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DW4 Traded to Cleveland

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Smile..no actually I have no problem with you or Cloak nnn Dagger as you post information as you see it rather than just run off at the gums..

I do have issue with some who State their opinion as facts not to be questioned.

Doc and I have discussed and disagreed (on some things but few) in personal conversations. I will always respect him and hope he will say the same thing about me. Unlike some on board who think disagreement has to be insulting.
Some posters are overly sensitive and resort to passive aggressive posts like this when they are losing a debate, or they are questioned about whether football things or life things or more important to them.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
I would not only be surprised

I would have to find a new team to root for.
I don't think the intent would be for him to actually play, but rather to force his hand on waving the no trade clause, or at least being more flexible.

I have no doubt that the Texans do not want him on the field in their uniform any more than he does. But just as Watson has leverage with his contract, so do the Texans.
 

djohn2oo8

All Pro
I don't think the intent would be for him to actually play, but rather to force his hand on waving the no trade clause, or at least being more flexible.

I have no doubt that the Texans do not want him on the field in their uniform any more than he does. But just as Watson has leverage with his contract, so do the Texans.
True. It’s still not a risk you want to take to even have him on the field.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
Example:

Why did the Chiefs score only 3 points in the second half?

Why did they score only 6 points in the first half?
Easy, a very well prepared Bucs team. They had Mahomes covered by a LB or DB the whole game. It wasn't obvious but if you watch film you will see one of the two near the line and only move after they see the ball move. It looks like a full game spy. Mahomes felt that as he was hit and sacked multiple times. And each time the same play who had stayed in the box was right on him or next to the pile.

So if we are asking and saying pressure was an issue for Watson. Yes, it was. Watson also while good throwing on the run, is not great throwing in a certain direction on the run (% drops multiple points). I don’t recall if it's left or right. I think it is rolling left he becomes average. Also, Watson getting hit 100% didn't help him. I don’t like the guy but it's a known problem area and getting hit helps nobody.
 

Double Barrel

Clown Hunter
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Florio is just waiting to post the Texans are dumbest franchise in league article he wrote 6 months ago. He is just waiting to fill in the trade details and say the Texans could have got a better deal from ----, there is zero objective "reporting" in his handling of a story.
Yep. I get that vibe from many of the national reporters, as well. It seems like every Watson story is ignoring the elephant in the room. This is unprecedented in many ways, so I'm just not sure that modern media entertainers are mentally or professionally equipped to be actual investigative reporters. This is one of the primary reasons why NFL Network has become something I just avoid. It's too personality driven. It's like eating whipped cream for dinner.

Is Glazer in the know? Or just more talk?

It depends on who you ask. John McClain, for what it's worth, says Glazer is full of it and is being used by other teams. The Texans are not leaking any details. McClain claims this is a low-hanging-fruit story that lacks any sort of accountability, so these national media figures can pretty much just make things up or 'report' unsubstantiated takes.
 

Texansphan

Hall of Fame
Florio is just waiting to post the Texans are dumbest franchise in league article he wrote 6 months ago. He is just waiting to fill in the trade details and say the Texans could have got a better deal from ----, there is zero objective "reporting" in his handling of a story.
It's fashionable to trash talk the Texans.
It must get them more clicks or approval ratings.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Hearing rumblings that Miami is pushing for a trade next week or the next. Caserio is trying to delay it as long as possible to reduce the draft pick slot impact (# of games MIA wins due to Watson). Miami still trying to get significant conditional protection, Nick pushing against that.

Certainly, it could easily all fall through, but naturally the rumblings have heated up with Tua on IR.

Of note, if he’s traded in season he most likely goes on Exempt List. No need for CEL now because Texans don’t plan to play him, but acquiring team would play him so Commissioner would have to step in.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
Hearing rumblings that Miami is pushing for a trade next week or the next. Caserio is trying to delay it as long as possible to reduce the draft pick slot impact (# of games MIA wins due to Watson). Miami still trying to get significant conditional protection, Nick pushing against that.

Certainly, it could easily all fall through, but naturally the rumblings have heated up with Tua on IR.

Of note, if he’s traded in season he most likely goes on Exempt List. No need for CEL now because Texans don’t plan to play him, but acquiring team would play him so Commissioner would have to step in.
Thanks for the info. I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened. He said Miami was his first choice and according to reports the Texans are lowering their price a little. Maybe 2 not 3 1st round picks and I have heard maybe still 3 1st rounds but less lower (3rds) will be what the price is. And I have also been hearing a "prenuptial" is being requested to cover the potential legal issues.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Hearing rumblings that Miami is pushing for a trade next week or the next. Caserio is trying to delay it as long as possible to reduce the draft pick slot impact (# of games MIA wins due to Watson). Miami still trying to get significant conditional protection, Nick pushing against that.

Certainly, it could easily all fall through, but naturally the rumblings have heated up with Tua on IR.

Of note, if he’s traded in season he most likely goes on Exempt List. No need for CEL now because Texans don’t plan to play him, but acquiring team would play him so Commissioner would have to step in.
If you can get the trade without giving the Dolphins conditional protection then he should do it. Whether the first round pick is the 13, 16, or 24 matters, but isn’t as important as getting the compensation it self. Watson has a good chance of missing considerable time if not playing at all again. As long as the conditional protection don’t mess with the firsts I am good to go.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Thanks for the info. I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened. He said Miami was his first choice and according to reports the Texans are lowering their price a little. Maybe 2 not 3 1st round picks and I have heard maybe still 3 1st rounds but less lower (3rds) will be what the price is. And I have also been hearing a "prenuptial" is being requested to cover the potential legal issues.
What is the pre-nuptial trying to accomplish? I don’t follow.
 

Double Barrel

Clown Hunter
Staff member
Contributor's Club
What is the pre-nuptial trying to accomplish? I don’t follow.
I would assume it pertains to conditional picks, but SnakeEyes can clarify what he means if not.

If I'm Caserio, I'm waiting until the off-season if conditional picks are involved. Teams are basically making the Texans assume the risk. Of course, Texans owners might want out asap under any circumstance, so who knows what's going on behind closed doors on Kirby.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
If I'm Caserio, I'm waiting until the off-season if conditional picks are involved. Teams are basically making the Texans assume the risk.
If I’m Caserio & I think the guy is going to jail I’m taking conditional picks, the 1st round picks. But I want an unconditional third at least one stud like Howard from Miami, & a guy like Jacob Martin a couple years back.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
If I’m Caserio & I think the guy is going to jail I’m taking conditional picks, the 1st round picks. But I want an unconditional third at least one stud like Howard from Miami, & a guy like Jacob Martin a couple years back.
Are you saying that you would accept 1st round picks if the conditional terms say that if he goes to jail, the Dolphins can lessen or bow out giving of the 1st round part of the deal?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Yep. I get that vibe from many of the national reporters, as well. It seems like every Watson story is ignoring the elephant in the room. This is unprecedented in many ways, so I'm just not sure that modern media entertainers are mentally or professionally equipped to be actual investigative reporters. This is one of the primary reasons why NFL Network has become something I just avoid. It's too personality driven. It's like eating whipped cream for dinner.



It depends on who you ask. John McClain, for what it's worth, says Glazer is full of it and is being used by other teams. The Texans are not leaking any details. McClain claims this is a low-hanging-fruit story that lacks any sort of accountability, so these national media figures can pretty much just make things up or 'report' unsubstantiated takes.
So now John McClain is the true source of Insider information on the Houston Texans? I thought everybody here despised and ridiculed him.
 
I would assume it pertains to conditional picks, but SnakeEyes can clarify what he means if not.

If I'm Caserio, I'm waiting until the off-season if conditional picks are involved. Teams are basically making the Texans assume the risk. Of course, Texans owners might want out asap under any circumstance, so who knows what's going on behind closed doors on Kirby.
I'm worried that if the off-season comes around, interested teams may want to call the Texans bluff. This year the Texans can hold fast because his salary is $10.5M, but in 2022 it jumps to $35M. The Texans' ownership do not want him on the team (IMO) nor does he want to be here, if teams low ball do you think the Texans will keep him on the bench next year if his legal issues are not resolved?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
What spot Miami places this year has nothing to do with the first round pick in the 2022 draft as that pick is dependent on the placement of the San Francisco 49ers; projections 1.27.

Agreeing to conditions that the round one becomes a round two is something I would not agree to. Miami is after a 10 year player so pay for him.

Why should commish put DW on CEL if Dolphins play him? Just suspend him so no salary involved.
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
but in 2022 it jumps to $35M.
Is that accurate? Holy sh*t.

No one is paying any player that much not to play. To me, that changes the dynamics if a trade doesn't happen till the off-season (which I initially preferred.) Maybe some of the cap affecinados can weigh in if I'm wrong ,but that just seems monstrous.

We're hoping teams will get desperate as games go on with injuries and poor performance before the trade deadline. They're hoping to wait us out. We won't have leverage with that kinda salary looming, some kind of nfl suspension, and a potential guilty charge.

I think the long game favors the rest of the league. Orchestrating a fair trade for all parties with so many unknowns would be awfully hard to do.

I know it's an f'ed up thing to say but we should probably be rooting for the turf monster to take down as many nfl qb's as possible right now.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
...if he’s traded in season he most likely goes on Exempt List. No need for CEL now because Texans don’t plan to play him, but acquiring team would play him so Commissioner would have to step in.
...Why should commish put DW on CEL if Dolphins play him? Just suspend him so no salary involved.
I disagree that if an in season trade is made, Watson will not be suspended or placed on the exempt list. Whichever team is making the trade will have gotten assurances from Goodell. The very nature of such a trade is to have Watson finish out the season. If this is not assured by Goodell, why trade?
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
Why should commish put DW on CEL if Dolphins play him? Just suspend him so no salary involved.
How fair is that? No play and suspension for us so we pay. He goes elsewhere, gets the suspension and they don't pay. That would be awfully messed up.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Is that accurate? Holy sh*t.

No one is paying any player that much not to play. To me, that changes the dynamics if a trade doesn't happen till the off-season (which I initially preferred.) Maybe some of the cap affecinados can weigh in if I'm wrong ,but that just seems monstrous.

We're hoping teams will get desperate as games go on with injuries and poor performance before the trade deadline. They're hoping to wait us out. We won't have leverage with that kinda salary looming, some kind of nfl suspension, and a potential guilty charge.

I think the long game favors the rest of the league. Orchestrating a fair trade for all parties with so many unknowns would be awfully hard to do.

I know it's an f'ed up thing to say but we should probably be rooting for the turf monster to take down as many nfl qb's as possible right now.
What no one is talking about in the media is the very nature of the circumstances. The system is moving too slowly to keep Watson from playing this current season. Next season, fall and winter 2022, this cannot be assumed at the time of the draft next April. With depositions being concluded in February or March, legal proceedings will then move forward with unknown outcomes.

If Goodell would offer assurances that his office will not interfere, the time is now for a trade that could impact this season's races.

Next year is next year.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I disagree that if an in season trade is made, Watson will not be suspended or placed on the exempt list. Whichever team is making the trade will have gotten assurances from Goodell. The very nature of such a trade is to have Watson finish out the season. If this is not assured by Goodell, why trade?
I can see dolphins getting info from NFL that DW could play immediately but they can also play long game IF no salary paid due to suspension.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
And in exchange for each 1st rd pick we lose what are you willing to take? 2 &3?
I don't know. The more I think about it teams would want to protect their 1st round pick from Watson not being able to play in 2022, but would have to give up that pick in April, so I don't really know how it would work.

If I'm the desperate team giving such a trade thought, I'd give up my #1 pick in 2022 to get Watson in 2021.

But if he doesn't play for me in 2022, because of these issues, I'd want it back in 2023.
 
A trade at this point makes zero sense unless the acquiring team gets just massive protection. It’s very likely that Watson doesn’t play a down this year no matter where he ends up and if he us ultimately indicted you can’t have any guarantees he plays next season (or beyond).
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
I can see dolphins getting info from NFL that DW could play immediately but they can also play long game IF no salary paid due to suspension.
Definitely, after any legal proceedings come down, then I agree at that time a suspension is called for. The Dolphins would then have his rights after everything is settled and Watson is free to resume play.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
I don't know. The more I think about it teams would want to protect their 1st round pick from Watson not being able to play in 2022, but would have to give up that pick in April, so I don't really know how it would work.

If I'm the desperate team giving such a trade thought, I'd give up my #1 pick in 2022 to get Watson in 2021.

But if he doesn't play for me in 2022, because of these issues, I'd want it back in 2023.
But then, if everything is cleared up and he's free to play in 2023 and beyond, what then, if the Texans have to give back the 1 in April 2023 for not playing in 2022?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
What no one is talking about in the media is the very nature of the circumstances. The system is moving too slowly to keep Watson from playing this current season. Next season, fall and winter 2022, this cannot be assumed at the time of the draft next April. With depositions being concluded in February or March, legal proceedings will then move forward with unknown outcomes.

If Goodell would offer assurances that his office will not interfere, the time is now for a trade that could impact this season's races.

Next year is next year.
Dolphins should win over Colts and then with DW they stand a chance vs Bucs. I think they could go at least 11 and 6 division champs. Ross knows this and needs to quit dilly dallying. Leave that to Jilly.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
For an in season trade, there has to be a "pay to play" cost for Watson to finish out the 2021 season. This has to be at least a #1 at a minimum. Then additional picks put off until 2023 or 2024, contingent on his playing status after the legal issues are decided.
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
I don't know. The more I think about it teams would want to protect their 1st round pick from Watson not being able to play in 2022, but would have to give up that pick in April, so I don't really know how it would work.

If I'm the desperate team giving such a trade thought, I'd give up my #1 pick in 2022 to get Watson in 2021.

But if he doesn't play for me in 2022, because of these issues, I'd want it back in 2023.
Interesting. Imo any conditional picks should be based on availability alone and not performance. I'm not a fan of a "poison pill" trade where we'd have to give something back. I'd rather drop the 1 to a 2nd round pick in 22 and a 2nd round pick in 23 for instance.

I am fairly certain whatever current physical players we get will all have overvalued contracts to compensate for dw's. We won't get guys on rookie contracts. We'll get a guy or 2 on the downside of their career.
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
I can see dolphins getting info from NFL that DW could play immediately but they can also play long game IF no salary paid due to suspension.
I really don’t believe the NFL will allow him to play with all of that legal stuff hanging over his head. That will not be a good look for them. I believe if they would’ve given the Texans thumbs up, they would have traded him by now.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I really don’t believe the NFL will allow him to play with all of that legal stuff hanging over his head.
Then there won't be a trade.

I can't imagine a team even making an offer without getting some clarification from the league about Watson & the CEL.

Even though the NFL already put out a statement saying they have no reason to put him on the CEL, I'd want a clearer answer before I make an offer.
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
Then there won't be a trade.

I can't imagine a team even making an offer without getting some clarification from the league about Watson & the CEL.

Even though the NFL already put out a statement saying they have no reason to put him on the CEL, I'd want a clearer answer before I make an offer.
I think MAYBE trade talks have spiked because they have answered potential trade partners on what they'd do.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Then there won't be a trade.

I can't imagine a team even making an offer without getting some clarification from the league about Watson & the CEL.

Even though the NFL already put out a statement saying they have no reason to put him on the CEL, I'd want a clearer answer before I make an offer.
There isn't another Kyle somewhere in the league?:hides:
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I would be surprised if Xavian Howard and Tua are not part of an offer. Cap space now is less than $2 million and could increase by $14 by trading X and another $2 by trading Tua. DW will cost them $10.5. X will cost Houston $12 and Tua less than a million.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Then there won't be a trade.

I can't imagine a team even making an offer without getting some clarification from the league about Watson & the CEL.

Even though the NFL already put out a statement saying they have no reason to put him on the CEL, I'd want a clearer answer before I make an offer.
Did the NFL say that before Texans made him a weekly healthy scratch? I do not remember but I think so.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Yep. I get that vibe from many of the national reporters, as well. It seems like every Watson story is ignoring the elephant in the room. This is unprecedented in many ways, so I'm just not sure that modern media entertainers are mentally or professionally equipped to be actual investigative reporters. This is one of the primary reasons why NFL Network has become something I just avoid. It's too personality driven. It's like eating whipped cream for dinner.



It depends on who you ask. John McClain, for what it's worth, says Glazer is full of it and is being used by other teams. The Texans are not leaking any details. McClain claims this is a low-hanging-fruit story that lacks any sort of accountability, so these national media figures can pretty much just make things up or 'report' unsubstantiated takes.
McClain was on the search committee, he should know.
 

paycheck71

Hall of Fame
I really don’t believe the NFL will allow him to play with all of that legal stuff hanging over his head. That will not be a good look for them. I believe if they would’ve given the Texans thumbs up, they would have traded him by now.
I think there is a great likelihood that if the Texans or another team actually try to put him on the field it would force the NFL to act.
Why? The NFL made it a point to voice their opinion before the first regular season game that they don't have any reason to act on the DW situation (CEL or suspension). Nothing has changed since then.
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
Why? The NFL made it a point to voice their opinion before the first regular season game that they don't have any reason to act on the DW situation (CEL or suspension). Nothing has changed since then.

Really? How did they voice their opinion?
 

paycheck71

Hall of Fame
Really? How did they voice their opinion?
OK, it might have been before the camp, but still, nothing has changed...


"The NFL's review of the serious allegations against Deshaun Watson remains ongoing and active," the NFL said in a statement. "We are working cooperatively with the Houston Police Department and ensuring that the NFL's inquiry does not interfere with their investigation.

"As we continue to gather additional information and monitor law enforcement developments, we will make appropriate decisions consistent with the Collective Bargaining Agreement and the Personal Conduct Policy.

"At this time, there are no restrictions on Watson's participation in club activities."
 


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