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Dump O'Brien. The offense is on him.
- Thread starter TripleTap
- Start date
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I watched the Steelers win a SB with a terrible Oline. Packers and Patriots both have had great seasons with bad Olines. It takes a top tier type of QB to overcome that, and very few can do it.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Man, what is with this utter confusion that OB is the GM?
I mean, I don't know dumb some of these complaints can be?
Rick just gets the guys the coaches want
Note that the same type of stupid moves aren't being made on the defensive side of the ball. Because Crennel runs that side.
You use Fuller to take the top off of the defense and open up the short/intermediate routes. In hindsight, putting Ervin or Hunt out wide from the backfield would've enhanced that. That's a staple for NEs offense. They did that a lot in the 2nd half of SB LI. A safety knowing he had to cover Hunt or Ervin would be as nervous as a Chihuahua shatting a peach seed. That's creativity and playing to a team's strength, assuming Hunt and/or Ervin has shown the ability to run routes and catch the ball.
Kind of thinking out loud here, but maybe OB is so conscious of the "do your job" and "execute to perfection" mantra that BB and TB exude that he will pass on his gut instinct and go for a play that was more successful in practice. I dunno. I do know that RT is still a major issue (fingers crossed on Allen) and until that position is shored up, everything is in question.
& many of us had issue with that. He wasn't hired to be OC.
I think OB is making a mistake trying to prove something. I think k he was coming along fine as a HC. To me, this is taking a step back. There were a couple of nice OC candidates out there this season, he should have grabbed one. Teach him our system or go with a new system. This is a situation where I think we're putting too much focus on "the system" as opposed to coaches coaching.
I'm with you on the bolded. In another conversation on this subject - some time back - I threw out the name of Charlie Weis. Weis was OC to Belichick from 2000 - 2004 and pretty much installed the offensive system they still use today (and the one O'Brien is trying to teach here). Did I mention they won three Superb Owl trophies when he was their OC? Yeah, he was a flop as a head coach at ND and Kansas but I'd bet he still knows how to call a pro game as an OC.
It would be worth a shot. He's got to be better than Godsey was.
banned1976
sleeper mode
But O'Brien had nothing to do with letting Brooks and Jones go. The FO didn't want to pay them so off they went. You understand that, right?
I'm now convinced that arguing with people who hate O'Brien is a futile endeavor and you guys will blame him for absolutely everything now a days.
banned1976
sleeper mode
Maybe with him focusing on being OC and letting Crennel take a little more responsibility in game day managing is going to help him out? We'll find out. I happen to like the idea.
I seriously doubt the FO would make that decision for the coaches. He would probably tell them the cap situation and whether someone like Brock would still be affordable
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LOL.. when has arguing about anything on any message board not been a futile endeavor?
And it's the offseason. Strike two.
Have they fired O'Brien yet? No?
Strike three. Full stop.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I am hopeful that a slightly better than average OLine and QB will get us to SB if not win it.
banned1976
sleeper mode
Right. It's the offseason. How has O'Brien screwed up since January 14th? People are pulling **** out of thin air. Complain all you want, I'm fine with that. But people are making stuff up, like O'Brien is in charge of all personnel decisions, who comes and who goes. It's simply not true. He's in charge of who plays and who doesn't.
Nope, he said Rick doesn't get him and the coaches players they don't want
Rick just gets the guys the coaches want. This has been true since the Kubiak days
Texansballer74
The Marine
Hahaha if you are not in that war room with these coaches, Rick Smith and staff. Well sir you are doing exactly what you're claiming others of doing. "PULL **** OUT OF THIN AIR".
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Indeed, that quote's been reported repeatedly. That's a big difference from quoting that Rick gets him the players he wants.........which O'Brien has never been quoted to say.
In my view, that's essentially what he was saying.
He also said that they've never had a disagreement that they've had to take to McNair.
This idea that Rick is picking the players and overruling O'Brien. Where does it come from? Rick never has picked the players
If O'Brien says "I want Tom Brady", can Rick Smith do it? No way.
Regarding the draft, it's similar.
If you don't have 1.1, it's hard to get the top guy you want.
If you want to make a big trade like the one that landed RGIII, you'd better have the owner's blessing.
In this piece here, it sure sounds like O'Brien wanted both Savage and Watson anyway.
http://www.scout.com/nfl/texans/story/1786743-bill-o-brien-has-two-of-his-own-qbs
banned1976
sleeper mode
Nobody is saying Rick is overruling O'Brien. What I've said is that Rick is in charge of the scouting department. O'Brien has to rely on him to give him information on players, both in Free Agency and the draft. It's silly to think O'Brien is "buying all the groceries" to borrow from Parcels.
I've said over and over again, if this O'Brien/Smith experiment fails both should be fired. I don't know how much fairer I can be or clearer. Neither Smith nor O'Brien are working unilaterally. But O'Brien has more say on the 53 and Smith has more say (because it's his damned job) in the pool of personnel O'Brien can choose from. Now if you and Texanballer believe Smith is just a bystander, tell me why he's even here? I know the reason IF it's true.
I'm sorry, I wish I had never dived back into this debate. I have called out both men when I feel like they f'd up. But some of you just want to blame one or the other. Last I remembered it's a team sport. That goes for the entire org.
banned1976
sleeper mode
Go back and reread my quote. Do you believe O'Brien is making ALL personnel decisions? Because that's what I wrote. And that's what the O'Brien haters believe.
To be clear, I'm not defending Rick and he should be gone too. I'm just tired of the excuses for O'Brien. I agree they're both responsible
Texansballer74
The Marine
Both Rick and O'Brien have said on multiple occasions that the decisions are made collectively. So why do you guys still try to decipher it as any other way. Or question what both these men have stated. My thing is if none of us are in that war room why are we steady spreading our narrative around here.
banned1976
sleeper mode
So then we should all shut up. Fine with me. No complaining. About anyone. Including O'Brien.
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They both should be fired.
I dont believe Os was an O'Brien pick.
I dont believe Watson was an O'Brien pick.
I will repeat that if the Watson pick doesn't workout they both should be fired and start back at square #1. It's not fair but sometimes life isn't fair.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
We should have fired them and hired Little Shanny. JMO. I don't like our "complicated" offense that doesn't work. I liked our "simple" offense that did. Umm, we're going to run left now. Might cut back. Stop it.
Agreed about Little Shanny
We dont know about BOB'offense. He hasn't had a competent QB to run it, which is partly his fault and why both should be fired.
I think we should separate what the two men do & judge them by that.
I look at Mallett, Osweiler, & Watson... heck, I'll throw Savage in there, & I see good NFL prospects. With Mallett I didn't & don't see the BS we've seen here in New England or Baltimore. Osweiler had success in Denver, seems to be getting along just fine in Cleveland. IMO Watson is a fine QB prospect...
That does not mean i think Rick is doing a great job.
That does not mean i think Rick earned his extension.
That does not mean i think you're wrong about the job Rick Smith is doing.
But in this case, if Watson doesn't workout, I'm not blaming Rick Smith.
All the bad moves you're thinking about in response to this post, those are reasons to fire Rick Smith. Not this though.
Shocking you would post this
Truthfully is I dont think either one of these men can bring a championship to this city, so they both should be fired. You've said in the past you're not a results oriented person when it comes to football, the game experience is what's most important to you, so it really doesn't matter who the GM/HC is to you.
I'm different in that after more than a decade I think the results are what they are and it's not good enough to win a SB. Really not much has changed in the way the Texans aquire talent, so we should expect more of the same.
I seriously doubt that's what I said.
I remember a conversation where I argued as a season ticket holder I wasn't to upset with the franchise as we won all but one home game that season. It was a conversation about season ticket holders protesting with their money or something like that.
But results are very important to me. I think Rick Smith & Gary Kubiak built a team capable of beating anybody anytime. That they didn't win a Super Bowl, imo was more on the coaches than the F.O.
Currently, I think Rick Smith & Romeo Crennel was able to put together a championship caliber defense.
The fact that you believe this means that we will never agree and even after another decade of this you are unlikely to change your mind
Texansballer74
The Marine
Hoyer and Mallett were competent but Coach college/high school mentality does not work on the NFL level. You can't bench your starter after a poor performance like that and then when the new appointed starter bleeps up , you put the original starter back in.
Well, we have a different definition of competent.
BTW, Houston Texans fans welcome to the world of Tyrod Taylor level of competence. and gave up two 1sts to get it. Aint life grand.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Actually OBrien wanted Brady or Rodgers but they weren't on the available list. I think he would have settled for Rivers or Brees instead.
Seems that all the "good" ones were taken.
It ain't like going to the produce section and selecting the best looking mangoes.
Sometimes you settle for the best of a sorry crop of mangoes. I have this from the highest authority on mangoes.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Why can't he be in the same competence as Russell Wilson? Why do you have to sale the man short? You're just like another poster from Clutchfans. This dude is always against everything the Texans do. Never having anything positive to say.
banned1976
sleeper mode
Well, truthfully they swapped firsts and gave up next years 1st and 2nd to get Taylor. If he turns out great, maybe some people will change their narrative on O'Brien. I know I'll change my narrative on Smith which has been trending more positive over recent years because he is sticking his neck out. If Taylor turns out to be a mess in the NFL, my opinions of both O'Brien and Smith will be in the trash can. I'm ready either way. It's just a game after all.
Actually OBrien wanted Brady or Rodgers but they weren't on the available list. I think he would have settled for Rivers or Brees instead.
Seems that all the "good" ones were taken.
It ain't like going to the produce section and selecting the best looking mangoes.
Sometimes you settle for the best of a sorry crop of mangoes. I have this from the highest authority on mangoes.
They weren't all taken. Carr, Bridgewater, Garropolo, and Prescott were all available in draft. Bradford through trade.
Yes I know you can make an argument why we didn't draft each one. But there were good ones available.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Nobody thought these guys would be good.
Why would the Texans want an injury prone Bradford?
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
IMHO, Savage was O'Brien's one and only QB. He's the only QB drafted (Until Watson - RS) in O'Brien's first three drafts and they've had their chances at other options...so it leads me to believe it has been Savage from day one for O'Brien.
He's coached and developed him to the point that my guess would be that he thought Savage was ready to go into the 2016 season as starter...RS and McNair changed that by obtaining BO and effectively wasted a full season of O'Brien's QB. Now it's pinch-n-clinch time b/c Savage is at the end of his contract and he's not been fully tested. If he does pan out and delivers as QB1, O'Brien's going to look real good and now it will be up to RS to get Savage back under contract. Also, I'm on board with the idea that both RS and O'Brien were on the same page in regards to a QB to be drafted this year but I do not think they were on the same page in how "said QB" would be obtained and at what expense.
As for the QB's brought in to bridge the gap for Savage...he brought in QB smart veterans or QB's who had some basic understanding of his system, therefore he was far less tolerant of mistakes and the same mistakes being made multiple times...hence the quick hook. As for Watson, I wouldn't be surprised to see him in sweats on the sideline while observing Savage and Weeden lead the team. Is that a smack against Watson...NO, but this season is O'Brien's make or break year and I fully expect him to put his best offense (Both starters and backups) in uniform each Thursday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday b/c he will not be afforded excuses for failure.
It's OBrien's job to know
Texansballer74
The Marine
You do know you're contradicting yourself. First you said Savage and ( I guess possible Watson) was the only QB selected by O'Brien. Then in your final paragraph you states he brought in smart veteran QB'S who had an understanding of the system.
Like you said you're quessing. The year before Brock was brought over dude Savage wasn't even thought of. Bill O'Brien is on record saying only Mallett and Hoyer were competeing for the starting job. Even when he would bench either of those guys Savage wasn't thought of. So when Hoyer choked big time in the playoffs, the owner and Rick seen enough of that crap. So they went out in a hasty manner and acquired Brock Osweiler. That right there showed me they wasn't high on Savage either. And why would they be when even the man you claimed drafted him wasn't very high on him.
Watson will not be in street clothes. Dude will be suited up and ready to go if your boy poops the bed or sustains yet another injury.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
No, it's not.
It's the GM and scouts job to know.
OBrien coaches the players presented to him. OBrien does not run the draft room.
I think you know this.
No, it's not.
It's the GM and scouts job to know.
OBrien coaches the players presented to him. OBrien does not run the draft room.
I think you know this.
He works with Rick to get the players. Rick just gets him who he wants.
Texansballer74
The Marine
No, it's not.
It's the GM and scouts job to know.
OBrien coaches the players presented to him. OBrien does not run the draft room.
I think you know this.
It's both of their jobs. It's the GMs job to scout the players who fit the coaches offense and defense scheme. Some coaches are very hands on with selecting players whether its through the draft or free agency. Bill O'Brien is on record saying it's a collective decision from all party's involved.
So again why do you people on here try to push your own agenda. Are you saying Bill O'Brien is a liar?
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Bradford finally become a "good quarterback" last season (his 6th year in the league).. Bridgewater can't even practice without his leg folding like a lawn chair.. and despite their upside Garropolo and Prescott still need more body of work before they're proven..the jury is still out.
The only QB on your list that you can really say is a proven good franchise QB is Carr. Bradford needs to repeat his performance and prove that he can stay healthy.
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The Raiders, Vikes, Pats, and Cowboys did..
Texansballer74
The Marine
Take the Pats and Cowboys out of the equation. They did not draft thier QB in the 1st rounds.
The Texans didn't want Carr or Bridgewater.
No, let's not. They were still 'good' guys that were available in the draft. And didn't want schmidn't want, the topic was OB/the FO's job as it pertains to finding this team a legit QB. There are no good reasons for bringing in the succession of turds we've seen while other teams have miraculously stumbled into competent-to-star caliber QB play.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Who's to say that they didn't want some of those QBs? Were we in the war room? Sometimes other teams just beat you to the punch. With Carr.. that's about the only one I think they truly had off their list and not really because of him as a prospect, but because of the fallout his brother had here, they didn't want to deal with it and honestly it really wouldn't of been fair to Derek to make him deal with all that crap too. I don't think Derek would've became the player that he is in Oakland here.. I just don't.
Yeah, it's called luck.. There's a lot of luck involved in that too.
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