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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!
- Thread starter Carr Bombed
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Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
What is your point? Of course you want a back up there but as a draftee you always look for that gem. Drafting QB’s out of the first round is always a risk. I believe we should always take that risk, however and I wish we would see more of it. Keenum was a backup then at best. So was Savage. They were both never going to solve our QB problems. Interesting that Savages best QBR as a Texan was higher than Keenums Texans best. Nothing to write home about but it is possible to see OB’s initial reason to give Savage an early shot in 2017. He wasn’t married to the idea because it wasn’t long before he replaced Savage. Up until that point Nobody knew what Savage’s potential was as a starter out of the gate. People on this forum initially had high praise for Savage and many had seen enough of Keenum. The Savage issue as a starter must be and was determined. With either guy however they were never going anywhere.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Keenum isn’t in any convo for a starting position & if he is it’s b/c where he got shipped out is just looking for a placeholder qb until they draft 1. Dude has played with like 5 teams in 5 years. He also didn’t take anyone anywhere...he rode the back of his defense, Diggs and Theilen and Diggs made him lucky.
The fact he has been unable to come close to that success since he was bounced from Minny, & didn’t have anything close to that success prior speaks volumes about his talent. He’s a back up, same as Savage..same as Hoyer...same as Fitz...same as Mallet. Get over it bro.
The more talented team won that game and it should've been expected that Luck would outplay Watson in Watson's 1st playoff game and the team was badly injured, especially compared to the Colts injury situation. But go ahead and blame that loss on BOB. You can tell you've never played a down of football in your life.
They scored 7 points and even that was a meaningless score when the game was over.
And?
I put that on O'Brien.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Fair enough, but do you put the 21 points Colts hung on us, including 14 before the stadium had even fully filled, on Crennel?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
To be fair if you look at their college resumes Keenum had a good one, I honestly don’t remember why he went undrafted because on paper he was a project but a project worth taking. Savage was a project to and a project that amounted to nothing but in 16 he actually looked pretty good before going down with an injury. Well at least he looked good compared to Osweiler.
All in all though Keenum had a much higher ceiling even in college.
Yes, why not?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Then we agree, offense sucked at putting points on the board and defense sucked at keeping points off the board.
21 points for the whole game is not bad though. Recovered after a terrible start
The Colts also took their foot off the pedal and went into eating up the clock mode more so the the Texans defense recovered after a bad start.
The Texans were thoroughly out-coached and out-played in all three facets of the game.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Don't kid yourself, the Texans defense hadn't been able to stop any quality QB all season and there is no reason to believe they would have started with Luck in the second half. If the Colts had really wanted to they could have moved the ball up and down the field at will just like they did in the first half. Also 21 points was enough to win them the game, if the Texans had scored 20 points and lost due to a missed two point conversion would you have said BoB did a good job scoring?
Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
Immediately after that game is when OB became adamant and vocal about getting taller and more aggressive at the CB position.....thus Lonnie Johnson. It will take time but I continue to see upgrades on this roster.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
"It will take time" LOL what is this year 6? Didnt OBrien take over a team that had a good amount of talent, 2 years removed from the playoffs and he completely gutted it. All for what? More mediocrity? And people here have the nerve to celebrate THAT and criticize Crennel and the defense when it has been that unit that has kept the TExans relevant during the Bill OBrien era. OBrien has flopped in every aspect of an offensive coach and he still gets the benefit of the doubt. I wonder even if a 2-14 season gets him shipped at this point with his tyrannical grip over the team. He is lauded for taking advantage of easy schedules and an inferior division, and then given patience when his playoff offense scores an average of 12.5 points per game? So the baby step in the progression is to throw a parade when he has a season above 9-7 and when he falters in the playoffs come up with some peripheral reason as to why the man keeps failing? What a joke.
No, just a crappy offense.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Lol. The defense has only been relevant b/c of the name recognition that guys JJ Watt and Clowney carry not b/c how good they’ve been. In any event BoB has managed to stick around b/c he has always been able to get the most out of what he’s had to work with on offense...which up until 2017 wasn’t much. But No one has feared the defense and hear lately the offense has been the unit catching more of the recognition b/c of Nuk and DW4.
If the defense was half as good as ya’ll pump them up to be, Getting beat by a Blaine Gabbert led depleted Titans team doesn’t happen under any circumstances.
Porky
Hall of Fame
I agree. Another decade or two and we'll be right there!
Porky
Hall of Fame
This!
Working with RS for 5 of those 6 yrs had nothing to do with the mediocrity, just like it had nothing to do with Kubes mediocrity.
Just like the 1st yr RS is gone and the team has its 2nd best regular season in franchise history. You can say RS got the players BOB wanted. But why is it Gaine seemed to improve areas of weakness in 1 yr that had been neglected for 2 regimes? Did BOB suddenly get better at expressing the kinds of players he wanted or was Gaine just that much of an upgrade despite not having a pick until the 3rd rd? Before you answer you might want to go back and check out RS draft history under both BOB/Kubes in the 3rd rd.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Defensive rankings per year PPG/YPG
2014 7th PPG (19.2) - 16th yards (348)
2015 7the PPG (19.6) - 3rd yards (310)
2016 11th PPG (20.5) - 1st yards (301)
2017 32nd PPG (27.2) - 20th yards (346.6) = I'll give you one shot to guess what happened this year.
2018 4th PPG (19.8) - 12th yards (343)
You want to list your offensive rankings for the same years for your coach? Makes me cringe I'd avoid it at all costs if I were yall.
Next excuse? Rick Smith?
Gaine improved the areas of weakness?
Are we sure about that?
OL and RB still look atrocious. TEs are still a question mark.
Our strongest offensive players(Hopkins, Watson and Fuller) were drafted under Rick Smith.
Painful to read that. We've wasted a good defense. With just an average offense the team could have made noise
I would say he improved long time sore spots at S and ST's and did that without a 1st/2nd rd picks.
This draft it looks like Gaine drafted a couple of good OG prospects and another good TE prospect. I'm still very high on Jordan Thomas too.
Ok but he's working with Crennel. The defense has been pretty solid going back to the wade Phillips days. It's easier when you are working with a coach who had a real system and can evaluate talent.
As far as the draft, it looks promising but so did Rankin last year. I haven't heard anything on Jordan Thomas this camp.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
You guys keep pointing to ranking as if it has meant anything over the last 5 years. those rankings in the face of their actual performance illustrate 1 thing:...that they’ve been paper tigers against any qb that’s competent and that they can’t stop a nosebleed when it matters.
The garbage can of QBs they faced last year, they should’ve been ranked #1.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
LOL but weren't you one of the main instigators of the "we won 11 in a row" .. "bad coaches dont win that many" .. etc.. etc..??? How many of the wins last year can you attribute directly to the defense? Offense? I remember being lucky for a few games in that opposing coaches had some brain farts of their own leading to Texan wins .. not because of what OBrien did.
Playoff game is the latest body of evidence and the Texans gave up 21 points. REgardless of how and when they were scored- that is all that was given up. Defense didnt allow another score after the 6th minute of the 2nd QUARTER!!! THE offense COULD NOT GET ANYTHING GOING for what? 39 minutes of the game .. NOTHING! Again another Bill OBrien playoff team comes out underprepared and humiliated by ANOTHER rookie head coach. You mentioned the Titan game and Blaine Gabbert, how bad did that game look for OBrien? He was outcoached by his protege Vrabel, embarrassed with the fake punt! SMH. Now instead of accepting the factual #s regarding this defense you feel is below average and irrelevant, you want to go back to the common rhetorical arguments regarding what your eyes have seen. Typical.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The stats bear out that this defense is a paper tiger and really always has been. All u have to do is ring up the stats for any qb they’ve face over the last 2-4 years that made the nfl top 100. Shits not pretty.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Lol, literally 1, the buffalo game..& really they saved themselves b/c after they gave up the lead in the 4th to F*(&-ing NATHAN PETERMAN, they bailed themselves out with J-Jo's pick 6.
Now, lets count how many times the offense came to the rescue of this supposedly vaunted defense & regained the lead late after the defense gave it up.
Washington - after the defense gave it up late to yet another back up qb in Colt McCoy, the offense ON THE VERY NEXT DRIVE went right back down the field & took a ton of time off the clock. No, they didn't score a TD, but they got the lead back. The offense subsequently did the same thing the next time they had the ball but the FG was blocked.
Virtually the SAME EXACT SCENARIO played out against the Jets. Jets went up late in the 4th 19 -22, offense put a drive together that resulted in a TD to Nuk...this is when he hurt his ankle. Our "vaunted" defense started getting cut up by a rookie qb late in that game...
Now lets look at the games the defense just flat out sucked or wasn't nearly as good as their ranking would indicate:
New England..down 21 pts before the 1st half was even done...no elaboration needed.
Giants... "Only" gave up 27 pts but Eli/Beckham/Barkley ate them alive & they couldn't stop them to save their lives.
Colts 1st game: gave up 34 total pts...28 in the 2nd half & couldn't stop the Colts at all in the 2nd half. Offense took advantage of Reich's mistake & took it in for the FG win to escape.
Dallas - Defense once again gave up the lead to late in the 4th to Dak...fortunately, it only tied the game.
Colts 2nd game: Only gave up 24 pts...but couldn't stop the Colts pretty much all game....Clowney jumped offsides didn't even give the offense a chance to get the ball back for a possible game winning drive.
Philly game...Offense came back & took the lead late...Defense blew it in the end...also gave up 30+ pts.
Colts playoff game....They let a hobbled TY Hilton & off-brand WR's cut them up...gave up 21 pts damn near in the 1st qtr...& your telling ducktales...the absolute only reason it wasn't more is b/c they took their peddle off the gas...not b/c the defense found their footing.
Now, lets look at the games where the defense actually dominated & played up to this ranking ya'll love throwing out there.
Jax x 2.....Blake Bortles/Cody Kessler..nuff said...Both offense & defense played well.
Miami.......Brock Osweiler...nuff said...Both offense & defense played well.
2nd Tenn game......Mariota...nuff said...Both offense & defense played well.
THEY WERE/ARE PAPER TIGERS....UNTIL they prove they can limit a qb worth a damn. & they will have every opportunity to do this next year.
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Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
Same old crap. OB drafted all the bad ones. The good ones of course was RS. Can’t have it both ways. Fact: this roster/organization started to turn around last year...clearly RS and OB were at odds. What happened? Upgraded weight room, new strength coach, CRV, new ST coach, vastly improved and improving ST’s, upgraded TE position, could be a strength this year, valid backup QB, great new QB coach that has coached DW’s style, new OC many say will be a HC some day, “new” owner setting a high bar for accountability, new vision for CB’s...out with the old, in with the new. Seattle style, right? Taller more physical CB’s. S position finally, after years upgraded, no more UDFA E Pleasant types. You see same old negativity even in the face of good reports coming out of GB. This rebuild is only in its second years after years wasted under a GM that produced a losing record despite being gifted a TEN year reprieve. Just getting started for real, finally.
I'm not saying OB shouldnt get credit or didn't have input. Just that Rick was here when those guys were drafted. (except no credit to OB for Hopkins who was drafted under Kubiak).
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Washington game came down to a gaffe by the WAS coach, nothing that OBrien/Offense did that made Gruden go for the win late in the game with possession of the ball. LUCK
New England - the "not my job" game great example
Giants - **** game for everyone
DAL - Mr Offense OBrien runs Watson on an outside QB run to the tune of broken ribs and a hobbled QB. Defense played well on the road in front of national audience.
colts 1st game - only won because Frank Reich has a set of steel balls and goes for wins, not for ties like somebody else you seem so fond of
Philly game - had a chance to solidify the playoff picture with a win, but folded late on the road.
Colts playoff game - 21 points - no points allowed past the 6th minute of 2nd quarter. 39 minutes of horrible offensive football to get embarrassed at home to a division rival.
Remember last year when the easy schedule argument was thrown out? What was the uproar? "arrrghhh we can only play whoever they schedule us to play arrghh" so NOW its convenient to pump up that easy schedule aspect right? Hedge your argument by saying "nobody is saying the offense is elite, blah blah blah" .. well in the same vein nobody is saying the defense is elite either, my statement was that they were what kept this franchise RELEVANT while OBrien figured out how else he could fk up the team. I'll hold on to my TANGIBLE statistical data that says THE HOUSTON TEXAN OFFENSE IS ABYSMAL AND THE HOUSTON TEXAN DEFENSE IS ABOVE AVERAGE.
Only you seem to be arguing in absolutes in order to make it seem like you have a leg to stand on. The head coach is responsible for ALL ASPECTS of a team, and if this "**** defense theory" is what gets him shitcanned, then we have the worst defense in all of football history.
austins23
Hall of Fame
Home game...
Yes, this was horrible. Kept trying to put the square peg in the round hole.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
my mistake .. home game.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Heck yeah that goes against Crennel and that entire defense.
Why do yall play this card every time someone puts any type of blame on Obrien. He's the head coach, the captain of that ship. Again his team did not show up in the playoffs. They all came out very lethargic and uninspired. Terrible freaking look for the entire TEAM as a whole.
Texansballer74
The Marine
You can best believe these people truly believe the Colts took their foots off the gas. Highly doubt that.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Its not a matter of "playing this card", some on here have been praising Crennel and the defense almost as if they could do no wrong while blaming the offense for every problem the team has. I agree that at the end of the day BoB is the HC and the buck stops with him with lets not pretend that Crennel is carrying this team. I get tired of some people acting like its two different teams, the defense couldn't stop any QB worth a damn and the offense couldn't put needed points on the board.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Yes I do believe that, why because every QB we played against that was any good at all moved up and down the field at will and that includes Luck. Then all of a sudden in the second half of the first playoff game the defense suddenly figures out how to stop a top shelf QB and they did it by......changing absolutely nothing about how they were playing. So yes I fully believe the Colts took their foot off the gas, if the offense had been able to make it a one touchdown game at any point I believe you would have seen them turn it up again.
Maybe they did because there is almost a zero chance an O'Brien offense can score 21 points in a playoff game, much less a half.
But that really isn't a big lead usually. With Andrew Luck doesnt make much sense to take the foot off the gas with only a 3 score lead and facing Deshaun Watson.
I don't think the defense can do no wrong. The secondary was a real weakness. But it was a top 10 defense and should get credit for that.
Texansballer74
The Marine
No team will take their foots off the gas after a quarter and half. Come on dude. There are too many examples of historical comebacks when teams decides to take their foot off the gas. Especially in the playoffs against a divisional foe lol.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Texans had no interceptions in the second half and no sacks in the whole game, but sure they held and the Colts were going all out through the whole game. You go with that theory.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Lol Are you dense?
It wasn't Luck, the defense gave up the lead late to a back up qb & the offense came back & reclaimed it on the next damn drive that not only put pts on the board, it ate up like 8 minutes of clock. WTF are you talking about "gaffe" by Gruden & what does that have to do with our supposed vaunted defense getting kicked in the nads by Colt McCoy Lol.
No buddy, that's you & your brigade who like to try to separate the defense from the offense.......Like the defense performed all that much better b/c a stat tells you so. The rank may say they're top 10, but that's all it says b/c when its nut cutting time, they fold up like a lawn chair. See the problem here is, us being labeled as BoB lovers can freely admit the offense hasn't been good...you guys however can't admit that the defense has been a paper tiger. Good against scrubs, not so good against real qbs. I 100% agree that he is responsible for all aspects of the team...which is why when you and others try to separate out the wins & put all the good about this team towards the defense, i remind you of that.
Didn't TY show up with a clown mask on mocking J-Jo & then went out there & lit him up on the 1st damn drive?
You keep on believing in your precious stat, & i'll keep laughing at you & the other clowns who call in on the radio giving them a pass..
It wasn't Luck, the defense gave up the lead late to a back up qb & the offense came back & reclaimed it on the next damn drive that not only put pts on the board, it ate up like 8 minutes of clock. WTF are you talking about "gaffe" by Gruden & what does that have to do with our supposed vaunted defense getting kicked in the nads by Colt McCoy Lol.
What does any of this have to do with our supposed good/great defense getting wrecked?
No buddy, that's you & your brigade who like to try to separate the defense from the offense.......Like the defense performed all that much better b/c a stat tells you so. The rank may say they're top 10, but that's all it says b/c when its nut cutting time, they fold up like a lawn chair. See the problem here is, us being labeled as BoB lovers can freely admit the offense hasn't been good...you guys however can't admit that the defense has been a paper tiger. Good against scrubs, not so good against real qbs. I 100% agree that he is responsible for all aspects of the team...which is why when you and others try to separate out the wins & put all the good about this team towards the defense, i remind you of that.
Defense was out there getting embarrassed too...
Didn't TY show up with a clown mask on mocking J-Jo & then went out there & lit him up on the 1st damn drive?You keep on believing in your precious stat, & i'll keep laughing at you & the other clowns who call in on the radio giving them a pass..
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Very true...to a point. but if we're being honest here, most HC's and playcallers in general get conservative when they go up by a certain amount...& if you just look at how Reich called that game, he CLEARLY went conservative when they went up 21. He called way more run plays after that..Mack had 100+ yds on the ground if i remember correctly.
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