GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
A Kubiak extension should even be considered this season. Make the playoffs first.
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Dennison Accepts
- Thread starter SAMURAITEXAN
- Start date
There, fixed that for ya!
DeMarCushPoll
UDFA
Bob McNair either has confidence in Kubs ability or he doesn't (extend or let go). If he feels that he has to take a wait and see approach then that shows a lack of confidence in his abilities IMO. If I was an owner and I couldn't decide whether to extend my coach before the last year of his contract then that would tell me that he's not the right one for my team and I would find someone else. I'm not suggesting a five year extension, but just enough to send the message that I think he's right for the job.
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
^^Yep.
If you can't decide whether to extend him or not, what does that tell you about the job Kubiak is doing? I'm glad McNair is not extending him (or at least doesn't look like he is). Kubiak hasn't earned it...yet. Needs to make the playoffs this year, or he's out.
If you can't decide whether to extend him or not, what does that tell you about the job Kubiak is doing? I'm glad McNair is not extending him (or at least doesn't look like he is). Kubiak hasn't earned it...yet. Needs to make the playoffs this year, or he's out.
houstonspartan
All Pro
No. Kubiak has not earned an extension. Period. He has the OC he wanted, so, clearly his contract status wasn't an issue.
A wait-and-see approach is EXACTLY what McNair should do. It says more about Kubiak's performance than it does McNair's faith in him as a coach. McNair has given Kubiak EVERYTHING, and has not mettled. And Kubiak, while improving the team, is still stumbling and bumbling his way to meidocrity every year.
Uh uh. I don't think so. Extension my ass.
Make him sweat.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
He could, but I don't want him to. I want someone to spend a much larger chunk of his time (particularly on game day) working with Matt, and to a lesser extent the #2 guy than a Head Coach should be able to.
With the criticism (largely valid) regarding Kubes and clock management, instant replay, and in-game X's and O's, I would really prefer he not add working with the QB to his list of responsibilities.
I also think that given the relationship between a QB and his coach (or at least when it's at it's best), it's a far better thing to have that coach be somebody other than the guy at the top of the food-chain.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
There are valid arguements for extending Kubiak's contract and there are valid arguements for not. I don't think firing him with 1 year left was ever an option.
I agree with the notion that McNair has a pretty darn good idea of whether he wants to keep Kubiak or find a new head coach after this season. I think the coaches, the players, the staff and the owner all like the quality of the players on the team now, they like the direction this team is heading and think we're on the verge of being a great team. And they want Kubiak to be the coach. It shows we're committed to what we're doing and who we're doing it with.
I also understand the view of letting him play this season out and see what happens. I think the players and coaches are playing with the playoffs in mind and wanting to get there and win the superbowl, they're definitely motivated enough to do that... but they all really like Kubiak and the thought that they're also playing for him and to keep him might (and i stress might) help. On the other hand you could just as easily say with a similar arguement that they're happy he's going to be the coach another 2-3 years and are going to play to prove he really is that guy.
What are the requisites for an extension for Kubiak? Winning season? Playoffs? If that's the case, let me ask you this: What if Oakland would have beat Baltimore in Week 17. Would that be grounds for a Kubiak extension? I mean we'd be in the playoffs with our first winning record. I could see people being exciting and wanting Kubiak to get an extension (maybe just a short one). My point is, you don't solely base a decision of this magnitude on whether another team beats another team or not. In this instance, you'd be saying McNair would can Kubiak and get a new HC. If the raiders beat the ravens... McNair would extend Kubiak's contract. That's hogwash.
My prediction is that McNair likes and supports Kubiak as our Head Coach. He loves the way this team has transformed over the last 4 years. He's dissappointed we haven't done better because he truly wants a winner here. He really likes the direction this team is going and the personnel we have. He'll always be looking for ways to improve our team (players/coaches/etc.). I think he's committed to having Kubiak our longterm coach and if the Texans get off to a quick start next season and the team looks really good, some contract extension talks begin. Maybe a deal happens during the season, maybe not. But I fully expect Kubiak to be this Coach going forward.
I agree with the notion that McNair has a pretty darn good idea of whether he wants to keep Kubiak or find a new head coach after this season. I think the coaches, the players, the staff and the owner all like the quality of the players on the team now, they like the direction this team is heading and think we're on the verge of being a great team. And they want Kubiak to be the coach. It shows we're committed to what we're doing and who we're doing it with.
I also understand the view of letting him play this season out and see what happens. I think the players and coaches are playing with the playoffs in mind and wanting to get there and win the superbowl, they're definitely motivated enough to do that... but they all really like Kubiak and the thought that they're also playing for him and to keep him might (and i stress might) help. On the other hand you could just as easily say with a similar arguement that they're happy he's going to be the coach another 2-3 years and are going to play to prove he really is that guy.
What are the requisites for an extension for Kubiak? Winning season? Playoffs? If that's the case, let me ask you this: What if Oakland would have beat Baltimore in Week 17. Would that be grounds for a Kubiak extension? I mean we'd be in the playoffs with our first winning record. I could see people being exciting and wanting Kubiak to get an extension (maybe just a short one). My point is, you don't solely base a decision of this magnitude on whether another team beats another team or not. In this instance, you'd be saying McNair would can Kubiak and get a new HC. If the raiders beat the ravens... McNair would extend Kubiak's contract. That's hogwash.
My prediction is that McNair likes and supports Kubiak as our Head Coach. He loves the way this team has transformed over the last 4 years. He's dissappointed we haven't done better because he truly wants a winner here. He really likes the direction this team is going and the personnel we have. He'll always be looking for ways to improve our team (players/coaches/etc.). I think he's committed to having Kubiak our longterm coach and if the Texans get off to a quick start next season and the team looks really good, some contract extension talks begin. Maybe a deal happens during the season, maybe not. But I fully expect Kubiak to be this Coach going forward.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
I think had Kubiak not gone after someone he knew and was in a lesser role in an organization that was willing to let him go things might've turned out differently.
With the number of children he has it's a big move to bet all your marbles on a lame duck coach for next year currently. But, I guess at the same time it's a promotion back to being an OC with someone he knows and worst case scenario Kubiak gets fired next year he's likely to be able to join Shannahan's staff quickly after.
Personnaly I'm more or less indifferent on the hiring. At least we've gained more experience at the position, I just hope he can keep the gas on the offense for 4 quarters.
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
What valid arguments are there for extending Kubiak's contract?
houstonspartan
All Pro
1) Poor widdle Gary couldn't find an offensive coach if he didn't have an extension.
2) Poor widdle Gary needs his ego stroked so he needs and extension to make him feel better.
Screw that. As I said: let widdle Gary Kubiak earn his extension.
OzzO
.. and then?
For me (if it matters):
1. winning season (range of 9+ wins)
2. playoffs (make it in)
3. split the series in the AFC South or at least 3 wins from someone (tying his best confrerence record)
All 3 of those things met - give a decent extension as he's on the right path.
2 out of 3 - provide a minimal extension, 1 mayyyybe 2 years as the potential is seen... and it's been seen for 4 years now - but by golly, this time we MEAN it.
1 out of 3 - buh bye.
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
For me, it's ten wins or your ass is out. If we don't make the playoffs next year with ten wins, then you'll get a pass. Anything less, and bye.
hookinreds
Veteran
Have we really seen the ZBS work the way it is supposed to? All schemes fail if they aren't executed correctly, and with the ZBS, it has to work all the time for it to be successful some of the time (if that makes since), because youre only going to get a couple yard on most of the handoffs and then break 10+ gainers on the others. If it doesn't work all the time, you are never going to see those 10+ breakers. While we were attempting it, I don't think it was successful enough on a down to down basis for the team to really reap the benefits. A change OL personnel can help address that though.
hookinreds
Veteran
I should have kept reading after your post as my thoughts have already clearly been expressed much better previously by other TT members.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
Dennison signs. Now, anyone from the Broncos Oline following Dennison to join the Texans?
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I'm PRO-Kubiak... and I kinda think he should earn his extension.
Play-offs or bust. The whole coaching staff needs to know that their livelihoods are on the line. The players need to know if they don't perform, the coaches are going to find someone who can and that there's no time for "developmental" players.
Play-offs or bust. The whole coaching staff needs to know that their livelihoods are on the line. The players need to know if they don't perform, the coaches are going to find someone who can and that there's no time for "developmental" players.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Actually, we might land 1 or 2 of them. I was reading through Rotoworld a day or so ago and came across this:
Unlike a lot of y'all, I could care less about the amount of Broncos we bring in here. We need interior Oline and these dudes would fit right in here. I would presume Smith will be watching the Broncos like a hawk this off season.
http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playernews.aspx?sport=NFL&line=166276
HuttoKarl
Veteran
Maybe this guy could help...
http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=5914
I truly like the line about him not giving up a sack in 16 games.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Chris Kuper was drafted in the 5th round during the 2006 NFL Draft. He won't be an unrestricted free agent this offseason meaning he'll either need to be cut or we'll need to trade for him. We gave Denver a 6th for Chris Myers (who was drafted in the 6th during 2005).
I'd totally be willing to trade a 2nd day pick for Kuper. They guy is exactly what we need, a perfect fit and knows the system, would be a starter from day 1 (and an improvement), is young and has had success starting. I believe to get draft a guy that we think might turn out the way he will, we'd be taking him Day 1. This would allow us to take BPA throughout the draft and get some playmakers on both offense and defense.
I'm a HUGE fan of trading mid to late round picks for proven young players that fit this team. Especially when it comes to the OL. Typically it takes a later round pick a few years to get up to NFL game speed, guys like Myers and Kuper are already there and we can hit the ground running instead of waiting for them to mature. OL is also a long term investment.
I'd totally be willing to trade a 2nd day pick for Kuper. They guy is exactly what we need, a perfect fit and knows the system, would be a starter from day 1 (and an improvement), is young and has had success starting. I believe to get draft a guy that we think might turn out the way he will, we'd be taking him Day 1. This would allow us to take BPA throughout the draft and get some playmakers on both offense and defense.
I'm a HUGE fan of trading mid to late round picks for proven young players that fit this team. Especially when it comes to the OL. Typically it takes a later round pick a few years to get up to NFL game speed, guys like Myers and Kuper are already there and we can hit the ground running instead of waiting for them to mature. OL is also a long term investment.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
If they offer him a low tender, then we can sign him away for a 5th round pick... If they aren't high on him, that is a likely scenario.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Denver was VERY interested in David Anderson last year and offered him something like 3 years for $4.5MM but we matched it. I've brought up replacing DA with more of a playmaker but I hate to sound like I want him gone b/c I really really like the guy. With that said, maybe there could be some sort of player trade involved. There's a connection that Denver's current staff likes(ed) DA... whether they filled the role he would fit or not I havn't looked. And I assume Kubiak/Dennison would like Kuper here. Just a thought...
Goldensilence
hipster elite
That was kind of my thought this year except I was more thinking DA for Hillis.
Really I am not enamored by DA as it seems like some Texans fans are. I've even seen some hilarious attempts to compare him to Wes Welker.
Truth is I doubt he's ever going to break into the top 3 WRs on this squad. He just doesn't have big time play making ability.
HuttoKarl
Veteran
and if Denver is truly going to dump the ZBS in favor of a power blocking game, it's quite possible they would explore a trade for Kuper.
I agree. Wouldn't mind more of a play maker at the slot.
sbalderrama
Noob
Being able to consistently grab 3rd down passes for 1st downs is just as valuable as "big time play making ability" IMO.
We don't let andersen see the field that often, so it's difficult for me to judge how big his play-making abilities are. From what I HAVE seen, he's good in over-the-middle catches that result in 1st downs and I've VERY rarely, if ever seen him drop the ball.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
One thing is certain about DA is that he was good enough to get an offer from other NFL team which explains we are not the only one seeing DA's value.
Go Texans!!!
Go Texans!!!
Bronco Texan II
Practice Squad
I am sure McDaniels looks at DA as a Welker type WR. He could do wonders in McDs offense. I bet their would be trader oppurtunities if they were brougth up.
I like David Anderson, as a player & a person. I think he's a Texan through & through. I agree that we don't maximize his abilities here. & I can definitely see why other teams would be interested him.
All that being said, If Jacoby is getting more snaps, that would mean Jacoby beat him out while being in Kubiak's dog house.
If Jacoby is getting less snaps, that would mean Jacoby has been able to do more with less.
If Dennison had visions of DA in his offense... I doubt we'll let him go, & I'll be excited to see more 3 WR sets.
Goatcheese
Texan
Jones 277 snaps 14 games 27 receptions for 437 yards
Anderson 396 snaps 16 games 38 receptions for 370 yards
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
49 career games played
1 play of 30+ yds (65 yd reception, no TD)
3 career TDs (receptions of 7 yds, 6 yds, 3 yds)
I've seen enough to confidently say he doesn't have the big play ability (at least want I would want). With that said, you're absolutely right: He is not afraid to go over the middle, he has great hands- rarely do we see him drop a pass, he's a guy that you throw the quick slant to to pick up the 1st down.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
jacoby has a higher average yard per catch. how bout td's
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Jacoby has 6 TDs for the year vs. Anderson's 0. But they are different types of WRs that are used completely differently so its hard to really compare them to each other.
Jacoby is going to stretch the field more and catch longer passes, Anderson is going to catch shorter passes for less yards. Just by design.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
which do you think is easier to replace? i think jj is more valuble than DA. i like DA but if we can move him i say do it. if not i don't have problem with DA being on the team.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
We are fairly well loaded with good recievers, and should stay that way if at all possible. That means we don't have to spend time or effort in free agency or the draft on them. We got tons of other positions that need attention.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
the thoery is moving anderson to denver for o-line assistance. i say do it because he can be replaced. maybe by a FA or late rd pick. cinci gave up on walter right? maybe we hit on someone unexpected.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
I'd trade Anderson for a good O-lineman, if someone wanted to make that trade. I'm not sure I'd trade him for a draft pick though. He wouldn't command a very high pick, and chances of getting someone good in the lower rounds is kind of a crap shoot.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
I kind of sense that Kuper may follow Dennison to join the Texans. Should this happens, we may not need to trade DA for O-line. I agree with Thorn on trading later rd draft pick for DA.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
I doubt Denver flat out releases Kuper. I'd like to see us trade David Anderson plus the 6th rd pick from SD (Travis Johnson) to Denver for Chris Kuper. Kuper starts at LG, Myers at C and Caldwell at RG. Pitts, Studdard, White and Brisiel battle as backups. First round we go DB, hopefully Earl Thomas. 2nd round we take Dexter McCluster and then in the 3rd go with a power RB(Matthews/Gerhart). Our offense would dominate and our defense would finally get a playmaker in the secondary.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
I am not certain about CBA situation. Does Kuper becomes RFA or he still be UFA in 2010?
Jackie Chiles
Veteran
This is the 2nd post I have seen advocating the trading of David Anderson plus a pick to the Broncos for one of their players. Why the hate? Anderson is more valuable than people realize and we do not need to give him up to get Kuper or the other player I saw mentioned (Hillis).
Jackie Chiles
Veteran
Pretty sure he is a RFA so we or any other team can sign him to an offer sheet. I will be surprised to see the Broncos tender him more than the minimum or match the offer because I believe they are going in a different direction with the O-line. Therefore it will cost the team a 5th round pick. Washington or here are his most likely destinations.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
Honestly if we look past the Jaws impersonation, the String dance TD celebration (which you didn't see this year because he had NO TDs), and how fun he is in the locker room, he's at best a 4th string WR. He's not likely to ever break to into the top 3 and he isn't anywhere near a threat in the return game.
IMO if you can get a guy that can start on the OL or give us a boost in our struggling running game for a 4th string WR and a late round pick. You make the move.
Hate? I dunno maybe I just can't see the David Anderson fan fare? Maybe I'm missing the valuable part he brings to the offense that is irreplaceable?
b0ng
Bad Hombre
I agree, if somebody is willing to give us a player who is going to start on our O-line (Or a safety!) for David Anderson, I say do it.
There is no way a team will give us a starter for David Anderson, unless it is in the form of a draft pick not from the 5th round or later.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
IMO, why attempt to make changes in an area that's arguably our strongest? He's got great hands and he's been pretty good at moving the chains on 3rd downs. Save a couple, I don't think anyone's irreplaceable.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
DA is actually one of my favorite players on the team. It's just after 8 years and no playoff appearences, I'm finally become hardened as a fan and am over any sentimental feelings towards keeping a player because I like him.
I only bring up DA for two reasons: (1) there's the connection with Denver because they offered him a 3 yr $4.5MM contract last year and I think they'd give us a 7th rd draft pick? and (2) His value to OUR team is that he routinely catches the ball and makes short yardage 1st downs. I think we can just as easily find a player to do what he does but also has the big play ability to make the first guy miss and take it to the house (also probably cheaper).
I also like Slaton a lot. But after his rookie success, I was wondering if he would become Clinton Portis 2.0. Came into Denver as a 2nd round pick, had two successful seasons and then they traded him for Champ Bailey.
I'm just SO ready for this team to become great. Our offense moves the ball well and has great stats. We're very good... but I'm ready for the Offense to become ELITE. That includes getting a solid OL and at least one other playmaker, maybe two. I see a guy like Percy Harvin taking over DA's spot to be one. I also think getting the OL to perform 1st rate is vitally important for our offense and running game. That's when our RB's will really take off, another playmaker at RB would be great. So I see 3 new players for our offense making a huge difference and taking us to the ELITE stage. That can be done (easily) this offseason. OL through FA because they're Game Ready and 2 of the first 3 or 4 picks go to the playmakers on Offense RB/WR.
I only bring up DA for two reasons: (1) there's the connection with Denver because they offered him a 3 yr $4.5MM contract last year and I think they'd give us a 7th rd draft pick? and (2) His value to OUR team is that he routinely catches the ball and makes short yardage 1st downs. I think we can just as easily find a player to do what he does but also has the big play ability to make the first guy miss and take it to the house (also probably cheaper).
I also like Slaton a lot. But after his rookie success, I was wondering if he would become Clinton Portis 2.0. Came into Denver as a 2nd round pick, had two successful seasons and then they traded him for Champ Bailey.
I'm just SO ready for this team to become great. Our offense moves the ball well and has great stats. We're very good... but I'm ready for the Offense to become ELITE. That includes getting a solid OL and at least one other playmaker, maybe two. I see a guy like Percy Harvin taking over DA's spot to be one. I also think getting the OL to perform 1st rate is vitally important for our offense and running game. That's when our RB's will really take off, another playmaker at RB would be great. So I see 3 new players for our offense making a huge difference and taking us to the ELITE stage. That can be done (easily) this offseason. OL through FA because they're Game Ready and 2 of the first 3 or 4 picks go to the playmakers on Offense RB/WR.
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