Does either Yates or Keenum give you a better chance to win that Schaub.

[Mr teX]

Since I've had about all the doom and gloom I can take from the Texans and my fellow fans, I'd like to introduce a new conversation (or rehash an old one).

I know I'm going to get labeled as a CK fanboy (although I went to UT, there is a special place in my heart for UH) but I want to offer a small glimmer of hope. Please understand that I completely understand that the odds are that CK will be what he is: an undrafted QB who plays well against 2nd and 3rd stringers but will get brought back to earth if he plays against the starters.

In the event he's not, I think this is the perfect situation for him. I heard both Kliff Kingsbury and Dana Holgorsen say on the radio today that if they had to choose only one thing CK accels at what would it be? Answers? Footwork/Extending the play and strong mental aspect. Hmmmmm...sounds like someone who is perfect to make something out of nothing when our poor man's O-line misses a block, wouldn't you say? CK doesn't seem like the type of guy to go into the fetal position when the pocket starts breaking down and is fast enough to take off if there is nothing there. He's also a student of the game and his mobility makes him perfect to run the bootleg.

I think he's raw and is going to make some mistakes but I think he's going to surprise some people. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if he brings a new dimension to the offense and the players feed off of it. Flame away.

I remember this forum having the exact same conversation, using this exact same rationale for nearly the same type of prospect in Colt McCoy..All you'd have to do with this post is change out "CK" for "CM".

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Since I've had about all the doom and gloom I can take from the Texans and my fellow fans, I'd like to introduce a new conversation (or rehash an old one).

I know I'm going to get labeled as a CK fanboy (although I went to UT, there is a special place in my heart for UH) but I want to offer a small glimmer of hope. Please understand that I completely understand that the odds are that CK will be what he is: an undrafted QB who plays well against 2nd and 3rd stringers but will get brought back to earth if he plays against the starters.

In the event he's not, I think this is the perfect situation for him. I heard both Kliff Kingsbury and Dana Holgorsen say on the radio today that if they had to choose only one thing CK accels at what would it be? Answers? Footwork/Extending the play and strong mental aspect. Hmmmmm...sounds like someone who is perfect to make something out of nothing when our poor man's O-line misses a block, wouldn't you say? CK doesn't seem like the type of guy to go into the fetal position when the pocket starts breaking down and is fast enough to take off if there is nothing there. He's also a student of the game and his mobility makes him perfect to run the bootleg.

I think he's raw and is going to make some mistakes but I think he's going to surprise some people. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if he brings a new dimension to the offense and the players feed off of it. Flame away.

I agree with you. Given the state of our O'Line, we need a much more mobile QB than we've had lately. Even if he has to be spoon fed by Kubiak, he'll at least bring some excitement back to the offensive side of the game & reduce the predictability of our play calling. Any time you have a QB that's not afraid to take off & run the defense has to respect that, which should open up other aspects of the offense.

I guess people don't know or don't remember that Keenum had an OL that was virtually non-existent. He moved the ball despite this gigantic albatross.

 

[House of Pain]

I remember this forum having the exact same conversation, using this exact same rationale for nearly the same type of prospect in Colt McCoy..All you'd have to do with this post is change out "CK" for "CM".

Well, okay, great! Was that proven or dis-proven, considering "CM" has never played QB for the Texans?

 

[House of Pain]

I guess people don't know or don't remember that Keenum had an OL that was virtually non-existent. He moved the ball despite this gigantic albatross.

I can't rep you again, but yes, people seem to forget that CK played behind a line that would make a Arena Football team blush.

 

[thunderkyss]

I remember this forum having the exact same conversation, using this exact same rationale for nearly the same type of prospect in Colt McCoy..All you'd have to do with this post is change out "CK" for "CM".

Well, okay, great! Was that proven or dis-proven, considering "CM" has never played QB for the Texans?

That's true. He went to Cleveland... that's almost as bad as going to Detroit.

I'm interested in seeing what he'll look like in San Fran if he gets an opportunity to start.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Keenum should get shot at energizing team
By John McClain
9:17 AM

Texans coach Gary Kubiak has left the door open for any of his three quarterbacks to start at Kansas City on Sunday, so this is a good time to make a case for Case Keenum, the people's choice.

Matt Schaub left Sunday's 38-13 loss to St. Louis with a sore foot and ankle. Kubiak said Schaub's status for the undefeated Chiefs will be determined at the end of the week.

While Schaub is recuperating, Kubiak said he'll prepare Keenum and T.J. Yates as if they'll be starting at Arrowhead Stadium.

"I'll prepare both, and we'll go from there at the end of the week," Kubiak said. "With Matt, it's going to be the end of the week before we know anything, so I'll prepare the other two to play.

"We've got to put a game plan in, and I've got to prepare them both the same."

The Texans need something that will re-energize them, something to rekindle the fire they showed before blowing the Seattle game. That would be Keenum, who has the mobility to combat a Chiefs pass rush with an NFL-best 31 sacks.

"He's come a long way as far as his smarts and understanding our system," Kubiak said. "He's got the arm to make all the throws. He moves pretty good. He's been working extremely hard."

I don't care if Keenum wasn't drafted and looks like an equipment assistant in the dressing room and a water boy on the practice field. He can't be any worse than Schaub and Yates have been in the last two defeats to San Francisco and St. Louis.

If Schaub were healthy and playing to his capability, he should be the starter. But he's not healthy, and he's not playing to his capability.

Litany of concerns

It's not all Schaub's fault, either. The No. 1-ranked defense is 32nd in the red zone, and the Texans have forced only three turnovers to rank 31st. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention how bad the special teams have been. Again.

The Texans are coming off consecutive embarrassing performances. If not for Ben Tate's meaningless touchdown with three minutes left against the Rams, the Texans would have failed to score a touchdown in three of four games.

The Texans average 395.7 yards a game, but when they get to the red zone, it's like the Bermuda Triangle. They vanish.

They also don't make plays down the field. If they complete another third-down pass short of the first-down marker, they should be fined by Roger Goodell.

Playing Schaub against the rejuvenated Chiefs if he's not 100 percent doesn't make sense. He's got a sore right foot, the same foot that was surgically repaired less than 24 months ago.

In the Chiefs' 24-7 win over Oakland on Sunday, they recorded 10 sacks. The Texans already have allowed 17 sacks, 10 fewer than all of last season. Schaub was sacked three times by the Rams and fortunate to avoid a serious injury when he was obliterated by defensive end Chris Long.

Bad matchup

Schaub has been sacked 15 times and will get pulverized trying to avoid the Chiefs' ferocious rush.

Whether it's been Schaub or Yates at quarterback, the Texans have been a turnover machine with 11 interceptions and four fumbles. They're minus-12 in turnover ratio. Only the 0-6 Giants are worse.

Guess who leads the NFL with a plus-12 turnover ratio. Yep, the Chiefs.

Schaub and Yates have combined to throw a pick-six in five consecutive games, a league record.

It's unfair to judge Yates by the terrible circumstances he's been forced into against the 49ers and Rams. He entered in the fourth and third quarters of hopeless games.

But Yates doesn't move much better than Schaub. If Yates starts against the Chiefs, he'll be running for his life.

link

 

[thunderkyss]

Keenum should get shot at energizing team
By John McClain
9:17 AM

The Texans need something that will re-energize them, something to rekindle the fire they showed before blowing the Seattle game. That would be Keenum, who has the mobility to combat a Chiefs pass rush with an NFL-best 31 sacks.

link

They just sacked Terrell Pryor 10 times. They don't need mobility, they need someone who can process plays quickly & get the ball out on time.


I'm not saying that's not Case, just saying, don't ask for a mobile QB when they just sacked Terrell Pryor 10 times.

 

[DX-TEX]

:kubepalm:

 

[Carr Bombed]

:kubepalm:

LOL

 

[Bulls on Parade]

They just sacked Terrell Pryor 10 times. They don't need mobility, they need someone who can process plays quickly & get the ball out on time.


I'm not saying that's not Case, just saying, don't ask for a mobile QB when they just sacked Terrell Pryor 10 times.

The Raiders also don't have Arian Foster and Ben Tate. We don't have to rely on Case Keenum to throw the ball 20 or 30 times. I'd rather run the ball 20 or 30 times against the Chiefs' 23rd ranked run defense. We should be wearing down their defense as the game goes on and controlling the time of possession.

That's exactly what they are going to try do to us with their good run game and our poorly ranked run defense (25th). The Chiefs are 6-0 because they rely heavily on their run game and defense? And Alex Smith doesn't turn the ball over that much. He's the ultimate game manager which is what I feel Case Keenum can become for us.

The Chiefs are the perfect example of how to utilize your strengths and minimize your flaws as a team. Andy Reid is one hell of a head coach. I'd probably say he's a top five head coach in the game right now. And he has been since 2000 as far as I'm concerned.

If Gary Kubiak just went into these games a little more prepared and with an actual game plan to succeed, we'd probably be at worse, 4-2 right now and not 2-4. Coaching football isn't rocket science. Sometimes you just need to line up and run the damn ball down their throats. Impose your will on the other team. You don't need an elite quarterback to win games. Alex Smith is far from elite but yet he's shining this season.

As bad as our offensive line has been in pass protection, they are very dominating at run blocking.

 

[Rey]

They just sacked Terrell Pryor 10 times. They don't need mobility, they need someone who can process plays quickly & get the ball out on time.


I'm not saying that's not Case, just saying, don't ask for a mobile QB when they just sacked Terrell Pryor 10 times.

No, we need someone with more mobility, a good feel for moving in the pocket and someone that makes reads quickly to negate the rush.

But mobility CAN definitely help with avoiding sacks.

 

[Double Barrel]

Sometimes the mobility factor can buy an extra second or two by stepping into the pocket or making a defender miss a tackle. And that 1-2 extra seconds can give some time to get a receiver open. Schaub either hits his primary receiver or he's taking a sack/throwing it away. I'm not seeing anything from Yates that makes me think he can do it, either.

Case is the great unknown, the people's choice, and until he's given a chance, he's going to be the one that fans pin their hopes on until proven otherwise.

 

[Runner]

Are we really discussing if mobility is a good trait for a quarterback?

 

[Double Barrel]

Are we really discussing if mobility is a good trait for a quarterback?

lol! Next discussion: QB's that can read defenses! Good or bad? I'll hang up and listen.

 

[thunderkyss]

The Raiders also don't have Arian Foster and Ben Tate. We don't have to rely on Case Keenum to throw the ball 20 or 30 times.

I'm not saying any different. Case Keenum might be the guy for the job, but McClain is listing Case's mobility as a reason. They just got 10 sacks on Terrell Pryor because he's a mobile QB.

You can argue & say Keenum's not a dumbas5 like Pryor, or whatever...... I just don't think you can say, "KC sacked the QB 10 times last week" then turn right around & say, "Case's mobility will help him avoid the sack." When it was Pryor trying to get out of trouble that got him into trouble.

That and 2nd & 27 and 3rd & 48 didn't help much either.

 

[eriadoc]

I'm not saying any different. Case Keenum might be the guy for the job, but McClain is listing Case's mobility as a reason. They just got 10 sacks on Terrell Pryor because he's a mobile QB.

They didn't get 10 sacks on him because he's a mobile QB. They got 10 sacks on him because he's a running QB and they studied his tendencies. There's a difference between a running QB and a mobile QB. Peyton Manning is as mobile as a QB needs to be, for example.

 

[Corrosion]

No, we need someone with more mobility, a good feel for moving in the pocket and someone that makes reads quickly to negate the rush.

But mobility CAN definitely help with avoiding sacks.

I think its an issue where you have to have one or more redeeming qualities ....

You look at Peyton Manning , the guy gets the ball out in under 2 seconds on a large percentage of their pass plays. He has the ability to read defenses and manipulate them presnap and take advantage of just about any weakness a defense shows.

Aaron Rogers is a little more mobile with a cannon arm.


Drew Brees has an uncanny ability to escape pressure along with a strong accurate arm.


Brady isn't mobile but is about as accurate as they come , stands in the pocket and makes great reads and great throws even with pressure in his face.


Those are the consensus 4 best in the game today ..... they each have different things they do well. Two of them are about as mobile as Schaub ....


The Texans have a guy who can make throws only if everything else is perfect.

 

[HOU-TEX]

I think its an issue where you have to have one or more redeeming qualities ....

You look at Peyton Manning , the guy gets the ball out in under 2 seconds on a large percentage of their pass plays. He has the ability to read defenses and manipulate them presnap and take advantage of just about any weakness a defense shows.

Aaron Rogers is a little more mobile with a cannon arm.


Drew Brees has an uncanny ability to escape pressure along with a strong accurate arm.


Brady isn't mobile but is about as accurate as they come , stands in the pocket and makes great reads and great throws even with pressure in his face.


Those are the consensus 4 best in the game today ..... they each have different things they do well. Two of them are about as mobile as Schaub ....


The Texans have a guy who can make throws only if everything else is perfect.

One thing they all have in common is they aren't a puppet on strings with their coach being the puppeteer. All 3 of ours are on strings.

 

[Rey]

I'm not saying any different. Case Keenum might be the guy for the job, but McClain is listing Case's mobility as a reason. They just got 10 sacks on Terrell Pryor because he's a mobile QB.

You can argue & say Keenum's not a dumbas5 like Pryor, or whatever...... I just don't think you can say, "KC sacked the QB 10 times last week" then turn right around & say, "Case's mobility will help him avoid the sack." When it was Pryor trying to get out of trouble that got him into trouble.

That and 2nd & 27 and 3rd & 48 didn't help much either.

Mobility does not necessarily mean you are a running qb. I think both Peyton and Brady are more mobile than Schaub in the pocket. They slide, step up, keep their feet moving so they can step away from pressure.

Schaub doesn't move his feet well and crumbles with pressure around him. He does not move well in the pocket at all. Really, outside of straight lines he's probably the least mobile qb in the entire league. Dude is a true sloth.

Saying that keenums mobility won't help him escape sacks is an ignorant statement. Of course it could. Now there could be other factors that lead to sacks piling up, but mobility is definitely a trait that helps qb's get out of sacks.

And for all you know, if Pryor had less mobility he gets sacked more than 10 times.

 

[Rey]

I think its an issue where you have to have one or more redeeming qualities ....

You look at Peyton Manning , the guy gets the ball out in under 2 seconds on a large percentage of their pass plays. He has the ability to read defenses and manipulate them presnap and take advantage of just about any weakness a defense shows.

Aaron Rogers is a little more mobile with a cannon arm.


Drew Brees has an uncanny ability to escape pressure along with a strong accurate arm.


Brady isn't mobile but is about as accurate as they come , stands in the pocket and makes great reads and great throws even with pressure in his face.


Those are the consensus 4 best in the game today ..... they each have different things they do well. Two of them are about as mobile as Schaub ....


The Texans have a guy who can make throws only if everything else is perfect.

All of those guys are mobile in the pocket and will at times make moves to escape pressure to make throws. Those guys often bounce on the balls of their feet like boxers while they are making reads getting ready to throw.

Schaub is neither strong in the pocket (hard to bring down), mobile or savvy in the pocket.

 

[axman40]

No Kubiak is still the head coach and would go turtle mode sooner with Yates or Keenum.