB wants out of a QB and OB refuses to do what Watson excels at.
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None of the quarterbacks under this man have been able to grasp or do what OB wants. So how many quarterbacks do we have to go through?

And shoots how can any quarterback excel or do what Obrien wants when his offensive line continues to **** the bed. I mean they still can't pick up the different blitz schemes thrown at them. They're still getting dominated by only four defensive linemen.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Funniest part about the vid is that he didn't really argue against the fans' criticism of him sucking, he instead simply fired back that the fan also happens to suck.
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LMAOOOO it totally encapsulates how I perceive the man .. petty and insecure! SMH. This team better never be out of the running for 2nd chances with true talented players over moral delinquencies ever again!
 
Mollywhopper said:
Lol, also some naughty language, but mostly very lol..
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LMAO, if that kind of spirit would translate to the offensive production in the first halfs of games we would dominate. Some people can trigger quick like that but that may be part of his passion for the team. Is it professional? Probably not but was it frustration or him defending the team and not wanting his players to be subjected to hearing that and getting despondent.
 
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