Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

David Carr: Amongst the worst in 40 years

NATHANHALE said:
"And we could go ON AND ON about why/who/what is to blame for 2005. But after 3 years...Carr was among the best in MANY categories. The only one that really beat Carr after 3 was Marino (but go figure, right).'

Why don't you try backing up your posts with facts/sources, instead of BS. I needed 2 pair of boots to read the statements above-- name a few of the 'many categories' and your Marino statement/what is this?
Click to expand...


I am still waiting from a response from you on my post
 
Hate to bump this silly thread back on top. Here is a newish article from the AP that has some stuff relevant to this unnecessary new Carr thread:

Link: USA Today

While all eyes will be on Williams on defense, the pressure on offense will fall squarely on the shoulders of last year's most-sacked man, David Carr. A former No. 1 pick himself, Carr has yet to live up to lofty expectations.

He had his best season in 2004, with 3,531 yards passing with 16 touchdowns, but regressed last season and often looked shell-shocked.

Yet the Texans expressed their faith in him by exercising an $8 million contract option that will keep him in Houston for three more seasons. The decision likely had a lot to do with Kubiak, a former quarterback who liked Carr from the start.

"He has all the physical tools that it takes to be successful in this league," Kubiak said. "Does David have to play better than he played last year? Of course he does. We all have to. But we expect a lot of him, and we're going to try to build this football team around him and help him be successful."

Kubiak, who backed up John Elway in Denver and later coached him, said quarterbacks often "play their best football from year 5 to 11 or 12" - exactly the phase of his career Carr is entering.

"I'm hoping his best is in front of him, and the sooner the better," Kubiak said.

Carr has already at work learning Kubiak's new offense, and top receiver Andre Johnson will be joined by Eric Moulds, who was traded from Buffalo.

After struggling through his worst season in 2005, Johnson has been rejuvenated by the mere presence of Moulds. He is giddy over having a mentor as well as another receiving threat, and hopes are high that their chemistry will translate to on-field success.

Of course the key to all this will be Houston's ability to assemble an effective offensive line.

It's unclear what combination of players the Texans will line up to protect Carr, but the unit will be anchored by veteran Steve McKinney at left guard. They added tackle Ephraim Salaam in free agency and gargantuan tackles Eric Winston of Miami and Charles Spencer from Pittsburgh in the third round of the draft. Winston is 6-7, 307, and Spencer is 6-5, 352.

The group could get a boost from the hiring of Mike Sherman, a longtime offensive line coach who was fired as Green Bay's head coach after last season. Sherman will be Kubiak's assistant head coach for offense.

"I think we'll be very good up front," Kubiak said. "The question is: Which five guys is it going to be? Our competition in that position at training camp will probably be about as fierce as any position that we have."
Click to expand...

Click on the link. Lots of good stuff there.

As for the topic of the post, I don't think any QB, rookie or otherwise would have had impressive numbers in the scheme we had with these players around him. Most of them would have been killed, maimed and/or crying tears in the locker room in front of the TV cameras.

I will put this link in a new thread so that you don't have to respond to it here.
 
Just for fun, here's a comparison of Carr's last 2 years with Pastorini's last two years in Houston.

Total Yds: Pastorini 4563/Carr 6019
Completion %: Pastorini 52.2%/Carr 60.83%
Touchdowns: Pastorini 30/Carr 30
Interceptions: Pastorini 35/Carr 25
Avg per completion: Pastorini 13.2 yds/13.48 yds

Houston loved Pastorini and ambivalent about Carr. Pastorini was lucky he had Earl to cover his numbers (which were among the best of his career these last 2 years).
 
Wolf said:
I am still waiting from a response from you on my post
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I can't find the post you're talking about--only one I saw was the one about 'great' and I answered that and you answered me back--please let me know...thanks
 
I find name and tagline a little inauspicious...TwinSisters
Houston's #1 True Fan. I guess a negative outlook means you never have to be disappointed when you wrong, can just blame stats or luck or team playing over their head or.....:pigfly:
 
Personally, I think Twin Sisters is making up statistics.

Here are 4 different' player's stats after 4 years in the NFL. 3 of them won the Superbowl at some point in their careers and one if them is David Carr.

Completions - Attempts - Completion Perc - Yards - TDs - Ints
522 - 1079 - 48.4 - 6739 - 41 - 73
558 - 961 - 58.1 - 7223 - 44 - 33
746 - 1365 - 54.7 - 8621 - 38 - 54
941 - 1528 - 57.8 - 10624 - 48 - 53


I've ranked them by number of yards. Frankly, Carr's numbers look the most productive to me. He's the one with 10,000 yards and the most touchdowns. Bradshaw looks like a pathetic loser and it amazes me he kept his job... he only had a 48% completion rate in his first 4 years and a ton of int's... and no, those weren't mostly in his rookie season. Dilfer's TD/Int ratio (38/54) isn't that good either but isn't as bad as Bradshaw's. Jim McMahon never finished in the top 10 in any normal category but he was throwing TD's at a better rate.

Actually, looking at the rate that touchdowns and ints were thrown (% of attempts):

McMahon - 4.6% TD's/3.4% INTS
Dilfer - 2.8% TD's/4.0% INTS
Bradshaw - 3.8% TD's/6.8% INTS
Carr - 2.9% TD's/3.3% INTS

Of those 4, he's the best for not throwing INTS but the second worst at throwing TD's. Interesting.
 
TheCD said:
The problem that I have with your contention of those teams is that the only one that had a comparable situation to us was Tim Couch and the Browns, them also being an expansion team. Obviously we've have offensive line problems, and I'll take a bet with you any day that a team with major offensive line problems like ours will never garner better than a .500 record until those problems are fixed.

There's a reason why just about everyone in the professional sports community thinks Carr has what it takes...maybe you'd see that something too if you had as much experience as they do.
Click to expand...

Howdy CD!

Jim Zorn played for an expansion team.
Dan Pastorini's line was so bad that he got his ribs cracked and lungs' punctured ...yet managed to hang his hat on some type of personal achievement.
Manning got beat up so bad that he had sit out an entire season.
Joe Namath's knees were so beat up, that opposing lineman cringed when he went down after his 1970 season. YET on a team that went 3-11 in 1975 two years before he hangs it up...Namath cracks the 10 spot for yards thrown in a season.

Here's a Pop quiz:
Q:
Could an old beat up cripple from Alabama, that was two steps removed from retirement, do better amongst his peers then David Carr in his prime?
A:
Yes.

Q:
Who was his coach?
A:
Charley Winner.

Q:
Who in the hell is that?
A:
Beats me. Obviously it was a problem with the coaching and the system they were using.
 
TwinSisters said:
Howdy CD!

Jim Zorn played for an expansion team.
Dan Pastorini's line was so bad that he got his ribs cracked and lungs' punctured ...yet managed to hang his hat on some type of personal achievement.
Manning got beat up so bad that he had sit out an entire season.
Joe Namath's knees were so beat up, that opposing lineman cringed when he went down after his 1970 season. YET on a team that went 3-11 in 1975 two years before he hangs it up...Namath cracks the 10 spot for yards thrown in a season.

Here's a Pop quiz:
Q:
Could an old beat up cripple from Alabama, that was two steps removed from retirement, do better amongst his peers then David Carr in his prime?
A:
Yes.

Q:
Who was his coach?
A:
Charley Winner.

Q:
Who in the hell is that?
A:
Beats me. Obviously it was a problem with the coaching and the system they were using.
Click to expand...

what are you talking about?
 
NATHANHALE said:
Carr's legacy entering his 5th year is that he has been unable to perform his best because of the 'circumstances' around him. He has not even been expected to do well when all was OK around him, an unfortunate result of zero accountability. One has to wonder now-in this 5th year with so much change around him-if Carr can find 'it.' IMO, it will be very sad --regardless of anything else this season--if 'accountabilty' is still not part of the equation...
Click to expand...

Thing about this is that David Carr is entering territory that not single a team has done since the merger... and most likely before.

4 seasons as a starter going into his fifth, without a single personal accomplishment underneath his belt.

The rest of those fellas have something, SOMETHING to cling too.. like Mark Malone at least had two winning seasons to warrant keeping him as a starter. ( granted he had some injuries to deal with also, BUT that would only push him ahead of Carr if it was a major factor )
--

On the ad hominem stuff; well what can you say? It is to be expected.
http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/person.html

These should be added to every single message board, but for some reason it just gets ignored. No big deal either. Now if you say **** or **** or **** or **** or I want some *********** with that. Well! That's different.
( and yes I just used the "*" )
 
Wolf said:
what are you talking about?
Click to expand...

I am trying to keep up here I got in late ...sorry.

CD said these other guys don't count because they didn't play on expansion teams or had good offensive lines.

Zorn, Pastorini, Manning could count as the worst lines ever. ( Don't know for sure though, just going off of what they have said in the past )

( Zorn expansion Seahawks 1976 )
 
i hear ya..

bottom line is I know people either love or hate Carr.. I am middle of the road on him.. I think he has the tools but has to have the coaching to get his mind into it.

I personally think his progress got hindered by not having a legit NFL TE...I am not saying Carr will be the next coming of joe montana but I just want solid play and we should see it this season
 
disaacks3 said:
A BIG fact, that's conveniently overlooked for this little comparison is the changes in NFL scheduling.

Carr is the only QB in that list to have to take an expansion team through its beginning years w/o the benefit of a TRUE SoS adjustment.

Since the NFL wanted to make sure that EVERY team in EVERY division played each other every x years, it subsequently left only 2 GAMES to adjust for the previous years success / failure.

As a result, this year's Texans have to play the 8th hardest schedule in the NFL, despite finishing last season ranked #32.

To re-iterate the point TL13 was making, being in the AFC South has added to Carr's woes, since the Texans aren't getting the schedule adjustments that they would have in years past.

...don't even get me started on our O-Line , blocking scheme changes, etc.:brickwall
Click to expand...


Maybe. Maybe that's why Malone never coudl do anything having to play against the Bengals, Browns, and Oilers while they were in great shape.

Then we got Zorn and the Seahawks that had to play against the Super Bowl Raiders, Super Bowl Broncos, Fouts Chargers, and weaker Chiefs twice a season. 6 tough, 2 okay - 8 divisional games

While Carr plays 4 teams with only one that even thought about going to a Super Bowl. 2 tough, 4 winnable - 6 divisional games

So if we factor in Strength of Schedule for every 4 year starter, where do you think that will leave Carr then? Two steps over Malone and sitting right next Jim Harbaugh then?

I don't know that much about the details of the SoS changes, but that is certainly a good thing to look at.
 
TwinSisters said:
Thing about this is that David Carr is entering territory that not single a team has done since the merger... and most likely before.

4 seasons as a starter going into his fifth, without a single personal accomplishment underneath his belt.

The rest of those fellas have something, SOMETHING to cling too.. like Mark Malone at least had two winning seasons to warrant keeping him as a starter. ( granted he had some injuries to deal with also, BUT that would only push him ahead of Carr if it was a major factor )
--


Hmmmm, could he lay claim to surviving more sacks per year than any other active QB?? Just wondering.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
gpshafer_1976 said:
THIS?

AGAIN?

Congratulations, Twin Sisters!

You are the proud owner of about the 1,000th thread bashing David Carr.

You should feel like you truly have an "eye" for the game.

(A third eye, that is)

Can the mods lock out the Carr Bashing threads AT LEAST until somewhere in the middle of the season after we've all had a chance to see him in a system that doesn't emulate Capers' pee-wee league playcalling?

You guys are risking a lot here. If Carr goes out and "wows" the league this year, you're going to look awfully silly. I think I'll start a list of all the bashers and keep it for the future when you back pedal and post your "Way to go, David!" threads. There'll be a big "calling out" party by yours truly.

Thanks again for the top-notch analysis. :shades:
Click to expand...

BAh! This isn't again.

I looked to see if anyone has compared David Carr's performance to other NFL QBs over the past years. There wasn't one, so here it is. It's not a open ended bash because I didn't state 'Carr sucks' and then walked off.

I am looking at 4 year starters and why they have the job for the 5th.

I mean did you already know that Joe Montana called him out for not doing anything in the past 4 years to warrant a starting job in the NFL? Did you know that there are only three QBs since the Super Bowl era, that have started a 5th season without doing much on his own to be awarded that opportunity?

Chances are you didn't, so it's something new to talk about. That's a good thing. Healthy stuff to talk about.

So this thread is about what he has done, not what he is going to do... I got the "what Carr needs to do" thread on the drafting board right now. I should have it ready by next week after this one goes dies out.

It's okay to talk about David Carr. He plays for the Texans. It's a Texans' message board. It should be expected to have a running QB thread 24 hours a day.

( even on Sundays )
 
Wolf said:
Kubiak is the man that has to get into David's head and get him to have that cocky swagger that a QB has to have (just like Garner needs to get into Brad Lidge's head) and to trust his teammates and his teammates trust him. If Kubiak can't do that, well McNair made a gamble that didn't pay off (keeping Carr) and Dan Reeves made a mistake watching game film on Carr and gave the wrong advice.. it could happen.
and if that is the case Brady Quinn here we come.
Click to expand...

I am not sure what that Lidge stuff is about :), but being wrong is certainly a possibility.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/slead.htm

I found this article a few days ago while trying to track something else down. It's Bill Walsh weighing in on the Carr/Harrington debate prior to the draft.

It doesn't really say anything important, but it's neat to look at if you have never seen it before. The big difference ( obviously ) between this look at Carr and the Reeves look... is that Reeves had a chance to look at Carr in the NFL.
 
"It's okay to talk about David Carr. He plays for the Texans. It's a Texans' message board. It should be expected to have a running QB thread 24 hours a day."

I'm assuming you were not around the board last year leading up to the 2005 season, so if you were--just ignore this post. Then, there were 2 primary posting groups, the 'Chicken Littles' and the "Homers,' and the big arguement was the state of the team heading into 2005. The 'CLs' were predicting doom and gloom and 'Hs' were predicting a good season that might even include the playoffs--both sides giving their reasons. While the 'banter' was heated and started after the 2004 season, the talk between the 2 sides ended very quickly once the regular season began and it became obvious that the 'play' we saw in pre-season was not a 'mirage' but-instead- the real thing. The 'CLs' IMO showed a lot of class because they never called anyone out, never exploited 'told you so,' etc. and went on with life. No, they never stooped so low as to make a thread of 'Hs' that made their life miserable and disagreed with them, just to flaunt in their faces when it became obvious who was right. Conversely, most of the 'Hs' disappeared from the board altogether or posted little as the 'onslaught' continued and-only a 'handful' even bothered to acknowledge they'd been wrong. But that was OK because there was no 'nose rubbing.'

This season the debate-for the most part-is about Carr-again there are 2 sides and I would bet those sides are pretty much made up of the same folks(plus new ones) from last year. Again, one side (Carr's) thinks they are the only ones who can post on the board and--once again--they stretchhhhhhhhhh the rules of the board with their banter,insinuations,etc. However,IMO, this board stooped to a 'low' today when a poster was allowed to post a thread that put people on a 'hit' list who say things about Carr they don't like...And, you can bet---that if Carr does well this year, there will not be enough band width to handle all the 'told you so's.'

People that visit this board have commented about the 'lack' of fan discussion, and posters even noted today people that have not been around in awhile. Could it be because of the 'rampant' disrespect for other peoples opinion, and the relentless bashing?...good luck everybody! Here's to a winning season and may Carr do well, so long......
 
texan279 said:
You can't judge whether Carr will be a good QB based on him "cracking a column"...
Click to expand...

Then how do propose to do it? Judge one on what they have done yesterday and the day before or what they could do tomorrow?

However I do agree... it doesn't mean that he is going to be as bad tomorrow as he was the past 1,460 some odd days. It's sorta like having your favourite horse getting all sickly and pale in the gums. You need to check the mercury to judge if he is just having a down day or if he indeed is in trouble. That little stat will let you know if you should just rub the gums a little or call the vet.

And this horse in baaaaad shape. It don't look good...
 
texflex513 said:
i say thats pretty good for a guy who has had to go thru what he has with no blocking Brady/Favre/Manning any of those guys would have had just as many problems. Give the guy a chance with a O line who has worked together and has chemistry instead of a patch work line of guys who didnt know where they'll line up every week:twocents:
Click to expand...

well not really. Favre is 10th on TDs thrown, 1st attempts, 1st in completions, and 3rd in yards. His line was patched up ( lost both his guards . His team went 4-12. Sherman was partially booted because of leadership problems )

Sherman and the line is all they talk about half the time
http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/index.php?ntid=92064&ntpid=1

from a few hours ago... don't worry if you miss it... there will be another one tomorrow.
3. Sherman is not the reason the Packers are having a miserable year. Poor health, not coaching ineptitude, explains Green Bay’s 1-7 record.

Reciting the Packers’ significant injuries is a "painful" exercise. Green Bay lost star receiver Javon Walker on opening day. In addition, backup running back Najeh Davenport was lost for the season in game 5; star halfback Ahman Green was lost for the year in game 6 (after having missed the end of game 4 and all of game 5); nickel back Earl Little and fourth wide receiver Terrence Murphy both were lost for the year midway through game 4; wide receiver Robert Ferguson has not played since the second quarter of game 6 and it is not known when he will return; starting center Mike Flanagan missed games 5 and 6, and parts of several others; starting linebacker Na’il Diggs has missed six games and counting; tight end David Martin has missed three games and counting; and starting tackle Chad Clifton missed most of game 4. And those are just the injuries I remember off the top of my head.

We all know that injuries are part of the game. Every team has to deal with them to some extent. But it is hard to succeed when injuries completely deplete an entire position. Just ask Bill Belichick. His Super Bowl champion Patriots are 4-4. Is that because Belichick has slipped as a coach? Of course not. New England is struggling because injuries have decimated the Patriots’ secondary.
Click to expand...
http://www.jsonline.com/blog/index.aspx?id=76&entry=11618&month=11&year=2005

this is just from a fan blog... ALL OF THAT and he still makes the top ten. that's only half the season. It still got worse for them... except for Gado's break out. But that didn't do much to save them from a 48-3 beating from the Ravens.

Note: that's the same Flanagan that is supposed to come and anchor our line.
I sure hope they know what they are doing and he can make at least 16 games.
 
Sco-tai said:
Yo, Twisted Sister...or..twin...whatever.

Back off a bit, my friend.

2006 will be the ultimate test. Until then, I'd call it an "incomplete" at this point.

Until 2006 is in the books...Carr & the Texans have my FULL support!

Go Texans!

DSP
Click to expand...

Here ya go cousin
http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/TT/qvt1.html

The Texans are going to have my support until they shut the door on the Mayflower ...or DC-8's start their holding patterns. Whichever one comes first. Both are possible I suppose.
 
Buzz said:
I guess some people have forgotten what Kubiak did for Plummer in Denver, helping to make a better player out of a guy who was in a bad situation and disliked by some people in Arizona. I expect him to so the same thing for Carr now that he's here.
Click to expand...

No I haven't forgotten. He had two QBs at Denver post-Elway. Brian Griese and Jake Plummer.

One is a solid back-up now and Plummer had two okay seasons in Arizona without Kubiak.

Plummer is far from universally accepted in Denver though... but I could be wrong. I know I heard plenty O folks saying he cost them the game against the Steelers. I have no idea if it is true or not.
 
dat_boy_yec said:
Alex Smith had a horrendous yr. Carr never had anything close to Smith's yet you wanna sit there and say Carr is one of the worst QB's of all time. Get off it man, how can you seriously sit there seeing the big picture home in on Carr and lay the blame on him like that.
Click to expand...

yeah Alex Smith... I saw a guy break him down as one of the worst rookie performances in the modern NFL ( post salary cap ).

and we are looking at the big picture. I am looking at him as to where he sits right now, after 4 years of starting in the NFL. Not where is going to be in 20 or what if he had this or what if he had that or why he is the amongst the worst. Just looking at where he stands right now.

You couldn't call him the worst QB ever, because those got traded, tossed, or waived after failing. Only a small handful of them played 4 straight without a danger of being cut, waived, traded, or tossed.

---

as for 'why you do it'... it's because ever so now and then I learn something. This particular thread netted me at least one gem about strength of schedule differences. I didn't think about that before hand all that much, but now I think I will. You know, then of course, you see a lot of other takes too that are somewhat beneficial in some form or another. Then other's are just kinda funny.
 
South Texan said:
Hmmmm, could he lay claim to surviving more sacks per year than any other active QB?? Just wondering.
Click to expand...

It's possible. I have seen a debate that says Manning was hit the most since the Super Bowls started

We didn't start to log sacks until 1982 officially so there is a lot debate about it prior to that year. Manning's carreer was already over by 82 ( and in Houston ).

http://www.footballresearch.com/articles/frpage.cfm?topic=2sakrace

There are several articles here that cover that topic. A lot of good stuff about statistics too about the stories they tell and don't tell so well.
 
I'm in the same boat with Wolf here. I'm just in the middle. I don't love Carr or hate him. But I do still have confidence that he can be a good QB. We've seen QB's lately put it all together after a few years in the league. Look at Drew Brees and Matt Hasselbeck. Kubiak even said himself that QB's generally blossom in years 5 to 11.

Now, here's my main question. What did Carr do so wrong that sent so many people overboard? After the 2004 season Carr was coming off of a season with 3500 yards passing and a QB rating of 83.5. At that point nobody was really bashing Carr or saying he was the main problem with the team. Suddenly after one "bad" season he's the worst QB in 40 years? I put bad in quotes because I personally wouldn't say Carr had a bad season in 2005. He still had 60% completions, and more TD's than INT's. I think many people had it set in thier mind that if Carr didn't step up big in year 4, that he would be a bust. Let's not forget how bad the team was a whole either.

That's about all I can say. I'm not a big Carr homer at all. I just don't see why so many people are down on him. Kubiak seems to be happy with Carr under center. Reeves suggested we keep him. Maybe I'm missing something.
 
TwinSisters said:
I am trying to keep up here I got in late ...sorry.

CD said these other guys don't count because they didn't play on expansion teams or had good offensive lines.

Zorn, Pastorini, Manning could count as the worst lines ever. ( Don't know for sure though, just going off of what they have said in the past )

( Zorn expansion Seahawks 1976 )
Click to expand...



Perhaps you misunderstood me. I was referring to the comparisons between Boller and Fiedler. And regardless, you're refuting my argument with points I didn't even make. I said a team with major offensive line problems would never break .500. I never said that the QB couldn't achieve anything.


The funny thing about the points you make are that the QB's you're referring to all had time to develop on a team before being "crippled" and past their prime.

Either way, you're comparisons of Pastorini, Manning and Namath just help to prove the fact that our QB is one of the toughest players to ever step foot in the NFL...

Just give him 2 years to prove something. If he's done nothing by then, then I'll gladly concede defeat. I'm not saying he's the greatest ever, I'm just looking at his play through a coach's perspective.
 
NATHANHALE said:
"It's okay to talk about David Carr. He plays for the Texans. It's a Texans' message board. It should be expected to have a running QB thread 24 hours a day."

I'm assuming you were not around the board last year leading up to the 2005 season, so if you were--just ignore this post. Then, there were 2 primary posting groups, the 'Chicken Littles' and the "Homers,' and the big arguement was the state of the team heading into 2005. The 'CLs' were predicting doom and gloom and 'Hs' were predicting a good season that might even include the playoffs--both sides giving their reasons. While the 'banter' was heated and started after the 2004 season, the talk between the 2 sides ended very quickly once the regular season began and it became obvious that the 'play' we saw in pre-season was not a 'mirage' but-instead- the real thing. The 'CLs' IMO showed a lot of class because they never called anyone out, never exploited 'told you so,' etc. and went on with life. No, they never stooped so low as to make a thread of 'Hs' that made their life miserable and disagreed with them, just to flaunt in their faces when it became obvious who was right. Conversely, most of the 'Hs' disappeared from the board altogether or posted little as the 'onslaught' continued and-only a 'handful' even bothered to acknowledge they'd been wrong. But that was OK because there was no 'nose rubbing.'

This season the debate-for the most part-is about Carr-again there are 2 sides and I would bet those sides are pretty much made up of the same folks(plus new ones) from last year. Again, one side (Carr's) thinks they are the only ones who can post on the board and--once again--they stretchhhhhhhhhh the rules of the board with their banter,insinuations,etc. However,IMO, this board stooped to a 'low' today when a poster was allowed to post a thread that put people on a 'hit' list who say things about Carr they don't like...And, you can bet---that if Carr does well this year, there will not be enough band width to handle all the 'told you so's.'

People that visit this board have commented about the 'lack' of fan discussion, and posters even noted today people that have not been around in awhile. Could it be because of the 'rampant' disrespect for other peoples opinion, and the relentless bashing?...good luck everybody! Here's to a winning season and may Carr do well, so long......
Click to expand...


shall I imagine such a reasoned post from the Glorious reign of Chicken Little, I think that when one pats oneself on back one should look at facts. Capers refused to make Chris Palmer help David Carr after season 2, Capers told Palmer to help Carr grow as a QB. Palmer refused to step aside and become QB Coach, Capers then got the most ineffectual OC/DC combo he could find and installed them to run team.

Q. WHERE WAS THE QB COACH MOST TEAMS HAVE


A THERE WASN"T ONE

So David Carr had to learn from his mistakes and try and get better all by himself, rather then getting his ***** ragged by all the CL's (or should we say holier than thous). They should have started a fan club for a QB who had no help, no QB Coach, no REAL OC was sacked more than most QBs will starting with little league.

Much is made of comment Carr made about team, ever been in a bad situation and not want to rant and rave and piss and moan. BECAUSE IS A CLASSLESS WAY TO ACT, David was not misleading fans, stupid or brain damaged. He was trying to remain positive because he saw a stretch of 6 games we lost BECAUSE OF COACHING, sure players should execute but when you don't have a game plan that works and you have little leadership from coaching staff...WHAT DO YOU DO....THE BEST YOU CAN.

Call me a HOMER, ain't gonna bother me. I saw David Carr in 1st season show flashes of why we drafted him, then mostly saw the machinations of Palmer and his 3 and out game plan. We blame QBs for losses and when he wins we give him all the credit, it is at end of day a team sport consisting of coaching team and playing team. when Coaching team fails to do its job it all falls on playing team.

Right now I have the highest of expectations for 2006 because Carr has a QB coaching him who knew what was wrong, Kubiak has no intention of repeating past mistakes by previous coaching staff, he won't promise playoffs or a Super Bowl right away. BUT he says he wants to win consistently week in and week out, not every 2-3 weeks or 1 game out of 6 like before. Do we go to head of class not right away, BUT when players win under Kubiak and see what he is doing working more and more will give themselves over to what he is asking. The Texans will continue to improve to point, we will be a playoff contender EVERY year and will be picked to make playoffs every year.:yahoo: :yahoo:
 
NATHANHALE said:
I'm assuming you were not around the board last year leading up to the 2005 season, so if you were--just ignore this post. :::
People that visit this board have commented about the 'lack' of fan discussion, and posters even noted today people that have not been around in awhile. Could it be because of the 'rampant' disrespect for other peoples opinion, and the relentless bashing?...good luck everybody! Here's to a winning season and may Carr do well, so long......
Click to expand...

nope. I spent the first season away. For the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th I was tied up with the Packers and Seahawks media. So most of my Texan talks were between myself and my trusty set of Toshiba CRTs. I got all of my news from the NFL and counted on HoustonProFootball to keep me in touch with non-McNair sponsored news. I had to hop on here before the draft because so many people where bothering me with questions about Reggie Bush and making me feel bad that I couldn't answer a few particular questions about the Texans. ( one of those of course, that I remember, was why in the heck is Houston so up on that all-WAC boy Carr. Hence I plug into each Carr debate since, to tumble the cubik so to speak )

As for the folks getting on your nerves or vice-versa... eh that's always going to be part of the community experience. I have actually been on a University sponsored field trip of various message boards with an anthropolgist pointing out similiarities between the social interactions of Pan paniscus, Pan troglodytes, and the posting communities. Best $#$%%@ $500 dollars I've ever spent ( plus Computer Lab fees naturally ).
(( and that is saying something too! Because I have been to Amsterdam. Wooooweee I am telling ya. Whatever you want, however you want it was invented and patented in that small corner of the world ))

So the best thing I could tell ya is to try and stick to the material as best you can and try to avoid the sidearmed fling from the old greybeards as best you can.

Let me demonstrate from this excellent article from Keith Weiland on David Carr from back in the day:

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/scout/scout11.html

That is, if I ever get comfortable with that idea at all. Robert Herrick once advised the youthful to "Gather ye rosebuds while ye may," and the Houston Texans should take similar heed. "Rosebuds," in this case, are not limited to just quarterbacks. If General Manager Charley Casserly retains the first overall pick in the 2002 NFL Draft, that player will be expected to develop into one of the best, if not the best, player at that position in the entire league. He has to. If no such player exists in the draft, then Casserly's only choice is to trade down.
Click to expand...

The 2002 draft class for quarterbacks may be one of the weakest in recent memory, and that would still be true even if many of the top underclassmen declared eligibility. The play of Carr, after just four wins, albeit convincing, epitomizes that statement. To many, he has skyrocketed past other top senior quarterbacking prospects, like Oregon's Joey Harrington and Illinois' Kurt Kitner. This has happened so quickly only because a true stud quarterback does not exist in the college game this season.
Click to expand...

Interestingly, both coaches on the Texans' staff have experience with these two young quarterbacks - Head Coach Dom Capers with Collins and Offensive Coordinator Chris Palmer with Couch - so each has probably shared with Casserly their own firsthand knowledge of their past situations. Coming up empty in the search for a legitimate first-round quarterback this year, and knowing what pitfalls lie ahead even if they do find one, should make the decision to draft a player at another position a simple one.

So enjoy watching the strong arm and leadership abilities of David Carr as he outshines his WAC opponents, but unless he falls to the middle rounds of the draft, he will be the third-string quarterback for another NFL team next fall.
Click to expand...

Let's see... Heckle and Jeckle sharing their first hand knowledge with Woody Woodpecker on their past situations to make a simple decision? Well no wonder we ended up with 4 seasons of cartoons that could even make Admiral Hasley laugh.

Pretty clever fella for an Aggie wouldn't you think? Except he left one guy out... Randy Fasani.

http://www.thepresstribune.com/articles/2006/07/06/sports/local_sports/01fasani.txt

:hmmm: interesting story. Ran this month too!

Kittner ended up third string... Harrington most likely a 2nd.

Late blooming rose bush for sure.

---

P.S. also Heath Shuler is in Congress now and Ryan Leaf coaches football at one of those Texas A&M schools. Synchronicity... it's like electricity, you don't have to believe in it for it to work.
 
I remember reading an article about the whole 2002 draft and it is far from spectacular esp if you take out Roy Wilams of the Cowboys.

With the internet, I think there are tons of articles we could google to prove the point that a certain player will be a stud or a bust when they come out of college.

http://archive.profootballweekly.co...aft_2001/scoutingreports_qb.asp#QB David Carr
Summary: Has a chance to become a premier NFL quarterback if his release point does not lead to too many problems and he is brought along and utilized correctly. Could be the type of player you can build a team around if he is developed correctly.
Click to expand...


I mean that is an example that i can find stuff that says Carr could be great to build a team around.. I mean look into the future of 4 years, there is stuff right now that says Mario is going to be a beast there is stuff that says Mario is the next Sam Bowie.


Bottom line is I am holding judgement on Bashing Carr.. We have seen he can make the throws, I want to see if Kubiak can get him to make the right reads to go with the throws..

I want to see screens and slants to stop the pass rush, I want to see playaction passes also that freezes the defense. we already saw the hitch routes, run off of left tackle in predictable situations.. very vanilla offense due to the lack of pass blocking and no 2 way TE to threaten a defense that is playing cover 2 on us over and over.


If Carr has a horrible season with the weapons that has been added around him then, it will be time to get someone in here that can do the job. I expect a season similar to the overall 2004 season but with more efficiency.

I expect AJ to have a good season like 2004 also. I expect D-rob and the defense to be improved..

I also am willing to give the whole team a clean slate just like the coaching staff is doing.
 
I'm not gonna do your homework for you. These are true hard facts that many REAL fans have discussed. Apparently you were too busy coming up with funny quips about boots to take notice. And these facts were not just discussed on this board, but on sports radio and in person at the games. If you don't believe me, look it up for yourself.

You can send me a personal message with an apology. No need in draggin your ego through the mud in public. :ok:

Cheers,

Scott
 
Grid said:
how does Carr rank among QBs on expansion teams with terrible offensive lines and extremely defensive minded coaches that prefer to use a running offense, but refuse to invest in the proper personell to do so?

in a few hundred more years.. we may have enough information that we can compare a player against other players that were in similar situations in the past.. but probably not. Carr's situation is different.. and because of that..you cannot compare him to other QBs who have been in situations that are hardly comparable to his.

Instead of focusing on what you can deduce through statistical evidence.. you should be focusing on what you have seen with your own eyes.

But you wont.. and people will still look at Carr and go "omg his stats are worse than <insert bad QB from 10 years ago>".

Whatever.. Carr will either solidify his position as our starting QB over the next couple seasons..or he will be replaced.. no amount of whining and worrying on our part is gonna change that.. and im not going to sit here and dog on him, trying to get some idea of the magnitude of his suckyness.
Click to expand...


The Problem, is that Carr's stats are generally better than most, and it's when you watch him, with your own eyes, you get the feeling that he is way behind the curve.
 
texflex513 said:
losing seasons are not placed on a QB's shoulders alone and carr has an average of 73.7 QB rating in his 4 seasons The 1st 2 yrs were bad the last 2 were decent. i say thats pretty good for a guy who has had to go thru what he has with no blocking Brady/Favre/Manning any of those guys would have had just as many problems. Give the guy a chance with a O line who has worked together and has chemistry instead of a patch work line of guys who didnt know where they'll line up every week:twocents:
Click to expand...

Brady took 41 sacks his first year as a starter, and won a SuperBowl.

We have the worst offensive line in the league, and people believe that because of the number of sacks we have given up. But how many of those sacks were Carr's fault??
 
texan279 said:
Thanks for putting some sanity into the whole Carr thing. I don't think we can use the last 4 seasons to judge Carr or anyone else for that matter on the team for numerous reasons.
Click to expand...


Yeah, you just wait to see what DD can do on a Good team.
 
johnny_tlmn said:
Look people DAVID CARR will come through I'm serious about this I mean he's mobile and he can throw the ball accurately ( while avoiding a sack). But that is another issue.

The main thing is the coaching staff if they can bring folks in here that wanna win (which they have) I'm telling you with Carr in there he'll prevail and prove all ya'll basher's wrong. I tell you what, if he don't I'll exclude my self from this board and thats my word.

All he needs is a decent line and that will be it, the D is fine for this year (I have doubts for the secondary) as for the O-line ya'll will see an remakable improvement, I really believe we will make it to the playoffs.:twocents:
Click to expand...

If he starts to play like an NFL QB, how does that prove us wrong?? I'm saying in last year, he didn't look like a 4 year vet....... nothing he can do in '06 can prove that wrong.

I did say we'll be looking for a franchise QB after the '07 season......... but I don't mind being wrong about that.
 
thunderkyss said:
If he starts to play like an NFL QB, how does that prove us wrong?? I'm saying in last year, he didn't look like a 4 year vet....... nothing he can do in '06 can prove that wrong.
Click to expand...



I will also concede that Carr didn't look like a 4 year vet...But I will also concede that D.D. was the only one who even looked like a pro out there last year as well...
 
TheCD said:
I will also concede that Carr didn't look like a 4 year vet...But I will also concede that D.D. was the only one who even looked like a pro out there last year as well...
Click to expand...

Frankly I am amazed that as much punishment David Carr has taken from being sacked 200+ times, he really hasn't suffered a really serious injury....

I remember back in the 70's when Dan Pastorini had punctured lungs from broken ribs etc. It was a miracle he played.
 
Koolaid Time said:
Frankly I am amazed that as much punishment David Carr has taken from being sacked 200+ times, he really hasn't suffered a really serious injury....

I remember back in the 70's when Dan Pastorini had punctured lungs from broken ribs etc. It was a miracle he played.
Click to expand...

One of TwinSister's knocks on Carr is that no other player has been a consistent starter with stats as bad as Carr's... part of that may be that no other player has been able to withstand this much of a pounding and still play. One of the things the talking heads at ESPN always bring up is what a tough bastard he is.
 
Sco-tai said:
I'm not gonna do your homework for you. These are true hard facts that many REAL fans have discussed. Apparently you were too busy coming up with funny quips about boots to take notice. And these facts were not just discussed on this board, but on sports radio and in person at the games. If you don't believe me, look it up for yourself.

You can send me a personal message with an apology. No need in draggin your ego through the mud in public. :ok:

Cheers,

Scott
Click to expand...

These are not facts that you've posted-every other poster on this board accepts the responsibility for providing the appropriate 'back-up' to their statements-choosing not to only reduces your credibility. Talk in 'circles and use your lil' quips all you want, but they don't make your assertions/statements true...
 
The Pencil Neck said:
One of TwinSister's knocks on Carr is that no other player has been a consistent starter with stats as bad as Carr's... part of that may be that no other player has been able to withstand this much of a pounding and still play. One of the things the talking heads at ESPN always bring up is what a tough bastard he is.
Click to expand...

tough doesn't equal wins....it just equals tough. I'd rather have a good qb that gets injured occasionally rather then a bad one who doesn't.
 
swtbound07 said:
tough doesn't equal wins....it just equals tough. I'd rather have a good qb that gets injured occasionally rather then a bad one who doesn't.
Click to expand...

Sure. But that's assuming that the quarterback is winning or losing games.

Obviously, you and the other Carr bashers think that Carr is losing games. Personally, I don't think that's the case. Last year, I think the team as a whole lost those games because of bad coaching and overall poor play. The whole team didn't look prepared. So I think it's wrong to put those losses at entirely at Carr's feet. He did have a bad year, just like everyone else, but blaming him for the whole team's poor play is another case of giving too much credit to the QB.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Sure. But that's assuming that the quarterback is winning or losing games.

Obviously, you and the other Carr bashers think that Carr is losing games. Personally, I don't think that's the case. Last year, I think the team as a whole lost those games because of bad coaching and overall poor play. The whole team didn't look prepared. So I think it's wrong to put those losses at entirely at Carr's feet. He did have a bad year, just like everyone else, but blaming him for the whole team's poor play is another case of giving too much credit to the QB.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% with your post, but it's like :brickwall trying to convince swt.:shoot:
 
So basically we fired Dom Capers and let Casserly escape for not reason, all we had to do with this team was get a QB in free agency or draft Young, Leinart or Culter and our team would have been great this season.

Anyone see anything wrong with this?

What did Steve Young do his 1st 6 years?
 
swtbound07 said:
tough doesn't equal wins....it just equals tough. I'd rather have a good qb that gets injured occasionally rather then a bad one who doesn't.
Click to expand...

exactly...and I always hear how tough DC is for taking all of those sacks...Well honestly I cant remember too many times where he's been blasted, or twisted to the point where I thought to myself.."I hope he's o.k"....I mean of all the sacks that he's taken how many have been "good shots" ??
 
David Carr and the Texans produced arguably the worst passing offense I have seen in a four year stretch.

I hope that it will get better. I cannot say at this point that I trust that it will.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Sure. But that's assuming that the quarterback is winning or losing games.

Obviously, you and the other Carr bashers think that Carr is losing games. Personally, I don't think that's the case. Last year, I think the team as a whole lost those games because of bad coaching and overall poor play. The whole team didn't look prepared. So I think it's wrong to put those losses at entirely at Carr's feet. He did have a bad year, just like everyone else, but blaming him for the whole team's poor play is another case of giving too much credit to the QB.
Click to expand...

He's had a bad CAREER. Year would be overly generous.
 
and you guys are still rehashing the same garbage. In six months we could all be very happy, or at least very optimistic people. But NOOOOOOO!

Can't you at least say you HOPE you're wrong about Carr? Someone in the first few posts said something along the lines of Carr fans behaving as his apologists and using the same defending story (o-line, system, coaches). Well, read your own. I think Tim Couch is tired of hearing David Carr's name.

This reminds me of the first time I went to SA and was waiting in line at the Alamo. Some nutjob was in the park talking about how we are all condemned to eternal damnation...blah, blah, blah. Then he preaches about the government and it ends with we are all condemned to eternal damnation. Then he starts talking about family life and it ends with we are all condemned to eternal damnation. So my girlfriend says "I think he really wants everyone to go to hell!"

Does anyone get my point, or are we all condemned to eternal damnation?
 
rafterticket said:
and you guys are still rehashing the same garbage. In six months we could all be very happy, or at least very optimistic people. But NOOOOOOO!

Can't you at least say you HOPE you're wrong about Carr? Someone in the first few posts said something along the lines of Carr fans behaving as his apologists and using the same defending story (o-line, system, coaches). Well, read your own. I think Tim Couch is tired of hearing David Carr's name.

This reminds me of the first time I went to SA and was waiting in line at the Alamo. Some nutjob was in the park talking about how we are all condemned to eternal damnation...blah, blah, blah. Then he preaches about the government and it ends with we are all condemned to eternal damnation. Then he starts talking about family life and it ends with we are all condemned to eternal damnation. So my girlfriend says "I think he really wants everyone to go to hell!"

Does anyone get my point, or are we all condemned to eternal damnation?
Click to expand...


I've said repeatedly I hope Im wrong about Carr..but I don't think I am. I want Texans W's first and foremost...I would take a win over being right 1000000 times out of 1000000. However...there is NOTHING ELSE TO TALK ABOUT.
 
swtbound07 said:
He's had a bad CAREER. Year would be overly generous.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with that. 2 years ago, he had a good year. A year to build on. Last year was a step backwards.

His first 4 years have been better than the first 4 years of some HOF quarterbacks and tons better than the first 4 years of many SB quarterbacks. He's got the arm, he can make the throws. Let's put him in a situation where he can be successful before giving up on him.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I don't agree with that. 2 years ago, he had a good year. A year to build on. Last year was a step backwards.

His first 4 years have been better than the first 4 years of some HOF quarterbacks and tons better than the first 4 years of many SB quarterbacks. He's got the arm, he can make the throws. Let's put him in a situation where he can be successful before giving up on him.
Click to expand...

one good year? hardly.
He COULD have been successfull in this situation, he wasn't. The only thing David Carr has is a lot of L's
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top