"Doing A Line" article at houstonprofootball.com

[TEXANRED]

That's my point. DTs are a dime a dozen. In most systems, their only job is to be huge and get blocked, letting LBs make the plays. Finding true secondary monsters is a rareity.

If we were going D, I would have rather had Nelson, Hall, Revis, or Willis. Guys are more impact positions.

Pitcock, Thomas, and Mebane all went off the board in the 3rd, and there is not much of a step down in talent between them and Okoye.

I wouldn't have called any of those guys shutdown corners.

If there was a shut down corner in this draft then he would have been a top 5 or top 10 pick. Kinda like Hall and Robinson was a few years back.

Our problem is we have never had a pass rush. No one has ever feared our defense. The record for single season sacks by any one player is 8, from 2002.

 

[Errant Hothy]

This how the 90's Cowboys got away with Larry Brown at CB and who was their FS .

George Teague, I only know cause I've meet him several times andhe's a really good guy. He is also the oen who popped TO on the star.

 

[hollywood_texan]

If we're picking in the top ten again next year, we'll have more to worry about than just a LT....

Exactly!

And the issue won't be Okoye, it will be the Schuab deal that people will be second guessing.

 

[Mr. White]

George Teague, I only know cause I've meet him several times andhe's a really good guy. He is also the oen who popped TO on the star.

Brock Marion was the FS that they won Super Bowls with. I don't think Teague came along until later.

 

[Errant Hothy]

Brock Marion was the FS that they won Super Bowls with. I don't think Teague came along until later.

Teague was drafted in 93, wasn't he?

 

[Mr. White]

Teague was drafted in 93, wasn't he?

He started out with the Packers. He went to the Cowboys in 96. Maybe he went to the Super Bowl with Switzer.

 

[hadaad]

Hmmm, he wasn't that explicit.

He basically said--hey we got the guys we got, we went and got another guy we thought could help, but there wasn't anyone else in FA or high up in the draft that made sense to get.

He did make a point that they weren't going to just go get guys just to get guys and overspend. (He didn't go..cough cough...Todd Wade...though he could have.)

That's okay. This was just another unsubtle attempt to get my anti-Salaam rhetoric out there.

 

[Errant Hothy]

He started out with the Packers. He went to the Cowboys in 96. Maybe he went to the Super Bowl with Switzer.

Fair enough. My Cowboy knowledge is lacking...wonder why?

 

[real]

That's my point. DTs are a dime a dozen. In most systems, their only job is to be huge and get blocked, letting LBs make the plays. Finding true secondary monsters is a rareity.

If we were going D, I would have rather had Nelson, Hall, Revis, or Willis. Guys are more impact positions.

Pitcock, Thomas, and Mebane all went off the board in the 3rd, and there is not much of a step down in talent between them and Okoye.

I think your logic is flawed. You're assuming both players are/will be of equal talent.

That's like saying you would have taken Ronde Barber over Warren Sapp. While Ronde is a damn good corner, I'd take Warren in his prime over him...but maybe that's just me....

And this is coming from one of the biggest proponents of "corners are the most important positions on defense", but that doesn't mean I'd do something as foolish as taking Nathan Vasher over Tommie Harris....

 

[Double Barrel]

Seems to me like the sad fact is there just weren't many LT prospects to be had this offseason in FA or the draft.

Yep. Good offensive tackles and pass rushers are hard to find in FA. There is a reason why teams draft and hold on to them.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Thanks for that info. It's nice to hear that Black is the insurance and that Salaam isn't. I will admit I don't like Salaam but I can live with him as a swing tackle as long as he never has to play a down.

Personally, I liked the way Salaam filled in. Sure he wasn't perfect, but how many backups are? It was said throughout the season that he was playing through injuries week in week out. What if he would've stayed down when Dayne ran his butt over tweeking his knee? Bedell?? The next play when Bedell took over the QB was sacked. IMO, I'd take him as a swing tackle over anyone else on the team. Intelligence and experience in the locker room as well as very good depth.

 

[hadaad]

Personally, I liked the way Salaam filled in. Sure he wasn't perfect, but how many backups are? It was said throughout the season that he was playing through injuries week in week out. What if he would've stayed down when Dayne ran his butt over tweeking his knee? Bedell?? The next play when Bedell took over the QB was sacked. IMO, I'd take him as a swing tackle over anyone else on the team. Intelligence and experience in the locker room as well as very good depth.

I don't expect a backup to play perfectly, no. I'm just saying I don't want him starting. If he starts more than a couple of games this season, we're in trouble.
Intangibles are nice, though.

 

[HOU-TEX]

I don't expect a backup to play perfectly, no. I'm just saying I don't want him starting. If he starts more than a couple of games this season, we're in trouble.
Intangibles are nice, though.

What do you mean you don't want him starting? Spencer went down for the season. There was no other choice than to start him. He wasn't meant to be a starter much like he won't be considered a starter this year. If he does then it'll be due to injury or horrible play by the starter. He's a backup, and a decent one at that.

 

[hollywood_texan]

That's my point. DTs are a dime a dozen. In most systems, their only job is to be huge and get blocked, letting LBs make the plays. Finding true secondary monsters is a rareity.

The primary job of a DT in a 4-3 is to make other players' jobs easier.

A great DT is an unsung hero.

You are discounting the importance way too much!

Maybe Okoye isn't that type of player in your opinion, but that is a different discussion all together.

 

[real]

I don't expect a backup to play perfectly, no. I'm just saying I don't want him starting. If he starts more than a couple of games this season, we're in trouble.
Intangibles are nice, though.

As of right now, despite what Kubiak or the depth chart says, Salaam is the best LT on our team....I know a lot of people don't like Salaam, and think he sucks terribly, but he has played pretty much the whole year...he knows our system...he's tough....and while he may not be a shut down type LT, he's adequate enough for the stage that we're at as a franchise...

Either way I'm not too worried because, despite popular belief, I think we have some good quality linemen...I definitely think we have a play-off line...

 

[Mr. White]

That's my point. DTs are a dime a dozen. In most systems, their only job is to be huge and get blocked, letting LBs make the plays. Finding true secondary monsters is a rareity.

Speaking of the Cowboys and DT's, they picked Russell Maryland #1 overall in 1991. Seems to have worked out all right for them.

Gotta disagree about DT's being a dime a dozen.

 

[Errant Hothy]

Good DT's are nowhere near a dime a dozen. Why do you think so many tend to go in the top half of the first round? A great DT is about as rare as a great QB.

 

[real]

Speaking of the Cowboys and DT's, they picked Russell Maryland #1 overall in 1991. Seems to have worked out all right for them.

Gotta disagree about DT's being a dime a dozen.

Good DT's are nowhere near a dime a dozen. Why do you think so many tend to go in the top half of the first round? A great DT is about as rare as a great QB.

When he said "a dime a dozen" I think he was trying to say that there isn't much difference between the good ones and the ok ones...

I totally disagree with him, but I think that's what he meant...

 

[nunusguy]

I also think that Jordan Black isn't as bad as everyone thinks that he is.

People lets not deceive ourselves into thinking Black is something that he's not. He is probably a mediorcre tackle at his best - on the right side. As far as being an effective LT, you don't get that in FA in this league with a 2-year,3.5 million dollar contract. Lets recognize what we have and accept it for that and not expect something more. In other words he might be a marginal upgrade over Salaam but still not = to the average NFL LT.
With Charles Spencer still being a huge ? mark, IMO our best hope for 2007 at LT is Eric Winston.

 

[real]

I think Salaam is our best option at LT until someone proves they're better...

 

[Mr. White]

People lets not deceive ourselves into thinking Black is something that he's not.

Sounds like you've broken down film on him. I'd love to hear more about it.

I don't know that he'll be a decent LT any more than you don't know that he'll be a mediocre RT. All I said is that I don't think he's as bad as everyone around here says he is.

 

[Texan_Bill]

I remember a link to KC's message boards whenever we signed black and they were really rough on the guy and laughed at us for taking him, with the offensive line woes that we already had.

 

[Mr. White]

I remember a link to KC's message boards whenever we signed black and they were really rough on the guy and laughed at us for taking him, with the offensive line woes that we already had.

Same thing happened on Jacksonville's boards after we signed Salaam. He isn't the best thing going, but he isn't as bad as they said he is.

 

[real]

Same thing happened on Jacksonville's boards after we signed Salaam. He isn't the best thing going, but he isn't as bad as they said he is.

Same thing happens with every player. If someone from Carolina were to visit one of our boards they'd probably leave with the impression that Davud was the worst QB on earth....But in actuality, if put in the right situation David can probably be decent...

It's not unusual for fans excessively rip players when they leave...

 

[Specnatz]

Same thing happened on Jacksonville's boards after we signed Salaam. He isn't the best thing going, but he isn't as bad as they said he is.

I think it has a lot to do with the guys they play next to and how the coaching staf schemes things to hide a weakness or schemes to exploit a strength.

 

[HoustonFrog]

Brock Marion was the FS that they won Super Bowls with. I don't think Teague came along until later.

Actually James Washington was their safety and should have been MVP of the SB in the second Bills beat down. And was he and Thomas Everett at one point. Woodson and Marion were there also.

 

[Mr. White]

Same thing happens with every player. If someone from Carolina were to visit one of our boards they'd probably leave with the impression that Davud was the worst QB on earth....But in actuality, if put in the right situation David can probably be decent...

It's not unusual for fans excessively rip players when they leave...

Not at all.

I guess my point here is that nobody here knew anything about Jordan Black until he met with the Texans. They still don't. But they act like they do. The perception of him being a turnstile came from one game against the Colts when their defense finally showed up in their own stadium.

 

[Runner]

Bob here is doing the same thing they are doing. Complaining to complain.

I'm not complaining to complain. I have legitimate concerns about the o-line.

If someone had said at the start of last season that the only change they'd make to the line this year was to replace Spencer with Jordan Black, would you have said, "Great, the line is looking better!"?

We are building up a lot of expectations around Schaub being QB and fixing everything. I hope he's not a hated man by the end of the season.

These coaches are limited in what they can do, I understand that. It would have been interesting if Levi was available at 10 and to have seen the pick. He wasn't. They couldn't afford a big free agent tackle and/or center. However, just because they couldn't find a way to upgrade the line with available resources doesn't mean they didn't need to.


---------------------------

Oops - I didn't see this before I posted the above. It says some of the same things.

As it relates to the draft, Kubiak at the draft luncheon said that they did what they could do this year. That yeah, the Texans are looking at the long term answer at left tackle so they don't have to worry about it, but so are 31other teams in the league. That they believe in Charles Spencer and believe he can be back. But that they can't count on that so they got Jordan Black and have the other guys they can work with. But they were not going to reach in the draft for an offensive lineman, or overpay for a lineman in free agency just because he was the best guy available.

Oops - I didn't see this before I posted the above. It says some of the same things.

 

[Runner]

See, I think just the opposite. I like a HC who says I know one side best so I will put more talent on the other side and do my coaching magic where I am an expert. Look at what Jimmy Johnson did or at how Dungy consistently makes do with less money and stars on the D. Capers violated the pooch by doing the opposite and over controlling the O and ignoring Fangio not running the D the way he would have.

Good point, but there are probably examples both ways. Walsh with the 49er's offense for instance.

There are a lot of variables about how a team evolves; budget, player availability, and luck play a big role too.

 

[Runner]

He did make a point that they weren't going to just go get guys just to get guys and overspend. (He didn't go..cough cough...Todd Wade...though he could have.)

But TC! With Schaub here Wade would be Pro-Bowler!

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

But TC! With Schaub here Wade would be Pro-Bowler!

Saying Carr failed because the OL is way to simple .

Saying the OL stinks because of Carr is to easy .

Saying Carr was'nt the kind of player to lead an expansion team and the Texans tried to build an OL is true ( Boselli , Young , Pitts , Mckinney , and Weary ) .

I think there is a lot of missing locker room info about the simplistic offense , no audibles , locking on to a reciever , and the lack of leadership stuff that will never be answered .

We've been through over a dozen different OL ... now we're trying our 2nd starting QB ... I guess it won't take long to figure this one out .

 

[texasguy346]

I'm blown away. What he said is unexcusable. It's just way out of line, and I won't tolerate it.






How could he say Scarface was a bad movie?

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

I'm blown away. What he said is unexcusable. It's just way out of line, and I won't tolerate it.






How could he say Scarface was a bad movie?

He hates on Al Pacino .

 

[Specnatz]

I'm not complaining to complain. I have legitimate concerns about the o-line.

If someone had said at the start of last season that the only change they'd make to the line this year was to replace Spencer with Jordan Black, would you have said, "Great, the line is looking better!"?

We are building up a lot of expectations around Schaub being QB and fixing everything. I hope he's not a hated man by the end of the season.

These coaches are limited in what they can do, I understand that. It would have been interesting if Levi was available at 10 and to have seen the pick. He wasn't. They couldn't afford a big free agent tackle and/or center. However, just because they couldn't find a way to upgrade the line with available resources doesn't mean they didn't need to.

I was one of the guys who was wanting Brown big time. This is what I have been mentioning about guys like Kiper and such blasting the Texans for not taking a lineman. Mark Schelerth, a 10th round pick, blasted the Texans this year for not taking a lineman. so when exactly were they going to do that in this draft? Besides when they did. Kiper blasted the Texans about not taking an OL and a DB, but I looked at our drafts and it looks like we did, just not in the round he thought we should. If you are going to crittique someone at least do it while also knowing the players who were available when that team drafted.

 

[TEXANRED]

I'm blown away. What he said is unexcusable. It's just way out of line, and I won't tolerate it.






How could he say Scarface was a bad movie?

There are two things I am flabbergasted about:

1st being how on earth does a QB who is no longer on the team high jack a thread about DT's?

2nd thing is how anyone could think scarface was a good movie? Seriously. Are there a shortage of Cubans in the US? I find it hard to believe the only actor available to play a Cuban was a spray on tan Italian with a terrible Cuban accent. Not to mention his "He's covering up my thumb!" acting. (Over the Top reference for those who didn't get it.)

I don't know who's accent was worse, Al in scarface or Adam Sandler in the Water boy.

Mama said that Scarface is the Devil.

 

[Double Barrel]

There are two things I am flabbergasted about:

1st being how on earth does a QB who is no longer on the team high jack a thread about DT's?

You do realize that you were one of the hijackers, 'eh?

The article was about the Texans drafting a defensive lineman when the perception of many is that we should have used the pick on our o-line.

From there a discussion ensues about our o-line, which morphs into a "was it the line or QB" chat. This season should answer at least some of those questions (I hope).

2nd thing is how anyone could think scarface was a good movie? Seriously. Are there a shortage of Cubans in the US? I find it hard to believe the only actor available to play a Cuban was a spray on tan Italian with a terrible Cuban accent. Not to mention his "He's covering up my thumb!" acting. (Over the Top reference for those who didn't get it.)

I don't know who's accent was worse, Al in scarface or Adam Sandler in the Water boy.

Mama said that Scarface is the Devil.

heh, that's funny. I liked the movie, but I can understand the critics.

SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND

 

[Runner]

Sounds like you've broken down film on him. I'd love to hear more about it.

I don't know that he'll be a decent LT any more than you don't know that he'll be a mediocre RT. All I said is that I don't think he's as bad as everyone around here says he is.

So, does eveyone have to "break down film" on any player to have an opinion? If so, this board is going to be very quiet.

I specifically watched Black play last year when I could because a buddy of mine suggested I do so. I didn't DVR it and break it down, but I formed an opinion. Good back-up means just that - OK for spot duty, I wouldn't want him playing game after game as the starter.

 

[TEXANRED]

You do realize that you were one of the hijackers, 'eh?

The article was about the Texans drafting a defensive lineman when the perception of many is that we should have used the pick on our o-line.

From there a discussion ensues about our o-line, which morphs into a "was it the line or QB" chat. This season should answer at least some of those questions (I hope).

I see it as less of a Hijacking <===that word is hilarious by the way, and more of a victim on the street who is filling out an eyewitness report.

Besides, I didn't say he who's name must not be spoken.


I can't really say that I am much of a movie critic though. I think Kurt Russell is one of the greatest action movie stars over the last 20 plus years.

Big trouble in little China
Tango and Cash
Escape from NY
Escape from LA

Still haven't gotten to see Grind House. Heard it was good.

 

[Runner]

Same thing happens with every player. If someone from Carolina were to visit one of our boards they'd probably leave with the impression that Davud was the worst QB on earth....But in actuality, if put in the right situation David can probably be decent...

It's not unusual for fans excessively rip players when they leave...

The inverse happens too - a player looks much better to the fans of the team that just signed him.

It's not unusual for fans to excessively praise players when they come in ... that is what makes those same fans crash from unrealstic expectations to reality so hard in some cases.

That's fandom.

 

[Double Barrel]

There are definitely different schools of thought. The "right" one, of course, is that which is proven to win games. Something that worked there may not work here. Players that are marginal here go to be a part of a successful team there. So many factors influence single players. Of course, the greats are great, but they are only legendary when playing on a great team. And there are marginal players with rings (Dilfer) and HoF legends without (Marino). So it is seeing shades of gray that I approach analyzing players, and I try to take a big picture perspective that considers all angles.

My attitude about our HC's philosophy is one of cautious optimism. Cautious because it hasn't been proven a success, yet. Optimist because I have no say in the matter and it's a choice of perspective.

With regards to Kubiak's attitude about defense, I agree with the approach of building a dominant unit that can consistently prevent the other team from scoring. It takes the pressure off of the offense and offensive special teams, and we have a greater chance of success with this approach (especially in a conference with Indy).

And a big part of a dominant defense is the line. If the run is consistently stopped, the offense becomes one dimensional. With constant pressure on the QB, pressure is relieved from coverage and the offense is more likely to make mistakes. I see so much potential with the components that we're building, and really hope to see a defense that crushes opponents. Nothing is more satisfying to this fanatic. And with that in mind, I have no problem in welcoming Amobi Akoye into our team.

 

[Texans_Chick]

I think it is rational and sane to have concerns over the Texans offensive line.

Why? Because it hasn't had much of a track record of success over the course of a season with run and pass blocking. It is not a line that many teams would trade for. Now there are lots of reasons for that--some might be talent, experience, bad luck related and some have nothing to do with the line's responsibility. There is hope that having a quarterback with better pocket presence and ability to read Ds, and an experienced running back that prides himself in blocking will help the line out as well.

I think it is also rational and sane to not kill the Texans for not doing more in the offseason to improve the talent on the line. This was not a year under free agency and the draft that the Texans were likely going to get an offensive line stud--due to salary cap considerations and who was available.

I still have concerns with the way the line is coached until I see that line performing. The bios of the guys coaching the line talk about how good they did despite injuries. Yeah whatever--these are the same guys who kept McKinney on the bench until the Hodgdon experiment was so not working.

Though I think Carr was responsible for some of the stuff relating to how the line looked, I also think it is a mistake to think Carr goes away therefore everything is sunshine and roses on the line. Nobody knows.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

OK ... I agree about Carr not being the whole problem but if you can improve the line by 15% by changing the QB ... you do it .

The worst thing you can do is what we've already done and over spend on average talent ( Todd Wade ). There is not going to be a top notch FA LT ... why because they're hard to find .

So I guess with Thomas and Brown off the board we should have taken Staley at #10 . Even if Okoye was ranked an 8.5 and Staley a 7.0 we panic and draft a lesser player .

Trade down and get Staley ... I guess there was no good deals .

 

[real]

IMHO, Carr was the main problem with our line...I know there are many that disagree, and while I don't think our line is as good as it needs to be, I don't really think it has a lot to do with the talent...I believe a lot of factors played into our OL woes...Coaching, injuries, non-cohesiveness, and a QB with bad pocket presence and timing...

While I don't think we have any GREAT individual offensive linemen, I do believe that we have linemen good enough to fit into a scheme...I think when we compare our line to teams like Baltimore, NE, SD, Chi, or even Seattle what we don't also factor in is that a lot of those teams with dominant individual linemen run a completely different scheme....

I'm not saying that we can get by with complete scrubs, but I am saying that different schemes suit different types of players and our scheme, IMO, just happens to be a scheme where you don't neccessarily need a group of high end O-linemen...We basically really need guys who can move their feet, think, and have adequate strength...Whether you realize it or not a linemans job in a ZBS is relatively easy...It's not really a system where you need 5 brutes up front blowing the opposing D-line 3 yards off the ball...The RB is the one that has the hard job of quickly finding a lane because the linemen are taught that you basically just take the defender where he wants to go, and the RB needs to find the hole and get through it...And in the passing game there are a lot of designed rollouts, and boots and PA....

Our scheme is basically designed to take pressure off of the line...Again, I'm not saying that we can just take any scrub off of the street and make him a beast, but I am saying that we don't neccessarily need individually dominant guys...

And another thing is that just because a guy did poorly in one system doesn't mean he'll struggle in ours and vice versa...Otherwise all those late round draft picks that Denver uses on O-line would never work out...

JMO

 

[Marcus]

One shut down corner can do more for a Defense than 4 D-Linemen. Not sure if Revis or Hall were shutdown corners.

Broncos: Horrible D-Linemen, great CB. They had no pass rush, and did pretty well. A guy that can make half the field a non factor trumps a pass rush.

So what if we have a pass rush? Who is going to cover anyone besides D-Rob?

Getting a "shutdown corner" and using him to make up for the lack of a pass rush, is like putting a band-aid on an infected sore. All you're doing is covering up what the real problem is. And eventually, if nothing is done to take care of that sore, that high priced band-aid is going to wear out.

I don't think the secondary is all that bad. Yes, it could be improved, but at the same time, I don't think it's been "neglected" as some would infer. With a 4-3 defense, the four down linemen shoud be able to demonstrate the ability to put pressure on a QB . . . not all the time, not even most of the time . . just every once in awhile . . to prove to the opposition that they can do it. But this team, so far . . . cannot do that . . at any time, without the use of the blitz to make up for it.

And just to be clear, I'm not talking about sacks. Big picture wise, I could care less how many sacks we get. I'm talking about disruption, by the front four ALONE. If we could ever get to point to where we could do this . . just every once in a great while . . . it would make the opposing offensive scheme a lot more difficult to carry out. It would cut down on their options. They would make more mistakes. It would make it more easier to get interceptions. It would make more easier for the secondary to play the ball, and get out of the riskier man coverage.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

It does'nt add up that every OL that we've brought in since 2002 stinks . A blind Casserly will find a few acorns .

I'm tired of talking ex QB stuff but I will say this ... in a couple of months we'll know if it's the chicken or the egg . My thinking is we'll look like a much better team on offense . It's more than blocking it's execution , unity , smarts , and raising the bar on what's excepted .

 

[Texans_Chick]

OK ... I agree about Carr not being the whole problem but if you can improve the line by 15% by changing the QB ... you do it .

The worst thing you can do is what we've already done and over spend on average talent ( Todd Wade ). There is not going to be a top notch FA LT ... why because they're hard to find .

So I guess with Thomas and Brown off the board we should have taken Staley at #10 . Even if Okoye was ranked an 8.5 and Staley a 7.0 we panic and draft a lesser player .

Trade down and get Staley ... I guess there was no good deals .

I believe they brought Staley in for a visit.

The Texans claim that Okoye was the #1 defensive player on their draft board. He was available at 10. So I am guessing they didn't believe trading down was worth passing on Okoye.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

If Staley started at LSU , he might have been a top 10 pick .

I think the Texans felt that they had to hit at 10 and Okoye was the safe pick . I also think that if Okoye is the real deal the DL then we'll have to think of a nickname four our DL .

OK ... hmmm ... The Fearsome Foursome has been used , Steel Curtain used ... Battle Red bullies , Stampede , I don't know .

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

The original Hogs were starting tackles Joe Jacoby and George Starke, guards Russ Grimm and Mark May, center Jeff Bostic, and tight ends Don Warren and Rick Walker.

Starke (1973-1984) was the senior member of the squad, having joined Washington in 1972.The rest of the Hogs were relatively new to the team. Bostic (1980-1993) was signed as a long snapper in 1980 after being cut by the Eagles, but was starting at center by the beginning of the 1981 season. He was joined in 1981by two rookie guards, May (1981-1989) and Grimm (1981-1991). Both May and Grimm were drafted out of Pittsburgh in the 1st and 3rd round respectively (20th & 69th overall).

The final piece of the puzzle, the biggest piece, joined the Redskins that same famed 1981 training camp. A giant rookie free agent from Louisville named Joe Jacoby (1982-1993) walked into Coach Gibbs office looking for a job. Figuring Jacoby was a defensive tackle because of his massive size (6'7", 300 lbs), Gibbs told Joe that he'd give him a chance.

''I was scared and frightened because I didn't know what to expect,'' Jacoby remembers about that first meeting. ''So I didn't want to correct him.''

The rest is history. These five men formed the core of the Hogs. In fact, over the next two seasons, 1982 and 1983, Jacoby, Starke, Grimm, May and Bostic would miss a combined total of just ONE game. They hung out together, they ate together, Grimm and Jacoby even roomed together for a few years. More importantly, they became a powerful, cohesive unit that provided big holes for John Riggins and pass protection for Joe Theismann. Riggins campaigned to be a Hog, as did Theismann. "No quarterbacks," said Starke. The Hogs loved John though and he was admitted as 'Honorary Hog'.

Riggins and his fellow Hogs increased their tightness as members of the 5 O'Clock Club started by Vince Lombardi in 1969. The group met after practice in an old tool shed at Redskin Park. It had no plumbing, no electricity. There was a kerosene heater over which Riggo would sometimes warm cans of pork and beans. The delicate fare was normally washed down with frothy beverages.

"A lot of problems were solved out there," Grimm remembers with a chuckle.

That kind of cohesiveness was important on what became one of their signature plays, the Counter Trey. Bostic, May and Starke would block down or to the left. Grimm and Jacoby would pull and come around the right side. The running back would take a step to the left and then take the handoff going right, and it worked many times, to the dismay of opponents.

In fact, it was that developed cohesiveness that allowed Bugel and head coach Joe Gibbs to develop a punishing ball control offense. The hogs would smash huge holes in the defense and Riggins would run through them.

The 1983 playoffs was when the Hogs began to show their brilliance. Riggins ran the ball 37 times for 185 yards against Minnesota, 36 times for 140 yards against Dallas in the NFC Championship game, and 38 times for 166 yards against Miami in Super Bowl XVII. An incredible 610 yards in four games to capture the franchises first Super Bowl.

Although Riggins' performances were spectacular, the Redskins' offensive line were the ones controlling the trenches. The Hogs paved the way for Joe Gibbs to turn his clock-eating, ball-driving offense into the first of three Super Bowls in less than a decade.

The Hogs kept paving highways through defensive lines in 1984 and rolled easily into Super Bowl XVIII before being upset by the Raiders 38-9.

http://www.thehogs.net/html/Hogs/history.php

 

[HoustonFrog]

If Staley started at LSU , he might have been a top 10 pick .

I think the Texans felt that they had to hit at 10 and Okoye was the safe pick . I also think that if Okoye is the real deal the DL then we'll have to think of a nickname four our DL .

OK ... hmmm ... The Fearsome Foursome has been used , Steel Curtain used ... Battle Red bullies , Stampede , I don't know .

I like Stampede. Terrible Toros. Bull Whip.

 

[Double Barrel]

The original Hogs were starting tackles Joe Jacoby and George Starke, guards Russ Grimm and Mark May, center Jeff Bostic, and tight ends Don Warren and Rick Walker.

I was a fan of the Redskins during the early/mid 1980's because the Oilers sucked (I was still a fan, but local blackouts kept me from seeing them every week). The Redskins were division rivals of the Cowboys, who I hated, and they were an awesome team. I really enjoyed the 1986 season, when the won the championship (I had my first Super Bowl party this year during my freshman year of college).

Good stuff to read about the Hogs.